Scripture Study of The Immortal Soul (Spirit of Man/Woman)

[Aunty Jane]

This is really wrong Jane, because every text concerning Christs redeeming work includes Adam & Eve. As Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:47 they had the same nature as us...by necessity!

No I’m sorry but it doesn’t. There is no redemption for Adam and his wife. Perfect creatures (which God created to be) are without defect and do not make mistakes...they make deliberate choices. This is why they are unforgivable.....and why no salvation is ever mentioned for them.....their return to the dust is permanent.

That's what the Scripture is revealing to you in Eve temptation

"That the tree was good for food" = The lust of the flesh aroused. 1 John 2:16
"And that it was pleasant to the eyes" — The "lust of the eyes." "a desire to the eyes". 1 John 2:16
"And a tree to be desired to make one wise" — The pride of life 1 John 2:16

(I dont see any value in debating their nature, as it's incidental - they were tempted, as we are, and sinned, as we do!)

No again.....what the serpent appealed to was self-interest...the very thing that had led this once perfect creature to commit sin himself. He knew what temptation could do to a free willed creature....plant the idea and allow them to run with it.

Perfect humans were led to commit sin of their own volition.....he did not force them to sin but tempted them to disobey their God by misusing their gift......free will was then turned into a curse and the misuse of free will has plagued the human race ever since. Every single woe perpetrated on human kind has the abuse of free will at its source. So was it a mistake on God’s part to grant it?
What do you think?

It reads as though eating of this tree in a sinful state implies an eternal sinner which God would never allow. This is also why its impossible for Angels who behold God face to face and have His Divine nature cannot sin! Impossible!!!

To allow access to “the tree of life” in a sinful state would have resulted in much more disaster than God was willing to permit. Imagine all the powerful despots down through history who ruled with tyranny, violence and bloodshed, if they never died! Aren’t we grateful that they did?

Red text is incorrect - Proverbs 3:18 which is a stunning study on Wisdom (wont go into that now)

What is that scripture saying in context?
Proverbs 3:11-18...
“My son, do not reject the discipline of Jehovah,
And do not loathe his reproof,
12 For those whom Jehovah loves he reproves,
Just as a father does a son in whom he delights.
13 Happy is the man who finds wisdom
And the man who acquires discernment;
14 To gain it is better than gaining silver,
And having it as profit is better than having gold.
15 It is more precious than corals;
Nothing you desire can compare to it.
16 Long life is in its right hand;
Riches and glory are in its left hand.
17 Its ways are pleasant,
And all its paths are peaceful.
18 It is a tree of life to those who take hold of it,
And those who keep firm hold of it will be called happy.”

Never quote a verse out of context unless the verse itself is a clear statement. Do you see what the reference to the “tree of life” means here? What study you have done on this, if it leads you to any other conclusion, it is in vain. How is godly wisdom a “tree of life” to those who embrace it? Not rocket science is it?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Yes, he awaits the resurrection, as do all those who have gone before us who are responsible and sinned!

No again, sorry....Judas is called “the son of destruction” by Jesus, and will never see life again, having sinned against the Holy Spirit. He was among the apostles to whom it was granted to display the gifts of healing and resurrection performed with the power of God’s spirit by the mention of Jesus name. He will not live again. He will have joined the Pharisees in “Gehenna”.....those who also saw the activities of the Holy Spirit in Jesus and denied them. When they heard about the resurrection of Lazarus, they plotted to kill them both. Lazarus was a thief so he was a prime target for the devil....temptation again.

Also Jane you must remember and this is not a golden rule but when a person is said to be a type of the Lord Jesus Christ its very difficult for you to say he wont be saved.

Romans 5:14 Yet death reigned from Adam until Moses even over those who did not sin in the same way that Adam (who is a type of the coming one (Jesus Christ) transgressed.

I have no idea where this notion comes from...except to say that you are putting your own spin on scripture and then wondering why people disagree with you......Jesus is the anti-type...the very opposite of what Adam was...the only way he was like Adam was in his sinlessness....but certainly not in his actions or his attitude. Adam caved in to temptation...Jesus did not. Polar opposites.

Also

So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living person” (like you!) ; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit (we will never be this!).

Like I said a brave (or foolish) woman to say a type of the Lord Jesus Christ wont be saved.

