What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

[Matthias]

You believe Jesus is a created being
You believe Jesus is in "some sense" God
Elaborate...

I’ve done so numerous times already.

Show me, in scriptures, why you believe like you do, not even Dr. Michael Brown would agree with you, and you dismissed the video clips as well.

I use the same scripture everyone else does. What’s different is the hermeneutics.

You believe the writings of the NT as God's word?

Yes. Yes. Yes. (Repetition for emphasis. No connection with, nor hinting of, the Trinity.)

 

[Johann]

That’s not what the Board representative said. Read it for yourself.

Where can I read this?

 

[Matthias]

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jn 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

What is your confession?

I believe in the one God and in his Messiah.

 

[Matthias]

Where can I read this?

In the “Do Trinitarians know their doctrine?” thread. The conversation is currently the last entries there.

 

[Johann]

Yes. Yes. Yes. (Repetition for emphasis. No connection with, nor hinting of, the Trinity.)

Is Jesus just a "Rabbi" of some sorts?

 

[Matthias]

Is Jesus just a "Rabbi" of some sorts?

No. The Messiah has more duties than that.

 

[Matthias]

View attachment 25840

Do you see only Jesus in the art? Does trinitarianism?

Persons who believe “Jesus is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit” do.

What do you think? Trinitarians who see only Jesus in art and trinitarians who don’t see only Jesus in the art? We might call this the “It’s all good” solution.

 

[Lizbeth]

Since God is spirit. Then what image was man made in?

Since God is spirit. Then what image was man made in?

You love to ask questions but don't seem to like answering questions. Are you born again? If not, you need to be.

 

[Matthias]

@RLT63

If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

Along that line,

If a trinitarian repudiates or contradicts the details of the doctrine of the Trinity and someone is there to hear it, is it trinitarianism?

 

[RLT63]

Do you see only Jesus in the art? Does trinitarianism?

Persons who believe “Jesus is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit” do.

What do you think? Trinitarians who see only Jesus in art and trinitarians who don’t see only Jesus in the art? We might call this the “It’s all good” solution.

I don't believe in United Pentecostal Oneness that says it's all Jesus

 

[Matthias]

I don't believe in United Pentecostal Oneness that says it's all Jesus

I don’t either, but if / when they call it the Trinity is it? Of course not.

How do we know? The historical doctrine of the Trinity precludes / excluders it.

My God isn’t the Trinity; neither is the God of United Pentecostal Oneness.

Whose God is the Trinity? The Trinity is the God of trinitarians.

Earlier I asked @Johann if a person must have the Trinity as their deity in order to be a trinitarian. He didn’t reply. Maybe he thought the question was rhetorical. The answer is obvious, isn’t it?

Here’s where I was going with that: Is Jesus himself a trinitarian?

 

[Peterlag]

You love to ask questions but don't seem to like answering questions. Are you born again? If not, you need to be.

I answer all questions that make sense to answer. Asking if I'm born again seems to stupid of a question to answer.

 

[Peterlag]

What do you mean, "had to be God"? That's like asking why the car in my garage had to be a car. The thing is, God said His Son is God.
You repeatedly demand a verse that answers a question that is patently ridiculous and deliberately evasive. You believe you are being clever. It isn't clever to come to the Bible with a preconceived opinion and a worldview that denies the obvious. There's barely a page in all of scripture that doesn't reveal Jesus. The holy Spirit inspired the prophets, and the holy Spirit did what the holy Spirit always does...
KJV John 5:39
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me .
KJV John 15:26
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
KJV Romans 8:1-9
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Your car is in the garage because of why...

a.) Because it's there
b.) Because you put it there
c.) Because you can see it
d.) Because you can prove it because it has tires

Or the answer I'm looking for which is so you can drive it to get somewhere. So where does Jesus being God get us to?

 

[Peterlag]

You're right. Not a single verse.
But the entire Bible of many verses.
We see that.
You don't.
We know this because you keep saying, show me, where is it, you can't post a single verse, etc.....

Meanwhile, there are pages of them.
But you don't see it.

Thank you.
For showing us the word is eternally relevant and applicable at all times.

Romans 8:7 the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.

Romans 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,g]">[g] in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

Again, no verse

 

[Johann]

I answer all questions that make sense to answer. Asking if I'm born again seems to stupid of a question to answer.

Not really, scriptures demands us...


1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


Confesseth not (mē homologei). Indefinite relative clause with the subjective negative mē rather than the usual objective negative ou (1Jn_4:6). It is seen also in 2Pe_1:9; Tit_1:11, a survival of the literary construction (Moulton, Prolegomena, p. 171). The Vulgate (along with Irenaeus, Tertullian, Augustine) reads solvit (luei) instead of mē homologei, which means “separates Jesus,” apparently an allusion to the Cerinthian heresy (distinction between Jesus and Christ) as the clause before refers to the Docetic heresy. Many MSS. have here also en sarki elēluthota repeated from preceding clause, but not A B Vg Cop. and not genuine.
The spirit of the antichrist (to tou antichristou). Pneuma (spirit) not expressed, but clearly implied by the neuter singular article to. It is a repetition of the point about antichrists made in 1Jn_2:18-25.
Whereof (ho). Accusative of person (grammatical neuter referring to pneuma) with akouō along with accusative of the thing (hoti erchetai, as in 1Jn_2:18, futuristic present middle indicative). Here the perfect active indicative (akēkoate), while in 1Jn_2:18 the aorist (ēkousate).
And now already (kai nun ēdē). As in 1Jn_2:18 also (many have come). “The prophecy had found fulfilment before the Church had looked for it” (Westcott). It is often so. For ēdē see Joh_4:35; Joh_9:27.
Robertson


