Trinity Belief and Born Again?

[Rich R]

Although English is my second language, and mind you, I will not make an excuse, I do know what oxymoron means!

I never would have guessed that English is your second language! You are better than many native speakers.

Are you going to deliberately ignore the question I posted in post #232???
Perhaps you're not ready?

To God Be The Glory

Here's the reply I gave in #234:

"Now I know that the word Elohim in Gen 1:1 is called a "uni-plural" but that's man's invention and doesn't make it any less of an oxymoron so long as we stick to the accepted meaning of simple words. I trust you noticed the verb in Gen 1:1 is singular. In fact, all the verbs connected with Elohim in Gen 1 are singular. Baal is called an Elohim, despite being one entity. Does that have any bearing on the matter?"
​

I thought that would have covered Deut 6:4. I know the whole "echad" argument meaning a compound unity, but I don't believe that. If it were we would have Abraham being a trinity, since he's called "echad" in Ex 33:24. Do you know of any other usage of "echad" in th scriptures where it supposedly means a compound unity? I don't see any scriptural evidence that the Jews thought of "echad" as a compound unity. I believe the thought of it as plain old "one." I know the whole argument about a "herd" being composed of multiple animals, but, lacking solid evidence anywhere else that God is a trinity, I don't see how this one verse can be blown up in a dubious way to prove the trinity. Besides, making God into something akin to a "herd" means we are making Him a thing, and not a true person.

 

[theefaith]

Well... before I knew Christ I was spiritual dead.

I started to look and found Him, and guess what?
The Bible says when you seek Him, you will find Him. Jeremiah 29:13

Good luck with your legalism, predestination, and your complicated gospel explanations.
Bible says be like a child. It's so simple. Believe what He did at the cross and His resurrection.
According to a lot of you, what Christ did at the cross was not enough.
According to many of you working your way into heaven is the only way to go, and what Christ did was all in vain. Grace went out the door...so sad.
But I guess it needs socalled theologians to mess up the gospel message.

“Faith alone”?

Charity

Deut. 6:5
5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema.

Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

1 cor 13:2 all faith without charity avails nothing.

1 cor 13:12 now abide faith, hope, and charity, and the greatest of these is charity.

If salvation was by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!!!

If we are saved by faith alone then when we first believed we would be saved?

Romans 13:11
…our salvation nearer than when we believed.

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

 

[theefaith]

We are members of Christ in his grace and filled with his spirit!

All our actions are meritorious


1 Corinthians 12:26
And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

1 Peter 4:13
But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

Religion is what man owes to God for having created him in His image and likeness!

To Christ for having redeemed him in His own blood!

to the Holy Spirit for sanctifying him in the sacraments of holy mother church!

it only Christ by His grace (merits of His blood passion and death) that we are enabled and empowered to actually be holy and righteous and all our actions

if we live by the spirit we put to death the deeds of the flesh

my grace is sufficient for you

Phil 4:13 I can do all things in Christ who strengthens me.

Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing!

our participation is required

Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, (his grace and virtues work in us healing our defective nature and enabling us to be righteous and holy accomplishing his holy will!
Ez 36:25-27



Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind (lacking) of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) zealous of good works. (Sanctification)

 

[theefaith]

The Holy Bible is THE Word of God and Infallible and the Highest Authority on all matters

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 acts 1:8 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

 

[theefaith]

I pray to one person, my Father in heaven.

In Jesus name?

 

[theefaith]

“God is one being …”

(Catholicism Explained, “God is One Being, Three Persons”)

God Is One Being, Three Persons

This Catholic author asserts that God is one being. You assert that God is three beings.

Catholicism doesn’t assert that God is both one being and three beings. Right?

If you’re correct, where is this Catholic writer going wrong?

person and being or existence are the same

 

[Matthias]

person and being or existence are the same

Contra the teaching of trinitarianism.

Trinitarians would be quick to correct me if I said what you did.

You’re getting a pass from them.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

person and being or existence are the same

Complete nonsense

 

[Matthias]

Contra the teaching of trinitarianism.

Trinitarians would be quick to correct me if I said what you did.

You’re getting a pass from them.

That last line didn’t age well; nor should it have.

 

[theefaith]

I need to introduce you to @theefaith; then you will know one who does.

Does it matter? If so, is there anything you can (should?) do to help?

I said being and person and entity and existence are the same!

one God (divine nature) three persons (beings)

 

[theefaith]

I have had many dialogues with @theefaith in the past awhile back and he still have the same attitude towards Scripture, unless of course God changes his stony heart to a heart of flesh.

To God Be The Glory

Ez 36:25-27

 

[Rich R]

"theefaith said: ↑
person and being or existence are the same"

Complete nonsense

Why? All we have to do is change the normal meaning of a few simple words! No problem. No need to make sense!

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Why? All we have to do is change the normal meaning of a few simple words! No problem. No need to make sense!

No it is heresy

 

[theefaith]

Complete nonsense

i dont care how you define it

it’s one God (divine nature) three persons

 

[Rich R]

i dont care how you define it

it’s one God (divine nature) three persons

So now God is no longer a person. He has become a thing, i.e. a "nature."

Do you really want to say that? There must be something better. Perhaps it could it be that Yahweh is actually the one true God (john 17:3, 1 Cor 8:6) and Jesus is actually His son (too many verses to quote, but you know he's plainly called the son of God many times)?

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

There is One Godhead (θειότης, Divine Nature), as Romans 1:20 tells us. There are Three distinct Persons in this One θειότης: The Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, Who are coequal, coeternal and coessential. Each GOD.

 

[Rich R]

There is One Godhead (θειότης, Divine Nature), as Romans 1:20 tells us. There are Three distinct Persons in this One θειότης: The Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, Who are coequal, coeternal and coessential. Each GOD.

Neither a nature nor a divine nature is an actual person, so God is till a "thing." Terrible situation!

 

[theefaith]

So now God is no longer a person. He has become a thing, i.e. a "nature."

Do you really want to say that? There must be something better. Perhaps it could it be that Yahweh is actually the one true God (john 17:3, 1 Cor 8:6) and Jesus is actually His son (too many verses to quote, but you know he's plainly called the son of God many times)?

Is the father God? Yes
Is the father a person? Yes

same for Christ and the HS

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Neither a nature nor a divine nature is an actual person, so God is till a "thing." Terrible situation!

You are confusing the "Godhead", with the "Persons", who are not "things". These are two opposites

 

[Rich R]

Is the father God? Yes
Is the father a person? Yes

same for Christ and the HS

Talking to his Father (John 17:1), Jesus said,

John 17:3,

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
​

Jesus said his Father is the only true God and that agrees with what Paul wrote in Corinthians.

1 Cor 8:6,

But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
​

So if Jesus is in fact the one true God, then he has to the Father. So who is the Son? Is Jesus then both the Father and the Son? If so, why isn't he also the 3rd person, the Holy Spirit?

We can still insist Jesus is God, but, not being the Father, we have to conclude he is not the one true God. What kind of God would that make him? So many problems with a son being his own father, with abandoning the normal meaning of simple words, grammar, and concepts. Talk about going down a rabbit hole! Oh my...!