Who Do You Worship?

[Aunty Jane]

It's a well-documented case, the woman chose not to have a transfusion and died. As for other procedures and blood substitutes, why didn't she choose to have one of them, or even have blood donated by a fellow JW?

"Well documented" by whom?

I seriously hate addressing ignorance....the reason why we refuse blood has nothing to do with medicine...it is for us breaking God's law on the sanctity of blood. God's people were forbidden to consume any kind of blood under penalty of death. That makes it serious to us. It is not something we impose on others because it is a conscience decision to stick with God's law, regardless of the outcome. Better to die faithful than to break God's law and lose your everlasting life. (Matthew 16:26)

Leviticus 17 :10, 14...
"And anyone from the house of Israel, or from the strangers who reside among them, who eats any blood, I will set My face against that person who eats the blood, and will cut him off from among his people. . . . . “For as for the life of all flesh, its blood is identified with its life. Therefore I said to the sons of Israel, ‘You are not to eat the blood of any flesh, for the life of all flesh is its blood; whoever eats it shall be cut off."

And if you think a transfusion is not "eating" blood, consider how a person is "fed" when they cannot eat by mouth......they are fed intravenously.

If you don't know what you're talking about, then please do not make your judgmental remarks on what you read in a newspaper or on some sensationalized report on the nightly news.

If you think everyone who receives a blood transfusion lives, then think again.....sometimes, no matter how much blood they receive, people will die. Taking someone else's blood into your body sets up an immune response because our bodies are designed to reject foreign tissue. You are receiving someone else's DNA...consider for a moment what that means.

Please watch the video and educate yourself.

 

[Brakelite]

Just one thing only here as, we do not want to constantly rehash over and over again. As far as font sizes, I use the larger print for a good brother on here who is has bad eyesight so, as long as he is with us, I will use the number 5 font.
God bless

I appreciate it also, age catches up with us all. I just haven't got into the habit of using it myself yet.

 

[Brakelite]

Did Jesus worship anyone or anything?

Always, Jesus was absolutely a different personality than His Father, so I would presume, particularly as a man, He worshipped His Father while on earth as a man.
The pre-incarnation Christ however, well, we don't know how that relationship worked do we. Still different personalities, but the Son was very definitely God as scripture informs us all over the place. Even the Father called His Son, God.

 

[Matthias]

Always, Jesus was absolutely a different personality than His Father, so I would presume, particularly as a man, He worshipped His Father while on earth as a man.

The man Jesus worshipped one person, his Father, the Father.

With Peter and Paul I say, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

The God of Jesus is only one person, the Father.

The God of me is only one person, the Father.

Having that knowledge about me, you should (and do) have no difficulty recognizing and acknowledging me as a non-trinitarian. You should (and do) have no difficulty recognizing and acknowledging me as a unitarian. And the man Jesus?

The pre-incarnation Christ however, well, we don't know how that relationship worked do we.

You believe in the literal preexistence of Christ. I believe in the ideal preexistence of Christ.

You say you don’t know how a literal preexistence relationship worked. I say I know how a notional preexistence relationship worked.

Still different personalities, but the Son was very definitely God as scripture informs us all over the place. Even the Father called His Son, God.

Here we are then: “Jesus is God.”

For our readers who may not know - you are a non-trinitarian and I am a non-trinitarian.

You believe “Jesus is God” is literally true. I believe “Jesus is God” is figuratively true.

 

[ChristisGod]

What would Jesus of Nazareth say if we were to put the question to him?

“Who do you worship, Jesus?”

Can you point me to any N.T. passage where it says Jesus " worshipped " ?

 

[Matthias]

Can you point me to any N.T. passage where it says Jesus " worshipped " ?

No. Can you point us to any N.T. passage where Jesus engaged in practices which are associated with worship? Easily, I would think.

 

[ChristisGod]

No. Can you point us to any N.T. passage where Jesus engaged in practices which are associated with worship? Easily, I would think.

Its rather funny we can find dozens of passages where Jesus is worshipped by many but you cannot find one verse where Jesus Himself worshipped.

The apostles and the Jews worshiped God alone and yet we find Jesus was worshipped and rebuked no one for worshipping Him.

So I rest my case.

 

[Matthias]

Its rather funny we can find dozens of passages where Jesus is worshipped by many but you cannot find one verse where Jesus Himself worshipped.

The apostles and the Jews worshiped God alone and yet we find Jesus was worshipped and rebuked no one for worshipping Him.

So I rest my case.

That’s fine. I’ll continue mine.

