What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

[Phoneman777]

Math is not your strong suit, huh?

I heard a preacher say if you try to explain it, you'll lose your mind, but if you refuse to believe it, you'll lose your soul".

"For if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall DIE in your sins".

 

[Peterlag]

God is eternal and was not born. In contrast to the eternal God, Christ is “begotten” that is born meaning Jesus Christ had a beginning. Jesus is never called “God the Son” in the Bible, but he's called the “Son of God” more than 50 times, and a “son” has a beginning. The very fact that Jesus is the “Son of God” shows he had a beginning. Trinitarian doctrine denies this and invents the phrase “eternally begotten" but “eternally begotten” is not in the Bible, but was invented to help explain the Trinity and is actually a nonsensical phrase because the words are placed together but they cancel each other out. “Eternal” means without beginning or end and something that is “begotten” by definition has a beginning.

We cannot approach the Bible with wisdom and “reason together” if we must invent and use non-biblical phrases to support our theology. The Bible calls Jesus the “Son” of God for the simple reason that he had a beginning. Jesus had been part of God’s plan since the foundation of the world, but he began his actual life when God “fathered” him and Mary conceived him in her womb. There are many verses where Jesus and God are portrayed as two separate beings and there are too many examples to list, but just to mention a few we can look at when Jesus told the rich young ruler that he was not good, but “God” was good. Also Jesus grew in favor with “God” and with men, and he told his disciples “Believe in God; believe also in me."

I find it interesting that the Church Epistles were authored by both God and Christ and we see this in 1 Corinthians 1:3 that says “Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” There's a lot of Scripture that shows Jesus to be separate and distinct from “God” which is what the people of the time believed and expected. The Trinitarian explanation of these verses is that Jesus is God and so “God” means “the Father” when Jesus speaks of himself and “God.” But the Bible never says that. It's only because Trinitarian doctrine asserts that Jesus is God that the assumption is made that “God” means “the Father” when Jesus and God appear together.

 

[atpollard]

Meaning you don't have a verse to answer my question.

Meaning: already asked, answered and ignored by you.

 

[Kermos]

Here's a little on how I see John 8:58 that you mention...

The phrase "I am" occurs many other times in the New Testament and is often translated as "I am he" or I am the one I claim to be. Mark 11:36; Luke 21:8; John 13:19, 18:5, 6 and 8. "It is I" Matthew 14:27; Mark 6:50; John 6:20. ...I am the one I clam to be..." John 8:24 and 28. It is obvious that these translations are quite correct and it is interesting that the phrase is translated as "I am" only in John 8:58. If the phrase in John 8:58 were translated "I am he" or "I am the one" like all the others, it would be easier to see that Christ was speaking of himself as the Messiah of God (as indeed he was) spoken of throughout the Old Testament.

@Michiah-Imla and @Aunty Jane both of you need a language lesson like Peterlag does, after all, you liked Peterlag's fool, anti-linguist post.

In language, there is (1) first person [I, me], (2) second person [you], and (3) third person [he, she, it].

The last two words of John 8:58 are first person, not third person. The words are "ego eimi" which translates using legal grammar into "I AM".

When you convey that John 8:58 would be correctly translated as "I am he", then your fool linguistics show in extreme clarity. YOU MIX IN THIRD PERSON WHERE THE THIRD PERSON IS NOT REPRESENTED IN THE SOURCE GREEK!

You all fight to stuff your words into Lord Jesus Christ's mouth to change the meaning away from the Truth that Jesus is everlasting - your words that are not there among Jesus' words; therefore, your words are your evil words that lead to everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:46, John 8:24).

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Jesus is God with us per the Apostle (Matthew 1:23), so Jesus is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8)!

 

[BeyondET]

It makes me wonder how two people can read a scripture and see completely different “truths”.

In the scripture you quoted I see a blindness that to me, beggars belief....

But Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
If Jesus said that “no one is good but God alone”, then he was not calling himself good (in that ultimate sense)...nor is he calling himself, God. He was speaking about his God.

Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
An ambassador is someone who represents a nation’s government or leader. Christ was an ambassador for his God and Father and spoke for him, not giving his own thoughts, but speaking God’s thoughts to the ones he was sent to....”the lost sheep of the house of Israel”.
Christ’s disciples were to be ambassadors for Christ, representing him to those they were sent to....continuing to preach the same message after his return to heaven. Jesus taught them about their “Father in heaven” who was also his Father. (Matthew 6:9-10)

He made Him who knew no sin to be sin in our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Who “made” Jesus as a sinless human being, so that he could redeem us, and we could “become the righteousness of God in him”? There are clearly two individuals here and one is superior to the other. Jesus is a “servant” of his God. (Acts 4:27) He was “sent” by his God on a rescue mission. How can a servant be his own Master?

Read Revelation 3:12 and ask how Jesus can still call his Father “my God” long after his return to heaven. Does God worship himself? Where is the Holy Spirit mentioned in John 17:3? Why do we not need to know “him” if we seek eternal life?

Do you never ask these questions? Do you just blindly accept what the Bible does not teach because you were told that it was true? Who told you it was?
How do you read so many scriptures without comprehension?

The trinity causes a blindness that does not allow the scriptures to speak for themselves.....the Bible gives us the cause of this blindness. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) The problem is that we have a common enemy whose agenda is obvious to us, but not always his methods or the ideas that he can introduce by means of the “weeds” Jesus warned us about.....these weeds would be growing along with the “wheat”. (Matthew 13:24-30; 36-42) When were they sown? How can we tell the difference?

The light of truth has gone out because lies masquerading as truth prevent that light of truth from penetrating the spiritual darkness that Christendom finds itself in. Genuine Christianity is demonstrated by its unity.....not by division. (1 Corinthians 1:10) How can the divided mess that is Christendom be representing Christ, when they base their entire faith on things that Jesus never taught? The entire foundation of the accepted Christian Faith is built on introduced lies.....but they crept in so long ago that no one questions them.....it’s time to question everything, because our lives depend on it. (Matthew 7:21-23) Jesus is about to present himself as the judge of all of us. Who will he reject as those he “never knew”?

Then no one should ever call Jesus good it would be against his teaching.

Jesus is not good only God.

 

[Matthias]

I heard a preacher say if you try to explain it, you'll lose your mind, but if you refuse to believe it, you'll lose your soul".

"For if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall DIE in your sins".

Did the preacher ever try to explain it?

 

[BeyondET]

Who said this below and also said do not call him good.

And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good, except God alone.

I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.

 

[Phoneman777]

Did the preacher ever try to explain it?

As far as I know, he died of sound mind

 

[Matthias]

As far as I know, he died of sound mind

Just wondering. There are a lot of madmen on the loose.

 

[BeyondET]

Anyone like to figure these verses out

Mark 10:18
And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good, except God alone.

John 10:11
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.

Is it not good to call him good but he can call himself good?

 

[APAK]

Anyone like to figure these verses out

Mark 10:18
And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good, except God alone.

John 10:11
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.

Is it not good to call him good but he can call himself good?

Well in Mark the context concerns the question posed to Jesus regarding eternal life and how to obtain it, by a worldly materialistic rich man. Jesus already knew the motive and thinking of this man. Jesus already knew this man did not believe who Jesus really was, or did not know what the Son of God should really mean to him and what he was about to do, and the meaning of the Cross, and knew not of his Father and his purpose for mankind and eternal life.

The rich man used the words 'good teacher' to either give lip-service to his casual belief in Jesus or to try and boost Jesus' ego as if he was just a wise man and teacher maybe as a prophet of God. Jesus struck back to let his know first who is truly good and that what he asked concerning eternal life is given via the the true goodness of his Father, to save through his grace and not the good teacher as he address Jesus. No man can give it without his God, only the one who is truly good. No human man not even Jesus as a wise teacher and the Son of God in the service of his God can give eternal life either.

(Mar 10:23) And Jesus looked around, and said to his disciples: How difficult it will be for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God!(NEV) It is the Father's Kingdom indeed.

Now the next verse does reveal that Jesus is also 'good' in the context that he is in service of God to bring his Father's sheep in for safekeeping to eternal life. Jesus must be the good shepherd as he is working for the source of all goodness, and truth, for and in his Father as one. Jesus is doing his Father's will to lay down his life willingly in love for his Father so those who believe in the purpose of his death, can become his sheep - and the shepherd is thus indeed good and true in executing this selfless act of agape love . How can he not be the good shepherd? He is definitely not a false and evil shepherd.

