Scripture Study of The Immortal Soul (Spirit of Man/Woman)

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Ronald David Bruno

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It wasn't a death, as such, but a separation which required important spiritual acts to find redemption
Have to disagree with that one. God said, "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Gen. 2:17
They didn't physically die that day, although their cells began to die and death entered into all creation. So what did die on that day? It must have been their spirits. They still had souls as all people do. But a soul and spirit are not exactly the same, (though highly integrated), if they can be divided. And that is what the word of God does. Can you find that scripture that confirms that?
Spiritual death is a separation from God. We are born with dead spirits and remain dead in our trespasses until Christ gives us life. Everyone else is walking around dead, as cell phones with a dead battery... "Hello ... is anyone there?" They can't commune with God and are unaware of God until He quickens their dead spirits, gives them a jump start. Then He gives us life, makes us a new creature, a soul, now with a spiritually powered source enabling us to be transformed (mind, will, emotions, and actions) into the likeness of Christ.
 

face2face

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Have to disagree with that one. God said, "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Gen. 2:17
Ronald...the Hebrew is “in dying, you will die.” It would not be an instantaneous, summary execution "in that day". Let's be clear, the breath of life was not some ethereal part of God (essence) put into the first pair, that is nowhere taught in the Bible. There was no difference between Adam and the animals he named - same breath! Ecclesiastes 3:19 - we could debate this forever, but I am happy to know the first pair eventually died, and to this day they are in the earth and know nothing, awaiting the resurrection. Ecclesiastes 9:5
F2F

A side note, did you notice Eve changed the command (didn't understand it fully)? But Eve said "Lest ye die" to mean "in case you die"
 
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Phoneman777

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Okay, because of Romans 2:7-9; It does say, to those, indeed, who in continuance of a good work, do seek glory, and honour and incorruptibility -- life age-during.

And to those contentious, and disobedient, indeed, to the truth, and obeying the unrighteousness -- indignation and wrath,

tribulations and distress, upon every soul of man that is working the evil, both Jew first, and of Greek.

So, there are two factors here, one of a soul (mind/will/emotion) of a individual who do continue in good work, do seek glory and honor and incorruptibility - which is life age-during. (Some scripture says Eternal).

The second one, being of those are contentious, disobedient, indeed, to the truth, and obeying the unrighteousness, (Indignation and wrath) along with tribulations, and distress, upon every soul of man that is working the evil, both to the Jew first, and of the greek.

With this being said, I do not see where a soul is going to be annihilated, maybe you do, however I do see where indignation and wrath - along with many troubles for an individual (Soul) that works the evil.​




Yes a living soul - the word for soul is Nephesh, and it is a soul, a living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion.

The breathe that God breathed into the man, the word is neshamah - which is NASB translation is, blast, breath, breathes, life, persons alive, spirit, who breathed.

So I do believe that God breathed into the man, the breathe of life, that made him alive and it was part of the the spirit which introduced the man to becoming a living soul.

Adam died spiritually when he ate from the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil, and died 900 years later. However where did his soul go? Where did the soul of all the people who died on the earth when God sent he flood go?
Where they all annihilated? Where they placed somewhere separated from God? I personally believe everyone went to the Sheol - the covering place from God that the dead where held in which comprised of two compartments Paradise and Prison. This were all the disembodied souls of individuals had been put. There was even a part where Angels who gave up their estate, and were held in chains, who had left their heavenly estate.





The only part of human beings I see that dies, is the vessel that we carry around, that being the body, however when this body dies, eventually through passing generations, people are forgotten and no longer remembered because they return back to dust, they have no more sayings, or doings on the earth for that they have died. However their soul - the very living thing that makes us who we are - (mind/will/emotions) - couldn't be fully lost could it?

Considering what Moses wrote here in Genesis 1:27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

God is immortal, and if Adam and Eve never sinned, they would have lived forever too ( I believe ), however eventually one their kids would have probably ate from that tree and then they would have all spiritually died. They would have been separated from God. However the life of God is breathed into human beings when they first enter into the world and take their first breath.

And for me personally (you may disagree), I believe all people after this life are resurrected, faithful, or faithless. So to say that the soul dies in the sense of it is obliterate is wrong in my best estimation. However people do believe that, and I am not here to judge but will share with you.




