What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

[Blue Dragonfly's]

#1, scripture bears out over and over and over that Jesus is God.
#2, God's Word is true.

Romans 3:3-4
[3]For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
[4]God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

A perfect verse to refute the naysayers of Jesus divinity.Well done.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Someone cannot be both of something. I cannot be both male and female. I cannot be both human and a horse.

But we're talking about God.
Humans,as with all things, are created through and for God.

Colossians 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

You believe there are limits to God? And his power?

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

How can this be if he was a created angel ???

Geneses records God creating the heavens and the earth. That doesn't mean there was no thing else created or that pre-existed the Genesis of our world and universe.

 

[Aunty Jane]

John 1:8

I think you meant John 1:18.... One of my favorites.

Joh 1:18 No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known]. [Pro_8:30]
AMP

Joh 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the one and only, God, the one who is in the bosom of the Father—that one has made him [*Here the direct object is supplied from context in the English translation] known.

Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen Hashem [Ex 33:20]. It is Elohim the Ben Yachid [who shares the nature of Hashem, the Chochman Ben Elohim at his side, see very importantly Mishle 8:30; 30:4)], it is he, the one being in the kheyk (bosom) of HaAv, this one is Hashem's definitive midrash (exegesis).
OJB


Joh 1:18 No man hath seene God at any time: the onely begotten Sonne, which is in the bosome of the Father, he hath declared him.
KJV.

Is it Son, or God?

It seems as if you have highlighted the wrong part of that verse......"No man has ever seen God at any time" is a pretty clear statement.
Do you want it to mean something else? How many people saw Jesus? Many thousands at one time.

What does the Greek say? Let me show you what the Mounce does with this verse....
"No one oudeis has horaō ever pōpote seen horaō God theos. The only monogenēs Son , himself God theos, the ho one who is eimi in eis the ho bosom kolpos of the ho Father patēr, he ekeinos has made him known exēgeomai."

Do you see something sneaky there? "Monogenes theos" is "literally "only begotten god" but that is not the way it is translated in most Bibles.....why? Because it means that there has to be an explanation as to how "God" can be "begotten"....someone who is "begotten" needs a 'begetter' who existed before them and who caused their existence.


1 John 4:9...NKJV
"In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him."

The pre-human Jesus was an "only begotten son" before he left heaven. How is Jesus an "only begotten son" among other "sons of God"?
He was the first and only direct creation of his Father....all other things in heaven and on earth, came through the agency of the son. (Colossians 1:15-17; John 1:2-3)

Now look how many translations insert "Son" when there is no mention of "Son" (yhios) in that verse.
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/John 1:18

This is trinitarian bias at its finest....."the only Son, himself God" is NOT what it says in Greek.

 

[Aunty Jane]

You can probably find examples of unchristian behavior in every denomination

The unchristian behavior is having sex before one is married.....the scriptures are clear...if you commit the sin and are unrepentant, you will be disciplined.

"I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.” (1 Corinthians 5:9-13 NKJV)

Discipline is the responsibility of the elders and they are held accountable for allowing sin to go unpunished in the congregation. God judges those outside....the appointed leaders judge those inside.

Hebrews 12:7-11...
"It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness. 11 For the moment, all discipline seems not to be pleasant, but painful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterward it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness."

Argue with the apostle Paul....and understand what it means to be a Christian.

 

[RLT63]

The unchristian behavior is having sex before one is married.....the scriptures are clear...if you commit the sin and are unrepentant, you will be disciplined.

"I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.” (1 Corinthians 5:9-13 NKJV)

Discipline is the responsibility of the elders and they are held accountable for allowing sin to go unpunished in the congregation. God judges those outside....the appointed leaders judge those inside.

Hebrews 12:7-11...
"It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness. 11 For the moment, all discipline seems not to be pleasant, but painful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterward it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness."

Argue with the apostle Paul....and understand what it means to be a Christian.

Let he who is without sin among you cast the first stone

 

[Carl Emerson]

Lucifer existed as God's angel before Genesis 1.

It was later after creation in Genesis 1 that he fell and became ha Satan.

Are you suggesting that there was a timeless heaven before the created chronological heaven and this special angel shared an eternal past with God ???

 

[Carl Emerson]

Genes records God creating the heavens and the earth. That doesn't mean there was no thing else created or that pre-existed the Genesis of our world and universe.

Are you suggesting that Satan before his fall existed together with God in eternity past ???

