What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

[Aunty Jane]

The ministry I was associated with had to pick up the pieces and give support to new Jewish believers.

That too is the ministry of Jehovah's Witnesses but not just in Israel....there are many reasons, often cultural ones where turning from your ancestral worship brings ostracism.
The other problem, like it was in the first century, is that those who purport to worship the same God are often our worst enemies....
Jesus said....“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. 37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:34-37 ESV)

This division is therefore not unexpected, and those who find themselves at odds with family members or others over their loyalties will have to choose.....Jesus tells us how to view such a sensitive and emotionally charged situation.....we choose Jesus and the worship of our God as the most important things in life. Family pressure should not move us to abandon what we know is the truth.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Is this in response to my post #1920?

“Does this tell you that Jesus is God?” - Yes

“Does this tell you that Jesus is the Father?” - Yes

“Does this tell you that Jesus is your God?” - Yes

“Does this tell you that Jesus is the Trinity?” - Yes

“What does it tell a Jew?” - It doesn’t concern you in the slightest.



Does the ministry you were associated with assert and affirm orthodoxy?

I doubt if they even thought of it - it was a matter of mucking in and loving people who had met the Messiah.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Nothing is to heavy, its not a good example of the nature.

Moses was struggling and the suggestion to seek the help of other qualified men was not rejected by Yahweh.....he facilitated the transfer of his spirit from Moses to the 70....the right amount appropriate for the task....not too much nor too little. And Moses still had enough of God's spirit to lead his people through the wilderness for 40 years. He was 80 years old when God called him and 120 when he died, yet he did not get to live in the Promised Land.

 

[Matthias]

I doubt if they even thought of it - it was a matter of mucking in and loving people who had met the Messiah.

Thanks.

The time frame of your work with that ministry in Israel is the same time frame for the publication of Harold O.J. Brown’s book, Heresies: Heresy And Orthodoxy In The History Of The Church.

Orthodoxy was once everything in the Church. There was a time when failure to assert and affirm it would cost a person his life at the hands of Christian magistrates, with the knowledge, approval and thanks of Church authorities (both Catholic and Protestant.)

Times change. The bloom is off the orthodox rose.

 

[Peterlag]

Then both Paul and Apollos was one, same Spirit within them.

Yes they were both one in Christ.

 

[Peterlag]

It seems to be an understanding that only God can forgive sins because he's the one who is sinned against. It's not anyone's else's place to forgive a sin against God. Like if someone beat up my Mom, is my next-door neighbor going to say to me that she's forgiven the assailant's sin against my Mom? How can she do that? My Mom has to be the one to forgive the assailant.

If logic does not contradict the Bible, it must be used in interpretation of it. God has gifted us with the use of logic in order that we are able to understand his revelation of himself which he gave to us. I also feel there is nothing in God's word that says that someone else other than him can forgive sins. If there is, I would like to be directed to it. But in the example I gave above it is illogical to have an understanding that a third party can forgive a transgression between a victim and an assailant. Do you see the impossibility of forgiving a transgression that is not done unto you but against someone else? There is no reconciliation that way because the offended party and the offender are not brought together.

Maybe Deuteronomy 32:39 might be what you're looking for: "Now see that I, even I, am He, and there is no God besides me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; Nor is there anyone who can deliver from my hand."

The deliverance of course is from the wrath of God against our transgressions.

No disrespect to your logic. But I'm a biblical guy and I only look for what is written. And Jesus who the Bible calls the son of God said even before he was made both Lord and Christ that he could forgive sins.

 

[Peterlag]

The following paragraphs with links illustrate your folly based on your writings.

It is necessary to believe that Jesus is God in order to enter Heaven because Lord Jesus says "unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins" (John 8:24) - and there's more about "I AM" and much Apostolic testimony that Jesus is God in this linked post. Jesus is YHWH God according to consistent Apostolic testimony, yet you deny Jesus because you deny consistent Apostolic testimony about Jesus being God.

You're question deceitfully starts with a non-sequitor because NO scripture states Jesus was "made". God says Jesus is God, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom" (Hebrews 1:8). THE WORD OF GOD DECLARES THAT JESUS IS TRULY MAN AND THAT JESUS IS TRULY GOD! You are a deceiver who thinks Jesus is not God, so you are a disbeliever preaching everlasting punishment unto yourself and your followers (Matthew 25:46).

So does that mean you cannot or will not give a verse that tells us why Jesus had to be God? Not that the Bible says he is God, but why he God had to come to the earth? Why? What was the reason for God to come?

 

[Kermos]

So does that mean you cannot or will not give a verse that tells us why Jesus had to be God? Not that the Bible says he is God, but why he God had to come to the earth? Why? What was the reason for God to come?

The following paragraphs with links illustrate your folly, your foolish question, found in your writings.

It is necessary to believe that Jesus is God in order to enter Heaven because Lord Jesus says "unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins" (John 8:24) - and there's more about "I AM" and much Apostolic testimony that Jesus is God in this linked post. Jesus is YHWH God according to consistent Apostolic testimony, yet you deny Jesus because you deny consistent Apostolic testimony about Jesus being God.

