Scripture Study of The Immortal Soul (Spirit of Man/Woman)

[BeyondET]

@Ronald David Bruno
@robert derrick

Disagree somewhat. In brief.
Natural Body’s of man begin with mankind’s seeds.
The Body develops, (law of nature, 9 mo.)
Hand of God Forms the body.
Body born, disconnected from mother’s life source, placenta.
God breaths his breath of life, (soul) into that individual.
Receipt of soul/ Gods Breath...ears hear, eyes see, etc. senses activated
* babe grows, mind gathers information from seeing, hearing, ie senses.
* mind believes, changes thoughts, learns more, believes, rejects, wonders, ponders, regularly vacillates. (And Against God).
* heart has feelings, thoughts, secret, true, regardless of what the mind thinks, and acts on.

* mind thinks, plots, plans, mommy’s not looking, go sneak a cookie, gets caught, mind thinks get mad at mommy for catching him, get more mad at mommy for scolding him. Separate child, nothing to do but think. Right to be mad at mommy? Minds thought, YES. Hearts thought, NO. Continue in separation. What is going to supersede?
Minds thoughts? Pout, be mad, mumble under breath, plot more?
Hearts thoughts? Sorry, want to be with mommy, Hugs, Behave?

*That scenario begins with toddlers. The Dividing between the Minds thoughts and Hearts thoughts Continues. (In the secular world, it it medically diagnosed as anxiety, bi-polar, depression, mental illness, etc.).
* In the Spiritual Understanding, The Dividing between the Minds thoughts and Hearts thoughts is about, Circumcision of the Heart.
* It began in the OT, men new to life, little history of experience knowledge, Foreskin circumcision. A giving of man’s token in agreement to Gods Promise.
* The foreskin was a foreshadow to circumcision of the Heart...
Deut 30:
[6] And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Later more knowledge:
Ezek 11:
[19] And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Ezek.18
[31] Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Ezek.36
[26] A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Later more knowledge;
Jesus arrives. Offered His Body, for the Life of the World. A body of man to become Spiritually Dead, Offered His Blood for forgiveness...
OF WHAT? Forgiveness of WHAT?
Having been naturally born in UNBELIEF. Having grown in UNBELIEF.
Choosing to Hear, a works, (Given measure of Faith)
Choosing to Believe what you hear, a service (receive Gods blessings)
Choosing to Repeatedly Via Jesus, Repent while learning.
And? Continue, or reject.
Continue? Option to “commit”. A service. Called Conversion.
* Repent, sorry for not having believed.
* offer body, dead (yet alive) crucified with Christ. Called a living Sacrifice. Rom 12:1
* Soul Saved, (restored) backed to Very good, as it was when given.
(Pss 23:3)
* Spirit of man? Thoughts in his natural Heart? Circumcised, cut off.
* receives, new heart, receives Gods Seed, receives Gods “Spirit of Truth” (HS, Gods Truth, In New Heart), called born again. (John 14:17)
* AND? What more can a man Do?
* his body, his soul, his spirit in his new heart, Each have become acceptable For God to claim as his adopted son.
* AND? Gods Holy Spirit with and IN that man....doing what?
* Keeping that man, WITH Him forever, BY HIS OWN POWER.
(Ie The Promise of the KING, who is true and faithful, TO put on Uncorruption on the body, on the day it is raised up, It’s soul saved, It’s spirit quickened...and Waits until, all worldly prophecy comes to pass.)
(The works of wicked men, The people making their choices, The Tribulations of God, The punishments upon men who reject Him, The Punishments upon Israel for Rejecting Jesus, The sending of 2 Hebrew Prophets, 144,000 Tribesmen to teach the Gospel to the Jews to save the Jews, and utter destruction of the Earth and it’s inhabitants who stood fast, rejecting the Lord God.)

Body is one thing. Soul is another thing. Spirit is another thing.
Each has LIFE.
Body/ Blood it’s life...must die...to be made alive.
Soul/ Gods Breath it’s life;is dead;against God; must be made restored.
Spirit/ Truth it’s life; is natural, must be cut off, made anew, Gods seed, Gods truth, born again.