The Soul is not the body, but the Soul is our (mind/will/emotions), just as God has a mind/will/and has shown emotions, through the old testament, and also through the Word - Jesus Christ. Did Jesus when he die, did his soul die? From my belief, Jesus went to Hades/Sheol, and the thief on the cross went to Paradise with Jesus that very same day. This Paradise is not heaven, Yeshua had to go through what everyone else had to go through before being raised again. While being a disembodied spirit/soul - He traveled from Paradise and even preached or gave a message to those who were lost in the days of Noah. Three days later, he was risen again by God, and thus resurrection followed suit afterwards.

I believe all people will be resurrected faithless, and faithful. Jesus said something about this in John 5:29, and he should be believed.

On the question of the soul - How can a soul die? Remember now, the soul is the (mind/will/emotions) of an individual and it is what interacts with our body.

  • If I sell my self out to do nothing but see gains in this world, will I not lose my (mind/will/emotions) if all I desire to do is smoke meth, and have sex with whoever I want to?
  • Or perhaps eat all kinds of food, and gain all kinds of power and money and wealth, will I not lose my mind/will/emotions of the one I should truly be setting my eyes on?
  • That being Yahweh and His Son?

Think about what Jesus said here:

  • Mark 8:
  • 34Then Jesus called the crowd to Him along with His disciples, and He told them, “If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me.
  • 35For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and for the gospel will save it.
  • 36What does it profit a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?
  • 37Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?
  • 38If anyone is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in His Father’s glory with the holy angels.”


This is all I felt like responding to @Phoneman777 you can disagree, or agree however you may, these are my own personal beliefs, and I am not here to force anyone to believe anything I say, but these are some of the things that reside in my own heart.
ONE POINT AT A TIME, PLEASE.

Paul plainly tells us in Romans 2:7 KJV that only those who "seek for immortality" will be granted eternal life. You don't seek for a wallet that's already in your pocket, you don't seek for a spouse if you're already married, and you don't seek for immortality if you're already immortal.

God "only hath immortality" and grants it only to those who "seek for immortality". The debate must end here...and an honest, unbiased reexamination of "proof texts for the immortality of the soul" which are few in number by comparison (such as Luke 16, 2 Corinthians 5, etc.) must be made to see how these can absolutely be interpreted to agree with Romans 2:7 KJV...and by doing so, any honest scholar will easily see they do.

Only those who insist on reading the Bible to confirm preconceived errors taught them by false pulpit prophets will stubbornly refuse to accept that man is mortal and is only granted immortality if he first seeks it.
 
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MatthewG

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Sorry, done addressed you as fully as I could, Phoneman777.

So please, you believe what you want, and I will just go my own way brother.

Thank you.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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See @Aunty Jane how Christians make assumptions on Biblical text which just isn't there, so many gross fabrications which when applied one after another you get this inserted story, which just isn't there.

Lucifer or a Fallen Angel
King of Tyre or a Supernatural Creature of Darkness
The Powerless Adversary in Job

I appreciate the post Ronald, but nothing in it has any Biblical foundation at all. If you are inclined to read the threads you will see why.

F2F
So you are comparing me to a JW? I said some points were conjecture, not doctrine, just spit balling.
But nothing in my post is Biblical? Sorry, I can roll up my sleeves and give you scriptures?
Specifically which points - if you want go at it?
1. Spirits in this passage are not necessarily departed humans. You made that claim.
2. Spirits are angels and fallen angels. You agreed.
3. Fallen angels are locked up in prison, Tartarus, which is separate from Hades, where departed ungodly souls are.
4. Prior to Christ, the afterlife was divided into two sections, Hades and Paradise, (or sometimes called Abraham's bosom). Hades, the netherworld, a place of darkness and torment was the place where the ungodly souls went. Paradise, was a place where the faithful, godly men went and both places were separated by a gulf.
5. Luke 16:19-31 describes both places, one where the Rich man went and the other where Lazarus and Abraham were. This was not a parable. Parables never mention specific names of people like Abraham. And Jesus would not create some abstract fictional place and use Abraham's name to symbolically describe something else.