Or someone who knows what scripture teaches because she studies with a brotherhood who all believe the same thing. The truth of scripture cannot be contained in one person who has taken it upon themselves to interpret the Bible on their own.
The scripture you quoted above means something important to Christ’s elect who have lived in the flesh like Jesus and will die as he did......but there is a promise in that verse whereby these ones will also be raised in the same form that Jesus was....in a spirit body...”born again” as the same person, but in a different body.

With you, it is error upon error because you have no real idea of what is truth. You deny most of what scripture teaches about the devil and why we are in this mess. There is a big picture but for the life of me I cannot see any of it in what you post.

I’m sorry, but someone who instructs themselves has a fool for a teacher. God has always provided teachers for his people.....there were never any ‘lone rangers’ trying desperately to convince others of something that came out of their own head......do you understand this. You are out on a limb because you have put yourself there....dangling helplessly with no one to support you.....would Jesus do that to you? Do you think he doesn’t notice your sincerity? What do you think he is waiting for?

How long you dangle there will depend on whether you can learn from others, humble enough to know the truth when you hear it...especially when it disagrees with what you want to believe.....please don’t be offended by what I say...we Aussie’s are not as thin skinned as others, so I feel I can be brutally honest with you. I like your zeal but I believe it is completely misdirected and because you have formulated your own conclusions, everything you have built on a faulty foundation will just be more error.

Let me know if you want a Bible study......LOL.

 

[face2face]

There are more than three covenants that God made and Genesis 3:15 is not a covenant. It is a prophesy that was not clearly understood until Christ came......it is addressed to the serpent....
“And I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your offspring and her offspring. He will crush your head, and you will strike him in the heel.”

So who were the players in this prophesy given right after the fall in Eden? Where do you see mention of a covenant?
Who is the serpent? Who is the woman? Who are their offspring? And how is the enmity between them demonstrated? How does the offspring of the woman crush the head of the serpent, and how does the serpent inflict a heel wound?
Do you know?

Yes, I know there are more than three covenants though I am puzzled why you cant see Genesis 3:15 as a covenant.

Can you see the change in dominion?

 

[face2face]

No I’m sorry but it doesn’t. There is no redemption for Adam and his wife. Perfect creatures (which God created to be) are without defect and do not make mistakes...they make deliberate choices. This is why they are unforgivable.....and why no salvation is ever mentioned for them.....their return to the dust is permanent.

Let's move on from this as it's painting you in a poor light and does nothing for your understanding of God's word/mercy.

To allow access to “the tree of life” in a sinful state would have resulted in much more disaster than God was willing to permit. Imagine all the powerful despots down through history who ruled with tyranny, violence and bloodshed, if they never died! Aren’t we grateful that they did?

Oh but God is willing for a perfect divine angel to sin? That was a stumble by you Jane!

What is that scripture saying in context?
Proverbs 3:11-18...
“My son, do not reject the discipline of Jehovah,
And do not loathe his reproof,
12 For those whom Jehovah loves he reproves,
Just as a father does a son in whom he delights.
13 Happy is the man who finds wisdom
And the man who acquires discernment;
14 To gain it is better than gaining silver,
And having it as profit is better than having gold.
15 It is more precious than corals;
Nothing you desire can compare to it.
16 Long life is in its right hand;
Riches and glory are in its left hand.
17 Its ways are pleasant,
And all its paths are peaceful.
18 It is a tree of life to those who take hold of it,
And those who keep firm hold of it will be called happy.”

Never quote a verse out of context unless the verse itself is a clear statement. Do you see what the reference to the “tree of life” means here? What study you have done on this, if it leads you to any other conclusion, it is in vain. How is godly wisdom a “tree of life” to those who embrace it? Not rocket science is it?

Correct, wisdom is the tree of life as the tree represents the Lord Jesus Christ (Word of Life) - Dont you know we figuratively partake now of the tree of life in consuming the Word of Yahweh now (Proverbs 3:18) in anticipation of the future when the approved will "eat" of the Tree of Life by being granted immortality, and living forever by it?

Wow Jane this astounds me you dont understand the imagery here!

"keep firm hold of it!"

 

[face2face]

No again, sorry....Judas is called “the son of destruction” by Jesus, and will never see life again, having sinned against the Holy Spirit. He was among the apostles to whom it was granted to display the gifts of healing and resurrection performed with the power of God’s spirit by the mention of Jesus name. He will not live again. He will have joined the Pharisees in “Gehenna”.....those who also saw the activities of the Holy Spirit in Jesus and denied them. When they heard about the resurrection of Lazarus, they plotted to kill them both. Lazarus was a thief so he was a prime target for the devil....temptation again.