Until a mans Life is MADE WHOLLY WHOLE ...body, soul, spirit, “MADE” ALIVE (passed through death, crucified, saved, born again.....
* He IS subject to Gods Anger, Gods Wrath, Gods Punishments, and the whole Point of the Last Great Tribulation of God...SEPARATING the DIVIDED, with and without the Lord God Almighty.

Glory to God,
Taken

The zinc spark at the moment of conception, signature among human eggs
The zinc spark is an inorganic signature of human egg activation | Scientific Reports

 

[Aunty Jane]

In the AV it's written as "Coats" however, ˓ôwr, ore; from 5783; skin (as naked); by impl. hide, leather:— hide, leather, skin (singular)

The Hebrew word, interpretation and tradition suggests it was a single skin (not plural) as it is in the AV.

Rather than seeking to find a pictorial example in every single thing, why not just take the scripture at face value using the rest of the verses concerning Adam and his wife? I believe that the Bible explains itself very well.

How did they know that they were "naked" when they had been naked all along and there was no shame? The Bible answers...they now had a knowledge of good and evil which apparently opened up a range of sins that nakedness can engender....they felt "shame" for the first time contemplating those new concepts. They sewed fig leaves together to cover their reproductive parts, but obviously that wasn't modest enough, so God provided garments of skin for them. It doesn't mention animals sacrificed to provide those skins, so we have no idea how God produced them, or what animals he used...it simply doesn't say. It doesn't stop people reading into scripture what is not there.

Now, what happened to them as a consequence of their disobedience? They were evicted from the garden to the untamed world outside of it.
"Thorns and thistles" would now be there to tear at naked flesh, so out of compassion God gave them garments that were protective as well as modest. Can it not be that simple?

If it was coats (plural) you would use the word kuttoneth, rendered 'coats' implies a tunic or coat (plural).

Completely irrelevant. What does it matter?

The idea, which I am not dogmatic on, and if you felt it was incidental I'm not going to debate it, is that God in making garments from a single animal (skin) is a type of Christ's sacrifice, as he is a single covering that covers many people.

Again, that is reading into scripture what is not stated.....Can you not just allow the Bible to speak for itself?

Sorry Jane, you don't have a devil in the OT...I would be interested to know what the equivalent of the Greek in Hebrew for false accuser is though? Any thoughts?

Since Jesus identified the devil as the original serpent in the garden of Eden, I'll just take that as truth that the son of God has been dealing with satan from his beginnings. Putting up with his shenanigans in even in heaven.....

"Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, 8 but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him." (Revelation 12:7-9)

We have already spoken at length about satan in the OT being "the adversary".....an adversary is an opposer....an enemy. He is there in Job chapters 1&2 boldly taking his place among the angels.

did God in keeping with His plan provide a single skin to suitably clothe both the man and his wife? The Hebrew suggests He did.

You can write your own Bible based on suggestions...how about you just read what it says?

Jane, interested in your thoughts here?
Notice the darkness preceded the light. (natural first then spiritual)
I assume you know the Jewish day starts at 6pm (or nightfall)? I'm a bit hazy on this, but I recall the Jewish night (12 hours) and day (12 hours) is considered two days. I'm sure you have a point to share

Here is a comprehensive description of the word "day" as it is used in scripture...
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200001132
Make of it what you will....

 

[BeyondET]

Rather than seeking to find a pictorial example in every single thing, why not just take the scripture at face value using the rest of the verses concerning Adam and his wife? I believe that the Bible explains itself very well.

How did they know that they were "naked" when they had been naked all along and there was no shame? The Bible answers...they now had a knowledge of good and evil which apparently opened up a range of sins that nakedness can engender....they felt "shame" for the first time contemplating those new concepts. They sewed fig leaves together to cover their reproductive parts, but obviously that wasn't modest enough, so God provided garments of skin for them. It doesn't mention animals sacrificed to provide those skins, so we have no idea how God produced them, or what animals he used...it simply doesn't say. It doesn't stop people reading into scripture what is not there.

Now, what happened to them as a consequence of their disobedience? They were evicted from the garden to the untamed world outside of it.
"Thorns and thistles" would now be there to tear at naked flesh, so out of compassion God gave them garments that were protective as well as modest. Can it not be that simple?


Completely irrelevant. What does it matter?


Again, that is reading into scripture what is not stated.....Can you not just allow the Bible to speak for itself?