You're question deceitfully starts with a non-sequitor because NO scripture states Jesus was "made". God says Jesus is God, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom" (Hebrews 1:8). THE WORD OF GOD DECLARES THAT JESUS IS TRULY MAN AND THAT JESUS IS TRULY GOD! You are a deceiver who thinks Jesus is not God, so you are a disbeliever preaching everlasting punishment unto yourself and your followers (Matthew 25:46).

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Jesus is God with us per the Apostle (Matthew 1:23), so Jesus is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8)!

 

[Matthias]

The parent(s) of Ithiel (“God is with me”) didn’t believe their son was God.

Immanuel (“God is with us”) doesn’t mean that Jesus is God himself. The name is symbolic and means that in his life God has intervened to save his people.

 

[RLT63]

The parent(s) of Ithiel (“God is with me”) didn’t believe their son was God.

God is with me is not the same as God with us though

 

[Matthias]

God is with me is not the same as God with us though

The point is that the name doesn’t identify the person as God himself.

God with me or God with us?

 

[Aunty Jane]

So does that mean you cannot or will not give a verse that tells us why Jesus had to be God? Not that the Bible says he is God, but why he God had to come to the earth? Why? What was the reason for God to come?

He only has a one track mind.....and can't see past "I AM".....but he fails to understand what God's name is.....it was never a statement about his existence because his people already knew who the God of their forefathers was.....they just had to get to know him in the extension of what his name meant...not "I AM"....but "I Will Be What I Will Be"....it was a statement of his intentions towards his people and the revealing of the "seed" of Abraham.

But unfortunately the groove is so ingrained that there is no seeing past it. God never said "I AM" was his name.

Here it is from The Complete Jewish Bible....

"And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?" יגוַיֹּ֨אמֶר משֶׁ֜ה אֶל־הָֽאֱלֹהִ֗ים הִנֵּ֨ה אָֽנֹכִ֣י בָא֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ וְאָֽמַרְתִּ֣י לָהֶ֔ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י אֲבֽוֹתֵיכֶ֖ם שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם וְאָֽמְרוּ־לִ֣י מַה־שְּׁמ֔וֹ מָ֥ה אֹמַ֖ר אֲלֵהֶֽם:


14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'" ידוַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־משֶׁ֔ה אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר כֹּ֤ה תֹאמַר֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה שְׁלָחַ֥נִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם:


15 And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation. טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר:" (Exodus 3:13-15)

He has no excuse.....

 

[Matthias]

The child born soon after the sign (Isaiah 7:10-16) was given by Isaiah in the days of King Ahaz would also have been God himself if it is insisted that the name means that the bearer is literally God himself.

 

[RLT63]

The child born soon after the sign (Isaiah 7:10-16) was given by Isaiah in the days of King Ahaz would also have been God himself if it is insisted that the name means that the bearer is literally God himself.

Mathew tells us that Jesus fulfilled this prophecy.

 

[Matthias]

Mathew tells us that Jesus fulfilled this prophecy.

Yes. Dual fulfillment is quite common in scripture.

 

[Matthias]

God [is] with me / God [is] with us, in the life of Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah, the Son of God.

God has intervened - he has sent me / sent us a savior - to save his people. That’s God’s MO (Nehemiah 9:27).

 

[atpollard]

I can't get anyone to answer this honest question. All I get back is because the Bible says so. But there must be a reason for it. What is it?
[snip]
Now it's your turn. Anyone?

Can we MAKE Jesus anything?
Is that really within our power?

What benefit is it for us to MAKE the sun the center of the solar system? We should make the earth the center of the solar system. [except, of course, we have no power to make the sun or the earth the center of the solar system. We can only acknowledge the reality that the sun is the center of the solar system and Jesus is God … or we can play the fool and lie to ourselves.]

 

[Phoneman777]

The context is clear even starting back in chapter 3 that there are false Prophets who do not confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. Those are the wrong spirits. The right spirit will confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh.

What about the ones who will confess He has come in the flesh, but proceed to preach against Scripture? Even the Roman Catholic church claims Jesus came "in the flesh" and they are completely off base Scripturally. That's why we need to "despise not prophesyings, prove all things, hold fast to that which is good".

 

[farouk]

Can we MAKE Jesus anything?
Is that really within our power?

What benefit is it for us to MAKE the sun the center of the solar system? We should make the earth the center of the solar system. [except, of course, we have no power to make the sun or the earth the center of the solar system. We can only acknowledge the reality that the sun is the center of the solar system and Jesus is God … or we can play the fool and lie to ourselves.]

@atpollard Good to stick with the record in Scripture of how the Lord Jesus is revealed.

 

[Matthias]

“For anyone of the house of Israel or of the immigrants who stay in Israel who separates himself from Me, sets up his idols in his heart, puts right before his face the stumbling block of his iniquity, and then comes to the prophet to inquire Me for himself, I the LORD will be brought to answer him in My own person.”

(Ezekiel 14:7, NASB)

NASB is the only translation on the Bible Gateway site which contains the phrase “My own person.” NABRE contains the phrase “in person.” Other translations say “myself” or “personally”.

It catches my eye and causes me to wonder why not “My own persons,” “in persons,” “myselfs” or “tri-personally” if the LORD (Yahweh) is three persons.

Any thoughts on it @RLT63?