6. So Jesus preached to spirits - how? By the Holy Spirit who spoke through the prophets.
It just sounds like Jesus was telling us by Whom He operated through at that time.
7. If He preached to fallen angels in Tartarus, why?
8. They rebelled against God.
9. Why? I think Satan and his fallen angels, once they found out about God's plan for man, whom the angels were made for the purpose of protecting and serving us, THEY GOT JEALOUS AND ENVIOUS. Satan hated that idea. Remember, Lucifer was the most glorious and beautiful angels. Take a back seat to man ... serve him?
10. We will someday be glorified and above the angels, even judging them.
LUCIFER turned and became our enemy, SATAN, the accuser and took 1/3 of the angels with him.
11. So these bad angels were left in prison (and still are locked up).
12. They were left in the dark, not knowing why. They were not privy to God's plan, nor was Satan. They were confused.
13. So now Jesus reveals the truth to them, the climax of the story ... "This is why ... all along I was to become a Savior and I accomplished this purpose..." Maybe He thought they deserved an explanation? IMHO - just conjecture though.
Aside from 9 and 13 which are conjecture, which other points would you like me to supply scriptural support for???
1 and 2 were just reiterating what you said, so you are at least _ in essence _ stating that your points aren't Biblical. So please don't broad brush my post with a "nothing in it is Biblical".
Waiting.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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Let's be clear, the breath of life was not some ethereal part of God (essence) put into the first pair, that is nowhere taught in the Bible. There was no difference between Adam and the animals he named - same breath!
Something changed (died) on that day. Something that the animals did not have, a spirit. Animals have souls but not spirits.
Where do you think Hid dwells in us. Je dwells in a place that is separate from sin, which dwells in the members of our flesh. Are flesh is not kust our body, but also our souls (minds, wills and emotions), you know the invisible you.

and to this day they are in the earth and know nothing, awaiting the resurrection.
Are you someone who believes in "soul sleep" as the JW's do and SDA's? Listen, if you are either. we can just stop right here, no need to go any further, it's futile.
 

ChristisGod

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What I do see is how people can be manipulative, they will mock you and laugh at you, downplay you behind your back, and never honest up front with another person.

I use to be that person who would use people to his own advantage and try to mentally break them down for my own satisfaction.

God changed me though, gave me a new mind and a new heart.

So people out there beware of these manipulative tactics they come in trying to be nice and press you until you break and then you start feeling as though you are the one who is going insane!

It very scary and worrisome that many people hav experienced and their is only true rest in looking to the Lord Jesus Christ!

Always look to him and if you wanna know what the Bible says go by yourself alone with a pad to write down things you see and learn about it.

There are very helpful study bibles but also word study books out there of Hebrew and Greek and it will enhance your learning as you continue to grow, in the spirit and in knowledge of God.

Love to all, and always forgive your enemies.
I have read some very unloving words and thoughts from you on this page. This is why the bible warns not many of you should become teachers James 3:1. A teacher is not one who is quick tempered but is patient and willing to give an answer to anyone who askes them with gentleness, respect and patience. 1 Peter 3:15.

hope this helps !!!
 

face2face

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ONE POINT AT A TIME, PLEASE.

Paul plainly tells us in Romans 2:7 KJV that only those who "seek for immortality" will be granted eternal life. You don't seek for a wallet that's already in your pocket, you don't seek for a spouse if you're already married, and you don't seek for immortality if you're already immortal.
MattG would be confronted with the strength of that text and possibly run a mile. I've asked him to find the strongest proofs for his beliefs only to see him continue to provide weak text with inferred notions. You are commended for raising this truth.
 
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MatthewG

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One must think though.


If There is going to be a resurrection from the dead, for a faithless person, and a faithful person.

How can people say that the soul of an individual doesn't go forward?

Do you not believe what Jesus stated here?

John 5:29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

It sounds as though people who believe you die today, and you aren't a believer you just cease to exist, and was that the case for Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and also those who died in the days of Noah?
 

face2face

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One must think though.


If There is going to be a resurrection from the dead, for a faithless person, and a faithful person.

How can people say that the soul of an individual doesn't go forward?

Do you not believe what Jesus stated here?

John 5:29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

It sounds as though people who believe you die today, and you aren't a believer you just cease to exist, and was that the case for Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and also those who died in the days of Noah?
Hebrews 11:39–40 (ESV): 39 And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40 since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.

Another strong proof text MattG
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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“in dying, you will die.
I just read through over 50 English translations of that verse and most all say "on that day" or "in that day" "you will surely die". A few did not say day at all. None of them say "in dying ..." Even so, physically, in dying, we die, whether itnis in one day or a lifetime. Spiritually, death would be instant, not gradually: hence, on that day, they surely died.
 

ChristisGod

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May you be humble and accept correction and not let pride and the flesh get in the way of the Spirit.

hope this helps !!!
 

face2face

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May the Lord God judge.
You see that verse @MatthewG ?