 

[Aunty Jane]

God makes Jesus God.

A direct statement please. Where does God make Jesus God?

You argue against God's words in both old and new testaments that testify of that fact.

Can you provide scripture that is not inference, or suggestion, stating what you assert is a biblical fact?

Even against why God had to be Jesus in order to bring the salvation covenant to life.

Well that's a new one..."God had to be Jesus"....not heard that one before.

The OP is asking why Jesus had to be God? I can give you many reasons why Jesus could not be God...

1) God is immortal and cannot die. Mere mortals cannot kill God. If Jesus didn't really die, then the redemption did not take place. (1 Corinthians 15:22)

2) God appointed Jesus as the only "Mediator between God and man"....if Jesus is God, then we would need a mediator between us and him too. (1 Timothy 2:5-6) Sin is the barrier.

3) If God became a man and offered his life for what Adam did, then the payment was way too much. Redemption means offering an exact amount to redeem something that was lost. The value of what is offered has to equal the value of what was lost....Adam lost perfect sinless life for all his children, so Jesus had to be the equivalent of Adam...a perfect, sinless human.....not more, not less. to buy back what Adam lost for them. He did not have to be God to redeem mankind.
1 Corinthians 15:22, 45, 47
"For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. . . . So also it is written: “The first man, Adam, became a living person.” The last Adam was a life-giving spirit. . . . The first man is from the earth.....the second man is from heaven."

4) There is not a single unequivocal statement in the whole Bible that declares that Jesus is in any way equal to his Father, who is also his God...even in heaven.
"The one who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name." (Revelation 3:12) Can God have a God in heaven? Is he worshipping himself?

5) Jesus said that "the Father is greater than I am". (John 14:28) Is God greater than God?

6) John 1:18 says that "No man has ever seen God" but thousands of people saw Jesus.

7) Mark 12:28-31..."One of the scribes came up and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one; 30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”
Jesus was quoting Deuteronomy 6:4, and the Jewish Tanakh has the divine name there...twice. "Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one".

8) Jesus prayed in John 17:3..."And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."
Jesus called his Father "the only true God" without including himself.

9) 1 Corinthians 8:5-6...Paul said of the apostles, collectively....."For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is only one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him."
The apostles knew who their God was because Jesus taught them about him.

10) John 6:38...Jesus said....
"For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me."
If Jesus is God then he would be doing his own will. How can one equal part of God have a different will?

Direct statements....10 reasons why Jesus can't be God.

 

[Johann]

This is trinitarian bias at its finest....."the only Son, himself God" is NOT what it says in Greek.

Again, your teachings are heteros, not allos, to what I hold and believe

John’s “high Christology” remains very, very Jewish, very much rooted in Israel’s scriptures. His chosen vehicle for his matchless opening statement, the logos, draws not so much on Platonic or Stoic ideas as on the living Word of the Old Testament, as, for instance, in Isaiah 55, where the word goes out like rain or snow and accomplishes God’s work (55: 10– 11). This work, God’s great act of rescue, rooted in the accomplishment of the “servant of the LORD” in chapter 53 and the renewal of the covenant in 54, brings about the new creation in 55, with the thorns and thistles of Genesis 3 and Isaiah 5 replaced by wonderful trees and shrubs (55: 12– 13). It is (in other words) the creator God, and it is Israel’s God, who has become human in and as Jesus of Nazareth. Once we get the speaker turned to the right volume, we can hear this clearly and hear it in relation to everything else, rather than allowing it to drown out all other voices and strands of early Christian music. With this as our framework, we should be able to read right through John and discern what he is actually doing. His Jesus is a combination of the living Word of the Old Testament, the Shekinah of Jewish hope (God’s tabernacling presence in the Temple), and “wisdom,” which in some key Jewish writings was the personal self-expression of the creator God, coming to dwell with humans and particularly with Israel (see Wis. 7; Sir. 24). But this Jesus is no mere ideal, a fictional figure cunningly combining ancient theological motifs. John’s Jesus is alive; he moves from one vivid scene to another, in far more realistic dialogue with far more realistic secondary characters than in most of the synoptic gospels.-( N. T. Wright, How God Became King: The Forgotten Story of the Gospels (p. 103).

“But Jesus never said, ‘I am God.’ ”

 

[Johann]

If God became a man and offered his life for what Adam did, then the payment was way too much. Redemption means offering an exact amount to redeem something that was lost. The value of what is offered has to equal the value of what was lost....Adam lost perfect sinless life for all his children, so Jesus had to be the equivalent of Adam...a perfect, sinless human.....not more, not less. to buy back what Adam lost for them. He did not have to be God to redeem mankind.

