Scripture Study of The Immortal Soul (Spirit of Man/Woman)

[MatthewG]

Why do people not believe in the immortal soul? The soul (spirit of Man/Woman) is composed of (mind/will/emotion) of an individual that is housed inside of a body - that is formed in the womb of the woman, that is created by God (of course some factors of what a person does to their body while pregnant does cause some problems during creation of the baby inside of the womb.)

• Ecclesiastes 12:7 And the dust returneth to the earth as it was, And the spirit returneth to God who gave it.

• Matthew 10:28 And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.

• Luke 12:20 `And God said to him, Unthinking one! this night thy soul they shall require from thee, and what things thou didst prepare -- to whom shall they be?

• 1 Corinthians 15:54 and when this corruptible may have put on incorruption, and this mortal may have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, `The Death was swallowed up -- to victory;

• Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, and the souls of those who have been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus, and because of the word of God, and who did not bow before the beast, nor his image, and did not receive the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand, and they did live and reign with Christ the thousand years;

Accordingly to scripture - souls live on in the afterlife ; before Jesus Christ and his return souls (or the spirit of man/woman) would reside in Sheol (the covering place of the dead - those who had died and passed away on earth.)

These scriptures make it clear that the soul (spirit of man) continues on after this life that soul is a part of you as a person now today. There are two destinations in my best estimation today, for people to go to that is the Heavenly Realm - being outside of the Kingdom having died not being a child of or a Son or Daughter of God. The second or first however you decide to apply this is in the new Heavenly Jerusalem where God resides inside of the the new spiritual city, according to Revelation 22.

• Revelation 22:14-15
• 14 `Happy are those doing His commands that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city;
• 15 and without [are] the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the whoremongers, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one who is loving and is doing a lie.

 

[face2face]

Why do people not believe in the immortal soul? The soul (spirit of Man/Woman) is composed of (mind/will/emotion) of an individual that is housed inside of a body - that is formed in the womb of the woman, that is created by God (of course some factors of what a person does to their body while pregnant does cause some problems during creation of the baby inside of the womb.)

• Ecclesiastes 12:7 And the dust returneth to the earth as it was, And the spirit returneth to God who gave it.

More correction is required I'm afraid MattG!

Ecclesiastes 12:7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the life’s breath returns to God who gave it.

So the question is this...how did the preacher perceive this breath of life? Was it in essence a part of God, immortal in nature, or was it merely speaking to the breath which kick started life? That internal function that keeps us alive!

Ecclesiastes 3:18 I also thought to myself, “It is for the sake of people, so God can clearly show them that they are like animals.

Ecclesiastes 3:19 For the fate of humans and the fate of animals are the same:

As one dies, so dies the other; both have the same breath. (consistent with Genesis record)

There is no advantage for humans over animals, for both are fleeting. Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who really knows if the human spirit (breath) ascends upward, and the animal’s spirit (breath) descends into the earth?

Ecclesiastes 3:22 So I perceived there is nothing better than for people to enjoy their work, because that is their reward; for who can show them what the future holds?

So how does the preacher’s view of Human Vs. Animal compare with the Genesis record?

Genesis 2:7 The Lord God formed the man from the soil of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

So it must be first stated nowhere in the Bible are the words immortal soul found - it's inferred like many Christian doctrines!

Secondly, God giving man and animal the breath of life simply means He gave them the ability to breath, that's it. I know it's not fancy or mysterious...no difference in our biology if we are comparing man with animal.

The Bible teaches that when a person dies, they are unconscious, knowing nothing, and are as though they never lived.

