Trinity Belief and Born Again?

[Triumph1300]

I am among those who believe Jesus is God in flesh, so if one accepts God, as Jews do, do they also accept Jesus, even if they don't know it?

There are many people believing in God.
There's no way to the Father without confessing Jesus.

even if they don't know it

Nope.

 

[theefaith]

the Teachings of the Bible

There is NO verse in the entire Bible that even suggests, that God the Father eternally "begets" Jesus Christ! This heresy was pushed by the heretic Origen, and was rather foolishly adopted into the eary "creeds", in the name of a false "peace"!

Why does it need be in scripture?

The church existed and exercised authority from Christ before the New Testament was written, and the church wrote it!

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Hebrews 1:5
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Why does it need be in scripture?

The church existed and exercised authority from Christ before the New Testament was written, and the church wrote it!

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Hebrews 1:5
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

The Holy Bible is THE Word of God and Infallible and the Highest Authority on all matters

 

[theefaith]

See the philosophical definitions provided by trinitarianism.

A Brief Definition of the Trinity

Were you taught by the RCC that the Trinity is three beings?

three persons one divine nature!

The Unity and Trinity of God
Lesson 3 from the Baltimore Cathechism

24. Is there only one God?
Yes, there is only one God.

I am the Lord, and there is none else: there is no God besides me. (Isaiah 45:5)

25. How many Persons are there in God?
In God there are three Divine Persons – the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

Going, therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. (Matthew 28:19)

26. Is the Father God?
The Father is God and the first Person of the Blessed Trinity.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. (I Corinthians 1:3)

27. Is the Son God?
The Son is God and the second Person of the Blessed Trinity.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

28. Is the Holy Ghost God?
The Holy Ghost is God and the third Person of the Blessed Trinity.

Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? (I Corinthians 3:16)

29. What do we mean by the Blessed Trinity?
By the Blessed Trinity we mean, one and the same God in three Divine Persons.

Going, therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. (Matthew 28:19)

30. Are the three Divine Persons really distinct from one another?
The three Divine Persons are really distinct from one another.

And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape, as a dove, upon him. And a voice came from heaven: "Thou art my beloved Son. In thee I am well pleased." (Luke 3:22)

31. Are the three Divine Persons perfectly equal to one another?
The three Divine Persons are perfectly equal to one another, because all are one and the same God.

I and the Father are one. (John 10:30)

32. How are the three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, one and the same God?
The three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, are one and the same God because all have one and the same Divine nature.

33. Can we fully understand how the three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, are one and the same God?
We cannot fully understand how the three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, are one and the same God because this is a supernatural mystery.

34. What is a supernatural mystery?
A supernatural mystery is a truth which we cannot fully understand, but which we firmly believe because we have God's word for it.

 

[theefaith]

We in the modern West think of a mystery as something that can't be understood. That's not how the 1st Near Eastern people understood it. Here's Strong's definition of "mystery"

G3466 μυστήριον musterion (mï-stee'-riy-on) n.
a secret or “mystery.”
{through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites}
[from a derivative of muo “to shut the mouth”]
​

Notice the first definition is "a secret." A secret can be perfectly understood once revealed.

Here's Abbott-Smith's Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament:

μυστήρισν, -ου, τό
(< μυέω),
[in LXX: Da LXX TH Dan 2:18 ff. (H7328), Tob 12:7; Tob 12:11, Jdt 2:2, Wis 2:22; Wis 6:22; Wis 14:15; Wis 14:23, Sir 3:18; Sir 22:22; Sir 27:16-17; Sir 27:21, 2Ma 13:21 *;]
1. that which is known to the μύστης (initiated), a mystery or secret doctrine, mostly in pl., τὰ μ. (Æsch., Hdt., al.).
2. In later writers (Menand., Incert., 168), that which may not be revealed (not, however, as in the modern sense, intrinsically difficult to understand), a secret or mystery of any kind (To, Jth, 2Mac, ll, c.).
3. In NT, of the counsels of God (cf. Th.: Job 15:8, Psa 25:14 for H5475), once hidden but now revealed in the Gospel or some fact thereof;​

Again, we can see that God reveals secrets to believers (particularly #3).