Since Jesus identified the devil as the original serpent in the garden of Eden, I'll just take that as truth that the son of God has been dealing with satan from his beginnings. Putting up with his shenanigans in even in heaven.....

"Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, 8 but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him." (Revelation 12:7-9)

We have already spoken at length about satan in the OT being "the adversary".....an adversary is an opposer....an enemy. He is there in Job chapters 1&2 boldly taking his place among the angels.


You can write your own Bible based on suggestions...how about you just read what it says?



Here is a comprehensive description of the word "day" as it is used in scripture...
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200001132
Make of it what you will....

Or what animal?, why an animal could of been tree bark basically the skin of a tree, people still use it for blankets and clothes in these times. Interesting enough tree bark and human skin have a lot in common. Leaves wouldnt have been a good choice mostly water dry out and crumble lol.

A New Life for Ugandan Barkcloth, a Fabric Made From Fig Trees - Atlas Obscura

The cloth is dried in the sun, where it darkens to a ruddy brown, while the exposed trunk is wrapped in banana leaves for a few days to protect it as new bark grows, for another harvest.

Across the tropics, people worked out long ago how to transform fig tree bark into comfortable cloth—the practice could even predate weaving.

 

[face2face]

Or what animal?, why an animal could of been tree bark basically the skin of a tree, people still use it for blankets and clothes in these times. Interesting enough tree bark and human skin have a lot in common. Leaves wouldnt have been a good choice mostly water dry out and crumble lol.

A New Life for Ugandan Barkcloth, a Fabric Made From Fig Trees - Atlas Obscura

@Aunty Jane because the highest principle is "without the shedding of blood there can be no remission of sins"...which is also played out in the offerings of Cain & Able. But that also apparently is reading too much in the record ;) Psalms 130:3

 

[BeyondET]

@Aunty Jane because the highest principle is "without the shedding of blood there can be no remission of sins"...which is also played in the offerings of Cain & Able. But that also apparently is reading too much in the record ;)

Taking the bark off a tree is sacrificing it unless measures are taken to save it hehe

 

[Aunty Jane]

@Aunty Jane because the highest principle is "without the shedding of blood there can be no remission of sins"...which is also played in the offerings of Cain & Able. But that also apparently is reading too much in the record ;)

What makes you think Adam and Eve will ever see life again? Christ came to sacrifice his life for their children, born into sin through no fault on their part.....the woman was deceived, but Adam wasn't. It was he who sentenced the human race to death. (Romans 5:12) If he had not joined his wife in rebellion, a completely different outcome would have taken place.

There is no sacrifice possible for what they did....the were sinless and made selfish and deliberate choices to disobey their Sovereign, stealing something that did not belong to them. To suggest that there was a sacrifice made for them is incorrect. They made no sacrifice to God nor did they ever say a word in remorse...they just blamed someone else. They lost their spiritual lives the day they ate from the TKGE. Physical death took some time because God granted them permission to carry out his mandate to fill the earth with their offspring...it is these whom Jesus' death redeemed. God told Adam he would simply return to the dust out of which he was taken. (Genesis 3:19) They were unforgivable.

 

[face2face]

Completely irrelevant. What does it matter?

Out of interest are you the type of person who only excepts the AV in it's original form, accepting all the translation mistakes? Be good to know.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Out of interest are you the type of person who only excepts the AV in it's original form, accepting all the translation mistakes? Be good to know.

I use a range of translations but prefer the NWT. I have no preference for any archaic English versions. The AV is outdated and confusing.

 

[face2face]

What makes you think Adam and Eve will ever see life again? Christ came to sacrifice his life for their children, born into sin through no fault on their part.....the woman was deceived, but Adam wasn't. It was he who sentenced the human race to death. (Romans 5:12) If he had not joined his wife in rebellion, a completely different outcome would have taken place.

There is no sacrifice possible for what they did....the were sinless and made selfish and deliberate choices to disobey their Sovereign, stealing something that did not belong to them. To suggest that there was a sacrifice made for them is incorrect. They made no sacrifice to God nor did they ever say a word in remorse...they just blamed someone else. They lost their spiritual lives the day they ate from the TKGE. Physical death took some time because God granted them permission to carry out his mandate to fill the earth with their offspring...it is these whom Jesus's death redeemed. God told Adam he would simply return to the dust out of which he was taken. (Genesis 3:19) They were unforgivable.

