Who is Jesus to a Non-Trinitarian?

[robert derrick]

I am a non trinitarian, i know 100% Jesus is not God. God did not come to earth. The bible is clear, God sent another= The speaker at Prov 8= Gods master worker, the one whom God created all other things through.

If anyone declares who God is not, then he must know who God is, and so he must know God, to declare Him.

Do you know God?

Not what Jesus teaches-John 20:17, Rev 3:12--Nor Paul- 1Cor 15:24-28, Coll 1:3--Nor Peter-1Peter 1:3-- So tell us who is in error? Jesus, Paul and Peter or trinity teachers? they contradict each other. There is no contradiction in Gods truth.

You declare to know the truth.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

So, you know Jesus?

 

[robert derrick]

Who is Jesus to a Non-Trinitarian?

The greatest of heroes to be deified into a god among the Gods, with a pagan cult of his own on earth, like that of Herakles, which also overthrew the pagan cult of old Rome, and was made into a world-wide religion alongside other world religions.

Islamists claim Mohammed is greater than the god 'Jesus', because he died on a cross, which may or may not be true.

But, what does it really matter when unbelievers are comparing one cult religion with another?

 

[robert derrick]

Now, if there are any self-styled 'non-trinitarians', are not unbelieving monotheistic jews and christians, and know Jesus Christ is the true God and eternal life, then they are plainly not part of this 'Jesus' cult, that mocks His name.

I have never really called nor looked at myself as a 'trinitarian', but simply one who worships Jesus as My Lord and my God, because I know He is, because I know Him.

It's not a coincidence, that those who are in that non-trinitarian cult, can't even confess knowing their deified god, and so would rather have a pagan cult, rather than the true God and eternal life.

That is no doubt so that they can keep God at arms length, and not have to live like He did as a man.

It's the same with all them that give lip-service to the name Jesus. They don't mind Him be God, or even a deified god in heaven, so long as they don't have to live like Him as a man on earth: righteously, holily, blamelessly, with a pure heart.

I.e. not sinning like all sinners in their worldly religions on earth.

 

[robert derrick]

Since you already replied as a book, of how one is a heretic, I have one question, in regards to KJV John 14[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Is the Holy Spirit a separate entity of the God head, or is He a combination of only the Father and the Son, of which what had already been in eternity past, before the world was?
Please keep it simple,..... because it really is!

Support scripture:
John 17[4] I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
[5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

There is no 'separate' God from God: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost are each distinctly God.

There are three distinct Persons in the Godhead, not separated in any way, but perfect in eternal unity as the one true God and eternal life.

The only time God was ever separated from God, was when the Son died on the cross to pay the full price from sins, and so His soul was for the one and only time in all eternity, separated from God like all sinners on earth.

That was for the space of three hours on the cross, then He revived to become the Savior and quickening Spirit of all them that believe and obey Him.

 

[Bob Estey]

As a believer in the true oneness of God, thereby denying the trinity, I'm called many rather unsavory names. Perhaps "rank heretic" is most common.

So who is Jesus to a "rank heretic?"

1. In Genesis he is the promised seed of the woman.
2. In Exodus he is the Passover lamb.
3. In Leviticus he is the High Priest.
4. In Numbers he is the star to rise out of Jacob.
5. In Deuteronomy he is the two laws: Love God and love your neighbor.
6. In Joshua he is the captain of the Lord of Hosts.
7. In Judges he is the covenant angel named Wonderful.
8. In Ruth he is the kinsman redeemer.
9. In Samuel he is the root and offspring of David.
10. In Kings he is the greater than the Temple.
11. In Chronicles he is the King's son.
12. In Ezra & Nehemiah he is the rebuilder.
13. In Esther he is the savior of God's people.
14. In Job he is the daysman.
15. In Psalms he is the song.
16. In Proverbs he is the wisdom of God.
17. In Ecclesiastes he is the one among a thousand.
18. In The Song of Solomon he is the bridegroom of the bride.
19. In Isaiah he is Jacob's branch.
20. In Jeremiah he is our righteousness.
21. In Lamentations he is the unbelievers' judgement.
22. In Ezekiel he is the true shepherd.
23. In Daniel he is the stone that became the head of the corner.
24. In Hosea he is the latter rain.
25. In Joel he is God's dwelling in Zion.
26. In Amos he is the raiser of David's tabernacle.
27. In Obadiah he is the deliverer on Mount Zion.
28. In Jonah he is our salvation.
29. In Micah he is the Lord of kings.
30. In Nahum he is the stronghold in the time of trouble.
31. In Habakkuk he is our joy and confidence.
32. In Zephaniah he is our mighty Lord.
33. In Haggai he is the desire of the nations.
34. In Zechariah he is our servant The Branch.
35. In Malachi he is the son of Righteousness.
36. In Matthew he is Jehovah's Messiah.
37. In Mark he is Jehovah's servant.
38. In Luke he is Jehovah's man.
39. In John he is Jehovah's Son.
40. In Acts he is the gift of holy spirit.
41. In Romans he is the believers' justification.
42. In Corinthians he is the believers' sanctification.
43. In Galatians he is the believers' righteousness.
44. In Ephesians he is the believers' heavenly standing.
45. In Philippians he is the believers' self adequacy.
46. In Colossians he is the believers' completeness.
47. In Thessalonians he is the believers' soon glorification.
48. In Timothy he is the faithful men.
49. In Titus he is the fellow-laborer.
50. In Philemon he is the love of a believer.
51. In Hebrews he is the High Priest for sin.
52. In James he is the royal law.
53. In Peter he is the pastor.
54. In John he is as we are.
55. In Jude he is the beloved.
56. In Revelation he is the King of kings and the Lord of lords.

