Scripture Study of The Immortal Soul (Spirit of Man/Woman)

[MatthewG]

Shorter response @CadyandZoe - I believe what the old testament says and documents about Sheol, and I believe what Jesus the Lord had said about it, and John said about it being done away with.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Good morning CadyandZoe,

What happens when you die?

After death, one ceases to exist in this reality and continue to exist in the mind of God.

There is also a part of Sheol known as paradise, and prison, did you know that?

No, as far as I know, Sheol is where bodies are placed.

Second, "Sheol" is used of a place of conscious existence after death.

Scripture please.
Yes, Jacob said that he would enter the grave. Did he say he would have conscious awareness there? No.

Neither does Psalms 16:10, Numbers 16:30, Deuteronomy 6:30, or Psalms 32:22 or Psalm 9:7 mention conscious awareness.

Nice try, but no cigar. The scriptures you provided indicate nothing but a place to bury a body.

Shall we fear God or man? God, is who should be respected, but so should people be respected. Love God, and Love your fellow neighbor right?

Don't miss the point.

If my devotion to God conflicts with human authority, which one do I choose?
That depends on the situation, is the person got a gun to your head?

Don't loose the point. When the Lord Jesus talks about the man who can kill the body, the circumstance is both clear, narrow and unambiguous. Jesus is focused on the death penalty. Specifically, Jesus is talking about himself and others like him who face the death penalty for speaking the truth. Some folks who speak truth to power end up dead.

Okay, that I show you believe, but destroy doesn't mean to stop existing, the body is going to die that is a truth that everyone should except.

Check your philosophical assumptions. Who told you about a bodiless existence? It wasn't the Bible.

Not sure that is true considering the Old Testament.

Compare the parable with Josephus' treatise.

Okay, I believe that Sheol was a very real place, and in the same manner here as you shared it is dumped out all the souls that were in it and done away.

Where did you get that idea? It's not in the Holy Scriptures.

You are really putting out your beliefs on what you see now, as stated in the first quote there is some more open information about Sheol.

Be careful what you read.

Not so sure that I personally agree with your addressing of "only granted" as I believe Jesus Christ has overcome, sin, death, hell/sheol, Satan and his Angels, for all people. The only sin that remains, is the sin of unbelief however, Jesus said in Matthew 5:29 there is a resurrection of life (believers) and there is a resurrection of condemnation (unbelievers)

Yes, Jesus Christ is the means to eternal life, but it's a question of inheritance. The group of folks destined for eternal life include both Jews and Gentiles and from all time periods. The one thing they all have in common is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Now, though all people experience a resurrection, not all people are granted eternal life. The rest are destroyed in the lake of fire. At that point, they cease to exist.

Okay. We believe differently on this point.

It's okay. You're young. You'll get over it.

I disagree, thank you for sharing your own personal view, not sure if you wanted someone to come along and critique it for you but you have your own views as I have my own views.

Why do you insist on insulting me? Can't you help yourself? What a croc of . . .

 

[CadyandZoe]

Shorter response @CadyandZoe - I believe what the old testament says and documents about Sheol, and I believe what Jesus the Lord had said about it, and John said about it being done away with.

I believe what the Old Testament says about Sheol; I don't believe what commentators say about it. Get the diff? Think for yourself.

 

[MatthewG]

Where do you get scripture that pertains to living in the memory of God?

That is not scriptural or biblical at all.

(Unless you can bring forth some scripture I’ll consider it however it’s not what John talks about in the revelation.)

@CadyandZoe

 

[MatthewG]

John talks about people going to being inside the kingdom of heaven and outside of it.

And talks about those going into the Heavenly Jerusalem where God is and lives with Him, but those who wanted nothing to with God are outside of it.


“Blessed are those who wash their robes. They will be permitted to enter through the gates of the city and eat the fruit from the tree of life. Outside the city are the dogs—the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idol worshipers, and all who love to live a lie.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:14-15‬ ‭NLT‬‬

And this coincides with Jesus and what he said in John 5:29 where there are two different resurrections.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Where do you get scripture that pertains to living in the memory of God?

That is not scriptural or biblical at all.

(Unless you can bring forth some scripture I’ll consider it however it’s not what John talks about in the revelation.)