This is what you just did...the opposite of Samuel!

19 And Samuel grew, and the LORD was with him, and did let none of his words fall to the ground.

I cant tell from your response if you understand Hebrews 11:39-40 or not? I presume not from your defecting reply.

And all these (faithful witnesses), though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.

Red text: So at the time of the writing of this book, none of the witnesses received what was promised!
Blue Text: Includes those believers who received this book, and all subsequent to it, until such time as the calling of the Gentile is complete and God sends His Son to gather and resurrect the dead, to receive the promises.
Pink Text: Speaks to a time when everyone will be perfected together (Hasn't happened yet!)

Hope that helps! ;)
 
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MatthewG

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You can say whatever and share what you like face2face, but I have you on ignore okay?

There are a few people I have to put on ignore because all they have is injections and share their own teachings that they decide to share and I personally can't handle it because of being very weak human being. Do love these who are continuing to do such things however it has come to a point that I have to use the ignore feature, that is why it was created by whoever made these types of websites.

Thank you so much for understanding,

Matthew Gallagher.
 

face2face

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I just read through over 50 English translations of that verse and most all say "on that day" or "in that day" "you will surely die". A few did not say day at all. None of them say "in dying ..." Even so, physically, in dying, we die, whether itnis in one day or a lifetime. Spiritually, death would be instant, not gradually: hence, on that day, they surely died.
Only 50 :cool:
tn Heb “dying you will die.”
Even the translation note shows the Hebrew.
Its conveying the certainty of death, but not an execution style death on that day.
As as side rather than using your machine gun approach to prove the immortal essence show me a passage of Scripture that teaches the disembodiment of the flesh and spirit - just one for now - your strongest text. Evidence this immortal soul leaves the body as a person.
Good luck.
 

Taken

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Have to disagree with that one. God said, "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Gen. 2:17
They didn't physically die that day, although their cells began to die and death entered into all creation. So what did die on that day? It must have been their spirits. They still had souls as all people do. But a soul and spirit are not exactly the same, (though highly integrated), if they can be divided. And that is what the word of God does. Can you find that scripture that confirms that?
Spiritual death is a separation from God. We are born with dead spirits and remain dead in our trespasses until Christ gives us life. Everyone else is walking around dead, as cell phones with a dead battery... "Hello ... is anyone there?" They can't commune with God and are unaware of God until He quickens their dead spirits, gives them a jump start. Then He gives us life, makes us a new creature, a soul, now with a spiritually powered source enabling us to be transformed (mind, will, emotions, and actions) into the likeness of Christ.

Agree with some points.
What did die that day?
Not the “natural body” of man.
Not the “natural spirit” of man.
Not the “soul” of man.
~ rather a “spiritual death”; meaning;
Yet though a body is alive, natural spirit is alive, soul is alive...
~ A man “separated”, body, soul, spirit FROM God is “spiritually dead”.

In the Garden, every day Adam had the Presence of God with him IN that Specific Location.
The moment Adam was escorted OUT of the Garden, he was “separated” from Gods presence. That was the day, (and moment) Adam “died”.

* We also note, God forgave Adam (when God covered Adams “sin”, ie flesh body that Sinned Against God. Obviously slaying an animal, “ie sacrifice” for the sin of the mans body, and presumption of the animals blood spilled, (ie the blood was its life), for forgiveness of sin.
* We also note, After Adam was covered with the animal skin, Adam being escorted in his way OUT of the Garden...Adam passed by the “tree of life”, and could have picked and ate from that tree... He didn’t.

* It’s all a foreshadow of the Big Picture...Separation death from God, Yet while a man is Alive.
Hearing the Truth
Stumbling away from the Truth.
Opportunity to the last moment to grasp and Eat up the Truth,
Be forgiven, Be with God forever.

* So how did Adam fair once on the OUTside of the Garden?
(without much debate or conversation, we can say Adam believed and was saved.)
* How so?
* Son Seth born. God acknowledged a son given. (Sign of belief.)
Gen 4:25
* Son (Enos) of Seth born. The days men began to call on the Name of the LORD, Adam, Grandfather of (Enos), a man and still alive. (Adam also calling on the Name of LORD, suggestive.)
Gen 4:26
* Adam called the son of God. (Indicative of With God.)
Luke 3:28

* note mentioning “natural spirit of man”. (Not the soul, ie breath of life)...
~ natural spirit of man, IS natural mans TRUTH in his hearts thoughts.
(Not the minds logical wavering changing truths). Expressly Truth in the Hearts thoughts, (regardless what the mind thinks, believes, acts on.)
~ It is the circumcision of the Foreskin token, via first covenant...
A precursor to “circumcision of the Heart”. A spiritual circumcision, effected by God, to “cut off a mans old natural, secular Truth”...
Receive a new Heart, a new seed (Gods Seed, who is Christ), and that Seed Birth a “new spirit in the man”, called born again of the Spirit of God and in the spirit of man. There that Seed, is fed and nourished By Gods Spirit (ie Spirit of Gods Truth), that that mans “born again spirit”, becomes in Gods likeness, ie same Truth.

