The word “HAS”

[RichardBurger]

Richard, I think you posted my quote but your response was to a different post. All along I have been pretty much on the same page. chapter and book as you.

To most of the others, it seems the emphasis goes to the 'doing' as if our 'doing' is part of the Gospel that either helps save us or helps keeps us. Au contraire.. In Ephesian we are first placed as seated in heavenly places and until you find that rest where you cease from your works and embracce His works finding your rest (Sabbath) in Him, all your subsequent so called 'good works' are nothing but filthy rags. I'm astonished at these posts that are so saturated with self that Jesus Christ only gets a 'token' of our praise...a highway to pride.

I think that when I clicked on QUOTE it was on the wrong post. I agree that we are very close in what we believe. Sorry!

Have a great day!

 

[RichardBurger]

:)

Sometimes we strain at the gnat and gulp down the camel.

We all do it or have done it. I am no exception.

Why can't we just stop bickering and focus on obeying God?

Are we like the unruly masses in the wilderness that had come out of Egypt complaining so much that they could not hear to obey?

God is not one to be mocked. Whatever a man sows that man will reap. You know, Galatians chapter 6.

It is very apparent you are going to have works of some kind, is it not?

If you do not listen to God whose works will those be?

Romans 7:7 "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet."

When Paul ceased to covet because he listened to the law of God (which is God's word) whose work was he doing?

If you leave the commandment of God out of your business practices whose works would those be?

Colossians 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

You do lots of work everyday.

All God is asking is that you do that work with his commandments in mind so that you hurt no one with your works.

And he also has special work that he needs done through you so that he can reach the many and save all who will listen.

The only problem as I see it is that some (or maybe more truthfully, many) preach to others zealously thinking it will save them while they leave the commandment of God out of their ordinary everyday works of life.

Why turn this into a complicated thing when it is not?

Because we disagree! I do not believe that our works of the flesh (in the flesh) can make us righteous before God. Only the shed blood of Jesus does that and it is when we totaly trust that it does. But the religious want us to trust in them and do as they say.

We can not keep the perfect laws of God because we are still living in bodies of sinful flesh and when some keep on saying that we must keep laws they are saying that what Jesus went through to save us was irrevelant. They boast of what they do. -- The children of God, if they boast of anything, it will be the cross on which Jesus shed His blood to purchase our freedom from ourselves (our sins). No child of GOd WANTS to sin but they are not blinded by the religous, they know themselves and can see their sins of the flesh.

The only works we can perform for God is to try and reach the lost with the message of grace as given to Paul. That is being obedient. But to the religious being obedient is by doing works to earn salvation. They totally step on the gospel of Grace and turn it into a gospel of works.

You will not be able to get the children of God to believe what you believe. They know they can't, while living in bodies with a sinful nature, become perfect. Only those covered with the blood are perfect in the eyes of God even though they live with sin in the flesh. But I am sure nothing I have said here will get you past your religious ideas.

 

[Vengle]

Because we disagree! I do not believe that our works of the flesh (in the flesh) can make us righteous before God. Only the shed blood of Jesus does that and it is when we totaly trust that it does. But the religious want us to trust in them and do as they say.

We can not keep the perfect laws of God because we are still living in bodies of sinful flesh and when some keep on saying that we must keep laws they are saying that what Jesus went through to save us was irrevelant. They boast of what they do. -- The children of God, if they boast of anything, it will be the cross on which Jesus shed His blood to purchase our freedom from ourselves (our sins). No child of GOd WANTS to sin but they are not blinded by the religous, they know themselves and can see their sins of the flesh.

The only works we can perform for God is to try and reach the lost with the message of grace as given to Paul. That is being obedient. But to the religious being obedient is by doing works to earn salvation. They totally step on the gospel of Grace and turn it into a gospel of works.

You will not be able to get the children of God to believe what you believe. They know they can't, while living in bodies with a sinful nature, become perfect. Only those covered with the blood are perfect in the eyes of God even though they live with sin in the flesh. But I am sure nothing I have said here will get you past your religious ideas.

Why do you insist on calling God's works man's works?

