The Pre-Trib Rapture

[Taken]

@Taken Oh I see; thank-you! so as regards trust, you would tend to trust electronic devices, generally speaking, but you would not have enough trust in the needles in a tattoo machine - even if the aesthetics of the tattoo design itself were viewed as generally positive.

Okay; fine; thanks for the comment!

No, don’t trust the gadgetry electronics stuff so much.

 

[farouk]

(Replied elsewhere because we were getting off topic...)

 

[ewq1938]

You are Still in ERROR.

I'm clearly not. You are in error. I have already proven Adam was created AFTER the 7th day.

 

[Taken]

I'm clearly not. You are in error. I have already proven Adam was created AFTER the 7th day.

No, you are plainly still in error. End of discussion.

Gen 1
[23] And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
Gen 1:
[27] So God created man...
Gen 1:
[31] And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Gen 2:
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
[2] And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

 

[Enoch111]

I have already proven Adam was created AFTER the 7th day.

There was absolutely NO creative work of God after the seventh day. So how did you dream up this bizarre scenario? Check the Ten Commandments to see that you are in serious error (nothing new for ewq1938).

 

[Taken]

There was absolutely NO creative work of God after the seventh day. So how did you dream up this bizarre scenario? Check the Ten Commandments to see that you are in serious error (nothing new for ewq1938).

What Church teaches that bizarre notion?

 

[No Pre-TB]

According to the bible, Adam was created after the 7th day, then animals were created, then lastly Eve was created. This is a different day of creation than the 6th day where animals were created before any humans, then man and woman were created at the same time.

Read post #2861 again.

The whole of this second narrative (Ch. 2) is pre-eminently anthropomorphic.

 

[ewq1938]

There was absolutely NO creative work of God after the seventh day.

The bible disagrees with you.

 

[ewq1938]

No, you are plainly still in error. End of discussion.

The bible ends all incorrect discussion:

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Gen 2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
Gen 2:11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
Gen 2:12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
Gen 2:13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
Gen 2:14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
Gen 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
Gen 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

 

[Enoch111]

The bible disagrees with you.

I already told you that the Ten Commandments REFUTE your bizarre notion. Should that not have been enough? So which "bible" have you discovered which contradicts the Ten Commandments? Gen 2:1-3 concludes chapter 1. Chapter 2:4 ff focuses on Adam and Eve. But chapter 1 already told you on which day Adam and Eve were created -- the sixth day. Q.E.D. So you really do not even understand the sequence of creation.

 

[ewq1938]

I already told you that the Ten Commandments REFUTE your bizarre notion.

No, they don't.

But chapter 1 already told you on which day Adam and Eve were created -- the sixth day. Q.E.D.

That's wrong according to Gen 2. Adam was clearly created after God rested.

 

[Taken]

The bible ends all incorrect discussion:

You are in error on two accounts.
#1
Gen 2:
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
#2
This thread is About the Pre-Tribulation NOT Creation!

 

[ewq1938]

[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

I never said what was created in Gen 1 was not finished. Guess what happens after a day off? Works starts again! God started creating new things in Gen 2.

 

[Timtofly]

You prove yourself out of whack.
The Resurrection follows the Millennial Reign.
You said Human (which ARE mortals) are not present during the Millennial reign, but POOF are present during the Resurrection.

Fascinating where do “Living Human mortals” hide out OFF THE EARTH, during the millennial reign, and magically Appear on Earth Having offsprings during the Resurrection?

Your not even quoting me correctly.

The resurrection in Revelation 20:4 is before the Millennium, not after the Millennium.

So God gives those beheaded back Adam's sin nature body? That is all sorts of messed up. That is not what Paul claims about a resurrection.

All humans in the Millennium are resurrected out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. That is why they are no longer mortal. Mortal means dead! Humans are always humans. Even the sons of God were humans. Human does not mean dead flesh. Mortal means dead flesh.

They are not immortal. No one is ever immortal. Paul's putting on of immortality is putting on the spirit. It is glorification to the full image of God, body, soul, and spirit. The body is still physical. It is now permanent and incorruptible. Putting on the spirit is the complete image as a son of God. John in the 5th Seal symbolizes the process with the putting on of a robe of white. Jesus demonstrated the spirit on the mount of Transfiguration, when He turned as bright as the sun. That is Paul's putting on of immortality. Your "being immortal" is putting on the spirit over the physical body, which is put on over the soul. No where does God's Word state "mortals" and "immortals". That is the fiction of TV and movies from Greek mythology. Paul says we put on immortality. Paul did not say we become immortals. We become sons of God in the full glorified image of God.

