God LAUGHS at the trinity

[The Learner]

Many of the earliest Sabbatarian Adventists rejected a belief in the Trinity for a variety of reasons. With time, these anti-Trinitarian views were modified, largely because Ellen G. White's views continued to develop.


In 1850 Ellen G. White confirmed the personhood of Jesus Christ and God the Father, stating, "I have often seen the lovely Jesus, that He is a person. I asked Him if His Father was a person and had a form like Himself. Said Jesus, 'I am in the express image of My Father's person." (Emphasis is in original. Early Writings 77; c.f. 51, 54).


In subsequent years, Ellen White made further advancements in her understanding of the Godhead. In 1897-1898 Ellen G. White made her first statement regarding the personhood of the Holy Spirit, stating that He was "the third person of the Godhead" (Special Testimonies, Series A10 25, 37). Similarly, she wrote that the Holy Spirit was "the Third Person of the Godhead" in 1898 in Desire of Ages (p. 530, 671). Other statements include, "the Holy Spirit . . . is as much a person as God is a person" (Evangelism 616); and, "The Holy Spirit has a personality, else He could not bear witness to our spirits and with our spirits that we are the children of God. He must also be a divine person, else He could not search out the secrets which lie hidden in the mind of God." (Evangelism 617).


Therefore, by the late 1890s (if not earlier), it is evident that Ellen G. White believed that God is one and that He is comprised of three co-equal persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In expressing this view, she never used the word, "Trinity," but preferred the phrases, "three highest powers in heaven," or the "heavenly trio."


Please consult the following sources for a more detailed answer:




Karen K. Abrahamson and John T. Baldwin, "Holy Spirit," in The Ellen G. White Encyclopedia, Denis Fortin and Jerry Moon, eds. (Hagerstown, MD: Review and Herald, 2013), 874-876.

Jerry Moon, "Godhead," in The Ellen G. White Encyclopedia, Denis Fortin and Jerry Moon, eds. (Hagerstown, MD: Review and Herald, 2013), 843-844.

Jerry Moon, "The Adventist Trinity Debate, Part 1: Historical Overview," Andrews University Seminary Studies 41 (Spring 2003): 113-129.

Jerry Moon, "The Adventist Trinity Debate, Part 2: The Role of Ellen G. White," Andrews University Seminary Studies 41 (Autumn 2003): 275-292.

Tim Poirier, "Ellen White's Trinitarian Statement: What Did She Actually Write?" Ellen White and Current Issues Symposium 2 (2006): 18-40.



Woodrow W. Whidden, Jerry Moon, and John W. Reeve, The Trinity: Understanding God's Love, His Plan of Salvation, and Christian Relationships (Hagerstown, MD: Review and Herald, 2002).

 

[The Learner]

https://www.atsjats.org/11moon-trinitywhite06-01.pdf
"Great truths are dearly bought. The common truth,
Such as men give and take from day to day,
Comes in the common walk of easy life,
Blown by the careless wind across our way.
Great truths are dearly won; not found by chance,
Nor wafted on the breath of summer dream;
But grasped in the struggle of the soul,
Hard buffeting with adverse wind and stream.
Truth springs like harvest from the well-ploughed fields,
Rewarding patient toil, and faith, and zeal.

 

[The Learner]

To those thus seeking her, she ever yields
Her richest treasures for their lasting weal.
Longfellow (Part of)..
The Trinity Doctrine is a great truth of Scripture that must be proclaimed but it must also be protected. Ever since New Testament times it has been attacked, distorted, and discredited. It is a basic teaching of Scripture and therefore seems to come in for special attention. Other authorities have been brought in to try and override Scripture in an endeavour to undermine the doctrine and this has been done among groups such as the Jehovah's Witnesses (the Watch Tower Prophet) and Mormons (Joseph Smith). Unfortunately, Ellen G. White has been used by some Seventh-day Adventists to try and bring about a similar result. This is distressing to faithful Seventh-day Adventists.
As for me, when I left the Jehovah's Witnesses, I determined that nothing would ever again come between the Bible and me. The Watch Tower had been a teaching wedge driven between the Bible and me by the Jehovah's Witnesses - so I know the danger and the error of allowing something other than the Bible to be my teacher.

