The Pre-Trib Rapture

[The Light]

How does this passage support the pre-trib rapture belief exactly?

You think you know when He is coming, and yet He says He will come when you think not. Do you not believe what is written?

The rapture will occur just before the wrath Jesus will bring down on the entire earth when He returns, as described in passages like Matthew 24:35-39, 1 Thess 5:2-3, 2 Thess 1:7-9 and 2 Peter 3:10-12.

Jesus sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth in Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
This occurs at the 6th seal BEFORE THE WRATH OF GOD BEGINS. The trumpets are the wrath of God.

Long story short, Jesus comes at the 6th seal for the gathering from heaven and earth. This occurs at the 6th seal. All go to heaven for the marriage supper and then they return to earth at the end of the marriage supper.

Rev 19
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

So, unless your definition of the "trib" in "pre-trib" refers to the wrath that will come down on the day Christ returns, you are contradicting passages like those.

I don't believe that you understand those passages. The tribulation is over before the wrath of God begins. Tribulation is not wrath. Christ comes at the 6th seal immediately after the tribulation of those days. Then wrath as the trumpets begin after the 7th seal is opened.

 

[Truth7t7]

How is it that you do not understand that Luke 21:28 (And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.) is for the Jews that will be on the earth during the 70th week of Daniel.

The Gentiles should be looking for these verses
Luke 21
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

The Church can escape all these things that will come to pass and stand before the son of man.

No such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in scripture that you suggest and promote

A false teaching of John N. Darby 1830's and C.I. Scofield 1909 better known as dispensationalism

 

[The Light]

No such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in scripture that you suggest and promote

A false teaching of John N. Darby 1830's and C.I. Scofield 1909 better known as dispensationalism

That's awesome what Darby was able to conclude even though there was no nation of Israel and hadn't been for almost 2,000 years. The dude was on point, for sure, though he was not the first.

 

[Marilyn C]

When I consider the Rapture of the Church, and when it might occur, I find a couple of things seem to hold true.

One is that there is no place that just says, it happens then, you can only know through the process of elimination.

Another is, after you've ruled out everything it can't be, the only option left is PreTrib.

One more . . . the more likely someone is to call something "symbolic", for instance, the 144,000 sealed Jews, the more likely someone is to call these things symbolic, the less likely to hold to pre-trib timing. The more literally Scripture is taken, the more likely someone will be pre-trib. These seem to go hand in hand.

If Jesus comes and first gathers Israel, and then gathers the nations to be judged according as He said, the church has to already be gone from the earth when the great tribulation begins.

If the Revelation is prophetic narrative, and when it says this happens and then that happens, that's the way it is, the church must be gone before any of the trumpets and bowls.

So to continue the one example . . . "the servant of God were sealed", John heard the number, 144,000, all Jewish men. No gentiles there, no women, and only 144 thousand of them. No church present on the earth.

Much love!

Well said there Mark,

We, the Body of Christ are the first rulership group to be taken to their eternal setting in glory. God is dealing with rebellious rulership, on earth and in the universal heavens, (Satan & his fallen angels). Once the highest rulership is in place then the restoration of all things will continue till the Lord has put down all rule and authority. (1 Cor. 15: 24 & 25). It is a process starting when we are with the Lord on His own throne in the third heaven. (Rev. 3: 21, Acts 3: 20 & 21)

Marilyn.

 

[marks]

That's awesome what Darby was able to conclude even though there was no nation of Israel and hadn't been for almost 2,000 years. The dude was on point, for sure, though he was not the first.

Yeah. So many couldn't believe the Bible that Israel would yet be there at the end, so they figured Israel somehow became the Church, and then it got all mixed up!

Much love!

 

[Truth7t7]

Well said there Mark,

We, the Body of Christ are the first rulership group to be taken to their eternal setting in glory. God is dealing with rebellious rulership, on earth and in the universal heavens, (Satan & his fallen angels). Once the highest rulership is in place then the restoration of all things will continue till the Lord has put down all rule and authority. (1 Cor. 15: 24 & 25). It is a process starting when we are with the Lord on His own throne in the third heaven. (Rev. 3: 21, Acts 3: 20 & 21)

Marilyn.

Jesus returns immediately after the tribulation in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

 

[Truth7t7]

Yeah. So many couldn't believe the Bible that Israel would yet be there at the end, so they figured Israel somehow became the Church, and then it got all mixed up!

Much love!