Sorry Jane I am not God and dont have the arrogance to say who he will raise for judgement and who He will leave in the ground. Luke 13:28-29

I have no idea where this notion comes from...except to say that you are putting your own spin on scripture and then wondering why people disagree with you......Jesus is the anti-type...the very opposite of what Adam was...the only way he was like Adam was in his sinlessness....but certainly not in his actions or his attitude. Adam caved in to temptation...Jesus did not. Polar opposites.

Adam represents all humanity end of story.

Or someone who knows what scripture teaches because she studies with a brotherhood who all believe the same thing. The truth of scripture cannot be contained in one person who has taken it upon themselves to interpret the Bible on their own.
The scripture you quoted above means something important to Christ’s elect who have lived in the flesh like Jesus and will die as he did......but there is a promise in that verse whereby these ones will also be raised in the same form that Jesus was....in a spirit body...”born again” as the same person, but in a different body.

With you, it is error upon error because you have no real idea of what is truth. You deny most of what scripture teaches about the devil and why we are in this mess. There is a big picture but for the life of me I cannot see any of it in what you post.

The error is with you Jane.

In one post you say Adam & Eve cant partake of the tree of life in their sinful state only to turn around and say "but hey immortal eternal beings can sin!"

Your confused and your doctrine makes no sense!

You also make God's divine decree that the Wages of Sin is death an absolute joke!
If divine angels sin then they corrupt and die as per His Righteous judgement, but you cannot reconcile this because your belief is false. (though we will watch you try)

I’m sorry, but someone who instructs themselves has a fool for a teacher. God has always provided teachers for his people.....there were never any ‘lone rangers’ trying desperately to convince others of something that came out of their own head......do you understand this. You are out on a limb because you have put yourself there....dangling helplessly with no one to support you.....would Jesus do that to you? Do you think he doesn’t notice your sincerity? What do you think he is waiting for?

How long you dangle there will depend on whether you can learn from others, humble enough to know the truth when you hear it...especially when it disagrees with what you want to believe.....please don’t be offended by what I say...we Aussie’s are not as thin skinned as others, so I feel I can be brutally honest with you. I like your zeal but I believe it is completely misdirected and because you have formulated your own conclusions, everything you have built on a faulty foundation will just be more error.

Let me know if you want a Bible study......LOL.

Boy, you keep playing the same song over and over. You never give ground, or acknowledge sound Bible truth even when its provided over and over. I thought by now you would soften a little but the hardness keeps coming Jane - like those callous judgements against Adam & Eve - you have a lot to learn!

Maybe start with admitting when you are wrong i.e the tree of life in Proverbs 3!

 

[face2face]

In Genesis we are told "the way" to the Tree of Life was "kept" by a sword . The "way" relates to the way of life. Now this "way" is frequently spoken of throughout the Word.

"they shall keep the way" (Genesis 18:19)
they "corrupted His way" (Genesis 6:12)
show me now thy way" (Exodus 33:13)
"teach His way" (Psalms 25:9)
"the way of holiness" (Isaiah 35:8)
"the way of Yahweh" (Isaiah 40:3)
"the way of understanding" (Isaiah 40:14)
"a way for the ransomed" (Isaiah 51:10)
"the way of peace" (Isaiah 59:8)

Posted this to show others "the way" is available now, its fruits will be immortality to all who are found worthy.

Sorry, I should also add the NT loves to remind us of "the way"

Acts of the Apostles 9:2; Acts of the Apostles 16:17; Acts of the Apostles 19:9, Acts of the Apostles 19:23; Acts of the Apostles 22:4

 

[face2face]

Sorry Jane, I also omitted the Tree of Life is also referenced in Proverbs 15:4 speaking of the tongue of the righteous.

Speech that heals is like a life-giving tree, but a perverse tongue breaks the spirit.

Heb "Tree of life"....all leading us to the actual Truth, that there is no such thing as immortal souls, but those who seek the way now (Romans 2:7) will be lead to life eternal (1 Peter 1:23-25)

 

[Aunty Jane]

The error is with you Jane.

In one post you say Adam & Eve cant partake of the tree of life in their sinful state only to turn around and say "but hey immortal eternal beings can sin!"