Seems you hold to the Orthodox Judaism teachings here.
You gave 10 reasons why Jesus cannot be God?

Tell me, how is Messiah "begotten?" Is He a created being?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Let he who is without sin among you cast the first stone

Argue with valid scripture please. You read the scripture provided and yet you cannot accept it. Why?
The appointed elders are to judge those inside the congregation if willful wrongdoing has become known. It is their responsibility before God to rid the congregation of leaven....which is anything that may corrupt others.
Sexual misconduct was a very serious matter under God's law, and since God does not change his standards, but humans do, we have to be careful to uphold God's standards and not the world's.

 

[Johann]

"No one oudeis has horaō ever pōpote seen horaō God theos. The only monogenēs Son , himself God theos, the ho one who is eimi in eis the ho bosom kolpos of the ho Father patēr, he ekeinos has made him known exēgeomai."

Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen Hashem [Ex 33:20]. It is Elohim the Ben Yachid [who shares the nature of Hashem, the Chochman Ben Elohim at his side, see very importantly Mishle 8:30; 30:4)], it is he, the one being in the kheyk (bosom) of HaAv, this one is Hashem's definitive midrash (exegesis).
OJB
What do you see?
You are so busy selling, but not buying?

I have a "Mounce" Interlinear and don't use it.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Seems you hold to the Orthodox Judaism teachings here.
You gave 10 reasons why Jesus cannot be God?

You don't have to be Jewish to uphold God's word. But it helps to understand that all the Bible writers were Jewish.
God does not change just because humans do. Jesus did not come to show humans a new God and a new religion.
He came to clean up the garbage that his people had allowed into their worship.
He came to usher in a new covenant with the same God, but the people were too wayward to accept him....and too wicked to reform.

Tell me, how is Messiah "beget?" Is He a created being?

Jesus himself said he was "the beginning of God's creation" (Revelation 3:14) He is not the 'beginner' but the "beginning".
He was the first and only direct creation of his Father....all other things came into existence by means of the son.....his "master workman" (Proverbs 8:30-31)

The son was "begotten" long before his earthly mission. And his Father is identified as his begetter by the mere fact that they call themselves "Father and son". Nowhere does the Father ever call the son "God"...and yet in many instances the son calls his Father, his God.

 

[Johann]

Direct statements....10 reasons why Jesus can't be God.

Fascinating, you don't believe Christ Jesus is God, I say He is, and you have a strong aversion to anything "Trinny"

 

[Johann]

He was the first and only direct creation of his Father.

So you agree Christ Jesus is a "created being?"

 

[Aunty Jane]

Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen Hashem [Ex 33:20]. It is Elohim the Ben Yachid [who shares the nature of Hashem, the Chochman Ben Elohim at his side, see very importantly Mishle 8:30; 30:4)], it is he, the one being in the kheyk (bosom) of HaAv, this one is Hashem's definitive midrash (exegesis).
OJB

What do you see?

The Orthodox Jewish Bible? I see a translation that is bogus. What are Jews trying on in translating Christian scripture?

You are so busy selling, but not buying?

I am not buying what you are selling...

I have a "Mounce" Interlinear and don't use it.

What has that got to do with me?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Fascinating, you don't believe Christ Jesus is God, I say He is, and you have a strong aversion to anything "Trinny"

I have an aversion to anything that presents God as something he never said he was. If we are found to be worshipping one who is not God then we are in trouble. We have put another "god" in place of the Father.

So you agree Christ Jesus is a "created being?"

Yes because the scriptures say so. There is no impediment to his being a creation of his Father except if you believe in the trinity...it is the only impediment.

 

[Johann]

The Orthodox Jewish Bible? I see a translation that is bogus. What are Jews trying on in translating Christian scripture?

Do you believe Christ Jesus is a "created being?"
I use the OJB, and what is going on here is bogus on your side.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Do you believe Christ Jesus is a "created being?"
I use the OJB, and what is going on here is bogus on your side.

If you say so....I am not here to argue...just to present the scriptures as I understand them....I let them tell the story.
I would never let a Jew translate Christian scripture because you know that the bias is there before you even begin. The Christian scriptures were not written in Hebrew and Orthodox Jews reject Christ as Messiah to this day. What have they got to teach me about Jesus Christ? Seriously?