Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Sometimes you have to go backwards before you can go forward. Let's see where this goes.
God LAUGHS at the trinity
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RLT63
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Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
It doesn't matter what it sounds like or what you or I can understand or rationalize. all that matters is what teh bible says and we are to ewither accept it or reject it whether it is humanly understandable or not!
Jesus is in God ,God is in Jesus, God is God, Jesus is God, they are equal and separate.
- Isaiah 55:8
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
- Isaiah 55:9
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Sorry you feel that way, I know we agree on other things.
Did you know that the earliest Adventists (E.G.White and her entire family, and all their congregants) were 100% opposed to the trinity doctrine?
Yeah, I know all modern sects today preach trinity, but that is a modern twist on the original foundational beliefs of the SDA's.
If you do some diligent research, the documentation is out there that proves they vehemently denied the Catholic-created doctrine of 'God being 3 persons.'
God bless.
Happy to discuss, but you might be better served to read back through the thread a bit. Just read my posts and see if I don't answer that in a number of ways.
Then I'll answer what I can, as best I can, using Scripture.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Oh. OK. Then, by extension, From Genesis to Revelation, Scripture says Jesus is not God.
Agreed. Show me where the Bible says God is 3 persons. Or where it even teaches the concept.
All that matters is what the Bible says.
Show me where the Bible says God is equal with anyone else.
Isaiah 40:25 "To whom ... shall I be equal? Saith the Holy One."
Isaiah 42:8 " ... My glory will I not give to another, ..."
Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside Me: ..." (This verse uses the word beside, NOT besides. That is very critical and proves that the author is not speaking of an individual who is more than one person. The case could be made that 'ME' is the trinity speaking as one, but that case cannot be made when the word beside is used without the 's' on the end.)
Isaiah 45:6 "... there is none beside Me. I am the LORD, and there is none else."
Isaiah 46:5 "To whom will ye liken Me and make Me equal, and compare Me, that we may be like?"
If you're the devout Bible-believing Christian you make yourself out to be here, why do you always hit a brick wall of refusal when these verses from Scripture are brought to your attention? Do you reject all Scripture that contradicts what your own personal church teaches, or ... what's the excuse that you make to yourself for denying these very plain verses from GOD'S Word?
It doesn't count to throw it back when it's wrong.
Scripture nowhere says Jesus is not God.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Doesn't have to. Not how logic works. All things are not Biblically supported UNLESS the Bible says it is NOT.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
I already have- but you huff and puff at Scripture showing jesus is God as HIs Father. We are talking nature not position.
And I agree with these verses 100% but where you err is you cannot recognize that Adonai (plural) Elohim (plural) is a multi faceted God found in three persons.
Is. 44:6
Isaiah 44:6
King James Version
6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
In this one verse we see two entities called Yahweh speak!
Yahweh , King of Israsel.
Yahweh, Yahweh of Hosts.
John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
John, Inspired by God wrote Jesus is equal to the God!
Philippians 2:6
King James Version
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
De3spite the Watchtower mangling this verse by deceitful mistranslation shows Je3sus existed as God before He became man. And no He did not think He was stealing anything to be called equal with God.
Colossians 1:15
King James Version
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Jesus shines with the glory of the Father! Not a reflection, but innately.
2 Corinthians 4:4
King James Version
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
John 14:9
King James Version
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
John 10:29-31
King James Version
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
John 17:5
King James Version
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Jesus had the glory of the3 Father. God did not share His glory with anyone else- because Jesus is also Yahweh!
I still don't understand how so many people will present multiple verses that THEY say proves God is two people, and claim that it is proof positive that God is THREE people.
I'm sorry, I just don't agree. And I definitely don't agree that the Bible shows God is two in any of those verses. The Bible doesn't contradict itself. If it appears to, then that means something has been overlooked, misinterpreted or misunderstood.
God says He is equal with nobody. So when Jesus makes Himself equal to the Father, the only possibility there is that HE IS the Father. It's the only way that all of Scripture, from OT to NT, coincides accurately.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well we work on trying to break through the Watchtower indoctrination to show you first that jesus is just as divine as His Father. If you cannot accept Jesus is just as much God in nature as His Father why should we waste time trying to show you teh Holy Spirit is not only a person but also equally God as the Father and Son? I won't!
That's ok.
You must be indoctrinated to first believe what your group/church is trying to teach the world anyway. Nobody studies the Bible on their own, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit (1 John 2:27), and ever comes away with the impression that God is three people.
Absolutely no one.
No one ever has.
It must be painstakingly beaten into the minds of those who come to accept it. All their own observations of Scripture, coupled with their God-given logic, is utterly assaulted and beaten into submission by such a concept.
And whether you know it, or realize it, or believe it or accept it, or not, that is the exact reason the Roman Catholic Church was absolutely desperate to keep the Bible out of the hands of the common man.
Because when a man reads the Bible, God discloses to Him the Truth that HE intends to share with the world. And that Truth is that He is ONE single, solitary God. And He most certainly is NOT three persons.
E.G.White believed in the Trinity. Her Husband denied that Jesus is God.Sorry you feel that way, I know we agree on other things.
Did you know that the earliest Adventists (E.G.White and her entire family, and all their congregants) were 100% opposed to the trinity doctrine?
Yeah, I know all modern sects today preach trinity, but that is a modern twist on the original foundational beliefs of the SDA's.
If you do some diligent research, the documentation is out there that proves they vehemently denied the Catholic-created doctrine of 'God being 3 persons.'
God bless.
Some Ellen G. White statements:
There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit— those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized. . . .—Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, pp. 62, 63. (1905). . . .
Christ is the pre-existent, self-existent Son of God. . . . In speaking of his pre-existence, Christ carries the mind back through dateless ages. He assures us that there never was a time when He was not in close fellowship with the eternal God. . . .—Signs of the Times, Aug. 29, 1900. . . .
He was equal with God, infinite and omnipotent. . . . He is the eternal, self-existent Son.—Manuscript 101, 1897. . . .
While God’s Word speaks of the humanity of Christ when upon this earth, it also speaks decidedly regarding His pre-existence. The Word existed as a divine being, even as the eternal Son of God, in union and oneness with His Father. From everlasting He was the Mediator of the covenant, the one in whom all nations of the earth, both Jews and Gentiles, if they accepted Him, were to be blessed. “The Word was with God, and the Word was God.” Before men or angels were created, the Word was with God, and was God.—Review and Herald, April 5, 1906. . . .
Jesus declared, “I am the resurrection, and the life.” In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived. “He that hath the Son hath life.” The divinity of Christ is the believer’s assurance of eternal life. —The Desire of Ages, p. 530 (1898). . . .
We need to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds.—Manuscript 66, 1899. (From a talk to the students at the Avondale School.) . . .
The Holy Spirit has a personality, else He could not bear witness to our spirits and with our spirits that we are the children of God. He must also be a divine person, else He could not search out the secrets which lie hidden in the mind of God. “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.”—Manuscript 20, 1906. [The preceding Ellen G. White statements are all found in the book Evangelism, pages 615-617.]
Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the Third Person of the Godhead, who would come with no modified energy, but in the fullness of divine power. It is the Spirit that makes effectual what has been wrought out by the world’s Redeemer (The Desire of Ages, 671).
EllenWhite.Org Website - Did Ellen White condemn the doctrine of the Trinity? (“The Pioneers and the Trinity”)
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