I don't recall saying that immortal beings can sin.....if that is a reference to angels then I'm sorry that you believe that they are immortal.
Like humans, although living in a different realm, angels are not immortal, but have to obey their Creator in order to keep living just like we do.
In the end all disobedient ones will perish....no matter if they are spirit or human.....death is death....the absence of life. God can terminate life forever.

Your confused and your doctrine makes no sense!

It does make perfect sense but not when you have twisted everything to accommodate your own version of everything. Who appointed you as the arbiter of what is truth? My truth is not your truth, but at the very least it is shared by a brotherhood which is united and global and engaged in "preaching the good news of God's kingdom" in every nation on earth.....(Matthew 24:14) "The end" is coming but where are we all standing? Jesus will let us know. Are you ready?

You also make God's divine decree that the Wages of Sin is death an absolute joke!
If divine angels sin then they corrupt and die as per His Righteous judgement, but you cannot reconcile this because your belief is false. (though we will watch you try)

I don't need to try.....the Bible confirms that satan and his angels will be in a state of complete inactivity whilst Jesus brings mankind back to the perfect, sinless state that Adam once enjoyed. And then, after one final test, (Revelation 20:1-3) satan and his angels will join the wicked in "the lake of fire".
John 3:16.....“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed [perish] but have everlasting life."

Do you see what happens to those who fail to exercise faith in Christ?
Matthew 10:41...These are the "goats"....
“Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels."
There it is.....complete annihilation for the wicked and those wicked spirits who led them into it....all receive the same punishment.

It is of no use speaking with you further, because even when scripture tells you point blank that what you believe is not supported....you cannot contemplate for one moment that you might be wrong......you remain alone...out on a limb that you yourself have created.

I tried.....bye.

 

[face2face]

although living in a different realm, angels are not immortal, but have to obey their Creator in order to keep living just like we do.

My O my, where on earth did you get this fanciful story? Have you written your own Bible?

I don't need to try.....the Bible confirms that satan and his angels will be in a state of complete inactivity whilst Jesus brings mankind back to the perfect, sinless state that Adam once enjoyed. And then, after one final test, (Revelation 20:1-3) they all join the wicked in "the lake of fire".
John 3:16.....“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed [perish] but have everlasting life."

Come on Jane! Do I need to unpack this imagery as well? Surely by now you have learned something from what I have shown you?

Do you see what happens to those who fail to exercise faith in Christ?
Matthew 10:41...These are the "goats"....
“Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels."
There it is.....complete annihilation for the wicked and those wicked spirits who led them into it....all receive the same punishment.

It is of no use speaking with you further, because even when scripture tells you point blank that what you believe is not supported....you cannot contemplate for one moment that you might be wrong......you remain alone...out on a limb that you yourself have created.

I tried.....bye.

You can see the issue I have with you Jane - not once have you given ground on anything I've said - in your eyes, every single point in all our discussions has been wrong and yet you expect me to labour in unpacking the imagery being adopted in your verses full well knowing you only believe what you community tells you to believe.

Yeah...that's it!

 

[face2face]

Dear Christians,

God is not about eternal torment for those found unworthy of life. He just isn't that God! The punishment is everlasting, Absolutely! but it is not a conscious eternal torment of those unworthy of Christ.

Death vs. Life

Matthew 25:46 And these will depart into eternal punishment (death), but the righteous into eternal life.

Matt 25 NWT These will depart into everlasting cutting-off (death), but the righteous ones into everlasting life.

This verse can speak to 2 possibilities

1. An imaginary place of eternal fire and evil darkness
2. The permanency of the grave

Jesus taught in John 15:6 the cut off branches are totally consumed!
Daniel 12:2 cmp John 5:29 speaks of condemnation to those not worthy, but this just their response to judgement. (outer darkness imagery of the grave) Matthew 8:12 again, torment while they are alive at the judgement but not eternally! also Matthew 13:30

I mean even the Apostle Paul states those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus "shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power." (2 Thessalonians 1:9)

Would the Christian believe those who turn away from hearing the Good News are going to be tortured forever in a place of fire? What type of sick individual are you to think this is what the Word of God is saying?

Put these text against the many passages which teach that the ungodly and wicked will be destroyed or perish, such 1 Thessalonians 4:13 John 3:16 2 Thessalonians 1:9 you simply see the language being adopted is severe as the judgement is severe and the consequences of not responding favorably to God's invitation is serious but surely we have smarter and wiser Christians here to believe in fanciful notions of men!