Is come in the flesh
Omit. Render, confesseth not Jesus. So Rev. An ancient reading is λύει τὸν Ἱησοῦν annulleth or destroyeth Jesus.” The simple Jesus emphasizes the humanity of our Lord considered in itself. See Rom_3:26; Rom_10:9; 2Co_11:4; Eph_4:21; Heb_2:9.
This (τοῦτο)
Not this spirit, but this non-confession, summed up in all its manifestations.
Cometh
See on 1Jn_2:18.
Vincent.

Nothing wrong in asking a person if he/she is born from above, is there?

 

[Johann]

Not really, scriptures demands us...


1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


Confesseth not (mē homologei). Indefinite relative clause with the subjective negative mē rather than the usual objective negative ou (1Jn_4:6). It is seen also in 2Pe_1:9; Tit_1:11, a survival of the literary construction (Moulton, Prolegomena, p. 171). The Vulgate (along with Irenaeus, Tertullian, Augustine) reads solvit (luei) instead of mē homologei, which means “separates Jesus,” apparently an allusion to the Cerinthian heresy (distinction between Jesus and Christ) as the clause before refers to the Docetic heresy. Many MSS. have here also en sarki elēluthota repeated from preceding clause, but not A B Vg Cop. and not genuine.
The spirit of the antichrist (to tou antichristou). Pneuma (spirit) not expressed, but clearly implied by the neuter singular article to. It is a repetition of the point about antichrists made in 1Jn_2:18-25.
Whereof (ho). Accusative of person (grammatical neuter referring to pneuma) with akouō along with accusative of the thing (hoti erchetai, as in 1Jn_2:18, futuristic present middle indicative). Here the perfect active indicative (akēkoate), while in 1Jn_2:18 the aorist (ēkousate).
And now already (kai nun ēdē). As in 1Jn_2:18 also (many have come). “The prophecy had found fulfilment before the Church had looked for it” (Westcott). It is often so. For ēdē see Joh_4:35; Joh_9:27.
Robertson


Is come in the flesh
Omit. Render, confesseth not Jesus. So Rev. An ancient reading is λύει τὸν Ἱησοῦν annulleth or destroyeth Jesus.” The simple Jesus emphasizes the humanity of our Lord considered in itself. See Rom_3:26; Rom_10:9; 2Co_11:4; Eph_4:21; Heb_2:9.
This (τοῦτο)
Not this spirit, but this non-confession, summed up in all its manifestations.
Cometh
See on 1Jn_2:18.
Vincent.

Nothing wrong in asking a person if he/she is born from above, is there?

And my Momma taught me there is no such thing as a "stupid" question

 

[Johann]

Earlier I asked @Johann if a person must have the Trinity as their deity in order to be a trinitarian. He didn’t reply. Maybe he thought the question was rhetorical. The answer is obvious, isn’t it?

Friend, I hold to the Triune Godhead and firmly and irrevocably believe in One in Being Three in Person. Don't drag me into your discussions with other members.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

The Board may have given you a free pass in spreading leaven, God forbid. Hinei!

 

[Matthias]

Friend, I hold to the Triune Godhead and firmly and irrevocably believe in One in Being Three in Person. Don't drag me into your discussions with other members.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

The Board may have given you a free pass in spreading leaven, God forbid. Hinei!

You have a problem.

As for Jesus himself, he has a God and his God isn’t the Trinity.

Jesus isn’t a trinitarian. Jesus is a unitarian.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

People are always saying " SHOW ME THE VERSE" ,it's like the movie Jerry Mcquire, ......show me the money !

You cannot SHOW A BLIND PERSON ANYTHING!

It takes the Holy Spirit bringing conviction by the hearing of the word, [some ppl are also deaf,], heaping to themselves false teachers to tickle their ears with WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR.

Being blind and deaf to the Spirit and the Word is WILLFUL DISOBEDIENCE ! There is coming a judgment to all those of unbelief and to those who refuse to believe what the word states despite their claim that they are believers.

 

[Wrangler]

Then what are you???

I’m a Biblical unitarian.

Once you accept Scripture is the inspired word of God and read it for yourself, you realize you do not have to abdicate your reasoning mind and embrace mystical dualism.

To quote Galileo, I don’t believe God would bless us with a reasoning mind to forgo its use.

Scripture explicitly and repeatedly states God alone is the Father and Jesus is the Son of God (which is not equal to God the Son). Every epistle states this dynamic duo with no reference to a God the Holy Spirit person.

I find no reason to go beyond what Scripture says. Indeed, I find reason to stay in the lanes of what Scripture explicitly teaches. Embracing the 4th century man-made dogma of the trinity is fodder, not bringing forth the fruit of the Spirit.