You do not know it but that is what you are doing.

 

[prism]

:)


When Paul ceased to covet because he listened to the law of God (which is God's word) whose work was he doing?

Paul did not cease to covet when he listened to the law (as commandments) of God but rather sin increased (see Rom 7)..This is exactly what the works of the flesh is. It was when he heard and believed the Gospel did he see his only sure hope in the finality of the victorious Cross and the leading and power of the indwelling Spirit.

 

[Vengle]

Paul did not cease to covet when he listened to the law (as commandments) of God but rather sin increased (see Rom 7)..This is exactly what the works of the flesh is. It was when he heard and believed the Gospel did he see his only sure hope in the finality of the victorious Cross and the leading and power of the indwelling Spirit.

If you take it that he is talking about the man before his conversion on the road to Damascus , then you are right.

But if you say that after the seed was in him which John speaks of at 1 John 3:9, you do not understand who the elect of God are at all.

PS/ The ESV butchers the exegesis of 1 John 3:9

The Greek words used in no way denote a practice of sin. Look into that your self so you will know. It is talking about committing even a singular sin.

 

[Nomad]

PS/ The ESV butchers the exegesis of 1 John 3:9

The Greek words used in no way denote a practice of sin. Look into that your self so you will know. It is talking about committing even a singular sin.

No, this is incorrect. The Greek verb in question here is "poiei," which means "is doing." Unlike English verbs, Greek verbs not only indicate time of action, they also indicate kind of action. "Poiei" is in the present tense, which indicates progressive, repeated, or continuous action. The ESV's use of the word "practice" is valid as it conveys the true import of what John is saying. John is saying that those born of God do not live a lifestyle of continuous or habitual sinfulness as if no change had taken place within them at all. He was responding to early gnostics, some of whom believed that since the flesh is matter, and matter is inherently evil, you can sin all you want as long as you possess the knowledge or enlightenment that saves your spirit. John is pointing out that this simply isn't the case.

 

[Insight]

No, this is incorrect. The Greek verb in question here is "poiei," which means "is doing." Unlike English verbs, Greek verbs not only indicate time of action, they also indicate kind of action. "Poiei" is in the present tense, which indicates progressive, repeated, or continuous action. The ESV's use of the word "practice" is valid as it conveys the true import of what John is saying. John is saying that those born of God do not live a lifestyle of continuous or habitual sinfulness as if no change had taken place within them at all.

The above statement by Nomad is correct.

It may be of interest that John concerns himself with two kinds of sin in this Epistle:

1. One which he defines as lawlessness in 1 John 3:4
2. and the other which he describes as wrong-doing in 1 John 5:17

1 is the sin of the person who refuses the restrictions of God, rejects the reality of sin, and is intolerant of the limitations of law. For such an attitude there is no forgiveness, unless the person manifesting it completely reverses his attitude of lawlessness.

This is sin unto death. 1 John 5:16

 

[Prentis]

Man can not save himself by what he does to earn it.

If you knew the scriptures you would know that what Paul gave up was his religion (religious ideas under Judism).

Philippians 3:3-9
3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,
4 though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so:
5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee;
6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ.

8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ
9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;
NKJV

9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;
But many preach man's righteousness as the goal where as Paul teaches we HAVE a righteousness which is from God.

As for me, I claim only the righteousness God gave to me when I placed ALLLLLLLLL my belief, faith, trust, and confidence in the shed blood of Jesus on the cross. I claim no works to earn it and according to scriptures the Jews failed to obtain righteousness.

Romans 1:16-17
6 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith."
NKJV

But many say the just must live by their works.

Romans 4:5-8
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin."
NKJV

But many teach that we MUST do something to earn our salvation that fith alone will not save us.

Romans 10:1-4
0 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved.
2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
NKJV

But many on forums today, are trying to establish their own righteousness by what they do instead of seeking the rightesousness that is given freely to those of faith, those that have denied themselves and placed the belief, faith, trust, and confidence in the shed blood of Jesus on the cross.

Obedience under grace is to do as God has said through Paul; have faith in what God has done and not in your works to earn salvation.