Nowhere do we see a literal abode of eternal fire; yes we see death spoken of as being permanent through its powerful imagery, but nowhere in the Bible are we told where this literal place of fire is, how it came to be, or why its even been created. It's fanciful man made notions which are attached to words that actually carry a literal meaning...in this case the grave is place of final judgement.

I actually like the NWT version which uses the idea of everlasting cutting off. The Psalmist said they would be "cut off" in Psalms 37:9 and "shall not be" Psalms 37:10.

Malachi teaches that the wicked will be burnt like stubble leaving them "neither root nor branch" in Malachi 4:1 like "ashes" to be trodden under foot. Malachi 4:3.

This is not the kind of language we would expect to see immortal souls in torment for eternity.

And recall - no one in this forum is yet to show me a disembodied person!

F2F

 

[CadyandZoe]

@Enoch111 even though we see differently at least your someone believes that God has a place somewhere for people to go… it seems some here have no hope or they are unsure of where people go in general it is very disappointing and sad.

@CadyandZoe will people be raised up out of their graves when that happens? Would it believers only to you or unbelievers or both? Please feel free to share your thoughts.

The Bible teaches a general resurrection of the dead. (Refer to Revelation 20:11-15) The righteous dead are resurrected at the coming of Jesus Christ. (Refer to 1Thessalonians 4:13-18)

 

[CadyandZoe]

Looks like you have become a cultist. Good luck with that.

Looks like you favor accusation rather than evidence. A follower of Jesus wouldn't treat a brother that way.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Why do people not believe in the immortal soul? The soul (spirit of Man/Woman) is composed of (mind/will/emotion) of an individual that is housed inside of a body - that is formed in the womb of the woman, that is created by God (of course some factors of what a person does to their body while pregnant does cause some problems during creation of the baby inside of the womb.)

• Ecclesiastes 12:7 And the dust returneth to the earth as it was, And the spirit returneth to God who gave it.

• Matthew 10:28 And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.

• Luke 12:20 `And God said to him, Unthinking one! this night thy soul they shall require from thee, and what things thou didst prepare -- to whom shall they be?

• 1 Corinthians 15:54 and when this corruptible may have put on incorruption, and this mortal may have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, `The Death was swallowed up -- to victory;

• Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, and the souls of those who have been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus, and because of the word of God, and who did not bow before the beast, nor his image, and did not receive the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand, and they did live and reign with Christ the thousand years;

Accordingly to scripture - souls live on in the afterlife ; before Jesus Christ and his return souls (or the spirit of man/woman) would reside in Sheol (the covering place of the dead - those who had died and passed away on earth.)

These scriptures make it clear that the soul (spirit of man) continues on after this life that soul is a part of you as a person now today. There are two destinations in my best estimation today, for people to go to that is the Heavenly Realm - being outside of the Kingdom having died not being a child of or a Son or Daughter of God. The second or first however you decide to apply this is in the new Heavenly Jerusalem where God resides inside of the the new spiritual city, according to Revelation 22.

• Revelation 22:14-15
• 14 `Happy are those doing His commands that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city;
• 15 and without [are] the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the whoremongers, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one who is loving and is doing a lie.

No scripture contradicts another scripture. Here you're reasoning shows that you contradict how God created the first man, Adam at, Genesis 2:7. This scripture shows us that God took dust from the ground and formed it into a flesh and blood human body and then blew the breath of life (spirit) into that flesh and blood human body and that flesh and blood human body became a living soul or living person. So anyone who's saying it's the breath of life(spirit) separately, all on it's own, without the flesh and blood human body is what makes a living soul or living person without that flesh and blood human body, is no longer going by scripture. Scripture shows man is a soul and is mortal not immortal. The animals are souls just as humans are souls. What I mean by that is that God created the animals as living souls or living animals by taking dust from the ground and forming that dust into a flesh and blood animal body then blowing the breath of life(spirit) into that flesh and blood animal body and those animals became living souls or living animals. The same breath of life(spirit) that's in humans is also in animals, so just as the the animals are mortal and die so do humans die. The animals are not immortal and so humans are not immortal. The difference between animals and humans is that God created man in his image, this isn't true for animals. So if anyone says that when God blew the breath of life into that flesh and blood human body, God gave man, mind/will/emotion, then a person would be saying that God did the same to animals since the scriptures show us that the same breath of life(spirit) that's in man, is also in animals. We however know that this isn't true for animals. God created man in his image not animals. This breath of life(spirit) that God blew into that flesh and blood human body had nothing to do with how God created man in his image, or how God composed the first man Adam with mind/will/emotion.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

The only thing that is biblical about the immortal soul doctrine is that it is the first recorded lie from Satan's mouth. God says that a living person is a soul that can and will die. It is not imperishable, nor is it something that a person has in them. That is theological drivel that "Christianity" inherited from heathen religions.