 

[The Learner]

Because the Roman Catholic Church has claimed that the Trinity Doctrine is at the centre of it's teachings, many have scoffed at Seventh-day Adventists who support the doctrine (the true one). These scoffers don't seem to know that other groups make the same claim. The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, Oxford University Press, 2005, describes the Trinity as "the central dogma of Christian theology."
All sorts of things have been written about this dear lady. To some her writings are on a par with the Bible. To others she was an inspired Commentator on the Bible. To others she was an absolute fake, a phoney. Unfortunately, there are extremists in about everything everywhere. To me, I can only speak of her as a wonderful Christian lady who loved God and strived all of her life to serve Him. She was not infallible and never claimed to be, in fact I have found her to be quite human but in a good sense. Her position was that she was a lesser light to lead to the Greater Light (the Bible). She positively asserted that her writings should not be used to determine doctrine.

 

[The Learner]

Silly people have written a lot of silly garbage about Ellen White, particularly on the Internet. My friends, only silly other people take notice of this discrediting nonsense.
Some will think that I am attacking Ellen White, that will sadden me because I am endeavouring to discover the truth about her. Truth and honesty are vitally important to me. If anyone can show me to be in error in the assessments which I make in the following material, I would be most thankful for your advice. I can change, I have had to in the past, and I will change again if I can clearly be shown to be out of harmony with the facts.




Item 1 of the Fundamental Beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church states:

"In this Word God has committed to man the knowledge necessary for salvation. The Holy Scriptures are the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the authoritative revealer of doctrine, and the trustworthy record of God's acts in history."

Surely, that is clear enough, isn't it? But no, if what we have just read is not in agreement with what they want to believe it is never enough for some. What about Ellen White? We move to Item 18 of our Fundamental Beliefs and read:

"Her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested." I have highlighted this last section for emphasis.

Surely, all this is very clear. The writings of Ellen White have their place and are to be appreciated, but they are not the final authority – the final authority is the Bible. Here are a few statements from Ellen White herself on the matter:




God will have a people upon the earth to maintain the Bible, and the Bible only, as the standard of all doctrines and the basis of all reforms...Before accepting any doctrine or precept, we should demand a plain "Thus saith the Lord ." The Great Controversy, page 595.

Let all prove their positions from the Scriptures and substantiate every point they claim as truth from the revealed Word of God. Evangelism, page 256
The Bible, and the Bible alone, is to be our creed, the sole bond of union; all who bow to this Holy Word will be in harmony. Our own views and ideas must not control our efforts. Man is fallible, but God's Word is infallible. Instead of wrangling with one another, let men exalt the Lord. Let us meet all opposition as did our Master, saying, "It is written." Let us lift up the banner on which is inscribed, The Bible our rule of faith and discipline. 1 Selected Messages, page 416.

Lay Sister White to one side. Do not quote my words again as long as you live until you can obey the Bible. When you make the Bible your food, your meat, and your drink, when you make its principles the elements of your character, you will know better how to receive counsel from God. I exalt the precious Word before you today. Do not repeat what I have said, saying, "Sister White said this," and "Sister White said that." Find out what the Lord God of Israel says, and then do what He commands. 3 Selected Messages, page 33.

The testimonies of Sister White should not be carried to the front. God's Word is the unerring Standard. The Testimonies are not to take the place of the Word....Let all prove their positions from the Scriptures and substantiate every point they claim as truth from the revealed Word of God. Evangelism, page 256.

Little heed is given to the Bible, and the Lord has given a lesser light to lead men and women to the greater light. 3 Selected Messages, page 30.
The Spirit was not given –nor can it ever be bestowed—to supersede the Bible; for the Scriptures explicitly state that the word of God is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. The Great Controversy, page vii.

Our position and faith is in the Bible. And never do we want any soul to bring in the Testimonies ahead of the Bible. Evangelism, page 256.

[Christ] pointed to the Scriptures as of unquestionable authority, and we should do the same. The Bible is to be presented as the Word of the infinite God, as the end of all controversy and foundation of all faith. Christ's Object Lessons, page 39 .

We have established that the Bible is the authority that settles all questions related to doctrine and that there is no other authority which is in legitimate contention with it.

I have shown in other places that the Trinity Doctrine is a doctrine of Scripture – see the rest of this website (www.thetrinitydoctrine.com) for details.

I have also contended that Ellen White was first of all a Trinitarian and then she became a Semi-Arian and later a Trinitarian again. I know something of what she went through for I went through a similar process. Let me explain about Ellen White:




Ellen Gould Harmon was born November 26, 1827. At the age of 9 a stone thrown by a classmate from her school injured her. The injury inhibited her quite considerably – the exact extent is difficult to determine.