You still miss the whole point.

According to what you say, we should NOT strive, we should NOT run to attain, we should NOT crucify the flesh. We need to do... Nothing! As a matter of fact, if we do anything, that's works! What is good, obedience to his commandments, you call evil.

There is no working out of salvation in your gospel. It shows itself to be in direct contrast to Paul's words when exposed.

 

[RichardBurger]

You still miss the whole point.

According to what you say, we should NOT strive, we should NOT run to attain, we should NOT crucify the flesh. We need to do... Nothing! As a matter of fact, if we do anything, that's works! What is good, obedience to his commandments, you call evil.

There is no working out of salvation in your gospel. It shows itself to be in direct contrast to Paul's words when exposed.

Hebrews 3:16-4:3
16 For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses?
17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Not obeying = unbelief; They were disobedoient because of unbelief

The Promise of Rest
4 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.
2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.
3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest,'" although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
NKJV

Hebrews 4:9-10
9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
NKJV

 

[prism]

If you take it that he is talking about the man before his conversion on the road to Damascus , then you are right.

But if you say that after the seed was in him which John speaks of at 1 John 3:9, you do not understand who the elect of God are at all.

PS/ The ESV butchers the exegesis of 1 John 3:9

The Greek words used in no way denote a practice of sin. Look into that your self so you will know. It is talking about committing even a singular sin.

i would steer clear of a position that is either/or. Paul is simply describing the ineffectiveness of the law due to the weakness of the flesh and the strength of sin (whether he is regenerate of unregenerate.). It is through our union with Christ (Rom 7:4) and not the law that fruit is produced..

Paul's warning to the Galatians of turning from grace of the Gospel is tied in with the works of the flesh...
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
(Gal 5:17-21)

 

[Prentis]

What did they not believe, Richard? :)

 

[RichardBurger]

What did they not believe, Richard? :)

Not what, Who. They did not believe God, period.

In this age of Grace God has given us salvation based on what He did on the cross. It is a free gift from God to a people that live in sinful bodies. If you do not believe this then you are disobedient because you do not believe God.

God HAS made us His children """in Christ""" and when a person believes the gospel they are placed IN CHRIST by the Holy Spirit and they HAVE eternal life.

Those that do not believe this are disobedient.

 

[Prentis]

They did not believe they could take the land, which God said he would give them.

God has made us free through Jesus Christ. It says that by his grace we STAND. It says that if we are in the light, we walk as he walked.

Those who do not believe this are disobedient, because they see with carnal eyes and say that God cannot do this. They claim the flesh is more powerful then the Spirit, and make the old Adam greater than the second. For by the old, man went from freedom to bondage, and now in the new, we go from bondage to freedom. But they say 'it is impossible'.

You have made a scheme by which you claim to be 'in Christ' because you think you are, rather than the truth of God, by which we can be in Christ, and when we are, it is a reality; we see with his eyes and walk in his strength.

Paul warns us time and time again about falling away, being cut off, falling away, but you do not believe it.

 

[RichardBurger]

They did not believe they could take the land, which God said he would give them.

God has made us free through Jesus Christ. It says that by his grace we STAND. It says that if we are in the light, we walk as he walked.

Those who do not believe this are disobedient, because they see with carnal eyes and say that God cannot do this. They claim the flesh is more powerful then the Spirit, and make the old Adam greater than the second. For by the old, man went from freedom to bondage, and now in the new, we go from bondage to freedom. But they say 'it is impossible'.

You have made a scheme by which you claim to be 'in Christ' because you think you are, rather than the truth of God, by which we can be in Christ, and when we are, it is a reality; we see with his eyes and walk in his strength.

Paul warns us time and time again about falling away, being cut off, falling away, but you do not believe it.

***It is by faith that we have those things. Not because we work for them.

You said "You have made a scheme by which you claim to be 'in Christ' because you think you are, rather than the truth of God, by which we can be in Christ, and when we are, it is a reality; we see with his eyes and walk in his strength.