Jesus is the originator of your proclaimed "Replacement Theology"

He took the Kingdom and replaced Israel with the Holy Nation of the Church

Matthew 21:42-43KJV
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

The Church, An Holy Nation!

2 Peter 2:9KJV
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

 

[marks]

Jeremiah 31:31-37 KJV
31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Did the sun rise this morning?

Much love!

 

[Marilyn C]

Jesus returns immediately after the tribulation in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

Hi Truth,

Yes I agree that Jesus does return in power and great glory after the trib, to judge the nations of the world. However there is still more of God`s purposes to be fulfilled. Israel has to rule the nations of the world as the Old Testament Prophets foretold. That was Israel`s purpose, and God only had them on hold till the Body of Christ was brought to maturity of the truth of Christ and His purposes.

Then the Lord will come for His Body BEFORE the trib, as they will go to their eternal setting in glory to judge the world system and fallen angels. (1 Cor. 6: 12 & 3)

 

[The Light]

Yeah. So many couldn't believe the Bible that Israel would yet be there at the end, so they figured Israel somehow became the Church, and then it got all mixed up!

Much love!

And that is the rest of the story.

 

[The Light]

Jesus is the originator of your proclaimed "Replacement Theology"

He took the Kingdom and replaced Israel with the Holy Nation of the Church

Matthew 21:42-43KJV
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

The Church, An Holy Nation!

2 Peter 2:9KJV
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

And that is the rest of the story.

 

[Truth7t7]

Hi Truth,
However there is still more of God`s purposes to be fulfilled. Israel has to rule the nations of the world as the Old Testament Prophets foretold. That was Israel`s purpose, and God only had them on hold till the Body of Christ was brought to maturity of the truth of Christ and His purposes.

Then the Lord will come for His Body BEFORE the trib, as they will go to their eternal setting in glory to judge the world system and fallen angels. (1 Cor. 6: 12 & 3)

Reality Check!

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[Marilyn C]

Reality Check!

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Hi Truth,

I think you have gotten a bit muddled up there.

Peter says that in the Day of the Lord is the Lord as a thief IN WHICH the heavens get burnt up. The Day of the Lord extends from the trib, through the millennium to the NHNE. (2 Peter 3: 10)

The NJ is as a bride because of the glory of God. It is not the B/C. (Rev. 21: 2 & 11)

And the NJ descends to near the earth because the nations walk in its light. That means as the earth revolves that some part of the earth will receive its light. (Rev. 21: 24)

 

[Marilyn C]

 

[Marilyn C]

 

[Truth7t7]

And the NJ descends to near the earth because the nations walk in its light. That means as the earth revolves that some part of the earth will receive its light. (Rev. 21: 24)

"Big Smiles"!

 

[Truth7t7]

View attachment 26059

Israel Ruling Over The Nations On The New Earth?

Sure!

Zionism 101, Lord Of The Rings Next!

 

[Truth7t7]

View attachment 26058

No more day of the Lord alone, we now have the Day Of Christ, The Day Of The Lord, And The Day Of God?

You Forgot A Day For The Holy Spirit, Smiles!

 

[The Light]

Hi Truth,

I think you have gotten a bit muddled up there.

Peter says that in the Day of the Lord is the Lord as a thief IN WHICH the heavens get burnt up. The Day of the Lord extends from the trib, through the millennium to the NHNE. (2 Peter 3: 10)

The NJ is as a bride because of the glory of God. It is not the B/C. (Rev. 21: 2 & 11)

And the NJ descends to near the earth because the nations walk in its light. That means as the earth revolves that some part of the earth will receive its light. (Rev. 21: 24)

U R OK on the NHNE & the NJ. T7T7 AKA Sitting Bull, watches to much SCI-FI & UFO affecting his dogma.
IDK if at the EOD, he will understand that the AOD is inc. He should send an SOS ASAP.

 

[farouk]

Hi Truth,

I think you have gotten a bit muddled up there.

Peter says that in the Day of the Lord is the Lord as a thief IN WHICH the heavens get burnt up. The Day of the Lord extends from the trib, through the millennium to the NHNE. (2 Peter 3: 10)

The NJ is as a bride because of the glory of God. It is not the B/C. (Rev. 21: 2 & 11)

And the NJ descends to near the earth because the nations walk in its light. That means as the earth revolves that some part of the earth will receive its light. (Rev. 21: 24)

@Marilyn C Sorry; what does NJ stand for.....?