• Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Mary & Eve!

Eve was of the First creation: carnal
Mary of the New creation: spiritual

Eve the cos of Sin and curse disobeyed God! Gen 3:12
Mary cos of salvation, Lk 1:30 & consented to our salvation Lk 1:38 obeyed God & found our salvation Lk 1:30

Eve mourned:
Mary rejoiced: Lk 1:46

Eve gave birth to the all sinners: mother of all the living. Gen 3:20
Mary to the savior of all men: mother of all living in Christ. Jn 19:26-27 rev 12:17

Mary the mother of God! Lk 1:43

Eve brought punishment: gen 3:16
Mary salvation: Lk 1:30 & 38 Lk 2:30

Eve source of sin: gen 3:16
Mary source of grace: Lk 1:30 & 38

Eve brought death: gen 3:19
Mary life: Jn 1:16-17 & Jn 10:10

Eve only wounds & suffering: gen 3:19
Mary healing:

Eve infidelity: gen 3:6
Mary faithfulness: Lk 1:45

Eve offended the Lord: gen 3:6-7
Mary’s soul (being) doth magnify the Lord: Lk 1:46

Eve cursed: gen 3:17-19
Mary blessed: Lk 1:28

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women!
Lk 1:28



Sirach 24
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition

24 I am the mother of fair love, and of fear, and of knowledge, and of holy hope.
25 In me is all grace of the way and of the truth, in me is all hope of life and of virtue.
26 Come over to me, all ye that desire me, and be filled with my fruits.
27 For my spirit is sweet above honey, and my inheritance above honey and the honeycomb.
28 My memory is unto everlasting generations.
(I know this scripture is deleted by the tradition of men in the KJV)


The Dove, & rainbow signs of peace are types of Mary mother of our salvation who obtained peace for all men!

Song of Solomon 1:2
Smelling sweet of the best ointments. Thy name is as oil poured out: therefore young maidens have loved thee.
Oil heals and fuels the flame, and is the fruit of the olive (peace) so the name of Mary is our peace, and healing, and fire of divine love!

Proverbs 8:35
He that shall find me, shall find life, and shall have salvation from the Lord:
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Mary is the air we as Christian’s breathe!

as breathing is a sign of life’ do devotion to Mary most holy is a sign of spiritual life!

Queen Esther type of Mary!

Queen Esther fair: est 2:7
Mary all fair: gen 3:15 Song of Solomon 4:12 Lk 1:28 rev 12:1

And the king loved Esther above all the women, and she obtained grace and favour in his sight more than all the virgins; est 2:17
And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail Mary, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
Lk 1:28 also Lk 1:30 1:42 1:45 1:48
Mary obtained grace and favor: Lk 1:28
Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Esther merits the graces of the king for the people. Est
Mary merits the graces we need but don’t deserve. Lk 1:30
Mother is the mother of our savior and our salvation! Lk 2:30 matt 1:21

They prayed to Esther to intercede for them before the king. As Mary intercedes for Christians before God.

Queen Esther found favor with the king: est 2:17
Mary found favor with God: Lk 1:30

Queen Esther saves her people interceding with the king: est 8:17
Mary provides the savior of the world!
Lk 2:10-11

Queen Esther receives half the kingdom!
Mary receives half the kingdom, Christ retains the kingdom of justice as just judge and Mary is the queen of grace & mercy! Hence the throne of grace is Mary’s throne! Heb 4:16
Depicted in genesis as the greater light that rules the day (those living in God’s will) and the lesser light that governs the night (those living in sin) Mary the mother of mercy and refuge of sinners!
Notice the sun is the source of all good and moon only reflects this goodness!
She directs all to Her divine son! Jn 2:5
 

Ferris Bueller

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
9,979
4,552
113
Middle South
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Mary is the air we as Christian’s breathe!

as breathing is a sign of life’ do devotion to Mary most holy is a sign of spiritual life!

Queen Esther type of Mary!

Queen Esther fair: est 2:7
Mary all fair: gen 3:15 Song of Solomon 4:12 Lk 1:28 rev 12:1

And the king loved Esther above all the women, and she obtained grace and favour in his sight more than all the virgins; est 2:17
And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail Mary, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
Lk 1:28 also Lk 1:30 1:42 1:45 1:48
Mary obtained grace and favor: Lk 1:28
Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Esther merits the graces of the king for the people. Est
Mary merits the graces we need but don’t deserve. Lk 1:30
Mother is the mother of our savior and our salvation! Lk 2:30 matt 1:21

They prayed to Esther to intercede for them before the king. As Mary intercedes for Christians before God.