***You are right about the fact that I believe (think) I am "in Christ." I have belief, faith, trust, and confidence that the Holy Spirit HAS placed me "in Christ". Sorry you don't seem to believe (think) you are in Christ by a work of God unless you pay for it (earn) by your works.

It is only “in Christ” that we do these things. We do not walk in Him by doing. It is by faith. -- We have His life “””BY FAITH””” not by our works.

You said, "Paul warns us time and time again about falling away, being cut off, falling away, but you do not believe it.

***You just can't stop saying what I believe can you. You know very well that those that are cut off are those who do not continue in faith in the shed blood of Jesus on the cross and I see that this may very well be you since you never proclaim the shed blood as sufficient for salvation. You claim that your works make you sufficient.

 

[Prentis]

By faith they conquered the Land. Does that mean they didn't take up a sword? Does that mean they didn't move forward? Because that's what you're advocating.

Men are told they are cut off because they didn't BEAR FRUIT, not because they stopped believing they were saved (Hebrews 6)!

You believe in placing yourself in Christ by your belief, but it is God who places us in Christ when we cry out to him, and then we must choose to abide.

You have shown clearly you do not believe in overcoming in this life. Is God too weak? Has he not made a way?

 

[Helen]

As I see it...I don't say that any others have to!

HAS !!! :)

That we were born sinners " to me" is not truth! For over 2,000 years it has not been true because of the imputed righteousness from the Cross for every human being.

Jesus’ redemption removes not just guilt. Christianity offers the removal of guilt, and people go through this tremendous salvation experience by being told that,- “At the moment of conversion, your sins are all going to be washed away.”
I know what that feels like to us at that time…because we suddenly "see the light" that was already "there" all the time..but we just that moment "saw it"!!
We got shorted a bit. No, let me take that back; we got shorted a LOT,…. because we traded an eternal redemption for a momentary salvation.
They reduce the Cross to be meaningless! It is 'without effect' to reduce the Cross to being something that only relieves us of the issue of sin and guilt upon our confession, our belief, our faith, ...

This is the Gospel mystery that has been passed over because of legalistic teachings and the lack of understanding of the most profound thing that has ever happened on this earth, and that is the redemption of the world through One Man because of one man " Adam"- which is us all.

Blessings...H

 

[thisistheendtimes]

Richard Burger, Compare "when the time had fully come"...with Ephesians 1:10......DIFFERENT phrases, DIFFERENT MEANINGS, DIFFERENT applications. "as a plan for the fulness of time".

I have mentioned it before but very few listen (at their own peril). People disregard what I write as 'mumbo jumbo' (fine, do as you wish) and then they spend their life spinning their wheels researching and studying GARBAGE. The NEW King James Version is SATAN'S VERSION......

http://www.1timothy4-13.com/files/bible/nkjv.html

I am not going to go into a deep explanation all over again (I've posted about the NKJV before). Why do you bother searching for TRUTH using the wrong version of scripture?. CROSS-REFERENCE all popular versions to get a better idea of each verse you are not sure of.

My version is the RSV (don't get a modern printing), but.......(do as you wish).
==============The following is a copy of my post from another thread here and it shows the meaning of the "fulness of time" (compare your "time" verses, they do not stay 'consistent').
============
A long "TIME" ago (before the foundation of the world) God predestined/elected us 'in Jesus',....

...The Father sent His Son to end the AGE OF TIME and start the AGE OF ETERNITY so that IN JESUS we would no longer have MERE EXISTENCE, but have "THE life" eternal (John 14:6)....

..."in the fulness of TIME" (the completion and end of time happened at the cross, Ephesians 1:10).

When Jesus walked this earth, it was not 'this present age'...Mark 10:30 "and in the age to come eternal life".

When Jesus spoke to the Pharisees 2000 years ago, He warned that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit would not be forgiven...

Matthew 12:32 "either in this age or in the age to come".

For nineteen and a half centuries, distorted understandings, discrepancies, and untruths (perditious beliefs) have been taught. Paul spoke against "sectas perditionis" (a "sect" is a group founded on evil belief).

We have only been taught "milk", we need a "solid food" education. 1 Corinthians 3:2 "I fed you with milk,.....".