I guess if you want to identify with the world, speak their lingo, as long as they know you are not using the same definitions. We don't become gods. We are sons of God.

The church as glorified remains in Paradise, where they have been for the last 1992 years. Those harvested firstfruits of the tribulation, tribulation "saints" are those humans who reign with Jeaus for 1,000 years. They are neither your mortals nor your immortals. They are no longer in dead corruptible flesh. They are not glorified as sons of God either.

They literally are how those in Paradise for the last 1992 years have been. They have permanent incorruptible physical bodies. 2 Corinthians 5:1. The difference is in Paradise, they are like the angels and do not procreate. No need to keep filling up Paradise. But during the Millennium they will fill up the earth, to the ends of the earth, the four corners.

"And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."

So by the end of the 1,000 years, there will be billions at the corners of the earth, as well as billions over the rest of the earth. If Satan once convinced a third of the angels, it could happen again with a third of humanity. So if a billion rebel, then 2 billion are still left on earth. But the point is that no one naturally dies, because they are all waiting for the 1,000 years to end and the NHNE to start. Until Satan is loosed and allowed to deceive some of these humans.

 

[Timtofly]

Now you’re nit picking my words to try and disprove scripture? So, let me specify.

Adam was created first. Eve was created after Adam. Gen 1:26-27 show male and female were created on the 6th day. The Lord rested after all was good and finished on the 7th day. If you say Adam was created on the 6th day and not Eve, who was the women referred to in those 2 verses?

The sons of God were created on the 6th day. Adam was just one of many. Adam was not created separately. Genesis 2 just states how the sons of God as humans were all created on the 6th day. Adam was not even named on the 6th day nor before God planted the Garden. In fact the sons of God themselves were not mentioned as sons of God, a title until after the story of Cain and Abel. So not calling them sons of God in Genesis 1 is not extraordinary nor was it necessary to give them that title until they were mentioned in the events of chapter 6. Adam was only named after naming all the animals. Eve was only named after they were sinners. The sons of God were mentioned by name only after their offspring turned against God and their offspring were now born into Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

The sons of God were giants compared to Adam's new dead corruptible flesh. Adam and Eve literally physically died and their souls entered a different body. They lost their spirit, and were no longer spiritual beings. The exact reversal of the change that will happen at the Second Coming.

Not sure why know no one seems to understand why Adam and Eve suddenly found themselves naked. Their eyes were said to be opened, when in reality they become spiritually blind and now had dead corruptible physical bodies. Their new eyes now realized their knowledge of good and evil, and they were now physically different from all the other sons of God. Who remained giants as before sin. The Sabbath Day of the Lord was a literal 1,000 year time period. So the giants had multiplied and covered the earth. Cain married one of the offspring. Seth probably did not. It was later around the time of Methuselah that the sons of God procreated with Adam's dead corruptible flesh. It was around the time that Enos was born when Adam's offspring were aloud to call out to God. That was at least 300 years after Adam disobeyed God. Plenty of time for Seth and siblings to establish themselves among the sons of God (200 years). Seth came after 130 years. Enos came after another 105. Then Enos had a son at 95. It was around then, that Enos would seek the Lord. 330 years.

 

[Taken]

I never said what was created in Gen 1 was not finished. Guess what happens after a day off? Works starts again! God started creating new things in Gen 2.

STOP! Enough!
Be courteous. This thread is Pre-Trib RAPTURE.
Open your own OP thread about Creation you want to discuss.

 

[No Pre-TB]

The creation account is specific.
Genesis 1:26-28 refutes any thought that man or women is created as the first beings after the 7th day.

Gen 1:28
28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Who is them? Verse 27 says who them is: male and female created he them. And verse 31 says it happened on the 6th day. Otherwise you must explain who the women was that God created on the 6th day if not Eve which verses 26-28 demonstrate. Any other thought is heretical and out of line. Enough scholars throughout history have already shown this. A easy read with the HS spirit would show this. Leading into your own inclination leads to wickedness

There is nothing else to say on the subject. Disagreement with this requires you to pray earnestly for council and to seek understanding.

 

[Taken]

HEY guys...care to take a TRIPPY TRIP through FACTS and FICTION?

The resurrection in Revelation 20:4 is before the Millennium, not after the Millennium.