 

[MatthewG]

It is true the soul can die.

The mind/will/emotion that encompasses our soul can die…

But the life of the soul which was initiated cant fully die, can it? The breathe of life gives us and each person in the world to live off of, Will finally be given up by the last breathe we breathe.

But the soul continues on to God doesn’t it?

Jesus promised resurrection, and when he gave up the spirit, he went to Sheol/hell/hades for three days and God raised him back up from the dead.

Isn’t that how it is today?

If you don’t believe that the soul of an individual is resurrected, where do people go when they die?

 

[MatthewG]

I don’t care much for the animals so… I like cats and what not, I can like dogs but when they die to me they just die and go back to the earth. So does the human body, it goes back to dirt. But the human spirit the soul of a person where does it go? I personally believe by faith God resurrects the soul, of all people.

may you do maybe you don’t, what are your thoughts?

Ecc 3:21 Who knows if the human spirit rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?”

 

[Wrangler]

Thank you for sharing your subjective beliefs Face2Face.

Do you also have subjective beliefs MatthewG?

 

[MatthewG]

Do you also have subjective beliefs MatthewG?

The faith is subjective between an individual and their knowledge of what the Bible states and says and what they believe according to the whole in their part of what they understand.

So if people believe that Jesus is still coming, they believe Jesus is still coming based on what thy been taught, seeing the scriptures and coming to what they know to be true in their understanding.

If people don’t believe that the soul is resurrected or goes on, it is based on what they know or what they been taught, and if Jesus hasnt returned most people are still “sleeping” in the grave.

If people believe that people are going to hell still today, that would mean they don’t believe the revelation has happened, and it’s based on what they have been taught and what they see from the text and believe that it hadn’t all happened yet.

If people believe in a trinity that God, Son, and Holy Spirit make up the one God, that is something they been taught, and have come to see through the scriptures by some type of methodical teaching about that subject, however there are counter arguments that people tend to dismiss like “Paul saying there is only One God the father, and one Lord the Son”, it’s a subjective belief to the individual person does it effect people salvation? No.

There is one objective belief I hold true, and that is we are to believe on the one whom God had sent which is his Son, who came, died, was buried and raised again, and was going to return for his bride in that day in age. Those who today believe on Him, die with him, be buried with him, and are raised again with Him are born again and are part of the Spiritual Kingdom that Jesus had set up which is not of this world. It will never stop increasing and people come into it by faith.

Being deemed children of God or Son and daughter of God, and while living on this earth spiritual growth is important, to mature from a child to a son or daughter feeding the new created inner man/ inner woman by feeding off of the flesh and drinking the blood of Christ, as radical as that may sound.

There is no other way to spiritually grow other than to hear the word of God which produces faith when it is looked at, and prayerfully understood.


I don’t care much for church anymore but can show up to any church I choose to show up in, I may get to share thoughts and ideas with other Christian’s and perhaps receive insights I never thought of before all when things are lead by the spirit which it is hard to tell if you aren’t spiritually mature what is true and what is not true, what is of the spirit and what is actually of the flesh.

It’s hard to tell that if you are a child, but as you grow and eat meat and drink milk you become stronger over time by faith, and trusting God to help you in your life as you walk by the spirit, Wrangler.

 

[CadyandZoe]

But the soul continues on to God doesn’t it?

No. When we die, we die. Period.

Jesus promised resurrection, and when he gave up the spirit, he went to Sheol/hell/hades for three days and God raised him back up from the dead.

Isn’t that how it is today?

Sheol, hell, and Hades are different concepts.

Sheol is the Hebrew word for the grave: a place of burial. It isn't a state of being; it's simply a place to lay a dead body.

