Speaking in tongues is NOT a gift
- Thread starter Rich R
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
the law was given to convict of sin ((Galatians 3 e.g.)), so by taking it away ((through our death in Him)) He takes away the condemnation of our sin
vis-a-vis overlooks our sin ((c.f.e. Micah 7:18))
in this way we are set free -- not because now, living in this unredeemed flesh, that flesh is perfected - but because He shows us grace in our faith in what He has done to atone for us. we wait eagerly the full redemption of our bodies ((Romans 8:23)) and amen we seek to rule over our flesh and subject it to good behaviour and deeds ((as Peter encourages)) but we aren't perfect in this present age and world and we will cast any crown at His feet, saying, we are unworthy servants who only did our duty ((Luke 17:10)).
the more i grown in knowledge of Him the more in need of Him i am aware of; the more i recognize more and more sin in myself - thoughts, attitudes, understandings, failures to be equal to His infinite glory. all of that is sin.
to me it is utterly ridiculous anyone could think of themselves as having no sin - the only explanation i can come to is that they have almost no idea what sin really is, thinking that by not drinking or cussing or fornicating or robbing 7-11's that means they are perfect.
but all over scripture, it's belief belief belief believe believe believe.
mercy mercy mercy mercy grace grace grace. no one is good but God. humble yourself, humble yourself, humble yourself.
i get that we are forgiven. that because His blood covers the true altar we are not condemned, but justified before Him, blameless -- but that does not mean i am ever comparable to His holiness. i am forever serving at His lovingkindness towards me, and nothing more: i have no good thing in me that isn't Him living in me.
Last edited:
All that really matters after I die or the rapture happens is this....
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Because that will be my lone defense as I stand before God.
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
To all:
There are those who deny the text in both the English and sometimes the original languages. 1 Corinthians 12:4 proves that tongues is a gift.
Then there are those who focus a laser beam on one verse or passage in the Bible while they ignore other verses.
For example: Some focus a laser beam on Acts 2:38 at the expense of other verses.
For some claim that baptism is for the remission of sins for Gentiles.
If this is you: I can only encourage you to read 1 Corinthians 1:17 several times in prayer. In fact, read the whole chapter several times in prayer. Paul thanks God that he did not baptize. Paul’s letter to the Corinthians is a later event after Pentecost in Acts 2. Paul writes to us Gentiles in his letters. Nowhere will you see Paul (an apostle) speak about how we Gentiles have to be baptized for the remission of sins. Why is that? Because Jews were believers already. They were supposed to be God’s chosen people. The Jews were being called back to God and they were not learning about GOD and or how to first be saved like Gentiles. They were supposed to know the truth of the Scriptures. But folks like to apply things that were for others in the Bible as if God was talking to us. Do you desire to build an Ark like Noah did, too?
There are those who deny the text in both the English and sometimes the original languages. 1 Corinthians 12:4 proves that tongues is a gift.
Then there are those who focus a laser beam on one verse or passage in the Bible while they ignore other verses.
For example: Some focus a laser beam on Acts 2:38 at the expense of other verses.
For some claim that baptism is for the remission of sins for Gentiles.
If this is you: I can only encourage you to read 1 Corinthians 1:17 several times in prayer. In fact, read the whole chapter several times in prayer. Paul thanks God that he did not baptize. Paul’s letter to the Corinthians is a later event after Pentecost in Acts 2. Paul writes to us Gentiles in his letters. Nowhere will you see Paul (an apostle) speak about how we Gentiles have to be baptized for the remission of sins. Why is that? Because Jews were believers already. They were supposed to be God’s chosen people. The Jews were being called back to God and they were not learning about GOD and or how to first be saved like Gentiles. They were supposed to know the truth of the Scriptures. But folks like to apply things that were for others in the Bible as if God was talking to us. Do you desire to build an Ark like Noah did, too?
Last edited:
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Personally, I'm trying to get as many people in the Church, that are not on the path to salvation to rethink their liberal lawless doctrines.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
This self-will righteousness of you ruling over your flesh is NOT the gospel. The gospel is the power of God IN YOU to recreate your old nature into a new creature.. Surely you have read more than you doing everything yourself. It is Jesus that sets us free; you're relying on your own works to overcome your sins. Yet you accuse me of works. Just the opposite. It is you doing all the work. I did nothing of myself, except WALK in the Spirit He gave me. And you accuse me of doing that. I don't. God's Spirit did ALL the work in my nature. I just woke up the next day with no desire to sin. I didn't do a thing of myself. BTW, this all happens while we are living. It is our spirit and soul that has been crucified and been raised up into righteousness. The only think left is our body that doesn't sin in itself, but is like a puppet with our spirit and soul controlling our bodies.