@CadyandZoe

Did I say that we live in the memory of God? If I did, I misspoke. I meant to say that we "exist" in the mind of God. Everything exists in the mind of God. Its a question of whether that thing or person is manifest in this reality. I take note of Paul's argument in Acts 17 in that context, speaking about an unknown God, (we know him as Yahweh) he describes God's transcendence. And he draws a sharp comparison between our existence and God's existence. God is the creator, but not just a creator, he is a transcendent creator. Not only did he make our species, but he made each of us individually. And not only that, but "in him we live, and move and have our being." Here we have an explicit statement concerning divine determinism, which places God at the root cause of all that exists and all that happens.

For those who die, then, the question is whether or not God will remember or forget the deceased. Of course, God will never forget, which is why he can recreate us at the resurrection of the dead.

With regard to the dead, Solomon says, "For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten." Ecclesiastes 9:5 The dead are dead; they are gone; they can't speak and they remember nothing. But God never forgets, which is why we put our trust in him.

 

[MatthewG]

Did I say that we live in the memory of God? If I did, I misspoke. I meant to say that we "exist" in the mind of God. Everything exists in the mind of God. Its a question of whether that thing or person is manifest in this reality. I take note of Paul's argument in Acts 17 in that context, speaking about an unknown God, (we know him as Yahweh) he describes God's transcendence. And he draws a sharp comparison between our existence and God's existence. God is the creator, but not just a creator, he is a transcendent creator. Not only did he make our species, but he made each of us individually. And not only that, but "in him we live, and move and have our being." Here we have an explicit statement concerning divine determinism, which places God at the root cause of all that exists and all that happens.

For those who die, then, the question is whether or not God will remember or forget the deceased. Of course, God will never forget, which is why he can recreate us at the resurrection of the dead.

With regard to the dead, Solomon says, "For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten." Ecclesiastes 9:5 The dead are dead; they are gone; they can't speak and they remember nothing. But God never forgets, which is why we put our trust in him.

Praise be to God that he raised the dead, which is all done by spiritual resurrection recorded by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15, my brother.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Praise be to God that he raised the dead, which is all done by spiritual resurrection recorded by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15, my brother.

What do you mean by "spiritual" resurrection? Are you thinking of being born again?

Paul doesn't mean to say that we experience a "spiritual" resurrection. He means to say that we experience a supernatural resurrection, i.e. life from the dead by divine command rather than natural means.

The saints experience a spiritual birth, not a spiritual resurrection. Don't be confused by those who refer to rebirth as a spiritual resurrection.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @CadyandZoe

If anyone is curious to know more about the Resurrection, I also reference Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 he talks explicitly on the entire subject.

However there are contrary views that people hold that they believe this fleshly body is what is going to be in the heavenly realm which to me personally contradicts scripture.

As you can see Paul makes clear in 1 Corinthians 15 on the subject of Resurrection:

I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
1 Corinthians 15:50, this is the reason that I tend to try to share scripture when talking bout the Bible.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Hello @CadyandZoe

If anyone is curious to know more about the Resurrection, I also reference Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 he talks explicitly on the entire subject.

However there are contrary views that people hold that they believe this fleshly body is what is going to be in the heavenly realm which to me personally contradicts scripture.

As you can see Paul makes clear in 1 Corinthians 15 on the subject of Resurrection:

I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
1 Corinthians 15:50, this is the reason that I tend to try to share scripture when talking bout the Bible.

I agree. However, Paul explicitly tells us that we will have a body. He compares our natural body with a spiritual body (not a spirit body) by analogy with a seed and a plant. By this we understand that the spiritual body (not spirit body) will have correspondence with our natural body. The experience of Jesus is an exemplar. After his resurrection, he was able to eat. He was able to walk and speak. He was able to show Thomas his wounds. That is, he was able to appear normal. But, he was also able to appear to a group of men located in a private room, apparently without opening the door. He was also able to appear in his glorified state.

 

[Wrangler]

Do you also have subjective beliefs MatthewG?

There is one objective belief I hold true,

So, only other people have subjective beliefs - that you feel obligated to emphasize - but you have objective beliefs. Wow! Not a lot of spiritual maturity there, my friend.