Wow, Jane I've never heard of someone making that type of Judgement on them, interesting. The "what if's" are irrelevant really, but I get where you are coming from. So you believe their sin was unforgivable and they did not endeavor to worship God throughout their lives and raise a godly seed? Do you believe Able will be saved?

 

[face2face]

I use a range of translations but prefer the NWT. I have no preference for any archaic English versions. The AV is outdated and confusing.

Okay so you can see coats in the plural is not the actual Hebrew? This question is not asking you to agree with me just to see if you can accept that its in the singular?

 

[face2face]

Rather than seeking to find a pictorial example in every single thing, why not just take the scripture at face value ...

Deuteronomy 29:29

How did they know that they were "naked" when they had been naked all along and there was no shame? The Bible answers...they now had a knowledge of good and evil which apparently opened up a range of sins that nakedness can engender....they felt "shame" for the first time contemplating those new concepts. They sewed fig leaves together to cover their reproductive parts, but obviously that wasn't modest enough, so God provided garments of skin for them. It doesn't mention animals sacrificed to provide those skins, so we have no idea how God produced them, or what animals he used...it simply doesn't say. It doesn't stop people reading into scripture what is not there.

A few issues with this Jane. Firstly we know from Abels sacrifice

Genesis 4:4 But Abel brought some of the firstborn of his flock—even the fattest (or fat portions) of them. And the Lord was pleased with Abel and his offering 4:5 but with Cain and his offering he was not pleased.

This would imply that Adam & Eve trained their sons to provide the best of their offerings and in no way am I suggesting it had to be an animal, as the Law allowed for agricultural type offerings. In regards to Cain there was a problem in his heart!

Again we are not told the nature of the animal Abel provided, but we are told it was an offering.

Clearly to make skins from an animal the animal must be killed - to my knowledge its impossible to remove the skin from an animal and it still live : (also consistent with the future schedule of offerings under the Law and their principles)

1. God uses His covenant name (Yahweh Elohim) in providing the skin as per Genesis 3:21 - this is important, as it links with the covenant of promise He made with Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:15.

2. Jesus Christ is in view, the Lamb of God to provide a covering for the sin of the world (John 1:29), is also a provision of Yahweh.

3. To say Adam & Eve are unworthy of Salvation when clearly they received the Covenant of Promise, is like saying Noah, Abraham, Isaac & Jacob, Phineas, David due to their sins, were all unworthy of salvation, which I think would be a hard/fruitless line to push!

4. You would also be saying the access to the tree of life would never be opened to them regardless of how repentant they sought it.

I think it's safer Jane to leave the judgement of them to God as it's dangerous to suggest otherwise. I do think we are given better examples (and imagery) of the unforgivable, like Judas where it states "all his bowels gushed out" to mean he would not received the bowels of mercies (colossians 3:12) which is available to those who have opportunity to repent.

F2F

 

[Aunty Jane]

Wow, Jane I've never heard of someone making that type of Judgement on them, interesting. The "what if's" are irrelevant really, but I get where you are coming from. So you believe their sin was unforgivable and they did not endeavor to worship God throughout their lives and raise a godly seed? Do you believe Able will be saved?

Abel is spoken of as the first "righteous" man. He will definitely receive a resurrection....not sure about Cain...I don't think you can lie to God's face and get away with it.....?

Okay so you can see coats in the plural is not the actual Hebrew? This question is not asking you to agree with me just to see if you can accept that its in the singular?

I do not believe it is relevant. How do we know God even killed an animal to provide it?....if angels materialized fully clothed, perhaps he just materialized the garments? It doesn't say....so why bother embellishing when there is no need?

A few issues with this Jane. Firstly we know from Abels sacrifice

Genesis 4:4 But Abel brought some of the firstborn of his flock—even the fattest (or fat portions) of them. And the Lord was pleased with Abel and his offering 4:5 but with Cain and his offering he was not pleased.

This would imply that Adam & Eve trained their sons to provide the best of their offerings and in no way am I suggesting it had to be an animal, as the Law allowed for agricultural type offerings. In regards to Cain there was a problem in his heart!