On June 26, 1842 Ellen was baptised and accepted into the fellowship of the Methodist Church – this was the fellowship of her family.

Ellen and her family became involved with the 1844 movement and because of this she and her parents and other members of her family were disfellowshiped from the Methodist Church (A Trinitarian Church) in September of 1843.




Ellen got to know and appreciate James White a young ordained Minister of the Christian Connection a non-Trinitarian group. He also had been part of the 1844 movement - they were married on August 30 1846. She would then have been 18 years of age still.

James and Ellen were now part of the group emerging from the 1844 disappointment which later was organised as the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Presumably, Ellen was still a Trinitarian and James a non-Trinitarian. Although the emphasis of our early believers was on the imminent Second Coming of Jesus, the Judgment, the Ten Commandments, Conditional Immortality, and suchlike, this matter surely needed to be settled. Would James become a Trinitarian, or would Ellen become a Semi-Arian? Or would they perhaps remain as they were?
"
The Trinity Doctrine - Ellen G White and The Trinity Doctrine

 

[The Learner]

Ellen White and the Personhood of the Holy Spirit
The claim that her statements about the Holy Spirit as part of the Trinity being forgeries is nonsense. Andrew's Univeristy is not far from my home and I have verified that the statements exist in her own handwriting.

 

[The Learner]

Sorry you feel that way, I know we agree on other things.

Did you know that the earliest Adventists (E.G.White and her entire family, and all their congregants) were 100% opposed to the trinity doctrine?

Yeah, I know all modern sects today preach trinity, but that is a modern twist on the original foundational beliefs of the SDA's.

If you do some diligent research, the documentation is out there that proves they vehemently denied the Catholic-created doctrine of 'God being 3 persons.'

God bless.

Andrews University Seminary Studies: Trinity Debate Part 2

 

[The Learner]

What is the heresy of modalism?
Condemned as heresy, Modalism is the belief that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three different modes of God, as opposed to a Trinitarian view of three distinct persons within the Godhead.

Sabellianism | Christianity
What is Sabellianism? | GotQuestions.org
Sabellianism - Banner of Truth USA

"Sabellianism, also known as modalism, is a heresy which states that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are different modes or aspects of one God, rather than three distinct persons. Modalism's unitarian view of God is commonly described by an analogy: water in its three states of ice, liquid, and steam appear to be different substances, but in reality they all are composed of the same chemical compound, H20. Likewise, for Sabellians or modalists God the Father, Christ, and the Holy Spirit appear to be three distinct persons, but they are really just different manifestations of one solitary God."
Sabellianism - OrthodoxWiki

 

[GEN2REV]

E.G.White believed in the Trinity. Her Husband denied that Jesus is God.

Some Ellen G. White statements:

There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit— those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized. . . .—Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, pp. 62, 63. (1905). . . .

Christ is the pre-existent, self-existent Son of God. . . . In speaking of his pre-existence, Christ carries the mind back through dateless ages. He assures us that there never was a time when He was not in close fellowship with the eternal God. . . .—Signs of the Times, Aug. 29, 1900. . . .

He was equal with God, infinite and omnipotent. . . . He is the eternal, self-existent Son.—Manuscript 101, 1897. . . .

While God’s Word speaks of the humanity of Christ when upon this earth, it also speaks decidedly regarding His pre-existence. The Word existed as a divine being, even as the eternal Son of God, in union and oneness with His Father. From everlasting He was the Mediator of the covenant, the one in whom all nations of the earth, both Jews and Gentiles, if they accepted Him, were to be blessed. “The Word was with God, and the Word was God.” Before men or angels were created, the Word was with God, and was God.—Review and Herald, April 5, 1906. . . .

Jesus declared, “I am the resurrection, and the life.” In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived. “He that hath the Son hath life.” The divinity of Christ is the believer’s assurance of eternal life. —The Desire of Ages, p. 530 (1898). . . .

We need to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds.—Manuscript 66, 1899. (From a talk to the students at the Avondale School.) . . .

The Holy Spirit has a personality, else He could not bear witness to our spirits and with our spirits that we are the children of God. He must also be a divine person, else He could not search out the secrets which lie hidden in the mind of God. “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.”—Manuscript 20, 1906. [The preceding Ellen G. White statements are all found in the book Evangelism, pages 615-617.]

Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the Third Person of the Godhead, who would come with no modified energy, but in the fullness of divine power. It is the Spirit that makes effectual what has been wrought out by the world’s Redeemer (The Desire of Ages, 671).
EllenWhite.Org Website - Did Ellen White condemn the doctrine of the Trinity? (“The Pioneers and the Trinity”)

That's all modern Adventist teachings.

That is not what they believed at all. There are older documents that are not so easy to find that prove that is all nonsense.

Ellen White wrote the Great Controversy. She knew full well why so many early Christians were hunted down and tortured and killed by the Roman Catholic Church. And it would be silly if she did all that while agreeing with the RCC's position on the trinity. The majority of those killed by the church died professing faith in the ONE true God Almighty - no trinity. A belief punishable by death for the church of that era.

 

[GEN2REV]

Ellen White and the Personhood of the Holy Spirit
The claim that her statements about the Holy Spirit as part of the Trinity being forgeries is nonsense. Andrew's Univeristy is not far from my home and I have verified that the statements exist in her own handwriting.

ALL of that can (and has been) forged a hundred years after someone has been deceased. The Truth you seek, if you are actually seeking it, is not to be found among Universities, or those who are held as esteemed, but in the Bible itself.

After all these many centuries of lies from the RCC, the Bible still holds true to its original testament to the undeniable fact that the trinity is taught nowhere within its pages.

Those who seek with sincerity, and humility of heart, find that Truth to be plain and obvious. Most Christians, especially those who attend church regularly and who have been through seminary, have a much lighter grasp of the entire Bible than they give themselves credit for. Not only do those institutions teach mostly New Testament, but they only teach a fraction of that. Read the Bible, a KJV, from cover to cover ONCE and you will know more than any of those ever teach. Read it TWICE and you'll know more than the vast majority of pastors and preachers that are active today.

The Truth is the Truth no matter what organization, or big wig, shouts and decrees otherwise. God made certain that His Truth would never be silenced, and to this very day it reigns supreme over the most powerful people and institutions in all the world.

The trinity is a false doctrine sold wholesale to the masses who want to be told what to believe, but have no time or taste for diligent Bible study.

 

[GEN2REV]

Andrews University Seminary Studies: Trinity Debate Part 2

The trinity Lie Exposed!

 

[Mantis]

Happy to discuss, but you might be better served to read back through the thread a bit. Just read my posts and see if I don't answer that in a number of ways.

Then I'll answer what I can, as best I can, using Scripture.

I did read your posts. All I can discern is that you believe Jesus is God. That’s it. I don’t understand who you think the other two people of the trinity are. Angels?

 

[GEN2REV]

I did read your posts. All I can discern is that you believe Jesus is God. That’s it. I don’t understand who you think the other two people of the trinity are. Angels?

It's not possible that you read my posts and came away with that question.

Nice try.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That's ok.

You must be indoctrinated to first believe what your group/church is trying to teach the world anyway. Nobody studies the Bible on their own, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit (1 John 2:27), and ever comes away with the impression that God is three people.

Well I did! I spent ten months alone with just the bible after I got saved and my aunt sent me a bible in the mail. I had gotten fired from a job for grand theft and no one told me about churches etc. etc. She sent me a bible and I started studying about 14 hours a day!

Absolutely no one.

No one ever has.

Well I just showed you lied! I barely remembered any of my catholic upbrining and had no clue as to what to believe about God ( I was a Satanist). In th e8 months I spent nearly 14 hours a day study9ing my house was hit with Jw's, Mormons, Hari-Krishnas, children of God and others. I took all their materials and read them. I wanted to know the truth!

But just with a bible I learned the Father is called God, Jesus is called God and the Spirit is called God in the bible! Its right there on teh pages of teh inspired Word!

It must be painstakingly beaten into the minds of those who come to accept it. All their own observations of Scripture, coupled with their God-given logic, is utterly assaulted and beaten into submission by such a concept.

And whether you know it, or realize it, or believe it or accept it, or not, that is the exact reason the Roman Catholic Church was absolutely desperate to keep the Bible out of the hands of the common man.

Because when a man reads the Bible, God discloses to Him the Truth that HE intends to share with the world. And that Truth is that He is ONE single, solitary God. And He most certainly is NOT three persons.