It was very insightful to disbelieve in "church ages". Verses are from the RSV.

 

[RichardBurger]

You believe in placing yourself in Christ by your belief, but it is God who places us in Christ when we cry out to him, and then we must choose to abide.

You have shown clearly you do not believe in overcoming in this life. Is God too weak? Has he not made a way?

I have not placed myself in Christ. The Holy Spirit """has""". Placing a person in Christ is the work of the Holy Spirit. Man can not place Himself in Christ by his/her works.

According to Paul we already HAVE overcome by our faith in Jesus Christ, not by our works. The child of God has been saved by the power of God, a power that you refuse to believe, the power of the cross.

Are you going to continue to say what I believe? I have shown you to be wrong in your saying what I believe. People can see for themselves who you are.

Richard Burger, Compare "when the time had fully come"...with Ephesians 1:10......DIFFERENT phrases, DIFFERENT MEANINGS, DIFFERENT applications. "as a plan for the fulness of time".

I have mentioned it before but very few listen (at their own peril). People disregard what I write as 'mumbo jumbo' (fine, do as you wish) and then they spend their life spinning their wheels researching and studying GARBAGE. The NEW King James Version is SATAN'S VERSION......

http://www.1timothy4...bible/nkjv.html

I am not going to go into a deep explanation all over again (I've posted about the NKJV before). Why do you bother searching for TRUTH using the wrong version of scripture?. CROSS-REFERENCE all popular versions to get a better idea of each verse you are not sure of.

My version is the RSV (don't get a modern printing), but.......(do as you wish).
==============The following is a copy of my post from another thread here and it shows the meaning of the "fulness of time" (compare your "time" verses, they do not stay 'consistent').
============
A long "TIME" ago (before the foundation of the world) God predestined/elected us 'in Jesus',....

...The Father sent His Son to end the AGE OF TIME and start the AGE OF ETERNITY so that IN JESUS we would no longer have MERE EXISTENCE, but have "THE life" eternal (John 14:6)....

..."in the fulness of TIME" (the completion and end of time happened at the cross, Ephesians 1:10).

When Jesus walked this earth, it was not 'this present age'...Mark 10:30 "and in the age to come eternal life".

When Jesus spoke to the Pharisees 2000 years ago, He warned that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit would not be forgiven...

Matthew 12:32 "either in this age or in the age to come".

For nineteen and a half centuries, distorted understandings, discrepancies, and untruths (perditious beliefs) have been taught. Paul spoke against "sectas perditionis" (a "sect" is a group founded on evil belief).

We have only been taught "milk", we need a "solid food" education. 1 Corinthians 3:2 "I fed you with milk,.....".

It was very insightful to disbelieve in "church ages". Verses are from the RSV.

When I read my Bible I believe the words are there because God wanted me to read them. I believe that God has the power to talk to me, and all other children of God, through the scriptures.

Bible versions are just like any other writings and can be opinionized (new word LOL) by men to make them say what they want them to say.

The Bible is not the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit that brings the words in the Bible to light for the child of God, not for the unbelievers.

Man is not to depend on the wise and intellectual but on the revelations given through the Holy Spirit. That is why the scriptures tell us that man can never understand the scriptures without having the Holy Spirit. But I realize that most do not have the Holy Spirit.

 

[RichardBurger]

The children of God are taught the truth in God's word by the Holy Spirit:

Matthew 16:15-17
15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
16 Simon Peter answered and said,"You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
NKJV

Matthew 11:25-26
25 At that time Jesus answered and said, "I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes.
26 Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight.
NKJV

1 Corinthians 2:9-12
9 But as it is written: "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him."
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
NKJV

John 16:13-14
13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.
NKJV

Who is your teacher???

 

[Nomad]

Who is your teacher???

Yes, the Holy Spirit is paramount. However, let's not forget that God has appointed Human teachers for his Church as well. Those who disparage this fact are taking a lopsided view of how we receive and understand God's word.

1Co 12:28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.

Eph 4:11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
Eph 4:12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,

Heb 5:12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. . .