You miss Gods ORDER and WAY.
* men upon the earth suffer tribulations from other men and evil spirits.
* God SENT His Word, and for 2,000 years, SOME men have listened, heeded Gods Word, and Become PREPARED, according to Gods Order and Way, FOR whatever DAY, God would BEGIN sending His Tribulations Down from Heaven UPON the Earth and it’s inhabitants.
* God shall send His own tribulations from Heaven down upon the earth to suffer men who rebelled against Him, AND DID NOT BECOME PREPARED to AVOID Gods WRATH and Tribulations.
* Gods tribulations BEGIN subtle, geographically confined, and powerful enough to get mens attention, to RECOGNIZE, Prophecy is unfolding. The TIME IS AT HAND DURING the Beginning of Gods Tribulations; for men to MAKE their Stand...WITH or WITHOUT the Lord God.
* MEN who Prepared BEFORE Gods Tribulation...ARE resurrected BEFORE Gods Tribulation BEGINS.
* MEN BECOMING Prepared DURING Gods Tribulation...Confessing their Belief, ARE bodily Killed, soul saved waiting under the altar, UNTIL any others DURING Gods Tribulations, Confess their belief, are bodily killed, their souls saved, wait under the altar....this is effected, through the 7 seals, through the 7 trumps.

NOTHING NEW...Men have BEEN BODILY DEAD, and Resurrected and resumed LIVING, as Revealed IN Scripture.
(1 Kgs 17:17–22)
(2 Kgs 4:18–37)
(2 Kgs 13:20)
(Mark 5:41)
(Luke 7: 14)
(John 11:38–44)
(Matt 27:52–53)
(Matt 28:1-6)
(Acts 9:36–42)
(Acts 20:7–12)

BEFORE Gods FUTURE; Tribulation;
Resurrection of the Church (i.e., Rapture, 1 Thess 4:13-18; 1 Cor 15:23)
DURING Gods Future; Tribulation;
Resurrection of the Two Witnesses (Rev 11:7–11)
Resurrection of OT Saints and Martyrs (Revelation 20:4)

Christ’s 1,000 Year reign WITH those, SAVED and Resurrected...
BEFORE and DURING Gods Great Tribulation AND DURING Christ’s 1,000 year reign.

The FIRST “resurrection”, is NOT the Beginning...but rather the culmination and finality of ALL gathered together, in STANDING “WITH” the Lord God. (Gods OT saints, Gods 2 witnesses, Gods 144,000 sealed Tribesmen, ISRAEL tribesmen, Christ Jesus’ Church of Jews and Gentiles, Remnant of mortal men establishing Nations outside of Christ Jesus’ 1,000 year earthly Kingdom.....ANY an ALL at any given time IN History and Future that declared and established their STANDING WITH the Lord God...are broadly called having taken part in the FIRST Resurrection.

John was called UP hither, and is giving his ACCOUNT of what he is given to SEE in the Future.
John IN HEAVEN, SEES....the SAVED SOULS of men, that were beheaded, DURING the Tribulation, FOR their Testimony of BELIEF, and refusal to worship the BEAST plaguing the earth.
John reveals, they LIVE...and reign WITH Christ for 1,000 years.
......HELLO...their Saved SOUL, from Heaven is reunited with their RISEN “on earth”, GLORIFIED BODY, and LIVE ON EARTH, Christ Jesus’ Earthy Kingdom, for 1,000 years.
......You should KNOW, thereafter the 1,000 years...THOSE saved souls and glorified body’s SHALL THEN stand BEFORE the JUDGE and BE JUDGED and Receive their sentences FOR their OWN place IN their future.

Rev 4:
[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

FUTURE...
Resurrection of the Wicked (Revelation 20:5)

[5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

So God gives those beheaded back Adam's sin nature body? That is all sorts of messed up. That is not what Paul claims about a resurrection.

Well ... OBSERVE YOUR OWN STRANGE COMMENT...
you make a statement, end your statement with a question mark, then criticize your own statement, and then challenge your own question MARK.

THAT is MESSED UP!

 

[Taken]

@Timtofly

All humans in the Millennium are resurrected out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

No. During the millennial reign. The resurrected IN glorified Body’s Occupy Christ’s Kingdom.
OUTSIDE of Christ’s Kingdom LIVING (who have not died) MORTALS occupy their Nations/kingdoms.

Seriously...did you MISS the LESSON?
Christ Jesus’ Kingdom has BORDERS...(did you FORGET the LAND given to ABRAHAM and his Descendants? Did you FORGET the everlasting Throne given king David?)
WHERE do you THINK, Christ Jesus’ “EARTHLY” KINGDOM is, and His THRONE of His Kingdom?