No it doesn't have to "be painstakingly beateninto the minds" of those who come to accept it. I found it and confirmed it without teh aid of any sect "painstakingly beating it into me"!

And the RCC kept the bible from men because what they feared most with the Early reformation Fathers would take place.

But the reality is that the Watchtower is terrified of their indoctrinated reading just the bible alone. As they wrote for all the world to see, if one just reads the inspired word of God alone- they revert back to things like the trinity, eternal torment etc. If you can find in th eWatchtower archives, read about teh great purging in Bethel that took place in teh early 1980's because the leadership found lots of worker bees doing independent bible study with something other than the New World Mistranslation and they began to seriously question Watchtower doctrine and got disfellowshipped and kicked out!

YOu neeed to think a minute hard!

If I had only source material to read- I woulod want the Bible without any books and I have read well over 1,000 in my 49 years walking with god. But the Watchtower would demand that you have their p[ublished materials, for in reading the Word of God you would be in darkness! Think with all that is said about Gods WQord in His Word does that make any sense at all???????????????????

 

[GEN2REV]

Well I did! I spent ten months alone with just the bible after I got saved and my aunt sent me a bible in the mail. I had gotten fired from a job for grand theft and no one told me about churches etc. etc. She sent me a bible and I started studying about 14 hours a day!



Well I just showed you lied! I barely remembered any of my catholic upbrining and had no clue as to what to believe about God ( I was a Satanist). In th e8 months I spent nearly 14 hours a day study9ing my house was hit with Jw's, Mormons, Hari-Krishnas, children of God and others. I took all their materials and read them. I wanted to know the truth!

But just with a bible I learned the Father is called God, Jesus is called God and the Spirit is called God in the bible! Its right there on teh pages of teh inspired Word!





No it doesn't have to "be painstakingly beateninto the minds" of those who come to accept it. I found it and confirmed it without teh aid of any sect "painstakingly beating it into me"!

And the RCC kept the bible from men because what they feared most with the Early reformation Fathers would take place.

But the reality is that the Watchtower is terrified of their indoctrinated reading just the bible alone. As they wrote for all the world to see, if one just reads the inspired word of God alone- they revert back to things like the trinity, eternal torment etc. If you can find in th eWatchtower archives, read about teh great purging in Bethel that took place in teh early 1980's because the leadership found lots of worker bees doing independent bible study with something other than the New World Mistranslation and they began to seriously question Watchtower doctrine and got disfellowshipped and kicked out!

YOu neeed to think a minute hard!

If I had only source material to read- I woulod want the Bible without any books and I have read well over 1,000 in my 49 years walking with god. But the Watchtower would demand that you have their p[ublished materials, for in reading the Word of God you would be in darkness! Think with all that is said about Gods WQord in His Word does that make any sense at all???????????????????

No. You did not.

Who's the liar now?

You had a Catholic upbringing (the beast mother of the trinity doctrine).

Nobody reads the Bible, with no previous contact with any of the popular doctrines, and comes away with any understanding of God being THREE people.

Doesn't happen.

It's easy math - the Bible doesn't even contain any teaching about the trinity. So you're a liar.

Not that that's news.

I'll leave you to it.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You had a Catholic upbringing (the beast mother of the trinity doctrine).

Your illiteracy in church history is awesome!

Nobody reads the Bible, with no previous contact with any of the popular doctrines, and comes away with any understanding of God being THREE people.

Well seeing as I rejected trinity teaching and all Christian doctrine- I did!

It's easy math - the Bible doesn't even contain any teaching about the trinity. So you're a liar.

Well I agree withyou! Trinity is a coined word made to describe who God is.

Pagan counterfeits were triads. But the Bible speaks of three people who are all accepted as God. Three and yet one.

 

[quietthinker]

God LAUGHS at the trinity
or could it be that God LAUGHS with the trinity!

 

[Matthias]

God LAUGHS at the trinity
or could it be that God LAUGHS with the trinity!

God, not “the trinity,” will have the last laugh.

 

[GEN2REV]

... or could it be that God LAUGHS with the trinity!

It's likely your god does.

My God shames and punishes the forsaken idol.

Just as He did all of the idolatrous gods when He conquered the armies of darkness on the Cross of Calvary.

 

[GEN2REV]

God, not “the trinity,” will have the last laugh.

And He will do so as Jesus Christ.

Revelation 19:11-13
Revelation 19:14-16