Queen Esther found favor with the king: est 2:17
Mary found favor with God: Lk 1:30

Queen Esther saves her people interceding with the king: est 8:17
Mary provides the savior of the world!
Lk 2:10-11

Queen Esther receives half the kingdom!
Mary receives half the kingdom, Christ retains the kingdom of justice as just judge and Mary is the queen of grace & mercy! Hence the throne of grace is Mary’s throne! Heb 4:16
Depicted in genesis as the greater light that rules the day (those living in God’s will) and the lesser light that governs the night (those living in sin) Mary the mother of mercy and refuge of sinners!
Notice the sun is the source of all good and moon only reflects this goodness!
She directs all to Her divine son! Jn 2:5
Sickening.
It's sickening to see you divert attention and worship away from the Father and the Son and onto a mere human being. I'm glad you are here to wake us Protestants up to how truly corrupt the Catholic church's teachings are. Because most of us just kind of considered you harmless and basically Christian, just a little misguided, but after learning so much about what you Catholics believe we can see how deeply pagan Catholic beliefs really are.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Michiah-Imla

Dropship

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2022
2,213
1,514
113
76
Plymouth UK
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Hey Dropship,
..I am glad that we can agree that the Catholic Church set the norm.
Who sets the "right norm"? You and your non-denominational friends?..

The Catholic church set what was the "norm" in their eyes, just as other creeds set what they think is the "norm" in their eyes, but like I said, that doesn't mean they're the right norms..:)
By contrast, non-demoms such as me follow Jesus, (not any churches or creeds) because we believe he is the right norm, not the Pope or anybody else, or are we wrong?..:)
Jesus said:-"You have one teacher, me" (Matthew 23:10)
"And the common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12:37)
"There is one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ" (1 Timothy 2:5)
"Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith" (Hebrews 12:2)
"There is no other name under heaven that can save us" (Acts of the Apostles 4:12)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ferris Bueller

Dropship

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2022
2,213
1,514
113
76
Plymouth UK
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Hebrews 13:17-
"Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit [to them]: for they watch in behalf of your souls, as they that shall give account; that they may do this with joy, and not with grief: for this [were] unprofitable for you."

That certainly applies to all christian churches which have sensible intelligent leaders, but sadly that's not always the case..:)
Paul had to straighten them out-
"I already gave you a warning when I was with you the second time. I now repeat it while absent: On my return I won't spare those who sinned earlier or any of the others" (2 Corinthians 13:2)
 

ScottA

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2011
11,761
5,607
113
www.CheeseburgersWithGod.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hey Scott,

The sandal thing is a silly analogy and doesn't work for this discussion but I get the gist of what you are trying to say.

In regard to your "Levitical Priests" analogy: Jesus changed the old into new! He was the catalyst or the reason for the change from the normal teaching of the Levitical Priests to the new teaching. His teachings were the new norm. His teachings were, for a lack of better words, were God approved teachings. You can't be a heretic if you are teaching what God approved.

Historically we KNOW that the teachings or doctrines of The Church were the norm for all of Christianity. For the longest time in Christianity anyone who disagreed with those teachings were charged with heresy. Then some men came along that began to protest the teachings of The Church, the printing press was invented, society in general began to learn how to read on their own and more people began to protest because they all thought they knew better than The Church. That is why you are called "Protest"ants. Because you are protesting what historically has been taught by The Church since the beginning. When your forefathers began to protest the normal teaching of The Church, the norm changed. And then those men had men that split off from them that protested their teachings and then those men had men that split off from them and protested their teachings etc etc until Christianity has such a mess now that people like you sit all alone in your house reading Scripture telling everyone else they are wrong; Protesting everyone's teaching.

So your attempted analogy is not at all how things actually work. ;);)
If you do not learn from history (which I began and you have now finished) you are destined to repeat it.

It's not an analogy.
 

Michiah-Imla

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2020
6,167
3,287
113
Northeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Mary is the temple of God

All Christians are the temple of God:

“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?” (1 Corinthians 3:16)

Why do you elevate Mary and the Roman Catholic Church high above the Bible itself?

The Bible keeps us from error.

If erroneous church teachings diminishes the Bible that should be a red flag for you.
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No, leave the 'church' part out of it. Christ, and Christ alone, offered the sacrifice of himself on the altar in heaven.

then ignore Christ who commanded his priests to do so!

And the office of priest is to offer sacrifice! Christ offered it beginning at the last supper and in his body and blood on the cross!

now his priest offer his once for all sacrifice in an unbloody manner, pure offering or a clean oblation mal 1:11

without the offering of the sacrifice there is no real presence of Christ in holy communion the fruit of the sacrifice that we require for love and grace!
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. " Matthew 28:18

and the next word please?

GO!

do he appointed Peter and the apostles as prime minister and ministers of his kingdom and a triple office of teaching, sanctifying and governing holy church!

matt 16:18 18:18 Matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20 Jn 21:17
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Here's what 'low' priests do:

"15 ...because of the grace God has given me 16to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit." Romans 15:15-16:
They offer sacrifices, but not blood sacrifices. That would violate the very fact that there is no need for another blood sacrifice.