Post, This is a common error and misjudgment of God's holiness. God hates sin. The law was brought in because of transgressions UNTIL Jesus. Galatians 3:9 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made. Romans 7:13 shows this again. 13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.
Why until Jesus? You seem to believe (among many others of the same doctrine) that the law was the problem. No! The law was holy, it was the sin in our nature that was the problem. ONLY Jesus could take away the cause of the law being in effect in the first place - our sin nature so that with sin gone, the law would no longer be needed. I've asked you to read John 8:34-36 and if you had you wouldn't keep retelling the same error. It is those who are slaves of sin that will not inherit eternal life. Jesus takes away our sin and makes us sons of God. Now read this please:
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. (Free of sin, and therefore the law, not the other way around.) You are saying we received freedom from the law and its restrictions to show the mercy of God as we sin. Does that really sound like a God who hates sin? No. That's Him giving license to sin - a heresy.
This reminds me of the period in the Church a few decades ago when Christians were subduing Satan left and right. Their whole focus was on what Satan was doing. I don't worry about Satan. 1 John 5:18 because I keep myself, and know he can't touch me. I'm not struggling to get sin out of my life, I'm studying the Word and having the Author of the Word teach me the one and only interpretation of every verse of Scripture. My eyes are steadily on Him and I want to have all that He wants to give me. I'm living a victorious life and God is my total security and the love of my life. The only worries I have are not being able to convince any Christian who has been indoctrinated into the unmerited favor grace - the wrong definition - to learn the truth that can set them free. Grace is the divine power of God to free us from sin.
2 Peter 1:2-4
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
See, the last sentence shows we've been freed from sin. It is NOT INDULGING IN SIN WITH NO CONDEMNATION! THAT IS A DOCTRINE OF DEMONS.
Last edited:
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
post believes it is the law that was taken away, not our sin, so that we can sin without condemnation. That is lawlessness and the opposite of truth. They are for those who love to sin, and can't see that sin is the problem, not the law! Those doctrines of demons are what I'm fighting against. Their doctrines undermine the holiness of God. He's not a party-animal!
Last edited:
Never ever have I see ONE so blind and yet be so comfortable living in false doctrines.
Take account, we will all give account to Jesus, and those sad words will be said to many...........I NEVER KNEW YOU.
Take account, we will all give account to Jesus, and those sad words will be said to many...........I NEVER KNEW YOU.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
I , by grace know that the grace of GOD , of salvation cometh from GOD alone .
WHO do you think flipped me around and put the desire to know Christ , GOD upon my heart .
BUT know this , IF we are truly UNDER the grace of GOD , that grace of GOD dont have us pick and choose
some parts of scrips while omtting other parts . IT actually TRANSFORMS US .
IT actually TEACHES US to DENY all , not some or most or what we feel is right , BUT TO DENY ALL ungodliness
and wordly lusts and to be walking RIGHTEOUSLY , godly and soberly in this present world .
See the grace of GOD that comes from GOD and that brings salvation , PAUL and the writers of the new test WERE UNDER IT .
SO if they warned , IF they said IF , IF you continue , I SUGGEST we say the same things .
And not build our own ideals and acryonms and etc to build and make our own image of GOD . cause that image
always seems to pick and choose , it always seems to be okay with what WE CHOOSE to see as truth .
AND THAT AINT GOD my friend . Either we embrace all things in the new test , OR we are making up our own god as we go along .
AND that god , that christ and that gospel , IT AINT GONNA SAVE A SOUL .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
its true that many are gonna hear ON THAT DAY depart from me i never knew you .
SO my continual advice to us all , EVEN IF WE ALREADY KNOW IT and are established in the present truth , IS TO CONTINUALLY remind
us LEARN the biblical JESUS , LEARN what those apostels left us in that bible and omit nor change A WORD OF IT .
SIMPLY BELIEVE ALL REMINDERS , ALL WARNINGS , AND ALL PROMISES . TAKE upon the heart EVERY SINGLE WORD OF IT .
Now let all that draws breath both praise and thank the LORD .
As you already know a phone book jesus cannot save , BUT THE BIBLICAL ONE , NOW HE DOES .