One more from Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature

Mystery
(μυστήριον), a term employed in the Bible (N.T.), as well as in some of the pagan religions, to denote a revealed secret.​

The secret is revealed once again. It be hard to find a definition that indicates the ancient Near East would have understood "musterion" any other way.

The Athenasian Creed is usually accepted as a modern Western style mystery, i.e. something that can never be understood. It states in part;

"So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God."
​

Well, such a statement defies logic and requires the complete abandonment of the normal meaning of words and grammar. But when that happens the gloves come off, and anybody can say anything whether it makes sense of not. That's how we get a son being his own father. Normally we all understand that makes no sense whatsoever. But if we just call it a "mystery" it suddenly becomes an acceptable doctrine.

I don't mean to besmirch any born again child of God regardless of what the believe about Jesus and God. If they confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead (Rom 10:9-10), they are my brother and I have the deepest love and respect for them. I just think that if they believe the Athenasian Creed they put themselves into a position where the scriptures will be largely a closed book. Imagine reading Moby Dick and mixing up the whale with Captain Ahab. It wouldn't make sense and just saying it's a mystery doesn't help at all in getting the message.

secret no

a mystery is something our finite intellects can’t comprehend or fully comprehend!

The Unity and Trinity of God
Lesson 3 from the Baltimore Cathechism

24. Is there only one God?
Yes, there is only one God.

I am the Lord, and there is none else: there is no God besides me. (Isaiah 45:5)

25. How many Persons are there in God?
In God there are three Divine Persons – the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

Going, therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. (Matthew 28:19)

26. Is the Father God?
The Father is God and the first Person of the Blessed Trinity.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. (I Corinthians 1:3)

27. Is the Son God?
The Son is God and the second Person of the Blessed Trinity.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

28. Is the Holy Ghost God?
The Holy Ghost is God and the third Person of the Blessed Trinity.

Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? (I Corinthians 3:16)

29. What do we mean by the Blessed Trinity?
By the Blessed Trinity we mean, one and the same God in three Divine Persons.

Going, therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. (Matthew 28:19)

30. Are the three Divine Persons really distinct from one another?
The three Divine Persons are really distinct from one another.

And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape, as a dove, upon him. And a voice came from heaven: "Thou art my beloved Son. In thee I am well pleased." (Luke 3:22)

31. Are the three Divine Persons perfectly equal to one another?
The three Divine Persons are perfectly equal to one another, because all are one and the same God.

I and the Father are one. (John 10:30)

32. How are the three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, one and the same God?
The three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, are one and the same God because all have one and the same Divine nature.

33. Can we fully understand how the three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, are one and the same God?
We cannot fully understand how the three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, are one and the same God because this is a supernatural mystery.

34. What is a supernatural mystery?
A supernatural mystery is a truth which we cannot fully understand, but which we firmly believe because we have God's word for it.

 

[JunChosen]

[QUOTE="Triumph1300, post: 1344289, member: 7734"]Well... before I knew Christ I was spiritual dead.

I started to look and found Him, and guess what?
The Bible says when you seek Him, you will find Him. Jeremiah 29:13

Good luck with you'r legalism and predestination.[/QUOTE]

Many people have different interpretations of Scripture or, rather, don't want to believe what they read.. For instance, Jeremiah 29:13 is really a principle, and must be read in light of Romans 3 which I've already stipulated and Romans 8:30 which reads:
"Moreover whom he did PREDESTINATE them he also CALLED: and whom he called, them he also JUSTIFIED: and whom he justified, them he also Glorified."
So you see, the word "predestined," "predestinate," "predestination is a biblical concept! People tends to throw out words left and right without really understanding what they're saying.
Please let me know what part of the Scripture above you do not understand, and I'll gladly expound on it.
Another thing, I'm willing to wager that you do not understand the meaning of the word "foreknow" in Romans 8:29.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Bob Estey]

Three!

God (father) have mercy on me a poor sinner!

precious blood of Jesus, save us!

come Holy ghost creator blessed and in our hearts take up Thy rest!

I pray to one person, my Father in heaven.

 

[Bob Estey]

he said where not who!
Up there is a where! Not a who!

So where is "up there"?

 

[Bob Estey]

Oh, I misunderstood you completely! No, we are not superior. In fact, we are now wandering in the desert and, largely, making their same exact mistakes but expecting a different and better result.