Hell is the English translation of the Greek word Gehenna, which is was the Jerusalem city dump where trash fires continued to burn. Some of the city refuse was incinerated there, and since the place where the trash was being incinerated was called "Gehenna", the term "Gehenna" came to represent the final judgment: a place from which there is no return. Unlike the term "Sheol", which doesn't refer to a state of being; the term "Hell" or "Gehenna" does refer to a state of being. When something is thrown into the fires of Gehenna, it is destroyed and lost forever.

Jesus speaks about the destruction of the soul in terms of being thrown into the fires of Gehenna. He warns us, "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matthew 10:28) Do you see his comparison? Moments will arise when we will be forced by circumstance to make a choice between our obligation to human authority our obligation to divine authority. Shall we obey God or man? Shall we fear God or man? If my devotion to God conflicts with human authority, which one do I choose? Most people would choose to fear man, because man is the immediate and known threat. After all, they might think, God is simply our favorite fictional character. Right?

If I don't obey man, I could be put to death. But, Jesus argues, while Men are able to kill, they are not able to destroy. God is able to destroy. The point is, the term "Gehenna" refers to a place where trash is destroyed. The trash that is placed into Gehenna ceases to exist; likewise, the body and soul that God destroys ceases to exist.

Hades:
Hades is the name of the Greek god of the underworld. The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus wrote about Hades from a Jewish perspective. He told the Greeks that according to Jewish tradition, Hades had two compartments: one reserved for the unrighteous dead and another reserved for the righteous dead. The compartment reserved for the righteous dead was called "Abraham's bosom." You can probably find a copy of his work online: " Discourse to the Greeks concerning Hades," it's a short read.

Jesus draws upon this mythology in his parable of the rich man and Lazarus. Luke 16:19-31

Now, I don't believe that Hades is a real place, but even if it is, it is temporary. According to Revelation both death and Hades are thrown into the lake of fire.

The bottom line is this, immortality is not inherited or innate. Immortality is not a characteristic aspect of a soul. If Abraham's bosom exists and is real, those who survive there are able to exist at the will of God. Nothing in this life, including the human soul is timeless and indestructible by nature. Those who reside in Abraham's bosom continue to have a transient nature, not permanent existence.

Permanent existence is granted to those who are "in Christ." Only when this perishable has put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality has the sting of death been removed. (Refer to 1 Corinthians 15:50-57)

As I say, I don't believe that the bosom of Abraham is a real place. Since the Bible teaches us that final judgment is the sole purpose of the general resurrection, then the idea of Hades renders the Biblical view moot and irrelevant. Consider the fact that those in Hades have already been judged, being sorted out by an angel into two compartments and segregated by a large chasm. Raising them from the dead to judge them again is superfluous: not required.

 

[MatthewG]

No. When we die, we die. Period.

Good morning CadyandZoe,

What happens when you die?

Sheol, hell, and Hades are different concepts.

Sheol is the Hebrew word for the grave: a place of burial. It isn't a state of being; it's simply a place to lay a dead body.

There is also a part of Sheol known as paradise, and prison, did you know that?

Second, "Sheol" is used of a place of conscious existence after death. In the first biblical appearance of the word Jacob said that he would "go down into the grave unto my son mourning" (Genesis 37:35). All men go to "Sheol" -- a place and stay of consciousness after death (Psalm 16:10. The wicked recipe punishment there (Numbers 16:30; Deut 32:22; Psalm 9:7). They are put to shame and silenced in "Sheol" (PSalm 31:17. Jesus alluded to Isiahs use of Sheol (Isaiah 14:13-15) in pronouncing judgment on Capernaum (Matthew 11:23), translating Sheol as Hades or Hell, meaning the place of conscious existence and judgment. It is an undeniable place for the wicked (Job 24:19) and a refuge for the righteous (Job 14:13). Thus "Sheol" is also a place of reward for the righteous (Hosea 13:14). Jesus teaching in Luke 16:19-31 seems to reflect accurately the Old Testament concept of Sheol; it was a place of conscious existence after death, one side of which is occupied by the suffering, unrighteous dead departed by a great chasm from the other side peopled by the righteous dead enjoying their reward.

Hell i

s the English translation of the Greek word Gehenna, which is was the Jerusalem city dump where trash fires continued to burn. Some of the city refuse was incinerated there, and since the place where the trash was being incinerated was called "Gehenna", the term "Gehenna" came to represent the final judgment: a place from which there is no return. Unlike the term "Sheol", which doesn't refer to a state of being; the term "Hell" or "Gehenna" does refer to a state of being. When something is thrown into the fires of Gehenna, it is destroyed and lost forever.