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 “The dead know not anything … their love their hatred their envy is perished …”

Ecclesiastes 9:10 “There is no work … nor knowledge, nor wisdom in the grave”

Ecclesiastes 6:5 “In death there is no remembrance”

Psalms 146:4 “His breath goeth forth … in that day his thoughts perish”


Let's assume men and women didn't perish like the animals we would have these contradictions:

Men would not perish like the beasts (Psalms 49:14, Psalms 19-20)


Immortality would not be only for the righteous (Romans 2:6-8)


Immortality would not be a gift of God (Romans 6:23)


Immortality would not be dependent on belief in Jesus Christ (John 6:40, John 11:25)


There would be no need for a resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:16-18)

Now if you want to talk about souls? Here is a list of what happens to souls!


Ezekiel 18:20 “The soul that sinneth it shall die”

Psalms 40:14 “That seek after my soul to destroy it”

Joshua 10:28 “… he utterly destroyed … all the souls”

MattG the mountain of Scripture you would need to rewrite to convince me there is an immortal soul would be so high, you would run out of oxygen and die on its slopes!

Soul just means the whole of a person, a life, and that’s why you see a soul eating, dying etc.

I would say this teaching of immortal soulism would have to be the most damaging to the overall story of the Bible, and the false doctrines which come from this is most severe indeed.

F2F

 

[MatthewG]

More correction is required I'm afraid MattG!

Ecclesiastes 12:7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the life’s breath returns to God who gave it.

So the question is this...how did the preacher perceive this breath of life? Was it in essence a part of God, immortal in nature, or was it merely speaking to the breath which kick started life? That internal function that keeps us alive!

Ecclesiastes 3:18 I also thought to myself, “It is for the sake of people, so God can clearly show them that they are like animals.

Ecclesiastes 3:19 For the fate of humans and the fate of animals are the same:

As one dies, so dies the other; both have the same breath. (consistent with Genesis record)

There is no advantage for humans over animals, for both are fleeting. Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who really knows if the human spirit (breath) ascends upward, and the animal’s spirit (breath) descends into the earth?

Ecclesiastes 3:22 So I perceived there is nothing better than for people to enjoy their work, because that is their reward; for who can show them what the future holds?

So how does the preacher’s view of Human Vs. Animal compare with the Genesis record?

Genesis 2:7 The Lord God formed the man from the soil of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

So it must be first stated nowhere in the Bible are the words immortal soul found - it's inferred like many Christian doctrines!

Secondly, God giving man and animal the breath of life simply means He gave them the ability to breath, that's it. I know it's not fancy or mysterious...no difference in our biology if we are comparing man with animal.

The Bible teaches that when a person dies, they are unconscious, knowing nothing, and are as though they never lived.

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 “The dead know not anything … their love their hatred their envy is perished …”

Ecclesiastes 9:10 “There is no work … nor knowledge, nor wisdom in the grave”

Ecclesiastes 6:5 “In death there is no remembrance”

Psalms 146:4 “His breath goeth forth … in that day his thoughts perish”


Let's assume men and women didn't perish like the animals we would have these contradictions:

Men would not perish like the beasts (Psalms 49:14, Psalms 19-20)


Immortality would not be only for the righteous (Romans 2:6-8)


Immortality would not be a gift of God (Romans 6:23)


Immortality would not be dependent on belief in Jesus Christ (John 6:40, John 11:25)


There would be no need for a resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:16-18)

Now if you want to talk about souls? Here is a list of what happens to souls!


Ezekiel 18:20 “The soul that sinneth it shall die”

Psalms 40:14 “That seek after my soul to destroy it”

Joshua 10:28 “… he utterly destroyed … all the souls”

MattG the mountain of Scripture you would need to rewrite to convince me there is an immortal soul would be so high, you would run out of oxygen and die on its slopes!

Soul just means the whole of a person, a life, and that’s why you see a soul eating, dying etc.

I would say this teaching of immortal soulism would have to be the most damaging to the overall story of the Bible, and the false doctrines which come from this is most severe indeed.

F2F

Thank you for sharing what you subjectively believe.

For me though I believe all of us when this life ends go to the heavenly realm, be it those who have faith or do not. Those of faith entering into the heavenly Jerusalem, and those of faithlessness outside of the kingdom.