SO beware of many who preach another jesus for they are MANY . LEARN thy bible well . EVEN IF WE have read it ten thousand times
KEEP IN IT and do so daily .
lots. big data; hundreds of millions of observations. MS in math
my day-to-day is linear algebra, stats, and linear optimization
my entire job is "objectively reveal the truth"
=]
Last edited:
i'm clearly not relying on my works. that's ridiculous given what i have written.
my works are dung, useless, worthless compared to the glory of God.
i am trusting in God who has atoned for me.
the difference here is that i am under no deception that there is any good thing in me, that is, in my flesh.
i know Who i have believed, and i know i am infinitely beneath Him.
it is sin for me to think i am without sin; it makes me a liar; it makes Christ a liar - it is blasphemy, because He is God, and in Him is no lie.
i am not judged in Him, but forgiven. blameless is fundamentally different from perfect; see again Philippians 3. Paul is "blameless" with regard to the righteousness that is by the law - not sinless, but having carried out the prescribed atonements and sacrifices. yet he has not yet attained; he is not perfected, so long as he lives in this world in this flesh.
this isn't 'indulging in sin' -- it's brutally honest self-examination.
it is the humility of knowing The Truth.
don't fool yourself - it is blinding yourself.
i love His mercy; and however much saying that brings the condemnation of the world, that doesn't mean i exploit it.
Last edited:
false.
the law is taken away from us because a dead man cannot be judged by it. Romans 7:1, for the 3rd time, great knowledgeable teacher.
sin is the problem, whenceforth the law, so that sin may be made all the more sinful. the law was given for the wicked to be condemned by it; it cannot save. saving isn't it's purpose; condemnation is its purpose. Galatians, the whole book. see the test in Exodus 16 that was failed - this is why Israel got what it was given in Exodus 20 through the rest of the Torah. see the end of Deuteronomy: Moses knows they will fail and be cursed. that's the entire point. the point is be the man in Luke who dares not lift his head to boast, but only confesses his unworthiness and pleads for mercy. that is the woman who is justified before God; not the woman who says "i am perfect"
because i rejoice in my salvation does not mean i love sin.
what is the the fifth time you falsely accuse me?
so clearly you aren't sinless. you sin against me several times, without repentance.
you call the message of the gospel given by the Spirit of God "doctrines of demons" for what, the 3rd, 4th time now?
please re-read Romans 3. there is no one who is good, but God alone - the Good Shepherd. you are not good. you are wicked. we all are. we need a Saviour, daily. if we don't think so we simply aren't examining ourselves rightly.
go ahead - compare yourself yo God -- think you measure up?? then you don't know Him.
you aren't sinless. you're blaspheming the gospel.
because all i have said is that i confess my sin, and God forgives me, and that i have eternal life because i believe Christ has come in the flesh and died for my sin, you personally attack me and impugn my character.
do you not see this?
your own words condemn you, while you claim to be without fault, equal to God. since this is so, your doctrine of 'sinlessness perfection' is manifest to be false teaching. you make yourself the enemy of the children of God, while claiming to be the greatest among them.
Last edited:
yes continue in faith and that sure hope -- The Anchor of our souls, amen
this faith produces works and produces righteous lives -- but let us never be under the deception our lives and works are worthy of comparison with Him, or that they in any way whatsoever merit His favor. reject all vanity!!
it is grace, it is mercy, it is His lovingkindness, forever - the glory is His and His alone always
Just as when our children were young we held their hand out of love, for safety and to make sure they didnt fall and hurt themselves.
Jesus does the same for us except sometimes he lets us go ahead and fall when we are in disobedience...........then we have a lesson learned.
His love is always at the ready when we turn to him !
Jesus does the same for us except sometimes he lets us go ahead and fall when we are in disobedience...........then we have a lesson learned.
His love is always at the ready when we turn to him !
when He says this, He says He makes us free indeed because He makes us sons and daughters -- we abide in His house forever.
if He was making us slaves, we would not be being made free.
my objection with you isn't about whether i am under the law or not, or whether i am under condemnation or not. clearly ((see the entire NT)) i am neither under law nor under condemnation. my objection is that so long as i am living in this body , in this world, i do not agree that i have obtained perfection or relieved myself of my need for Christ.
i need Him daily, "every hour i need" Him.