Again you are trying to imply something that is not stated. Scripture hasn't got a lot to say about Adam and his wife apart from them having children....the Bible doesn't even say how many....after Seth, they had "sons and daughters". (Genesis 5:1-5) You get the impression that God really wasn't impressed with either of them.

Again we are not told the nature of the animal Abel provided, but we are told it was an offering.

They are the first ones said to make offerings to God. Since Abel is called a "shepherd", it was most likely a lamb or a goat. If the Bible doesnt say...its not important.

Clearly to make skins from an animal the animal must be killed - to my knowledge its impossible to remove the skin from an animal and it still live : (also consistent with the future schedule of offerings under the Law and their principles)

God did not have laws before Israel was a nation, though God's servants seemed to know right from wrong without them.
We do not know what the Bible does not tell us.....if it was important God would tell us......

1. God uses His covenant name (Yahweh Elohim) in providing the skin as per Genesis 3:21 - this is important, as it links with the covenant of promise He made with Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:15.

What makes you think this is a covenant? It is the Bible's first prophesy. No one really understood what it meant and who the players were until Jesus came and holy spirit revealed what it was all about.

2. Jesus Christ is in view, the Lamb of God to provide a covering for the sin of the world (John 1:29), is also a provision of Yahweh.

Yes....featured in the Passover celebration of the Jews up until Christ's death.

3. To say Adam & Eve are unworthy of Salvation when clearly they received the Covenant of Promise, is like saying Noah, Abraham, Isaac & Jacob, Phineas, David due to their sins, were all unworthy of salvation, which I think would be a hard/fruitless line to push!

All of Adam's children were covered by the sacrifices made in Israel, under God's direction until Christ came and redeemed them all permanently......but Adam and Eve were the ones responsible for Christ having to offer his life for them in the first place....they had no sin nature to blame and hence are not covered. The murderer gets the death penalty not the reward of life. The other ones you mentioned were not sinners but faithful ones who merit God's forgiveness through Christ.

4. You would also be saying the access to the tree of life would never be opened to them regardless of how repentant they sought it.

You're not listening....it was God who denied access to the tree of life because it was there to give his mortal human children everlasting life. No sinner could partake of the tree of life because no sinner could ever be granted everlasting life. Don't you get it? The trees of life are not mentioned again until Revelation when redeemed mankind can again partake of them. (Revelation 22:1-2)

I think it's safer Jane to leave the judgement of them to God as it's dangerous to suggest otherwise. I do think we are given better examples (and imagery) of the unforgivable, like Judas where it states "all his bowels gushed out" to mean he would not received the bowels of mercies (colossians 3:12) which is available to those who have opportunity to repent.

Are you serious? "bowels of mercy"

Oh dear, put away that old KJV and get yourself a modern English translation....who on earth would use such an expression today?
In Judas' case he fell headlong after he hanged himself and his intestines burst out of his body on impact. Nothing to do with forgiveness for Adam and his wife. We can see from the scriptures that Adam went back to where he came from....there is no mention of him ever living again.

Genesis 3:17-19....
"And to Adam he said: “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, ‘You must not eat from it,’ cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life. 18 It will grow thorns and thistles for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field. 19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”
Here we see that Adam lived in a cursed state until he died. His return to the dust was permanent....the Bible does not say otherwise.

 

[face2face]

Abel is spoken of as the first "righteous" man. He will definitely receive a resurrection....not sure about Cain...I don't think you can lie to God's face and get away with it.....?

Correct of Abel. (You attribute no training of Abel to his parents?)

Cain is used in Scripture as "the way of Cain" or the way of the flesh. Jude 11 He is characterized in Scripture this way because he deceived, murdered and lied (attributes of our nature).

It's rather sad because Cain is likened to the Jews who crucified the Lord whereas Jesus is likened to Abel.
(Matthew 23:35).

I like the connection, it's a beautiful lesson, one stating that "Christ's blood speaks to better things than that of Abel" Hebrews 12:24.

Abel's blood cried out for vengeance but Christ's blood cries out for mercy on those who base their faith in it (his life).