I think this is a much higher view than simply thinking God always somehow managed to obey Himself, and also went so far as to believe Himself that He'd raise Himself from the dead. God is much bigger than that.

God managed to come up with a plan (the actual logos of John 1) so that a man with free will, tempted in all points as us, could believe enough to follow that plan to perfection. God was a genius for coning up with the plan and Jesus was a hero of heroes for carrying out the plan despite the grave consequences he had to experience.

Making Jesus God simply minimizes the greatness of both God and His son. God became little more than a bully who did whatever He wanted to do despite man's free will, That would be a perfect description of all the other Ancient Near East gods, but it's an insult to the greatness of our God, YHWH.

People would define "Trinitarian" differently. I define the Trinity as God being a Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, as my Dad was a father, husband, son, lawyer, Methodist, Rotarian, etc. I doubt that's how you would define it. I'll therefore answer your question: I believe Jesus is God in flesh.

 

[Rich R]

People would define "Trinitarian" differently. I define the Trinity as God being a Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, as my Dad was a father, husband, son, lawyer, Methodist, Rotarian, etc. I doubt that's how you would define it. I'll therefore answer your question: I believe Jesus is God in flesh.

I guess there's a difference between being "a" father and "the father." But that does beg the question of who is God the Son of? If He is "a" son, he has to have a father. Your father is also somebody's son. Wouldn't that be his father, thereby making two distinct individuals? I don't see where the scriptures change the normal meaning of either "father" or "son" but if it did who knows what other words God may have used in a way completely foreign to the normal meanings of those words.

 

[Bob Estey]

I guess there's a difference between being "a" father and "the father." But that does beg the question of who is God the Son of? If He is "a" son, he has to have a father. Your father is also somebody's son. Wouldn't that be his father, thereby making two distinct individuals? I don't see where the scriptures change the normal meaning of either "father" or "son" but if it did who knows what other words God may have used in a way completely foreign to the normal meanings of those words.

Put another way: God wears three hats.

 

[Rich R]

Put another way: God wears three hats.

I suppose that could be said about God, but the Athenasian Creed names three Gods then says they are not three Gods, but one God. I don't think it's talking about hats. Actually, I don't know what it says, given it violates pretty much all rules of logic and grammar as well as radically changing the normal meaning of simple words. Maybe you don't agree with the Athenasian Creed?

 

[Bob Estey]

I suppose that could be said about God, but the Athenasian Creed names three Gods then says they are not three Gods, but one God. I don't think it's talking about hats. Actually, I don't know what it says, given it violates pretty much all rules of logic and grammar as well as radically changing the normal meaning of simple words. Maybe you don't agree with the Athenasian Creed?

I haven't read the Athenasian Creed. I believe in one God.

 

[Rich R]

I haven't read the Athenasian Creed. I believe in one God.

I understand. The Athenasian Creed is pretty interesting read. You can find a lot of info about it as well as a Latin and English version here: Athanasian Creed - Wikipedia. As far as I know, it contains the foundational doctrine of the Roman Catholic faith. Probably may Protestants also, but not sure exactly which denominations believe it.

