What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

[Michiah-Imla]

The answer I was anticipating is 1.

Jesus is 1 being. Human.

If Jesus is a non-human being before becoming a human being then he is 2 beings.

I miss understood your question.

 

[Matthias]

Yes. Because God was the origin,creator, of humans. He begat himself within Mary because God is the only one that saves.

To beget a person is to begin a life; to bring a person into existence.

''Besides me there is no Savior.''
Isaiah 43:11 Context: I myself am Yahweh; and besides me there is no savior.

The OT verse that refutes that which insists Jesus/Immanuel/ was not God.

I’d like to hear your thoughts on Nehemiah 9:27.

 

[Matthias]

You're too late. We already have men claiming to be women and vice versa, and if you disagree you are transphobic. And there are some born that are both sexes but it is rare.
People believe differently than you about Jesus. You should accept this. Just as I have to accept that there are people who believe as you do. We're not changing anyone's mind. The discussions are good and some good points are made but I don't think anyone is converting.

How long do you think it takes for a person to convert?

I think minds will be changed. I haven’t been a member here for too long and my mind has changed on a few minor things. Is more change possible? I think so. Will I convert? I think it’s highly unlikely but not impossible.

I believe some people, be they members or only readers of the forums, will change their minds and may convert. It’s just a matter of time.

Whether or not any minds are changed or converts occur, a witness is given. There’s value in that.

 

[Matthias]

IF I were to convert, what would I convert to? Anyone care to hazard a guess?

 

[RLT63]

IF I were to convert, what would I convert to? Anyone care to hazard a guess?

There are lots of options

 

[Phoneman777]

Nothing I care about. Does not seem to have anything to do with the Christian that is grown feeding off the meat and not the milk.

I'm pretty sure that "man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD that proceedeth out of the mouth of God".

Are not those two verses considered part of "every word", and as such "Scripture"? And is not "All Scripture...profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"?

 

[Matthias]

There are lots of options

I’m not sure there are for me.

Trinitarianism? Roman Catholicism would be the likely landing spot.

Binitarianism? 2 down, 1 to go.

Unitarianism? I already have some things in common with the JWs.

Judaism? Lash me to the mast.

Messianic Judaism? Lash me to the mast with heavier cords.

Other? *crickets*

 

[Brakelite]

My point stands. He asked you for a verse. You told him to go figure it out (that you narrowed the search to 1 chapter changes nothing.)

These are the games trinitarians must resort to. They cannot see the disconnect between any actual verse in Scripture to their dogma.

He asked for a verse. Is there one verse that explains the way of salvation? Is there one verse that reveals the relationship of Christ to His Father? He asked for one verse. I have him 30. And by the way, I'm not defending Trinitarianism. I'm defending Christ's deity.

 

[TLHKAJ]

You couldn't be further from the truth. Jesus came to me as a child and revealed Himself to me before any person could explain who He is. He called me by name and asked me to follow Him. For 3 years, He revealed Himself to me and at the age of 13, I opened my heart to Him. He saved me and rescued me out of a family who was multigenerational cult. He filled me with His Holy Spirit, and immersed me in His Word till I filled notebooks upon notebooks of scripture as He taught my heart. I know He is God. You can't persuade me from knowing Him or who He is. When one has an experience with God, you can't take that away.

Psalm 34:8
[8]O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

John 10:27-28
[27]My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
[28]And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Yes they saw Jesus in his glory. If no one can see God's face and live how did Moses talk to him face to face?

If Jesus is God, then seeing his face should have taken out his three apostles.....it didn’t. Why didn’t it?

How did Moses communicate with his God “face to face”?
Numbers 12:6-8....
God said, “Now hear My words: If there is a prophet among you, I, the Lord, will make Myself known to him in a vision. I will speak with him in a dream. It is not this way for My servant Moses; He is faithful in all My household; With him I speak mouth to mouth, That is, openly, and not using mysterious language, And he beholds the form of the Lord. So why were you not afraid To speak against My servant, against Moses?” (NASB)

What is this telling us about the way God communicated to Moses?
“Mouth to mouth” and “he beholds the form of the Lord”......so what form did that prove to be?
In the tabernacle, the most holy compartment contained the ark of the covenant and above the cherubs the Shekinah light was seen by Moses who spoke with his God in that setting. There was also a cloud that this light illuminated so that the whole compartment was lit up. (Leviticus 16:2)
What “form” was Moses seeing?

On an earlier occasion when Moses was first called, an angel appeared in a burning bush and spoke for Jehovah. This was more than likely the Logos, who has always been God’s spokesman. What form did Moses see? When God says ‘no man may see my face and yet live’, he meant it. God ensured that his servants were protected from any harm concerning his communication with them. It is why he was always represented.

God’s dealings with Moses were so real that Moses reacted as if he had “seen the One who is invisible.” (Hebrews 11:27) Evidently the impression made on Moses was similar to the effect of the transfiguration vision on Peter centuries later. The vision was so real to Peter that he began to participate in it, suggesting that they should make tents for the participants.

And the apostle Paul likewise experienced a vision that was so real that he later said of himself: “Whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know; God knows.” (2 Corinthians 12:1-4)
We can take God at his word because his word tells us what we need to know. We just need to study it...or we will not know what it says for ourselves and can easily be misled by others.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Just ask @Nancy...she will confirm that I hate using emoji's.

But the new emojis are soooo good. They can lighten any heavy subjects.....

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

It is mystifying to me that they frequently do not deny that Jesus is the Son of God but that he is not God. I can't understand that. It is beyond my ability to comprehend.

Right, what does the Son of God mean if not that Jesus is of the same nature, God. We are all adopted sons of God, not begotten.

 

[RLT63]

I’m not sure there are for me.