I suspect some do better than others. Hopefully we are among the better ones.

 

[Matthias]

secret no

a mystery is something our finite intellects can’t comprehend or fully comprehend!

The Unity and Trinity of God
Lesson 3 from the Baltimore Cathechism

24. Is there only one God?
Yes, there is only one God.

I am the Lord, and there is none else: there is no God besides me. (Isaiah 45:5)

25. How many Persons are there in God?
In God there are three Divine Persons – the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

Going, therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. (Matthew 28:19)

26. Is the Father God?
The Father is God and the first Person of the Blessed Trinity.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. (I Corinthians 1:3)

27. Is the Son God?
The Son is God and the second Person of the Blessed Trinity.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

28. Is the Holy Ghost God?
The Holy Ghost is God and the third Person of the Blessed Trinity.

Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? (I Corinthians 3:16)

29. What do we mean by the Blessed Trinity?
By the Blessed Trinity we mean, one and the same God in three Divine Persons.

Going, therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. (Matthew 28:19)

30. Are the three Divine Persons really distinct from one another?
The three Divine Persons are really distinct from one another.

And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape, as a dove, upon him. And a voice came from heaven: "Thou art my beloved Son. In thee I am well pleased." (Luke 3:22)

31. Are the three Divine Persons perfectly equal to one another?
The three Divine Persons are perfectly equal to one another, because all are one and the same God.

I and the Father are one. (John 10:30)

32. How are the three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, one and the same God?
The three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, are one and the same God because all have one and the same Divine nature.

33. Can we fully understand how the three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, are one and the same God?
We cannot fully understand how the three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, are one and the same God because this is a supernatural mystery.

34. What is a supernatural mystery?
A supernatural mystery is a truth which we cannot fully understand, but which we firmly believe because we have God's word for it.

“God is one being …”

(Catholicism Explained, “God is One Being, Three Persons”)

God Is One Being, Three Persons

This Catholic author asserts that God is one being. You assert that God is three beings.

Catholicism doesn’t assert that God is both one being and three beings. Right?

If you’re correct, where is this Catholic writer going wrong?

 

[Triumph1300]

JunChosen: Our Approach to the Doctrine of Predestination

Predestination, in Christianity, the doctrine that God has eternally chosen those whom he intends to save.

I believe it is God's will that all be saved.
People have a free choice, some will reject Christ.

 

[theefaith]

The Holy Bible is THE Word of God and Infallible and the Highest Authority on all matters

highest? Higher than Jesus Christ???

 

[Rich R]

secret no

a mystery is something our finite intellects can’t comprehend or fully comprehend!

The Unity and Trinity of God
Lesson 3 from the Baltimore Cathechism

24. Is there only one God?
Yes, there is only one God.

I am the Lord, and there is none else: there is no God besides me. (Isaiah 45:5)

25. How many Persons are there in God?
In God there are three Divine Persons – the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

Going, therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. (Matthew 28:19)

26. Is the Father God?
The Father is God and the first Person of the Blessed Trinity.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. (I Corinthians 1:3)

27. Is the Son God?
The Son is God and the second Person of the Blessed Trinity.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

28. Is the Holy Ghost God?
The Holy Ghost is God and the third Person of the Blessed Trinity.

Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? (I Corinthians 3:16)

29. What do we mean by the Blessed Trinity?
By the Blessed Trinity we mean, one and the same God in three Divine Persons.

Going, therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. (Matthew 28:19)

30. Are the three Divine Persons really distinct from one another?
The three Divine Persons are really distinct from one another.

And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape, as a dove, upon him. And a voice came from heaven: "Thou art my beloved Son. In thee I am well pleased." (Luke 3:22)

31. Are the three Divine Persons perfectly equal to one another?
The three Divine Persons are perfectly equal to one another, because all are one and the same God.

I and the Father are one. (John 10:30)

32. How are the three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, one and the same God?
The three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, are one and the same God because all have one and the same Divine nature.

33. Can we fully understand how the three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, are one and the same God?
We cannot fully understand how the three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, are one and the same God because this is a supernatural mystery.

34. What is a supernatural mystery?
A supernatural mystery is a truth which we cannot fully understand, but which we firmly believe because we have God's word for it.

