What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

[BeyondET]

Moses was struggling and the suggestion to seek the help of other qualified men was not rejected by Yahweh.....he facilitated the transfer of his spirit from Moses to the 70....the right amount appropriate for the task....not too much nor too little. And Moses still had enough of God's spirit to lead his people through the wilderness for 40 years. He was 80 years old when God called him and 120 when he died, yet he did not get to live in the Promised Land.

But the Son the Father the Holy Spirit do not struggle with such things thus is why i mentioned not being an example of the nature of God.

 

[Peterlag]

What about the ones who will confess He has come in the flesh, but proceed to preach against Scripture? Even the Roman Catholic church claims Jesus came "in the flesh" and they are completely off base Scripturally. That's why we need to "despise not prophesyings, prove all things, hold fast to that which is good".

Now you got me looking at this...

1 John 4:1-2
... Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God:...

Do the Catholics believe Jesus Christ came in the flesh? Or do they really believe he's some kind of spirit? A spirit man who has dropped down into a flesh body but is really a spirit or spirit man... a god-man that is also the holy spirit?

 

[Peterlag]

1 John 4:1-2
... Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God:...

Do you believe Jesus Christ came in the flesh? Or do you believe he's some kind of a spirit? A spirit man who has dropped down into a flesh body, but is really a spirit or spirit man... a god-man that is also the holy spirit?

 

[Peterlag]

Can we MAKE Jesus anything?
Is that really within our power?

What benefit is it for us to MAKE the sun the center of the solar system? We should make the earth the center of the solar system. [except, of course, we have no power to make the sun or the earth the center of the solar system. We can only acknowledge the reality that the sun is the center of the solar system and Jesus is God … or we can play the fool and lie to ourselves.]

Even the devil spirits asked Jesus "why have you come?"

 

[Peterlag]

He only has a one track mind.....and can't see past "I AM".....but he fails to understand what God's name is.....it was never a statement about his existence because his people already knew who the God of their forefathers was.....they just had to get to know him in the extension of what his name meant...not "I AM"....but "I Will Be What I Will Be"....it was a statement of his intentions towards his people and the revealing of the "seed" of Abraham.

But unfortunately the groove is so ingrained that there is no seeing past it. God never said "I AM" was his name.

Here it is from The Complete Jewish Bible....

"And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?" יגוַיֹּ֨אמֶר משֶׁ֜ה אֶל־הָֽאֱלֹהִ֗ים הִנֵּ֨ה אָֽנֹכִ֣י בָא֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ וְאָֽמַרְתִּ֣י לָהֶ֔ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י אֲבֽוֹתֵיכֶ֖ם שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם וְאָֽמְרוּ־לִ֣י מַה־שְּׁמ֔וֹ מָ֥ה אֹמַ֖ר אֲלֵהֶֽם:


14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'" ידוַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־משֶׁ֔ה אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר כֹּ֤ה תֹאמַר֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה שְׁלָחַ֥נִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם:


15 And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation. טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר:" (Exodus 3:13-15)

He has no excuse.....

Even the devil spirits ask him "why have you come?"

 

[Peterlag]

The following paragraphs with links illustrate your folly, your foolish question, found in your writings.

It is necessary to believe that Jesus is God in order to enter Heaven because Lord Jesus says "unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins" (John 8:24) - and there's more about "I AM" and much Apostolic testimony that Jesus is God in this linked post. Jesus is YHWH God according to consistent Apostolic testimony, yet you deny Jesus because you deny consistent Apostolic testimony about Jesus being God.

You're question deceitfully starts with a non-sequitor because NO scripture states Jesus was "made". God says Jesus is God, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom" (Hebrews 1:8). THE WORD OF GOD DECLARES THAT JESUS IS TRULY MAN AND THAT JESUS IS TRULY GOD! You are a deceiver who thinks Jesus is not God, so you are a disbeliever preaching everlasting punishment unto yourself and your followers (Matthew 25:46).