Abel's blood, though that of a righteous man as per Matthew 23:35 it cannot atone, but Christ's blood is ever efficacious (1 John 1:7)

God is always teaching Jane, asking us to look deeper into His Word & Works to show us His Wisdom.

Abels offerings would later be formulated as Law, to bring the nation to Christ Numbers 18:15-17. (firstborn of his flock!)

I do not believe it is relevant. How do we know God even killed an animal to provide it?....if angels materialized fully clothed, perhaps he just materialized the garments? It doesn't say....so why bother embellishing when there is no need?

I see this comment more as you trying to be difficult as you well know God always provides a sacrifice to atone sin but as I said God was showing them how he would deal with sin...an idea which is gradually revealed over time until we get to Christ as our covering or garment. Revelation 3:17 a warning!

Again you are trying to imply something that is not stated. Scripture hasn't got a lot to say about Adam and his wife apart from them having children....the Bible doesn't even say how many....after Seth, they had "sons and daughters". (Genesis 5:1-5) You get the impression that God really wasn't impressed with either of them.

I will leave this until I deal with the Covenant in Eden below

They are the first ones said to make offerings to God. Since Abel is called a "shepherd", it was most likely a lamb or a goat. If the Bible doesnt say...its not important.

Correct whats important is Abel understood the shedding of blood principle which would later be revealed to Moses Leviticus 17:14

God did not have laws before Israel was a nation, though God's servants seemed to know right from wrong without them.
We do not know what the Bible does not tell us.....if it was important God would tell us......

Plenty of commandments though.

What makes you think this is a covenant? It is the Bible's first prophesy. No one really understood what it meant and who the players were until Jesus came and holy spirit revealed what it was all about.

So I assume you would know there are 3 main covenants of promise which relate to our redemption.
1 God concerning Adam & Eve & the serpent in Eden
2 Abraham (confirmed to Isaac & Jacob)
3 David

If you haven't studied the Covenant in Eden, it might be preferred to leave that for another thread. It's a very enlightening section!

Yes....featured in the Passover celebration of the Jews up until Christ's death.

Correct - 1 Corinthians 5:7

All of Adam's children were covered by the sacrifices made in Israel, under God's direction until Christ came and redeemed them all permanently......but Adam and Eve were the ones responsible for Christ having to offer his life for them in the first place....they had no sin nature to blame and hence are not covered. The murderer gets the death penalty not the reward of life. The other ones you mentioned were not sinners but faithful ones who merit God's forgiveness through Christ.

This is really wrong Jane, because every text concerning Christs redeeming work includes Adam & Eve. As Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:47 they had the same nature as us...by necessity!

That's what the Scripture is revealing to you in Eve temptation

"That the tree was good for food" = The lust of the flesh aroused. 1 John 2:16
"And that it was pleasant to the eyes" — The "lust of the eyes." "a desire to the eyes". 1 John 2:16
"And a tree to be desired to make one wise" — The pride of life 1 John 2:16

(I dont see any value in debating their nature, as it's incidental - they were tempted, as we are, and sinned, as we do!)

You're not listening....it was God who denied access to the tree of life because it was there to give his mortal human children everlasting life. No sinner could partake of the tree of life because no sinner could ever be granted everlasting life. Don't you get it? The trees of life are not mentioned again until Revelation when redeemed mankind can again partake of them. (Revelation 22:1-2)

I agree with the above entirely. It reads as though eating of this tree in a sinful state implies an eternal sinner which God would never allow. This is also why its impossible for Angels who behold God face to face and have His Divine nature cannot sin! Impossible!!!

Red text is incorrect - Proverbs 3:18 which is a stunning study on Wisdom (wont go into that now)

Are you serious? "bowels of mercy"

Oh dear, put away that old KJV and get yourself a modern English translation....who on earth would use such an expression today?

LOL, I know, but the connection to literal bowels is just to tempting to quote the AV.

Hebrews have long seen the bowels as the seat of the tenderer affections, kindness, benevolence and compassion. Hence why its translated, tender mercy, or compassion in modern translations.

In Judas' case he fell headlong after he hanged himself and his intestines burst out of his body on impact. Nothing to do with forgiveness for Adam and his wife. We can see from the scriptures that Adam went back to where he came from....there is no mention of him ever living again.

Yes, he awaits the resurrection, as do all those who have gone before us who are responsible and sinned!