When Christ Jesus’ sits in His Throne IN JERUSALEM, and Rules His Kingdom (the Land Promised Abraham)....
Christ Jesus RULES AS.....KING OF kings....LORD OF lords...
WHAT...kings and lords do you think KING, LORD Christ Jesus is RULING OVER?
Do you NOT KNOW, it is all the Nations outside of Christ Jesus’ Kingdom?
Do you NOT KNOW, it is LIVING Mortals occupying those Nations?

DO YOU NOT KNOW...after the 1,000 year REIGN....Satan is LOOSED. To;
Rev 20:
[7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
[8] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

What NATIONS (kingdoms, with kings and lords) do you think are spread out across the earth....THAT LOOSED SATAN goes out to gather together TO BATTLE AGAINST....WHOM exactly?

That is why they are no longer mortal.

Really? Do you think SATAN “shall roam the earth gathering together DEAD MEN” to convince them to REBEL Against Christ’s Earthy Kingdom?

Do you not RECALL Satan is Scripturally Revealed, roaming the earth, influencing LIVING MEN to rebel Against God?

Mortal means dead!

Seriously, Get a Dictionary. MORTAL does not mean “DEAD”!
MORTAL means, IT SHALL DIE!

Humans are always humans. Even the sons of God were humans. Human does not mean dead flesh. Mortal means dead flesh.

Yipes you embarrass yourself.

They are not immortal. No one is ever immortal.

More embarrassment.

Paul's putting on of immortality is putting on the spirit. It is glorification to the full image of God, body, soul, and spirit. The body is still physical. It is now permanent and incorruptible. Putting on the spirit is the complete image as a son of God. John in the 5th Seal symbolizes the process with the putting on of a robe of white. Jesus demonstrated the spirit on the mount of Transfiguration, when He turned as bright as the sun. That is Paul's putting on of immortality. Your "being immortal" is putting on the spirit over the physical body, which is put on over the soul. No where does God's Word state "mortals" and "immortals". That is the fiction of TV and movies from Greek mythology. Paul says we put on immortality. Paul did not say we become immortals. We become sons of God in the full glorified image of God.

1 Cor 15:
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

I guess if you want to identify with the world, speak their lingo, as long as they know you are not using the same definitions. We don't become gods. We are sons of God.

EH....No need FOR YOU to PRETEND YOU can make YOUR FALSE GUESSWORK apply to me.

The church as glorified remains in Paradise, where they have been for the last 1992 years. Those harvested firstfruits of the tribulation, tribulation "saints" are those humans who reign with Jeaus for 1,000 years. They are neither your mortals nor your immortals. They are no longer in dead corruptible flesh. They are not glorified as sons of God either.

They literally are how those in Paradise for the last 1992 years have been. They have permanent incorruptible physical bodies. 2 Corinthians 5:1. The difference is in Paradise, they are like the angels and do not procreate. No need to keep filling up Paradise. But during the Millennium they will fill up the earth, to the ends of the earth, the four corners.

"And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."

HUH...total confusion...——>

THEY...reigning WITH Jesus’ in His Kingdom...are the same THEY occupying the NATIONS (cuz no need to keep filling up Paradise), and then the SAME THEY go out and DECEIVE the NATIONS???

So by the end of the 1,000 years, there will be billions at the corners of the earth, as well as billions over the rest of the earth. If Satan once convinced a third of the angels, it could happen again with a third of humanity. So if a billion rebel, then 2 billion are still left on earth. But the point is that no one naturally dies, because they are all waiting for the 1,000 years to end and the NHNE to start. Until Satan is loosed and allowed to deceive some of these humans.

***Well there ya have it folks...the following load of twisted paraphrased gobbledygook....NOT TAUGHT IN SCRIPTURE!
Mortals, Mortality, meanings are a great mystery.
God is pretty content with how full Paradise is.
Jesus’ earthly Kingdom shall be full of some freaky things, neither alive or dead.
They who fill Christ’s Kingdom shall then go out and deceive the Nations.
Humans are forever human earthly dust.
All that talk about human death and immortality is just fictional tv stuff.
Some of those freaky things, neither alive or dead, shall become sons of God.***

YIPES!!

 

[No Pre-TB]

Well ... OBSERVE YOUR OWN STRANGE COMMENT...
you make a statement, end your statement with a question mark, then criticize your own statement, and then challenge your own question MARK.

THAT is MESSED UP!

Ive said before, @Timtofly got more flip flops than a Florida beach. He’s all over the place and will not stay on subject. His ideas (notice I said his) are scary.