Consider what Jesus said here,

• John 5:29
• 
  
• “and they shall come forth; those who did the good things to a rising again of life, and those who practised the evil things to a rising again of judgment.”
• ‭‭John‬ ‭5:29‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

There is a rising again of life, and also a rising again of judgment or in some cases condemnation.

There is actually a third noted resurrection, however it is better than the normal one most receive it is called the outer resurrection or exanastsis.

Thank you again for taking time to share.

 

[face2face]

Thank you for sharing what you subjectively believe.

For me though I believe all of us when this life ends go to the heavenly realm,

Where did you find such a belief?

 

[MatthewG]

I’ll just have dig in the sand brother. Love to you and your family.

 

[MatthewG]

If anyone else would like to comment on the subject at hand please feel free to do so.

There is no reason not to believe that our soul leaves our body and goes on to the heavenly realm, some to life and some to condemnation, as Jesus stated.

There is a third resurrection better than the normal one given though, if you can find out where Paul talks about it please share it here.

In the meantime hope all of you have a good night.

 

[Hidden In Him]

These scriptures make it clear that the soul (spirit of man) continues on after this life that soul is a part of you as a person now today. There are two destinations in my best estimation today, for people to go to that is the Heavenly Realm - being outside of the Kingdom having died not being a child of or a Son or Daughter of God. The second or first however you decide to apply this is in the new Heavenly Jerusalem where God resides inside of the the new spiritual city, according to Revelation 22.

Much better than a previous thread where I had to get on you a little about posting a novel, Lol. This is a well-written OP. It sets a scriptural basis for a discussion without overdoing it, and now leaves the door open to responses. Whatever else you have from this study can be posted as replies come in.

About the above paragraph, could you explain a little more clearly what you mean. The wording seems clouded. Define again what you believe are the two destinations for the souls of men if you could. I'll see if I can't respond tomorrow.

God bless,
Hidden In Him

 

[MatthewG]

It’s right there stated in the Revelation 22:14-15. It’s completely conjecture (on my end), however a statement made by the Apostle John, that showcases what is left after everything from Revelation 1-21 is all wrapped up and done with, in my best estimation. However I would not like to debate people and their beliefs but if they desire to share on the subject at hand that is fine to do so.

Debating people tires me out and I believe in liberty and freedom in Christ for seek and search for answers on their own and May the spirit guide and this to me is what true agape love is about, being kind and allowing people to believe freely. Though we have scriptures to use and reference from not everyone sees the same and not everyone is the same body part of Christ.

Each and everyone of the members of Christ have their part in the body and should rejoice as a follower of Christ to have a family that is in heaven and a family of believers that is on earth they can share with.

 

[face2face]

Thank you for sharing what you subjectively believe.

For me though I believe all of us when this life ends go to the heavenly realm, be it those who have faith or do not. Those of faith entering into the heavenly Jerusalem, and those of faithlessness outside of the kingdom.

Consider what Jesus said here,

• John 5:29
• 
  
• “and they shall come forth; those who did the good things to a rising again of life, and those who practised the evil things to a rising again of judgment.”
• ‭‭John‬ ‭5:29‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

There is a rising again of life, and also a rising again of judgment or in some cases condemnation.

I am not sure that your quote of John 5:29 was given to show your understanding of the resurrection or heaven going?

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, because a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 5:29 and will come out—the ones who have done what is good to the resurrection resulting in life, and the ones who have done what is evil to the resurrection resulting in condemnation

While all return to the grave where there is the cessation of life as the Apostles taught, the faithful who were dead were asleep in Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:16 For if the dead are not raised, then not even Christ has been raised. 1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is useless; you are still in your sins. 1 Corinthians 15:18 Furthermore, those who have fallen asleep in Christ have also perished.