 

[Wrangler]

I don’t care much for church anymore but can show up to any church I choose to show up in, I may get to share thoughts and ideas with other Christian’s and perhaps receive insights

Christianity isn’t supposed to be practiced alone. You need community. Iron sharpens iron.

The ‘perhaps’ in your reply suggests you mostly know it all already. You only admit it is a possibility rather than a scenario approaching highly likely. Is that accurate?

 

[MatthewG]

So, only other people have subjective beliefs - that you feel obligated to emphasize - but you have objective beliefs. Wow! Not a lot of spiritual maturity there, my friend.

Wrangler the truth is people do have subjective beliefs. There is only one objective belief which I shared in the realm of Christianity. Jesus Christ came, was buried and raised again, his return for the early church was a promise. Jesus has overcame sin, death (all death), Satan and His angels, and Hell/Sheol. All of these things are biblical and objectively seen in the Bible to come about and happen.

So I don’t really see how speaking something honestly has to do with feelings.

 

[MatthewG]

Christianity isn’t supposed to be practiced alone. You need community. Iron sharpens iron.

The ‘perhaps’ in your reply suggests you mostly know it all already. You only admit it is a possibility rather than a scenario approaching highly likely. Is that accurate?

Wrangler,

By the spirit people learn things when they read the Bible, it’s also helpful if you have a person who is spirit lead but also admits hey maybe I’m wrong on this think for yourself and go check it out. That is why recently I put what is in my signature. The online school also in my signature has a teacher like that, and one day when I was praying to God he sent me a teacher to learn from.

He didn’t make excuses for not using the Bible he used the Bible, so I don’t believe I know anymore than anyone else can learn to know by using the Bible and seeking God in spirit and in truth.

Im not better than anyone else, nor see myself as better than anyone else, it seems I know more than I really should know but do not know it all.

 

[MatthewG]

I agree. However, Paul explicitly tells us that we will have a body. He compares our natural body with a spiritual body (not a spirit body) by analogy with a seed and a plant. By this we understand that the spiritual body (not spirit body) will have correspondence with our natural body. The experience of Jesus is an exemplar. After his resurrection, he was able to eat. He was able to walk and speak. He was able to show Thomas his wounds. That is, he was able to appear normal. But, he was also able to appear to a group of men located in a private room, apparently without opening the door. He was also able to appear in his glorified state.

Thank you for explaining. I agree too.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Wrangler the truth is people do have subjective beliefs. There is only one objective belief which I shared in the realm of Christianity. Jesus Christ came, was buried and raised again, his return for the early church was a promise. Jesus has overcame sin, death (all death), Satan and His angels, and Hell/Sheol. All of these things are biblical and objectively seen in the Bible to come about and happen.

So I don’t really see how speaking something honestly has to do with feelings.

When most people hear the word "subjective" they understand "something that exists solely in the mind." Is that what you mean to say? Our beliefs aren't real or based on fact?

 

[MatthewG]

When most people hear the word "subjective" they understand "something that exists solely in the mind." Is that what you mean to say? Our beliefs aren't real or based on fact?

What do you think of when I say the Christian faith is subjective?

 

[Wrangler]

Wrangler the truth is people do have subjective beliefs. There is only one objective belief which I shared in the realm of Christianity. Jesus Christ came, was buried and raised again, his return for the early church was a promise. Jesus has overcame sin, death (all death), Satan and His angels, and Hell/Sheol. All of these things are biblical and objectively seen in the Bible to come about and happen.

So I don’t really see how speaking something honestly has to do with feelings.

I didn't say anything about feelings.

 

[CadyandZoe]

What do you think of when I say the Christian faith is subjective?

I've never heard you say that the Christian faith, per se is subjective. Rather, you tell people that their beliefs are subjective and what I hear is "your beliefs are not valid or real. Your ideas are fiction, relegated to the mind. It's okay by me if you hold these beliefs in your private thoughts, but they have no bearing in reality. Have a nice day."

What do you mean by "subjective"?

 

[Wrangler]

I've never heard you say that the Christian faith, per se is subjective. Rather, you tell people that their beliefs are subjective and what I hear is "your beliefs are not valid or real. Your ideas are fiction, relegated to the mind. It's okay by me if you hold these beliefs in your private thoughts, but they have no bearing in reality. Have a nice day."

What do you mean by "subjective"?

That's my observation as well.