What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

[Matthias]

Forget the "Triune Godhead for a minute, and learn who Messiah is

“Forget the Triune Godhead for a minute” = Forget God for a minute. That’s an interesting trinitarian invitation / approach.

 

[Matthias]

Then I guess I have my own version

One version of the Trinity is just as good as another?

That, it seems to me, turns “Trinity” into a meaningless word of the day.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Probably, though scripture doesn't say if they were created first before the earth, etc. Also some stars are so far away that their light wouldn't arrive here to be seen by us if only created 6,000 years ago. But God did create our sun and moon that first week. If just mentions that it is God that created the stars also (just not that week). If not and he was created during that first week along with the other angels, he didn't have a lot of time to gain a third of the angels to revere him to follow him. Satan committed his first sin in the Garden of Eden along with Adam and Eve.

The reason I ask is because I am uncomfortable with the idea that Satan was an eternal being with God before creation began.

I am not sure we know when Satan first sinned - there must have been a spiritual fall before the fall of man in order for Satan to be deceptive in nature.

 

[Johann]

“Forget the Triune Godhead for a minute” = Forget God for a minute. That’s an interesting trinitarian invitation / approach.

Interesting, you believe Jesus is a created being, not God, and you dismiss the links?
If you are not here to be helped in your journey to Jesus, Who is NOT a created being, then why are you here?

 

[Matthias]

This is a bold statement coming from a Messianic Jew, that in Christendom we don't believe Jesus is a "human person?"


Act 2:29 Brethren, I may say unto you freely of the patriarch David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30 Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins he would set one upon his throne;
Act 2:31 he foreseeing this spake of the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he left in Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus did God raise up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Being therefore by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath poured forth this, which ye see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David ascended not into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Till I make thine enemies the footstool of thy feet.
Act 2:36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly, that God hath made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom ye crucified.

Mat_10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

Luk_12:8 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:

confess. , Idiom F/S 828, "To confess" is used of abiding in the faith, and walking according to truth. For other instances of this idiom see *Rom_10:9; *Rom_10:10, 1Jn_4:15, lit. confess in me. Vincent states "The idea is that of confessing Christ out of a state of oneness with him. ’Abide in me, and being in me, confess me.’ It implies identification of the confessor with the confessed, and thus takes confession out of the category of mere formal or verbal acknowledgment. ’Not every one that saith unto me, Lord! Lord! shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.’ The true confessor of Christ is one whose faith rests in him. Observe that this gives great force to the corresponding clause, in which Christ places himself in a similar relation with those whom he confesses" (Word Pictures in the New Testament, vol. 1, p. 61). Mat_7:21, Jer_9:3, %**Luk_12:9, **Joh_17:23, Act_24:14, Rom_8:1 note. **Rom_10:9-10; Rom_14:11, 1Co_12:3 note. Php_2:11, 1Jn_4:15, Rev_3:8.


Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach:
Rom 10:9 because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved:
Rom 10:10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be put to shame.
Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek: for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich unto all that call upon him:
Rom 10:13 for, Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


1Co 12:2 Ye know that when ye were Gentiles ye were led away unto those dumb idols, howsoever ye might be led.
1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking in the Spirit of God saith, Jesus is anathema; and no man can say, Jesus is Lord, but in the Holy Spirit.

confess. or, may confess. FS108B21, +Mat_10:32, May confess translates homologēsēs, an aorist tense active voice subjunctive mood verb which means to say the same thing or to be in agreement with God (Lavender NT, fn c). 1Ki_8:35, Psa_40:10, +Mat_10:32 g. Luk_12:8, Joh_9:22, 1Ti_6:12, 2Ti_2:12, *1Jn_4:2; *1Jn_4:15.

The Resurrection of Christ
1Co 15:1 Now I make known unto you brethren, the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye received, wherein also ye stand,
1Co 15:2 by which also ye are saved; I make known, I say, in what words I preached it unto you, if ye hold it fast, except ye believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which also I received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 and that he was buried; and that he hath been raised on the third day according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:5 and that he appeared to Cephas; then to the twelve;
1Co 15:6 then he appeared to above five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain until now, but some are fallen asleep;
1Co 15:7 then he appeared to James; then to all the apostles;
1Co 15:8 and last of all, as unto one born out of due time, he appeared to me also.
1Co 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
1Co 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not found vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
1Co 15:11 Whether then it be I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

Are we in agreement @Matthias?

I’m not the source of the declaration.

 

[RLT63]

One version of the Trinity is just as good as another?

That, it seems to me, turns “Trinity” into a meaningless word of the day.

I'm more interested in what the Bible has to say than a definition. Trinity is just the best word to describe something that can't be explained.

 

[Matthias]

Interesting, you believe Jesus is a created being, not God, and you dismiss the links?
If you are not here to be helped in your journey to Jesus, Who is NOT a created being, then why are you here?

I believe Jesus is in some sense God.

Have you asked Jack why he is here? Blue Dragonfly? Other non-trinitarians?

 

[Johann]

I’m not the source of the declaration.

You believe Jesus is a "created being" and are you now casting doubt on the infallible scriptures? And by that I mean the New Testament?
I would suggest you go to the non-Christian forum @Matthias since you are here with an agenda, known only by you.

 

[RLT63]

The reason I ask is because I am uncomfortable with the idea that Satan was an eternal being with God before creation began.

I am not sure we know when Satan first sinned - there must have been a spiritual fall before the fall of man in order for Satan to be deceptive in nature.

We are not given a lot of information about this in the Bible

 

[Matthias]

I'm more interested in what the Bible has to say than a definition. Trinity is just the best word to describe something that can't be explained.

Then you’re not a defender of, an apologist for, the Trinity.

If you want to call me a trinitarian, you may.

Do you have any concern about that misleading others?

 

[Johann]

I believe Jesus is in some sense God.

Not only do you not believe Messiah is God, but that our NT is not inspired? Correct?!

 

[Matthias]

You believe Jesus is a "created being" and are you now casting doubt on the infallible scriptures? And by that I mean the New Testament?

No.

I would suggest you go to the non-Christian forum @Matthias since you are here with an agenda, known only by you.

I’ve already discussed it with the Board staff. They don’t agree with your suggestion.

 

[Matthias]

Not only do you not believe Messiah is God, but that our NT is not inspired? Correct?!

No. That is incorrect.

 

[Johann]

I believe Jesus is in some sense God.

Have you asked Jack why he is here? Blue Dragonfly? Other non-trinitarians?

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jn 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

What is your confession?

 

[Johann]

No. That is incorrect.

You believe Jesus is a created being
You believe Jesus is in "some sense" God
Elaborate...

Show me, in scriptures, why you believe like you do, not even Dr. Michael Brown would agree with you, and you dismissed the video clips as well.

You believe the writings of the NT as God's word?

 

[Dropship]

"Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God" (1 John 5:5)

 

[Johann]

I’ve already discussed it with the Board staff. They don’t agree with your suggestion.

The Board Staff don't agree with my suggestion? You are in serious error here, by making out that Christ Jesus is a created being?

 

[RLT63]

Then you’re not a defender of, an apologist for, the Trinity.

If you want to call me a trinitarian, you may.

Do you have any concern about that misleading others?

 

[Matthias]

View attachment 25840

Yahweh, Jesus and a bird representing the Holy Spirit.

 

[Matthias]

The Board Staff don't agree with my suggestion?

You can read it for yourself. The discussion was conducted, for just such a purpose, publicly.

You are in serious error here, by making out that Christ Jesus is a created being?

That’s not what the Board representative said. Read it for yourself.