 

[BeyondET]

Well in Mark the context concerns the question posed to Jesus regarding eternal life and how to obtain it, by a worldly materialistic rich man. Jesus already knew the motive and thinking of this man. Jesus already knew this man did not believe who Jesus really was, or did not know what the Son of God should really mean to him and what he was about to do, and the meaning of the Cross, and knew not of his Father and his purpose for mankind and eternal life.

The rich man used the words 'good teacher' to either give lip-service to his casual belief in Jesus or to try and boost Jesus' ego as if he was just a wise man and teacher maybe as a prophet of God. Jesus struck back to let his know first who is truly good and that what he asked concerning eternal life is given via the the true goodness of his Father, to save through his grace and not the good teacher as he address Jesus. No man can give it without his God, only the one who is truly good. No human man not even Jesus as a wise teacher and the Son of God in the service of his God can give eternal life either.

(Mar 10:23) And Jesus looked around, and said to his disciples: How difficult it will be for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God!(NEV) It is the Father's Kingdom indeed.

Now the next verse does reveal that Jesus is also 'good' in the context that he is in service of God to bring his Father's sheep in for safekeeping to eternal life. Jesus must be the good shepherd as he is working for the source of all goodness, and truth, for and in his Father as one. Jesus is doing his Father's will to lay down his life willingly in love for his Father so those who believe in the purpose of his death, can become his sheep - and the shepherd is thus indeed good and true in executing this selfless act of agape love . How can he not be the good shepherd? He is definitely not a false and evil shepherd.

Psalm 95:7
For He is our God,
And we are the people of His pasture and the sheep of His hand.
Today, if you would hear His voice.

But have you are you willing

 

[Phoneman777]

Just wondering. There are a lot of madmen on the loose.

I keep telling my wife that if she keeps up with the aggravation, I'm gonna spend the rest of my days telling the prison psychiatrist all about her.

 

[Matthias]

I keep telling my wife that if she keeps up with the aggravation, I'm gonna spend the rest of my days telling the prison psychiatrist all about her.

Does she do the cooking, or do you cook for yourself?

 

[Phoneman777]

Does she do the cooking, or do you cook for yourself?

She does most of it - and works part time, as well, bless her heart. One day she asked me to talk about what we dislike about each other said she'd go first I had to listen to how she hated the way I eat and the way I leave clothes and tools lying around and I drive too fast and yada yada...then she said my turn, so I said just one thing: her mouth.............too much going in and too much coming out. Turns out, that wasn't a very bright thing to say LOL

 

[Aunty Jane]

I heard a preacher say if you try to explain it, you'll lose your mind, but if you refuse to believe it, you'll lose your soul".

Can you not see the veiled threat in there...? They can't explain it...Jesus never said it....the Bible doesn't teach it (except by inference or suggestion) and yet if the don't believe it, you're toast!

"For if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall DIE in your sins".

Misquote.....context is important...
The Pharisees were testing Jesus.....
"So the Pharisees said to Him, “You are testifying about Yourself; Your testimony is not true.” 14 Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I testify about Myself, My testimony is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from or where I am going. 15 You judge according to the flesh; I am not judging anyone. 16 But even if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone in it, but I and the Father who sent Me. 17 Even in your law it has been written that the testimony of two men is true. 18 I am He who testifies about Myself, and the Father who sent Me testifies about Me.”
So here we see the context...Jesus was showing these religious leaders that he and his Father were two separate beings who could each offer testimony to satisfy the Law of God.....attesting to who Jesus said he was....the promised Messiah. From the prophesies in Daniel the Jews were expecting the Messiah to come at that time.

"And He was saying to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” 25 So they were saying to Him, “Who are You?” Jesus said to them, “What have I been saying to you from the beginning? 26 I have many things to speak and to judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and the things which I heard from Him, these I speak to the world.” 27 They did not realize that He had been speaking to them about the Father. 28 So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me. 29 And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him.” 30 As He spoke these things, many came to believe in Him."

