Billy Graham, and a new crusade

[Behold]

Did you actually read that parable? I cannot see any other conclusion you can reasonably draw. And I do not think Jesus ever meant His life and death to be misconstrued as a 'Get into Heaven free ticket' for conventional believers.

.

If you can save your soul by giving to the poor, the why did Christ have to die for your sin?


Also,

The Gift of Salvation, is exactly that.. Its a Gift. Its a FREE Gift that cost God's Son death on the Cross.
So, there is a great cost, but we dont pay it.
Heretics will lead you to believe that you are to pay it, somehow..
However, You dont work for a gift, you RECEIVE IT.
Gifts. are not given to be earned., and "God's gifts are without repentance'.
In other words, they are sent only....and they remain with the receiver.

 

[2ndRateMind]

If you can save your soul by giving to the poor, the[n] why did Christ have to die...?

Because otherwise Jesus would have been, at best, just another Jewish prophet no one paid much attention to.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[2ndRateMind]

You dont work for a gift, you RECEIVE IT.

Agreed. But we Christians have the duty and privilege to reciprocate Jesus' gift, by doing in our time what He could not manage in His. Or, if we don't, as the parable makes clear, woe betide us!

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[Behold]

Because otherwise Jesus would have been, at best, just another Jewish prophet no one paid much attention to.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Jesus said... John 14:6

The Resurrection proved it.

 

[Behold]

Agreed. But we Christians have the duty and privilege to reciprocate Jesus' gift,

= Discipleship.

 

[2ndRateMind]

The Resurrection proved it.

I agree. But unless He had first died, the resurrection could not have happened.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[Behold]

I agree. But unless He had first died, the resurrection could not have happened.

And because He did, we have this.

2 Corinthians 5:19

 

[2ndRateMind]

Incidentally, what do you think happens to people who are reasonably good, reasonably virtuous, reasonably decent individuals, as I have found in my happy experience most are, but are not Christians?

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[Behold]

Incidentally, what do you think happens to people who are reasonably good, reasonably virtuous, reasonably decent individuals, as I have found in my happy experience most are, but are not Christians?

Best wishes, 2RM.

The Cross does not make exceptions for people or their good deeds.

Also, "good people" is a relative term.......and this is based on comparing people to people.
If you compare "good people" to Holy God, you find that "all have sinned" and their deeds are "filthy rags".

A person who is not born again says......>"i knew you before you were a Christian...and you were not a good person.....so, if God will let you into heaven, He will surely let me into heaven, as im a better person than you".
= Could be so.. But God is not comparing us to each other, He is comparing us to HOLY JESUS< Sinless, and we all "fall short" when compared to God in the Flesh.
1 Timothy 3:16
None are "righteous" when compared to JESUS., and that is how God sees us ALL.

 

[2ndRateMind]

Hmmm. You did not quite answer my question. That's fine, as I think you were building a justification for your answer. So, what do you think happens to these people? Heaven, Purgatory, or Hell?

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[Behold]

Hmmm. You did not quite answer my question. That's fine, as I think you were building a justification for your answer. So, what do you think happens to these people? Heaven, Purgatory, or Hell?

Best wishes, 2RM.

I did answer your question..... with great detail.

If you want me to just bottom line it for you.....i can.

Jesus said..>"you must be born again".
If you are not, you will die........here. John 3:36,, and you will go to hell like a bullet..
Hell is filled with "do gooders", "commandment keepers".. "water baptized", "trying to be like Christ".

Why?
Because they are not born again.
The Born again Go to heaven, the rest do not.
That's it.

Being born again is proof you are in God's Family.
Not being born again, keeps you out of it, and so, you end up in the place where those who are not born again end up.

 

[2ndRateMind]

Ha Ha! That's me bound for Hell then! For, although I have been born again of the spirit, there are too many who have not and whose company I find congenial and would not want to lose, and too many smug, complacent, self righteous born again Christians whose company I could perfectly well do without. But doubtless God will sort it all out satisfactorily, at the end of days.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[2ndRateMind]

Interlude 2.