There is a lot going on in those verses MattG

1. The raising of Christ is linked in the same manner as the dead who are buried and will be raised in the last days - i.e the dead will be raised in Christ's resurrection (or because of his resurrection through faith).
2. It's obvious without the resurrection of Christ, we are all sinners and our faith is useless!
3. Those who now sleep in the grave (completely and utterly dead!) are only known to the Heavenly Father and the Lord Jesus Christ will raise them in the last day. Of course the blue text should be a concern for you because its saying, if Christ be not raised those now dead and asleep in the grave will remain there!

Of course the Apostle couldn't say that if they were all in Heaven!

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. the resurrection of the dead also came through a man. 1 Corinthians 15:22 For just as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

It's super clear!

A tip for you - if you are forming beliefs on a certain subject make sure you use the strongest text to support your beliefs.

Daniel 12:2
Matthew 9:24 (Jesus' own Words!!!)
Matthew 27:52 (Dead raised)
Mark 5:39
Luke 8:52
John 11:11-14
Acts of the Apostles 13:36 (David dead to this day!)
1 Thessalonians 4:13-14
2 Peter 3:4

Should be plenty for you to ponder.

 

[face2face]

I’ll just have dig in the sand brother. Love to you and your family.

Okay, while you are digging in the sand, can you explain why Revelation 22:14-15 speaks to you of Heaven going whens it's clearly speaking of a Kingdom of God on Earth?

Revelation 21:10 speaks of the Kingdom descending

"showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God"

When something is descending it's coming down from Heaven.

Matthew 6:10 may your kingdom come, may your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

It's sounding fairly consistent there MattG

 

[MatthewG]

Thank you for sharing your subjective beliefs Face2Face.

Jesus teaching on the two resurrections is enough for me personally to believe that souls continue on in the afterlife.

If there was no resurrection I would believe those who say there is no immortal soul.

• John 5:29
• “and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.”
• ‭‭John‬ ‭5:29‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

All the souls/spirits that perished in Noah’s time where apparently still alive according to Peter.

Which before the resurrection of Christ all souls/spirits where kept in Sheol, or hell ( they both mean the same thing the covering place for the dead.) Abraham, Issac, Jacob all went to hell, there are two compartments Paradise and prison.

• “For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.”
• ‭‭I Peter‬ ‭3:18-22‬ ‭NKJV‬

 

[face2face]

“For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water"

• ‭‭I Peter‬ ‭3:18-22‬ ‭NKJV‬

You are quoting a section here which is rather challenging to interpret. Let's just say it's a text which challenges the most discerning of scholars and by no means can it be used flippantly to support your ethereal gusts of air wafting into the pearly gates.

I think what you have done here is merely seen the word "spirits" and made certain assumptions about its meaning. Truth is, you have just copied and pasted the text, but not given any insight to its meaning. If you are not willing to expound the text, you should think twice about your motives in pasting it (anther tip ).

1. The word "spirits" never signifies disembodied people in the Bible.
2. You realise angels who are called "spirits" in Hebrews 1:7 and they are bodily beings?
3. Lot call's them "men" in Genesis 19:1, Genesis 19:8 and Jacob wrestled with one of them in Genesis 32:24.
4. The Apostle John teaches you & I to "try the spirits" in 1 John 4:1, but in the same verse he identifies the spirits with false prophets.

that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,

It's rather easy to interpret once you understand the clever terminology being used.

"Spirits in prison" is an expression for people who are in bondage to sin and death.
Such as Isaiah 42:6,Isaiah 42:7; Isaiah 61:1; Ephesians 2:1,Ephesians 2:2

(MattG - I really hope you read each of those above verses! )

Just to be clear it's not saying Jesus when he died, went and preached to these spirits (wafts of air) in prison?

If so, what prison? Please dont say Hades

A closer look will tell you is was the Spirit of Christ in the person and faith of Noah, which preached to the spirits in prison - to those bound to the flesh and death.