Genesis 3:17-19....
"And to Adam he said: “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, ‘You must not eat from it,’ cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life. 18 It will grow thorns and thistles for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field. 19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”
Here we see that Adam live in a cursed state until he died. His return to the dust was permanent....the Bible does not say otherwise.

Correct and you will suffer the same fate as Adam.

Also Jane you must remember and this is not a golden rule but when a person is said to be a type of the Lord Jesus Christ its very difficult for you to say he wont be saved.

Romans 5:14 Yet death reigned from Adam until Moses even over those who did not sin in the same way that Adam (who is a type of the coming one (Jesus Christ) transgressed.

Also

So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living person” (like you!) ; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit (we will never be this!).

Like I said a brave (or foolish) woman to say a type of the Lord Jesus Christ wont be saved.

 

[robert derrick]

Why do people not believe in the immortal soul?

Because they don't want to.

All faith is a choice.

We hear something, and we either believe it or not. It's always our own choice.

So, the next question is why do any souls not want to believe they are immortal beings, but mortal bodies only.

This includes those that give lip service to being souls, but not immortal, which is the same as rejecting souls and being mortal bodies only.

 

[robert derrick]

The soul (spirit of Man/Woman) is composed of (mind/will/emotion) of an individual that is housed inside of a body - that is formed in the womb of the woman, that is created by God (of course some factors of what a person does to their body while pregnant does cause some problems during creation of the baby inside of the womb.)

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The natural man rejects having a soul, but is only given to the natural things of this life that can be seen, heard, touched, felt, etc...They do not give God the glory for having a spirit created which thinks, intends, and imagines, and is the only difference on earth between man, being made in God's image, and the rest of the living creatures and beasts of the field.

Natural men includes those who give lip-service to having a soul, but deny the soul is immortal. Their glorying of God is in word only.

The soul (spirit of Man/Woman) is composed of (mind/will/emotion) of an individual that is housed inside of a body - that is formed in the womb of the woman, that is created by God (of course some factors of what a person does to their body while pregnant does cause some problems during creation of the baby inside of the womb.)

The immortal souls are made living and good by Christ in the lowest parts of the earth, and breathed into a mortal body of flesh formed by Christ for man, the first being of the dust, the second being of the bone of Adam, and now all mortal bodies being made of the flesh of the woman's womb, including Jesus', which was by the mortal seed of David.

The soul is the life and feeling of man, where is the heart of choosing good or evil, while the spirit is intelligence within the mind of man, called the mind of the spirit, and is lighted by the true Light of Christ coming into the world.

All souls are made immortal, living, and good by Christ, and all spirits of man, as with the angels, are made clean in the beginning. Man is made a little lower than the angels by being housed in mortal flesh, not by being created any less intelligent in spirit and mind.

By sinning from the youth, men separate themselves from Christ to be spiritually dead and unsound of mind. Being born again by the faith of Jesus, we are made alive again as newborn babes in the beginning, though not again from the womb, and our minds are renewed in the Light and soundness of Jesus Christ.

The race and fight is to not sin again against God as before, by now resisting the devil and casting down his thoughts appearing in our renewed and pure minds.

We keep our souls from sinning by continually cleansing our pure minds from any filthiness of the spirit for the flesh.

Accordingly to scripture - souls live on in the afterlife ; before Jesus Christ and his return souls (or the spirit of man/woman) would reside in Sheol (the covering place of the dead - those who had died and passed away on earth.)

These scriptures make it clear that the soul (spirit of man) continues on after this life that soul is a part of you as a person now today. There are two destinations in my best estimation today, for people to go to that is the Heavenly Realm - being outside of the Kingdom having died not being a child of or a Son or Daughter of God. The second or first however you decide to apply this is in the new Heavenly Jerusalem where God resides inside of the the new spiritual city, according to Revelation 22.

Before Jesus' going to preach to the spirits in prison after His bodily death on the cross, all souls woke up either in burning hell or in Abraham's bosom, being held captive until the resurrection of Christ.

Now all souls either wake up in burning hell or in the presence of the Lord at His altar in heaven. (Rev 6)

With His return will be the first resurrection of the dead into resurrected immortal spiritual bodies and with perfected spirits and minds, in the likeness of Jesus' resurrection, That is only for them remaining pure in soul and heart at the end of this life on earth.