This is an organisation I have recently found, and am testing out. Any budding entrepreneur with a bright idea, but unable to find the funding, will know how frustrating that can be. So, I have been looking for a microfinance charity for some time. A hand up, not a hand out! Because you get your loan back, if the business is successful (and they generally are). And can reinvest, or just spend, funds duly ethically laundered, as you prefer.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[2ndRateMind]

You understand.

I do now. Thank you for that clarification. But I think your antipathy misplaced.

When you can flame a dead evangelist, calling Dr.Grahams career into question in a bad way, and then propose your citizens copycat that ''bad thing'' as payback, you know exactly what I said.

Where did I say Graham did 'a bad thing'? I merely implied that his take on Christianity is not the only one possible, and that we Brits might have stuff to say it could be useful for Americans to listen to.

We proceed best, when we proceed in mutually respectful dialog.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[farouk]

What Bible verse makes it a sin to be poor?
What Bible verse makes it a sin to have wealth?

Since there are no bible verses, what is the source of your “special revelation”?
How many hungry, homeless people have you taken into YOUR HOME to live and eat?

The problem with pointing a finger, is three point back at you.

@atpollard Reminds me of Proverbs 30.8b-9: "...give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:

9 Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the Lord? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain."

 

[DJT_47]

Billy Graham's message was false and incomplete and is unfortunately being carried on by Franklin Graham. You cannot be saved by saying a prayer nor by inviting Jesus into your heart. It's a false, non-scriptural message/doctrine that provides false hope and no salvation.

 

[atpollard]

Billy Graham's message was false and incomplete and is unfortunately being carried on by Franklin Graham. You cannot be saved by saying a prayer nor by inviting Jesus into your heart. It's a false, non-scriptural message/doctrine that provides false hope and no salvation.

As a Particular Baptist (5-point Calvinist), I agree completely with you that "saying a prayer" is NOT how God saves ... however I cannot in good conscience agree that God does not use such means to guide His monergistic work. If God can speak through Balaam's Donkey [Numbers 22:28] then God can speak through a "Wesleyan Holiness" Evangelist (and apparently does.)

Matthew 7:15-20 [NKJV]

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them."
​

What is the FRUIT that Billy Graham produced for inspection?

"Who are [WE] to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand." - Romans 14:4 [NKJV]​

 

[atpollard]

Incidentally, what do you think happens to people who are reasonably good, reasonably virtuous, reasonably decent individuals, as I have found in my happy experience most are, but are not Christians?

Are you advocating that God should make Heaven just like Earth by filling it with people that are reasonably good by our standards rather than people who are "glorified" through His Son and Spirit? [shudder]

 

[DJT_47]

If Billy Graham's message didn't and doesn't save souls, it bears no fruit and gives false hope to the unknowing, gullible people that believe such nonsense. And it's not a matter of judging others, it's rightly dividing the word to discern falsehoods from truth and good from bad. We must make judgements all the time and do so out of necessity.

 

[DJT_47]

I was brought up in the Church of England, and baptised and confirmed therein. As you might surmise, my experience is somewhat more recent than Spurgeon's of 1861. And arguably enough, it hasn't done me any harm.

The C of E's position on homosexuality is quite clear (you can be a homosexual, but not have homosexual sex) and I profoundly disagree with it. No one has yet explained to me precisely and satisfactorily why they think homosexuality a sin.

Best wishes, 2RM.

If you were "baptized" in the church of england as a child or infant, you weren't baptized, and if mot baptized, you're not saved. Btge word baptize stems from the Greek baptizo which means to plunge, dip, immerse. The church of england sprinkles or pours water on you which are not baptism, and are totally different words with different meanings and not interchangeable with baptizo. Furthermore, there's no such thing ad confirmation in the bible. This too is man made-up nonsense. And children can't believe, nor confess, nor repent and have not sinned to be repentant of. The biblical process of salvation is belief and faith which is first and foremost, confession of belief, repentance, and immersion (baptism) in water in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins in accordance with Acts 2:38.