F2F

 

[MatthewG]

I’m sorry brother I believe spirits that were in prison where in the prison part of Sheol or Hell (the covered place of the dead separated from God) Jesus went and preached to them when he died before resurrection.

It is nice of you to try and help me out, however I’m very firm on my beliefs.

Considering you don’t believe in immortal soul, what is it you believe about the afterlife, @face2face.

 

[face2face]

When Jesus preached 'unto the spirits in prison' quoting Isaiah 42:7 there is nothing mysterious being presented. The prisoners spoken of are those bound by sin and death. Jesus came to 'proclaim liberty to the captives and the opening of the prison to those that are bound' Isaiah 61:1 quoted in Luke 4:18.

Surely you know this to be true & right?

I'm not so interested in what you believe MattG only in what you misrepresent the Scripture to teach and once again you are doing it.

You are taking a well established OT phrase quoted multiple times in the NT and twisting it into a perverse doctrine.

In the New Testament “hell” stands for three Greek words, Hades, Gehenna, and Tartaros. Hades is the word which, in the Septuagint translation of the Old Testament Scriptures, stands for sheol. hades simply means grave.

I doubt many here would argue with that as Sheol for the Jew has always meant the grave.

 

[MatthewG]

Jesus tells a Parable that talks about Paradise and the prison part of Sheol/Hades/Hell - the covering place for the dead before the resurrection.

Luke 16
19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Always stick with Jesus he won’t lead a person astray, my friend @face2face.

 

[Lambano]

Matthew, I do not believe the soul is immortal, and I cite two scriptures:

And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna. (Matthew 10:28)

12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them; and they were judged, each one of them according to their deeds. 14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:12-15)

I understand these passages to mean that God can and will destroy the souls of those not written in the Book of Life. To state the obvious: The God who can whip up a universe from scratch Ex Nihilo and breathe life into a lump of clay is quite capable of destroying an "immortal soul".

If you believe that a soul is immortal and cannot be killed or destroyed (even by God), if you believe "second death" doesn't mean "the end of life", then you have no logical alternative to believing in eternal conscious torment of human beings in the Lake of Fire.

 

[MatthewG]

Alright thank you for sharing Lambano. Do have some questions but perhaps now is not the time. Everyone has different subjective views and my best interest shouldn’t try to impose anything on anyone as it’s not fair to the individual.

 

[face2face]

Alright thank you for sharing Lambano. Do have some questions but perhaps now is not the time. Everyone has different subjective views and my best interest shouldn’t try to impose anything on anyone as it’s not fair to the individual.

Yes, as already stated - best you go back to the text and read it carefully, rather than posting your own thoughts.

As a test MattG, just to see if you are willing to enter the Word, or not.

When Jesus preached 'unto the spirits in prison' Peter was quoting from Isaiah 42:7

Isaiah 42:7 to open blind eyes, to release prisoners from dungeons, those who live in darkness from prisons

This is figurative language for those bound to sin and death - please don't read Isaiah 42:7 literally - Jesus didn't come to break people out of Jail.

Can you see that? Or, can you only see what you want to see?

Your reply will be telling.

 

[Enoch111]

A tip for you - if you are forming beliefs on a certain subject make sure you use the strongest text to support your beliefs.

Even though you have quoted a bunch of Scriptures, you are holding to a false doctrine. No surprise.

 

[Enoch111]

Why do people not believe in the immortal soul?

While the term "immortal" has been connected to souls and spirits, the correct term is "imperishable" or "eternal". Souls are indeed imperishable, and at present there are only two destinations after death -- Heaven or Hades. And they are very much alive. All the saints (OT and NT saints who have passed on) are alive in Heaven.

However "mortality" and "immortality" apply only to the human body. Thus "mortality rates" are published for deaths. Human beings are mortal until the two resurrections (one for eternal life and one for eternal damnation). Then the bodies become immortal (cannot die).