Does God go around pleasing himself by acting as someone else in another body? The way many read the verse you quoted, has nothing to do with what Jesus actually said.....there is nowhere that he was claiming to be God.

Look at the way it is rendered in other English translations...
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/John 8:28

 

[Phoneman777]

Can you not see the veiled threat in there...? They can't explain it...Jesus never said it....the Bible doesn't teach it (except by inference or suggestion) and yet if the don't believe it, you're toast!


Misquote.....context is important...
The Pharisees were testing Jesus.....
"So the Pharisees said to Him, “You are testifying about Yourself; Your testimony is not true.” 14 Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I testify about Myself, My testimony is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from or where I am going. 15 You judge according to the flesh; I am not judging anyone. 16 But even if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone in it, but I and the Father who sent Me. 17 Even in your law it has been written that the testimony of two men is true. 18 I am He who testifies about Myself, and the Father who sent Me testifies about Me.”
So here we see the context...Jesus was showing these religious leaders that he and his Father were two separate beings who could each offer testimony to satisfy the Law of God.....attesting to who Jesus said he was....the promised Messiah. From the prophesies in Daniel the Jews were expecting the Messiah to come at that time.

"And He was saying to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” 25 So they were saying to Him, “Who are You?” Jesus said to them, “What have I been saying to you from the beginning? 26 I have many things to speak and to judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and the things which I heard from Him, these I speak to the world.” 27 They did not realize that He had been speaking to them about the Father. 28 So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me. 29 And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him.” 30 As He spoke these things, many came to believe in Him."

Does God go around pleasing himself by acting as someone else in another body? The way many read the verse you quoted, has nothing to do with what Jesus actually said.....there is nowhere that he was claiming to be God.

Look at the way it is rendered in other English translations...
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/John 8:28

I'm not too keen on other translations, though I do consider them, because sometimes they're actually better than my KJV. However, the TR has it right: "For unless ye beleive that I AM, ye shall die in your sins". I can't but see Jesus is here telling us we've got to believe He is fully God sent to die for our sins, else we're indeed toast

 

[Aunty Jane]

Anyone like to figure these verses out

Mark 10:18
And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good, except God alone.

John 10:11
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.

Is it not good to call him good but he can call himself good?

When the word "good"("agathos") is used in connection with the Father, no one can compare with him. He is the superlative epitome of goodness.
But the son can rightfully call himself "good" in his role as a Shepherd of the flock, and as our redeemer. He carried out his Father's will and could rightfully say with his dying breath...."it is finished"....mission accomplished.

You have to understand scripture as the Bible writers intended it to be understood, and how a Jewish audience responded to Jesus. Its hard to translate one language into another and include all the nuances, which is why word studies are so rewarding.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I'm not too keen on other translations, though I do consider them, because sometimes they're actually better than my KJV.

I used to use the KJV years ago, and now I never consult it. After doing serious Bible study, I find it bends the truth to promote Christendom's ill conceived doctrines. Not a Bible I would ever use for study....not to mention the fact that no one uses archaic English anymore and the phrasing in that old dinosaur is just plain confusing to today's English speakers.

However, the TR has it right: "For unless ye beleive that I AM, ye shall die in your sins".

Jesus was addressing the Pharisees and he was not claiming to be God because "I AM" is not what he was telling the Israelites at all. They knew who he was, so he was telling them a broader meaning of his name "I will be what I will be" according to the Jewish Tanakh.
Exodus 3:13-15... https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9864

Jesus' disciples recognized him as who he said he was....
Paul wrote..."For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live."
There is no ambiguity in that statement.....Their "one God" was "the Father" and their "Lord" (Master) was Jesus Christ. They recognized two separate entities, but only one was their God.

I can't but see Jesus is here telling us we've got to believe He is fully God sent to die for our sins, else we're indeed toast

I was referring to the statement made by the 'preacher' you referred to....

 

[Wrangler]

How about you look at all the texts, instead of reading one and closing the Bible?

Because you cannot make up in quantity what you lack in quality.

The incessant claim that 'all Scripture' points to the inherently contradictory doctrine does not survive scrutiny when one looks at each verse at a time.

It's like you concede the verse under discussion but desperately attempt to divert attention to all these other Scriptures that you claim support your dogma. It's always elsewhere.