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Jesus is God with us per the Apostle (Matthew 1:23), so Jesus is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8)!

Here's a little on how I see John 8:58 that you mention...

The phrase "I am" occurs many other times in the New Testament and is often translated as "I am he" or I am the one I claim to be. Mark 11:36; Luke 21:8; John 13:19, 18:5, 6 and 8. "It is I" Matthew 14:27; Mark 6:50; John 6:20. ...I am the one I clam to be..." John 8:24 and 28. It is obvious that these translations are quite correct and it is interesting that the phrase is translated as "I am" only in John 8:58. If the phrase in John 8:58 were translated "I am he" or "I am the one" like all the others, it would be easier to see that Christ was speaking of himself as the Messiah of God (as indeed he was) spoken of throughout the Old Testament.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Why should there be anyone to question whether the "Word" here is fully divine or not, when we know it's referring to Jesus, Who Himself says He's the "I AM", the Creator God of the OT?

He never said "I am God", because Jesus never once called himself YHWH.....God has only one name (Psalm 83:18)....
Jesus has many names, but the holy spirit has no name at all.

Jesus never claimed equality with his God and Father.

Jesus as "the Word" (Logos) is one who speaks for God....a spokesman.....not a god/man.
Creation came "through" the son...not "from" him. He is the agency "through" whom God created all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

 

[RLT63]

Here's a little on how I see John 8:58 that you mention...

The phrase "I am" occurs many other times in the New Testament and is often translated as "I am he" or I am the one I claim to be. Mark 11:36; Luke 21:8; John 13:19, 18:5, 6 and 8. "It is I" Matthew 14:27; Mark 6:50; John 6:20. ...I am the one I clam to be..." John 8:24 and 28. It is obvious that these translations are quite correct and it is interesting that the phrase is translated as "I am" only in John 8:58. If the phrase in John 8:58 were translated "I am he" or "I am the one" like all the others, it would be easier to see that Christ was speaking of himself as the Messiah of God (as indeed he was) spoken of throughout the Old Testament.

Notice when it says I am ( he) he is in brackets or is italicized. That means it was added and not in the manuscript.

 

[Matthias]

Notice when it says I am ( he) he is in brackets or is italicized. That means it was added and not in the manuscript.

I am [the second person of the Trinity]?

 

[RLT63]

I am [the second person of the Trinity]?

I think the I AM statements are significant even though some here deny that.

 

[RLT63]

Even the devil spirits asked Jesus "why have you come?"

How did evil spirits recognize him?

 

[Matthias]

I think the I AM statements are significant even though some here deny that.

All of Jesus’ statements are significant.

You showed us your bias when you capitalized the phrase. Some trinitarian translators capitalize the phrase, just as you did. Some trinitarian translators don’t capitalize the phrase. The trinitarian translators who don’t capitalize the phrase aren’t inserting their bias into the text. They aren’t leading their readers to believe what they believe (and what they believe is trinitarianism.)

There is no textual reason to capitalize the phrase.

The whole biblical storyline revolves around the issue of whether or not Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah promised, prophesied, raised up and sent; certainly not is Jesus the second person of the Trinity.

“I am.”

You are what, Jesus?

“I am the Messiah.”

I believe you, Jesus.

 

[Matthias]

I am [the second person of the Trinity]?

What a trinitarian hears when he hears Jesus, a Jewish unitary monotheist, say “I am”.

 

[atpollard]

So does that mean you cannot or will not give a verse that tells us why Jesus had to be God? Not that the Bible says he is God, but why he God had to come to the earth? Why? What was the reason for God to come?

• But Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
• Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. He made Him who knew no sin to be sin in our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

That's why.

 

[farouk]

• But Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
• Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. He made Him who knew no sin to be sin in our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

That's why.

@atpollard There is a sense in which Scripture tells us "what?" and by God's Spirit then leads us to understand "why?"......

 

[Michiah-Imla]

“And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.” (John 12:45)

Having been reading all these trinity threads recently, this verse jumped out at me as I went about my reading today.

What a thing beyond comprehension the relationship between Christ and God is.

“Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.” (Psalms 139:6)

 

[Matthias]

“And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.” (John 12:45)

Having been reading all these trinity threads recently, this verse jumped out at me as I went about my reading today.

What a thing beyond comprehension the relationship between Christ and God is.

“Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.” (Psalms 139:6)

When I arrived at a facility back in my workings days it was common to hear someone say “The state is here.” I was an agent of the state. I represented the state. I bore the markings of the state. I acted with the authority of the state.

I was given wide latitude in what I said and did but there were times when I was told exactly what to say and exactly what to do. The words I spoke in those instances weren’t my own. They were words my supervisor (and sometimes the Governor) put in my mouth.

One day I delivered a message to a man who wasn’t thrilled with what I had to say. He demanded to see my supervisor. He wanted to know what my boss had to say about what I’d told him.

I told the man that he had seen and heard my boss when he heard and saw me. Then I explained how that was so.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@Matthias

That was a very good way of explaining how the relationship works.

 

[Matthias]

@Matthias

That was a very good way of explaining how the relationship works.

I’m convinced that it works the exactly the same way in scripture.

When people saw and heard the Messiah, they saw and heard the God who sent him.

I was my supervisor’s schaliach. No one mistook me for being the one who sent me.

The Messiah is Yahweh’s shaliach. I don’t mistake him for being the one who sent him.

When I see and hear Jesus of Nazareth, I see and hear my God. So did the apostles, I suggest.

 

[Aunty Jane]

• But Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
• Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. He made Him who knew no sin to be sin in our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

That's why.

It makes me wonder how two people can read a scripture and see completely different “truths”.

In the scripture you quoted I see a blindness that to me, beggars belief....

But Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
If Jesus said that “no one is good but God alone”, then he was not calling himself good (in that ultimate sense)...nor is he calling himself, God. He was speaking about his God.

Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
An ambassador is someone who represents a nation’s government or leader. Christ was an ambassador for his God and Father and spoke for him, not giving his own thoughts, but speaking God’s thoughts to the ones he was sent to....”the lost sheep of the house of Israel”.
Christ’s disciples were to be ambassadors for Christ, representing him to those they were sent to....continuing to preach the same message after his return to heaven. Jesus taught them about their “Father in heaven” who was also his Father. (Matthew 6:9-10)

He made Him who knew no sin to be sin in our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Who “made” Jesus as a sinless human being, so that he could redeem us, and we could “become the righteousness of God in him”? There are clearly two individuals here and one is superior to the other. Jesus is a “servant” of his God. (Acts 4:27) He was “sent” by his God on a rescue mission. How can a servant be his own Master?

Read Revelation 3:12 and ask how Jesus can still call his Father “my God” long after his return to heaven. Does God worship himself? Where is the Holy Spirit mentioned in John 17:3? Why do we not need to know “him” if we seek eternal life?

Do you never ask these questions? Do you just blindly accept what the Bible does not teach because you were told that it was true? Who told you it was?
How do you read so many scriptures without comprehension?

The trinity causes a blindness that does not allow the scriptures to speak for themselves.....the Bible gives us the cause of this blindness. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) The problem is that we have a common enemy whose agenda is obvious to us, but not always his methods or the ideas that he can introduce by means of the “weeds” Jesus warned us about.....these weeds would be growing along with the “wheat”. (Matthew 13:24-30; 36-42) When were they sown? How can we tell the difference?

The light of truth has gone out because lies masquerading as truth prevent that light of truth from penetrating the spiritual darkness that Christendom finds itself in. Genuine Christianity is demonstrated by its unity.....not by division. (1 Corinthians 1:10) How can the divided mess that is Christendom be representing Christ, when they base their entire faith on things that Jesus never taught? The entire foundation of the accepted Christian Faith is built on introduced lies.....but they crept in so long ago that no one questions them.....it’s time to question everything, because our lives depend on it. (Matthew 7:21-23) Jesus is about to present himself as the judge of all of us. Who will he reject as those he “never knew”?