Well, I told you the facts about the word "mystery" in the original texts. I made up absolutely nothing, I merely quoted well known and highly respective sources. It would easy enough to verify if what I said is true or not.

 

[JunChosen]

Predestination, in Christianity, the doctrine that God has eternally chosen those whom he intends to save

I totally agree. Finally something I can agree with. Those whom God has eternally chosen to save, He elected them in eternity past and before the foundation of the world. All true believers are born into this world at different times in history!

I believe it is God's will that all be saved.

YOU ARE IN ERROR! If the above is true, then God CANNOT and WILL NEVER judge anyone to hell. That is what we call "double jeopardy" in this country. You speak with "fork tongue" as the Indian would say!!!

People have a free choice, some will reject Christ.

Again, you have no understanding of Romans 3! People don't seek after God BECAUSE they are sinners, just as we were before conversion.

To God Be The Glory

 

[JunChosen]

There are many people believing in God.
There's no way to the Father without confessing Jesus.

As usual, you are in error! I hope you don't have in mind Romans 10:9, do you? Because this Scripture must be read in light of Jeremiah 17:9 which reads: "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

WOW, from the theology I'm getting from you, seems like Satan is hard at work. But it's a good thing, I know better. Surely, you must have many followers from getting so much "likes,"

To God Be The Glory

 

[ChristisGod]

“God is one being …”

(Catholicism Explained, “God is One Being, Three Persons”)

God Is One Being, Three Persons

This Catholic author asserts that God is one being. You assert that God is three beings.

Catholicism doesn’t assert that God is both one being and three beings. Right?

If you’re correct, where is this Catholic writer going wrong?

No you are equivocating/conflating.

God is One- in nature, essence, substance, being- all synonymous

God is Three in Persons- the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Hence God is Tri- Personal, Tri-Unity, Triune

Much like a husband and wife are not each other but become ONE flesh upon marriage. One does not mean " singular in persons.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Rich R]

I totally agree. Finally something I can agree with. Those whom God has eternally chosen to save, He elected them in eternity past and before the foundation of the world. All true believers are born into this world at different times in history!

Not saying you're wrong, but how does this fit into your doctrine:

1 Tim 2:4,

Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
​

It looks like God would certainly like all to be saved, so why aren't all saved? Or are all saved?

 

[Matthias]

No you are equivocating/conflating.

God is One- in nature, essence, substance, being- all synonymous

God is Three in Persons- the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Hence God is Tri- Personal, Tri-Unity, Triune

Much like a husband and wife are not each other but become ONE flesh upon marriage. One does not mean " singular in persons.

hope this helps !!!

Do you believe the Trinity is three beings? @theefaith does.

I was taught in the Southern Baptist Church that the Trinity is one being, three persons. My wife was taught in the Roman Catholic Church that the Trinity is one being, three persons.

Are you properly equipped in the doctrine of the Trinity to teach someone who believes the Trinity is not one being, three persons?

Your post should be directed to him, not me. It’s your deity, your doctrine, not mine. Do you have the knowledge and the courage to do it?

 

[ChristisGod]

Do you believe the Trinity is three beings? @theefaith does.

I was taught in the Southern Baptist Church that the Trinity is one being, three persons. My wife was taught in the Roman Catholic Church that the Trinity is one being, three persons.

Are you properly equipped in the doctrine of the Trinity to teach someone who believes the Trinity is not one being, three persons?

Your post should be directed to him, not me. It’s your deity, your doctrine, not mine. Do you have the knowledge and the courage to do it?

I was very specific in my post . Maybe reread it .

 

[Rich R]

Do you believe the Trinity is three beings? @theefaith does.

I was taught in the Southern Baptist Church that the Trinity is one being, three persons. My wife was taught in the Roman Catholic Church that the Trinity is one being, three persons.

Are you properly equipped in the doctrine of the Trinity to teach someone who believes the Trinity is not one being, three persons?

Your post should be directed to him, not me. It’s your deity, your doctrine, not mine. Do you have the knowledge and the courage to do it?

If I'm not misunderstanding you, you are saying that God is a "being" and therefore is not "a" person. Assuming I have it right, wouldn't that make God a "thing" made up of three persons?

If He is a real person, then that's what He is, a real person, singular, which is the normal definition of the word. But if He is three persons, then there must be three Gods. The third option would be that God is a thing and not a person at all.