when you say that the 'true Christian' is completely devoid of fault, this is tantamount to saying Christ has become worthless - that we need no intercession, that we need no forgiveness, that we have no sin and that our lives commend ourselves to Him. this is not what i read in scripture, nor what i observe in my own life or my observations of the lives of others. we are under His grace and saved through His mercy towards us, with the promise and certain hope that He will redeem us completely, our minds, bodies and souls. the Christian life is that of Romans 7 - with a renewed mind & spirit that desires the things of God and which constantly wars against the desires of our flesh. is there victory? absolutely: as John says, this is the victory: our faith. i know that He will complete the work He bagan in me, because He is faithful. Romans 8:23 -- the completion is the final redemption of my body. if i was perfect, in my flesh, it would mean i need no resurrection. but as it stands i wait for resurrection -- why? because my body needs it. if i had attained sinlessness in my flesh, why would my flesh die? would that not make God unjust, giving my body the wages of sin that it had not any longer reason to be paid? God would then be an unjust judge! blasphemy!
but while He rightly judges my flesh, He commends my soul as righteous because of my faith: my faith in His faithful work. yes, amen, a finished work: the completion of it finished from the beginning to the end, yet to be revealed to us who live inside of time.
it is not, as you have surmised, that i am trusting in works - wow, not at all! and it is not anything even remotely close to me trying to excuse sin or seeking after it - wow, no!!
it is me with open eyes knowing and fully realizing that i am not equal to God -- that He has not made me equal to Him, and that making me equal to Him isn't His will. He has constrained me, so that He might show me mercy, and that i might love it.
you really think that means i'm not trying to live righteously before Him, just because i confess my sin?
it is exactly the opposite: because i recognize my sin, i seek always to minimize it. and that, not because i think it commends me, but because i love Him: He is my Husband, my Beloved, my Betrothed -- and as any good spouse does, i mitigate all offense towards Him i find in myself, knowing full well that i am who i am, that His love towards me is graciousness, that if it were not for His great love, he could not accept me. i am undeserving of Him; i am flattered, i am enthralled -- and that is far greater motivation than 'fear of losing His adoration' for the sake of missteps, to the point that i will walk with Him in honesty rather than in subterfuge.
were i to believe He would divorce me if i accidentally burnt His toast, what kind of Husband would i be supposing Him to be?
and if i swore i would never burn a toast or scald the milk in His tea, wouldn't i be speaking vainly, rather than in truth? it isn't because i never miss a crumb when i sweep the floor that He loves me. and because love is honesty, i don't lie to Him, saying i never do.
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
John 8:36
“If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
John 8:36 is a common verse quoted out of context by Belief Alone Salvationists to justify sin on some level.
Here is the context:
John 8:31-35
31 “Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.”
Verse 32 says that the truth shall make us free.
In verse 33, the Jews said they were not in bondage to any man.
Verse 34, Jesus says to the Jews that whoever commits sin is a slave to sin (servant of sin).
Verse 35, Jesus says that this servant (the one who is a slave to their sin) will not abide in the house forever. Meaning if a believer is a slave to their sin (until they die), they will not abide in the house of Christ forever. In other words, at the Judgment: Such a believer will be gathered out of Christ’s kingdom by His angels and cast into the furnace of fire for their iniquity or sin (See: Matthew 13:41-42).
Christ can help us to stop sinning. That is how we can be free from being a slave to sin.
For there is nothing that can tranform or changes lives more than Jesus Christ; That is why God's people preach the good news of Jesus Christ so as to be saved by Him. For Jesus has fixed up broken homes (or familes). Jesus has drawn the alcoholic away from the bottle. Jesus has helped the gambler to put down his cards and walk away from the game. Jesus has helped the drug addict from the power of the needle. Jesus has helped the harlot from being a slave to sexual sin and money. For Jesus Christ changes lives. Jesus changed my life and He continues to change lives today (Making them new creations in His image).
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
(2 Corinthians 5:17).
You said:
Actually, Romans 6 refutes this line of thinking.
For Romans 6:22 (NKJV) says,
“But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.”
Romans 6:18 (NKJV) says,
“And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.”
Last edited:
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
Also, in Romans 7:14-24: Paul speaking in the present tense of his past experience as a Pharisee who was under the Old Law (i.e. the Mosaic Law or the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole). Paul could not keep the Old Law before he came to Jesus Christ. This is why he is thankful for Jesus. For the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has made him (Paul) free from the Law of sin and death. The Law of sin and death is the 613 Laws of Moses. There is no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH (sin), but who walk after the Spirit. For Galatians 5:16 says walk after the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Galatians 6:8-9 says, “For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”
Similar threads