 

[Bob Estey]

I understand. The Athenasian Creed is pretty interesting read. You can find a lot of info about it as well as a Latin and English version here: Athanasian Creed - Wikipedia. As far as I know, it contains the foundational doctrine of the Roman Catholic faith. Probably may Protestants also, but not sure exactly which denominations believe it.

Thanks. Creeds can be interesting - we had one or two we used to recite in our church - but I fear some people adopt a creed and forget the Bible. I guess a creed is an attempt to sum up the Bible.

 

[Keiw]

If anyone declares who God is not, then he must know who God is, and so he must know God, to declare Him.

Do you know God?



You declare to know the truth.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

So, you know Jesus?

Yes i know God=YHWH(Jehovah) = the Father--- Yes Jesus= the one sent forth by the Father, the messiah, Gods son, not God.
Yes if you listen to Jesus in your own post--getting to the Father is the destination--to accomplish this-John 4:22-24--24/7, 365.
Jesus calls his Father( one who sent him) - THE ONLY TRUE GOD-John 17:3--the same reason after Paul warns of false gods names the one true God=Father-1Cor 8:5-6

 

[Earburner]

That was for the space of three hours on the cross, then He revived to become the Savior and quickening Spirit of all them that believe and obey Him.

I don't care for the use of the word "revive", in place of the word "resurrected". Revived sounds like Jesus was resucitated back to His old mortal life, which was NOT His situation at all. He was resurrected unto New Life, with an immortal body.

 

[Earburner]

I am a non trinitarian, i know 100% Jesus is not God. God did not come to earth. The bible is clear, God sent another= The speaker at Prov 8= Gods master worker, the one whom God created all other things through.

So, you are saying that Jesus was NOT eternal before the world was created.

Maybe these scriptures will change your mind, if you are so inclined:
Hebrews 10[4] For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

John.17[5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

 

[ChristisGod]

Glad your not my judge.

John 8:24- God is your Judge- Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1, John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8-10, Colossians 1:18; Colossians 2:9. God in the flesh - John 1:1-3; John 1:14.

Paul says one must confess Jesus is YHWH to be saved. Romans 10:9-13.


Joel 2:32
32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the Lord has said,
Even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.

Here we see Paul quote this OT passage about YHWH and apply it to Jesus who is the one and only Lord according to the N.T.

Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

So a person must confess Jesus is YHWH(Lord) to be saved. Confess means to agree with so the person confessing Jesus is Lord is in agreement that He is YHWH. Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord ( YHWH) will be saved.Jesus said unless you believe I Am ( YHWH) you will die in your sins.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Rich R]

John 8:24- God is your Judge- Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1, John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8-10, Colossians 1:18; Colossians 2:9. God in the flesh - John 1:1-3; John 1:14.

Paul says one must confess Jesus is YHWH to be saved. Romans 10:9-13.


Joel 2:32
32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the Lord has said,
Even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.

Here we see Paul quote this OT passage about YHWH and apply it to Jesus who is the one and only Lord according to the N.T.

Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

So a person must confess Jesus is YHWH(Lord) to be saved. Confess means to agree with so the person confessing Jesus is Lord is in agreement that He is YHWH. Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord ( YHWH) will be saved.Jesus said unless you believe I Am ( YHWH) you will die in your sins.

hope this helps !!!

You correctly quote Romans 10:9-13 and then proceed to add to it what's not really there.

 

[ChristisGod]

You correctly quote Romans 10:9-13 and then proceed to add to it what's not really there.

No Paul quoted from the OT about YHWH and declared that Lord ( YHWH ) is Jesus that one must confess He is Lord ( YHWH ). He does that with several other OT passages about YHWH and declares its the Son.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Rich R]

No Paul quoted from the OT about YHWH and declared that Lord ( YHWH ) is Jesus that one must confess He is Lord ( YHWH ). He does that with several other OT passages about YHWH and declares its the Son.

hope this helps !!!

Jesus is YHWH: I think that's what you are saying.
YHWH is the Father: That's what the scriptures say.
If both are true, then Jesus is the Father?

 

[ChristisGod]

Jesus is YHWH: I think that's what you are saying.
YHWH is the Father: That's what the scriptures say.
If both are true, then Jesus is the Father?

No just as both the Father and Son are called God, Savior , Lord they are both called YHWH yet They are not each other .

hope this helps !!!

 

[Jack]

I say to Jesus as Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God"!