Okay

Jesus speaks about the destruction of the soul in terms of being thrown into the fires of Gehenna. He warns us, "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matthew 10:28)

Do you see his comparison? Destroy can also simply mean ruin, but for most it can mean obliterate, people were possibly thrown into the Ghenna burning with its fires as well. In that day in age.

Moments will arise when we will be forced by circumstance to make a choice between our obligation to human authority our obligation to divine authority. Shall we obey God or man? It depends on the circumstance, I need to listen to my supervisor, and cops, and investigators, but also need to follow the Holy Spirit when lead by God, and praying for God to help do so.

Shall we fear God or man? God, is who should be respected, but so should people be respected. Love God, and Love your fellow neighbor right?

If my devotion to God conflicts with human authority, which one do I choose?

That depends on the situation, is the person got a gun to your head? Is he telling you must kill your wife, and daughter, otherwise he will be back on Wednesday night to kill you (wouldn't you need to go to Human Authorites such as the Law? Is the person trying to get you to "forcibly" worship something you do not believe is good to worship?

If your devotion to God - that is subjective.
Human authority - That is depending on circumstances??

Most people would choose to fear man, because man is the immediate and known threat. After all, they might think, God is simply our favorite fictional character. Right?


If I don't obey man, I could be put to death. But, Jesus argues, while Men are able to kill, they are not able to destroy. God is able to destroy. The point is, the term "Gehenna" refers to a place where trash is destroyed. The trash that is placed into Gehenna ceases to exist; likewise, the body and soul that God destroys ceases to exist.

Okay, that I show you believe, but destroy doesn't mean to stop existing, the body is going to die that is a truth that everyone should except.

Hades:
Hades is the name of the Greek god of the underworld. The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus wrote about Hades from a Jewish perspective. He told the Greeks that according to Jewish tradition, Hades had two compartments: one reserved for the unrighteous dead and another reserved for the righteous dead. The compartment reserved for the righteous dead was called "Abraham's bosom." You can probably find a copy of his work online: " Discourse to the Greeks concerning Hades," it's a short read.

I have read it is short but Josephus wasn't a Christ believer, and it was his own take on that subject.

Jesus draws upon this mythology in his parable of the rich man and Lazarus. Luke 16:19-31

Not sure that is true considering the Old Testament.

Now, I don't believe that Hades is a real place, but even if it is, it is temporary. According to Revelation both death and Hades are thrown into the lake of fire.

Okay, I believe that Sheol was a very real place, and in the same manner here as you shared it is dumped out all the souls that were in it and done away.

The bottom line is this, immortality is not inherited or innate. Immortality is not a characteristic aspect of a soul. If Abraham's bosom exists and is real, those who survive there are able to exist at the will of God. Nothing in this life, including the human soul is timeless and indestructible by nature. Those who reside in Abraham's bosom continue to have a transient nature, not permanent existence.

You are really putting out your beliefs on what you see now, as stated in the first quote there is some more open information about Sheol.

Permanent existence is granted to those who are "in Christ." Only when this perishable has put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality has the sting of death been removed. (Refer to 1 Corinthians 15:50-57)

Not so sure that I personally agree with your addressing of "only granted" as I believe Jesus Christ has overcome, sin, death, hell/sheol, Satan and his Angels, for all people. The only sin that remains, is the sin of unbelief however, Jesus said in Matthew 5:29 there is a resurrection of life (believers) and there is a resurrection of condemnation (unbelievers)

As I say, I don't believe that the bosom of Abraham is a real place. Since the Bible teaches us that final judgment is the sole purpose of the general resurrection, then the idea of Hades renders the Biblical view moot and irrelevant.

Okay. We believe differently on this point.

Consider the fact that those in Hades have already been judged, being sorted out by an angel into two compartments and segregated by a large chasm. Raising them from the dead to judge them again is superfluous: not required.

I disagree, thank you for sharing your own personal view, not sure if you wanted someone to come along and critique it for you but you have your own views as I have my own views.

In the end for me and my view = Everyone is raised again, believer and no believer because of Yeshua Christ and all he had done to pay for the whole word and it's sins. 1 John 2:2