The rest of the dead will not live again until the great judgement, to either be found written in the Lamb's book of life, or be cast with hell and death and the devil into the lake of fire.

I personally believe the lake of fire is the old burning earth and wandering stars of the old heaven, that have fled from the face of Him on the throne, which is reserved specifically for the hypocrites that name Jesus and depart not from their sinning and iniquity.

These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

 

[ChristisGod]

What makes you think Adam and Eve will ever see life again? Christ came to sacrifice his life for their children, born into sin through no fault on their part.....the woman was deceived, but Adam wasn't. It was he who sentenced the human race to death. (Romans 5:12) If he had not joined his wife in rebellion, a completely different outcome would have taken place.

There is no sacrifice possible for what they did....the were sinless and made selfish and deliberate choices to disobey their Sovereign, stealing something that did not belong to them. To suggest that there was a sacrifice made for them is incorrect. They made no sacrifice to God nor did they ever say a word in remorse...they just blamed someone else. They lost their spiritual lives the day they ate from the TKGE. Physical death took some time because God granted them permission to carry out his mandate to fill the earth with their offspring...it is these whom Jesus' death redeemed. God told Adam he would simply return to the dust out of which he was taken. (Genesis 3:19) They were unforgivable.

Genesis 3:21
Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Lambano]

Are you serious? "bowels of mercy"

Oh dear, put away that old KJV and get yourself a modern English translation....who on earth would use such an expression today?

LOL, I know, but the connection to literal bowels is just to tempting to quote the AV.

Hebrews have long seen the bowels as the seat of the tenderer affections, kindness, benevolence and compassion. Hence why its translated, tender mercy, or compassion in modern translations.

I'm going to write to the Marketing folks at Hallmark Greeting Cards and suggest they adopt this ancient tradition. Next year's Valentine's Day cards, instead of displaying little red hearts, will depict the lower intestine.

 

[face2face]

I'm going to write to the Marketing folks at Hallmark Greeting Cards and suggest they adopt this ancient tradition. Next year's Valentine's Day cards, instead of displaying little red hearts, will depict the lower intestine.

Love it! Please get them to send me a sample card to try out.
.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Genesis 3:21
Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

hope this helps !!!

Well that was deep.....how does that “help” to address my post in any way?

 

[Aunty Jane]

God is always teaching Jane, asking us to look deeper into His Word & Works to show us His Wisdom.

Indeed, but some of us are taking a microscope to words and attributing meaning to them that never existed except in the workings of their own imagination....and therein lies the problem. We are told NOT to go beyond what is written”. It’s good advice.

Correct whats important is Abel understood the shedding of blood principle which would later be revealed to Moses Leviticus 17:14

We have only scant information about the practice of blood sacrifice in pre-Israelite history until we see the request of God to Abraham to sacrifice his beloved son. That was the first indication of God’s intention to sacrifice his son, though at that time the connection was not known. It introduced the idea however.

We have hints in Noah’s instruction to include 7 of the “clean” animals, but only 2 of the “unclean” creatures, which God himself brought to Noah before the flood. Since humans were not consumers of flesh until after Noah came out of the ark, the “clean” animals were “ clean” for sacrifice, not eating. There were no creature at that time that were forbidden to be eaten (Genesis 9:3-4)....that came later in the laws given to Israel.

So I assume you would know there are 3 main covenants of promise which relate to our redemption.
1 God concerning Adam & Eve & the serpent in Eden
2 Abraham (confirmed to Isaac & Jacob)
3 David

If you haven't studied the Covenant in Eden, it might be preferred to leave that for another thread. It's a very enlightening section!

There are more than three covenants that God made and Genesis 3:15 is not a covenant. It is a prophesy that was not clearly understood until Christ came......it is addressed to the serpent....
“And I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your offspring and her offspring. He will crush your head, and you will strike him in the heel.”

So who were the players in this prophesy given right after the fall in Eden? Where do you see mention of a covenant?
Who is the serpent? Who is the woman? Who are their offspring? And how is the enmity between them demonstrated? How does the offspring of the woman crush the head of the serpent, and how does the serpent inflict a heel wound?
Do you know?