Trinitarianism? Roman Catholicism would be the likely landing spot.

Binitarianism? 1 down, 2 to go.

Unitarianism? I already have some things in common with the JWs.

Judaism? Lash me to the mast.

Messianic Judaism? Lash me to the mast with heavier cords.

Other? *crickets*

I don't have any suggestions. I have been several different denominations and I'm not a member of the Church I attend now. There are some things I disagree with there but my wife likes it and the preacher is good. On the forum it can be difficult when people are challenging things you have believed all your life. There are some theological issues where I just have to admit that I don't know. The other forum I was on was really hard on Christians even though it was a Christian forum. At least on this one most people agree that there is a God. That's a start.

 

[TLHKAJ]

It is mystifying to me that they frequently do not deny that Jesus is the Son of God but that he is not God. I can't understand that. It is beyond my ability to comprehend.

I agree ....and upon reading this today, I see Jesus addressed this.

John 10:24-26
[24]Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
[25]Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
[26]But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

 

[Aunty Jane]

"I will be" is so inaccurate to a God that has no beginning nor end. I AM is right on the money of knowing what He is.

You don’t think that Jews can translate their own language?
“I will Be What I Will Be” has a deeper meaning than simply telling the Jews that he existed.....they already knew that, but God was telling them what he would “BE” or what he would “BECOME” in carrying out his will and purpose in connection with his Messiah. It began with Abraham and his descendants who would produce this promised seed. It shows us how God circumvented the failures of the Israelites from preventing his promise from being fulfilled by them.

How could his name be inaccurate when it has nothing to do with the fact that he exists. His servants have always known he existed. What they didn’t always know was how he would fulfill his stated will.

 

[dhh712]

I agree ....and upon reading this today, I see Jesus addressed this.
John 10:24-26
[24]Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
[25]Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
[26]But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

And it's the same concept in Matthew 22:45--If then David calls him Lord, how is he his son? The answer which of course Jesus does not explicitly say is that he wouldn't call him Lord if he was his son. He calls him Lord because he's God, not just his son.

And no one asks him anything more along this line because they also do not want to acknowledge that he is God--the same as these people here who deny that Jesus is God. They're no different than the Jews who demanded Jesus to speak plainly. He won't do that. If you aren't of his sheep, as God says a couple verses over, then you will not believe. He has not given them ears to hear or eyes to read their Bible. They are still deluded by Satan. Jesus just about plainly speaks that himself in those verses.

We must pray for these sorely deluded people that they will come to the one True and Living God the Lord Jesus Christ.

Like I and a lot of other people on this thread have been saying, it's all over the place in God's revelation of himself. Only those who are severely deluded by Satan would not be able to see it. And as God says himself in the verse you quoted, "But you believe not, because you are not of my sheep."

 

[Mr E]

I don't have any suggestions. I have been several different denominations and I'm not a member of the Church I attend now. There are some things I disagree with there but my wife likes it and the preacher is good. On the forum it can be difficult when people are challenging things you have believed all your life. There are some theological issues where I just have to admit that I don't know. The other forum I was on was really hard on Christians even though it was a Christian forum. At least on this one most people agree that there is a God. That's a start.

That's truly wonderful. Admitting that there is much that we just don't know is the first step toward learning something new. Most folks never pick up anything new because even when they see something they just walk on by because their pockets are full (of ideas) leaving no space. There was no room at the "Inn." You have to clear out the temple to make space for whatever comes next.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I agree ....and upon reading this today, I see Jesus addressed this.

John 10:24-26
[24]Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
[25]Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
[26]But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

This is what I constantly see.....you are putting a completely different spin on Jesus’ words there....
What were the Jews asking him? Did they ask if he was “God” or whether he was “the Christ”....the Messiah....the “anointed one”? Were the Jews expecting their Messiah to be God incarnate? Hardly.

Jesus said he was the one that they were expecting, but they didn’t believe him....he told them to observe the works that he did in his Father’s name, because these would bear witness about who he was. So what was it that prevented them from acknowledging him as the Messiah?.....”they were none of his sheep”. Their ears were blocked by their indoctrination and they continued to be “deaf” until they had committed the ultimate act of betrayal.... along with the deafness, was a blindness that Paul spoke of....(2 Corinthians 4:3-4)

Do those who exhibit this blindness know that they are blind? Apparently not, and right up to the judgment they will continue to be oblivious to the truth because ‘no one can come to the Christ without an invitation from his Father’. (Matthew 7:21-23; John 6:65) Unless our eyes and ears are opened by God himself, no one will believe that the truth is the truth. The deceiver will make it seem like lies, just like he did with the Jews. Who did Jesus say that their “father” was? He’s had lots of practise.

 

[Matthias]

I don't have any suggestions. I have been several different denominations and I'm not a member of the Church I attend now. There are some things I disagree with there but my wife likes it and the preacher is good. On the forum it can be difficult when people are challenging things you have believed all your life. There are some theological issues where I just have to admit that I don't know. The other forum I was on was really hard on Christians even though it was a Christian forum. At least on this one most people agree that there is a God. That's a start.

That’s alright. I’m 99.9% solid on where I am. That’s a very small window.

 

[RLT63]

You don’t think that Jews can translate their own language?
“I will Be What I Will Be” has a deeper meaning than simply telling the Jews that he existed.....they already knew that, but God was telling them what he would “BE” or what he would “BECOME” in carrying out his will and purpose in connection with his Messiah. It began with Abraham and his descendants who would produce this promised seed. It shows us how God circumvented the failures of the Israelites from preventing his promise from being fulfilled by them.

How could his name be inaccurate when it has nothing to do with the fact that he exists. His servants have always known he existed. What they didn’t always know was how he would fulfill his stated will.

Which version says I will be what I will be?