Christians are the royal
Priesthood Christ is high priest according to the order of melchisedec so there must be low priests according to order of melchisedec who offer the sacrifice of Christ!
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That's not the work of redemption. That was finished one-time for all time 2000 years ago. The work of spreading the knowledge of the redemption Jesus finished in his own blood is what continues in the world.

souls need be sanctified in the grace of the sacraments!
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I found this piece while googling "Heretic" -

What do heretics believe?

Most heretics – the ones we can identify, that is – tended to believe a very simple form of Christianity, based on literal readings of the New Testament. They placed high value on chastity, and were opposed to any ostentatious wealth and to the wealth and power structure of the church.

So It appears to me that heretics are the Christians who were basically simple believers, like me :) and are possibly not Catholic.

christ founded the church on Peter and the apostles and established all authority in them!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 acts 1:8 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Uh, no. You do not have the finished work of redemption applied to you through the sacraments. That happens entirely by faith in the blood of redemption.


You receive the Holy Spirit when you believe.

"13 ...having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit" Ephesians 1:13

sealed in baptism
Faith and baptism! Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!



Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 2:1&5 brought to life in baptism
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 and not the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!






“Faith alone”

Questions

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is not found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2












Christian ritual of baptism:
Immersion, sprinkling, pour pure water over the forehead three time with the words, I baptize thee in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the Holy Spirit! Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 Matt 28:19 Acts 2:38-39 Acts 8:36-38 Acts 22:16
1 Pet 3:21

Proper intention: to make a new creature in Christ, to put on Christ, initiation into the new covenant of grace
Proper Matter: pure water
Proper Form: the words: father, son, and Holy Spirit


Justified by faith includes baptism Mk 16:16 acts 2:38-39 acts 8:36-38 1 pet 3:20-21

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.





Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration!


baptismal regeneration!
A new creation in Christ! 2 cor 5:17
Jn 1 JTB prepared the way by baptism!
Jn 2 the waters of purification are OT prefigurement of baptism!
Jn 3:5 born again means baptism
Jn 3:22 they immediately went to the river! Not to preach “accept Christ as personal lord and savior”
But to BAPTIZE!!!
 

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,438
1,696
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If you do not learn from history (which I began and you have now finished) you are destined to repeat it.

It's not an analogy.
When we read the writings of the Apostolic Fathers, who were the forefathers of The Church that walked and talked with the Apostles, we see that historically Catholic teaching in line with "history"!

Therefore Scott the fact is that you and your ilk deny Christian "history" since you deny the historical teachings of The Church. That decline, or denying of history, started about 500 years ago during your revolution. You are still revolting.

Fast forward 500 years and we now see that you and your ilk are now denying the historical teachings of your own Protestant forefathers. Denying their teachings so much that your Protestant brothers say that gay marriage and abortion is approved by God. Your Protestant brethren are repeating history; Sodam and Gamorrah specifically....The Catholic Church is not.
 

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,438
1,696
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That certainly applies to all christian churches which have sensible intelligent leaders, but sadly that's not always the case..:)
Paul had to straighten them out-
"I already gave you a warning when I was with you the second time. I now repeat it while absent: On my return I won't spare those who sinned earlier or any of the others" (2 Corinthians 13:2)
Hey Dropship,

Right...I can agree with that. Not all churches have sensible intelligent leaders. If a church (or denomination) doesn't have a "sensible intelligent leader(s)" then we shouldn't obey them. Presumably that leader or leaders have become a heretics and are teaching opposite of what Scripture says. So who then decides that we shouldn't obey that leader? A church board? A majority of votes from the congregation?

Curious Mary

PS...And you do know that Paul's letter to the church in Corinth was addressing a specific problem in that one church? It isn't addressed to The Church.
 

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,438
1,696
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Catholic church set what was the "norm" in their eyes, just as other creeds set what they think is the "norm" in their eyes, but like I said, that doesn't mean they're the right norms..:)
By contrast, non-demoms such as me follow Jesus, (not any churches or creeds) because we believe he is the right norm, not the Pope or anybody else, or are we wrong?..:)
Jesus said:-"You have one teacher, me" (Matthew 23:10)
"And the common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12:37)
"There is one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ" (1 Timothy 2:5)
"Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith" (Hebrews 12:2)
"There is no other name under heaven that can save us" (Acts of the Apostles 4:12)
Hey dropship,

So the men of the Catholic Church got it wrong and your non-denom men got it right? Is that what you are saying?

If 100 non-denoms were to together in a room to discuss who is right and who is wrong about Scripture, would you all agree with each other?

Also, you do know the history of The Apostles Creed? Why it came to be?

Also, cutting a pasting a 5 verses from Scripture and using them out of context does not support your theory.