Prayer is an Act of Worship

 

[ChristisGod]

That’s fine. I’ll continue mine.

Prayer is an Act of Worship

Please do with your argument from silence fallacy regarding worship.

 

[Matthias]

Please do with your argument from silence fallacy regarding worship.

I believe prayer is an act of worship and there are many examples of Jesus praying in the scripture. I find that persuasive. If you don’t then fine. Others will.

Me - Jesus worshipped his God.

You - Jesus didn’t worship.

 

[ChristisGod]

I believe prayer is an act of worship and there are many examples of Jesus praying in the scripture. I find that persuasive. If you don’t then fine. Others will.

Me - Jesus worshipped his God.

You - Jesus didn’t worship.

Like I said Scripture is specific. God says what He means and means what He says- God does not mince words and is very precise. So precise that He says not one jot or tittle will pass away.

Scripture never says: Jesus worshipped.

next

 

[Matthias]

Like I said Scripture is specific. God says what He means and means what He says- God does not mince words and is very precise. So precise that He says not one jot or tittle will pass away.

Scripture never says: Jesus worshipped.

next

Scripture shows that Jesus worshipped. Scripture also shows who he worshipped.

If you don’t find it persuasive then it would be foolish of you to believe it.

 

[Dropship]

"Well documented" by whom?

I seriously hate addressing ignorance..

Here's the news item again, it seems clear enough..-


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And as I said before, God had to warn people to lay off meat for a while in Old T times because there was probably livestock disease going around, but later the all-clear was given, now go out and buy yourself a nice juicy steak and tuck in..

"On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common." (Acts of the Apostles 10:1-14)

 

[ChristisGod]

Scripture shows that Jesus worshipped. Scripture also shows who he worshipped.

If you don’t find it persuasive then it would be foolish of you to believe it.

Where does the Bible say :

Jesus worshipped ?

Got Scripture ?

next strawman fallacy

 

[amadeus]

Like I said Scripture is specific...
Scripture never says: Jesus worshipped.

Could you please explain your understanding of the following verse. Is Jesus not included in the pronoun, "we"?

"Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews." John 4:22

 

[Matthias]

Where does the Bible say :

Jesus worshipped ?

Got Scripture ?

next strawman fallacy

You rested your case and aren’t persuaded by mine.

All we can do is share with people what we believe and why we believe it.

There was a time when I was persuaded by your case. I’m not any longer.

I’m presenting my case to those who believe prayer is a form of worship, not the only form of worship, and Jesus worshipped his God when he engaged in prayer to his God.

Thousands upon thousands of trinitarians readily acknowledge what you deny. They are persuaded that the man worshipped his God. You aren’t.

 

[Matthias]

Could you please explain your understanding of the following verse. Is Jesus not included in the pronoun, "we"?

"Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews." John 4:22

I’m absolutely convinced that he is, that it is implied in the verse, but technically that doesn’t meet the request he made for the exact phrase “Jesus worshipped” in scripture. That’s, apparently, the only thing that would persuade him.

 

[amadeus]

I’m absolutely convinced that he is, that it is implied in the verse, but technically that doesn’t meet the request he made for the exact phrase “Jesus worshipped” in scripture. That’s, apparently, the only thing that would persuade him.

The ATs [Absolute Truths] of men can and do, I believe, lead them into trouble with God. What are God's ATs? He certainly knows them, every one but what do we know rather than simply believe?

Who among us is still seeing through a "glass darkly"?

What do we follow by faith and what by knowledge?

What man among us has already overcome all obstacles to Absolute Truth [knowledge] so as to see Him clearly face-to-face?

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

 

[Matthias]

I thought this was an interesting piece. Before I finished reading it I wondered to myself, “Is this going to be a ‘do as I say, not as I do’ presentation or a ‘do as I say, do what I do’ presentation?”

It wasn’t long until I received the answer to my question.

“… Jesus taught about worship by the way he lived his life. ..He chose to worship God rather than giving in to temptation. …”

(Rick Muchow, “What Did Jesus Teach About Worship?”

What Did Jesus Teach About Worship?

I found his “do as I say and do what I do” presentation persuasive.

 

[marks]

That’s not the answer he would give in response to the question he was asked. That’s your answer, placed in his mouth.

Jesus would answer that he worshipped his God.

Jesus would know the meaning and reason for your question and would answer you appropriately. And to play, "what would Jesus say if . . ." is hardly appropriate or reverent. Just my opinion on that one. Any answer is a person's answer, placed in Jesus' mouth, as you say.

Much love!