* and then there is the thingy of having a MIND like Christ...humm...
God does not CHANGE a mans MIND, so how does that become accomplished to have a MIND like Christ?
* The TOOLS, The POWER of God “in a man”...ie Spirit of Truth in the mans new heart.
* The man thereafter has the POWER of God “with” him to MAKE HIS “natural carnal minds thoughts....(that wavers, changes repeatedly, thinks wicked things, etc.....) to BE “subservient”, over powered by the hearts new thoughts, of truth and righteousness, ability to oppress the deceptive MIND, to acquiesce to the thoughts and desires of the Hearts thoughts.

* Remember, Greater is he that is IN you, than he that is IN the world.
Ah ha!
* Bottom line, WHY and HOW a converted man fairs better IN the world, Despite the continual fear mongering (by men OF the world) of wars, famines, crimes, diseases, threats of encampments, threats of death....
* God shall comfort the Converted through mans threats. No worry’s what men do...
Converted men ARE already With the Lord God forever, No man can can supersede Gods Power.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

face2face

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You can say whatever and share what you like face2face, but I have you on ignore okay?

There are a few people I have to put on ignore because all they have is injections and share their own teachings that they decide to share and I personally can't handle it because of being very weak human being. Do love these who are continuing to do such things however it has come to a point that I have to use the ignore feature, that is why it was created by whoever made these types of websites.

Thank you so much for understanding,

Matthew Gallagher.
No harsh words this time MattG so that's progress.
The red, blue and pink text are strong points...also Romans 2:7, a beauty!
 

Phoneman777

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MattG would be confronted with the strength of that text and possibly run a mile. I've asked him to find the strongest proofs for his beliefs only to see him continue to provide weak text with inferred notions. You are commended for raising this truth.
Thanks for the kind words. Perhaps our brother will reconsider the weight of evidence a verse like this represents. While some Bible verses taken alone can be interpreted different ways and thus requires "line upon line, precept upon precept, here and there a little" to get their true meaning, this is no such verse. It's absolutely means exactly what it says, and we must adjust our beliefs to conform to it if we are to remain Bible Christians, amen?
 
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face2face

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Something changed (died) on that day. Something that the animals did not have, a spirit. Animals have souls but not spirits.
Where do you think Hid dwells in us. Je dwells in a place that is separate from sin, which dwells in the members of our flesh. Are flesh is not kust our body, but also our souls (minds, wills and emotions), you know the invisible you.
A defiled conscience is not a dead conscience!...just needs cleaning Ephesians 5:26
 
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MatthewG

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It is incumbent on an individual to study to show themselves approved of God.

Human beings as we are all fallible, can have fallible ideas and notions all alike, however we can find grace and truth found in Jesus Christ.

I have a fascination and love for all of the people here on the board as not every one person is the same part of the body of Christ, there is eye, tooth, gum, tongue, foot, and the like manner.

Either way it goes, when it comes down to studying, one should be encouraged to do it for themselves, and hopefully be and through the Holy Spirit which leads one into all truth.


If Jesus wasn't right about the rising again about those who did good, and those who did evil,

What are we to believe? I choose to believe him, and I also choose to believe this too:

  • 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
  • Romans 14:11 For the Scriptures say, “‘As surely as I live,’ says the LORD, ‘every knee will bend to me, and every tongue will declare allegiance to God.’”
  • Php 2:10 that in the Name of Jesus every knee may bow—of heavenlies, and earthlies, and what are under the earth—
  • Php 2:11 and every tongue may confess that Jesus Christ [is] LORD, to the glory of God the Father.
  • Revelation 22: 14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.


How can all tongues confess, in heaven or on earth if everyone just dies and there is no soul left for the individual?

Very confusing doctrine, people believe in.

Believe and seek the grace and truth found in Jesus.

  • John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.