Billy Graham, and a new crusade

[2ndRateMind]

I know conservatives like to discuss homosexuality, but the truth is, I have already said most of what I want to say on this topic. I would rather discuss why some are inordinately wealthy and some so poor they die of hunger and malnutrition. That really is a sin.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[Behold]

I was brought up in the Church of England, and baptised and confirmed therein..

So you became a member of a denomination.
Well i have good news for you.
There are no Denominations in Heaven.
Not ANY, not ONE.. = zero.
Those are all found down here, all man made.

Who goes to heaven?

Let Jesus explain it to you... ""You must be born again".

 

[2ndRateMind]

Just out of curiosity, does the Bible explain WHY coveting your neighbor's wife is a sin? or WHY lying is a sin?

My best guess for WHY (and this is just "my" best guess") homosexuality is a sin is because it is contrary to the plan of God. In Genesis ... "male and female He created them", to be a couple ... two become one flesh ... each completing the other, with this God ordained unity in plurality a living "picture" of God and some spiritual truth (man created in the image of God). To abandon the roles and natural biological pairings is to distort at best, and willfully reject or pervert (depending on an inner motivation that is invisible to me) the image of God and natural order of that which is "very good" according to God (the creator). That is (in my humble opinion) what makes homosexual acts (it is almost always the actions of men that are condemned as sin in scripture) "a sin".

In truth, the argument for why "hate" is the sin of "murder" shares a similar and parallel explanation (in my opinion).

Pointing at other sins, and then suggesting there is an equivalence between them and homosexuality, does not persuade me. As for proclaiming that God wants some way of life congenial to the proclaimer, it does not really persuade me, either.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[Behold]

Just out of curiosity, does the Bible explain WHY coveting your neighbor's wife is a sin? or WHY lying is a sin?

My best guess for WHY (and this is just "my" best guess) homosexuality is a sin is because it is contrary to the plan of God. In Genesis ... "male and female He created them", to be a couple ... two become one flesh ... each completing the other, with this God ordained unity in plurality a living "picture" of God and some spiritual truth (man created in the image of God). To abandon the roles and natural biological pairings is to distort at best, and willfully reject or pervert (depending on an inner motivation that is invisible to me) the image of God and natural order of that which is "very good" according to God (the creator). That is (in my humble opinion) what makes homosexual acts (it is almost always the actions of men that are condemned as sin in scripture) "a sin".

In truth, the argument for why "hate" is the sin of "murder" shares a similar and parallel explanation (in my opinion).

God's viewpoint regarding behavior is always "moral righteousness" and "purity in Judgment".
So, when behavior contradicts those, then that's a problem, and it has a name... "SIN".

Also, SEX is given by God, first an foremost, not for physical pleasure, but to "replenish the species", so, un-natural sexuality, would be man+man or woman + woman, as in that case there can be no procreation, no "replenish the species".

 

[2ndRateMind]

So you became a member of a denomination.
Well i have good news for you.
There are no Denominations in Heaven.
Not ANY, not ONE.. = zero.
Those are all found down here, all man made.

Who goes to heaven?

Let Jesus explain it to you... ""You must be born again".

I have been 'born again'. I found that event altered my opinions not one iota, just confirmed and strengthened my faith.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[Behold]

So why do you suppose the Bible says homosexuality is a sin, and then never explains why?

The Bible explains why. It says its unnatural.. Read Romans 1, all the way to the end.

And also..

God's viewpoint regarding behavior is always "moral righteousness" and "purity in Judgment".
So, when behavior contradicts those, then that's a problem, and it has a name... "SIN".

Also, SEX is given by God, first an foremost, not for physical pleasure, but to "replenish the species", so, un-natural sexuality, would be man+man or woman + woman, as in that case there can be no procreation, no "replenish the species".

 

[Behold]

I have been 'born again'. I found that event altered my opinions not one iota, just confirmed and strengthened my faith.Best wishes, 2RM.

Yes, its obvious that Your Opinion is your God.
You have proven that to us, 2ndRateMind...and there is no doubt that is why you are on this Forum.

"We"... are not "OF" that opinion, as we are 'OF" the Mind of Christ and believe the Word of God.

 

[2ndRateMind]

God's viewpoint regarding behavior is always "moral righteousness" and "purity in Judgment".
So, when behavior contradicts those, then that's a problem, and it has a name... "SIN".

Also, SEX is given by God, first an foremost, not for physical pleasure, but to "replenish the species", so, un-natural sexuality, would be man+man or woman + woman, as in that case there can be no procreation, no "replenish the species".

That is a remarkably Catholic view of sex and sexuality. But mine is somewhat broader. I think God gave us sex to enhance and deepen our relationships, as well as procreate.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[atpollard]

Pointing at other sins, and then suggesting there is an equivalence between them and homosexuality, does not persuade me. As for proclaiming that God wants some way of life congenial to the proclaimer, it does not really persuade me, either.

I apologize.
I had not realized that it was my JOB to convince you that homosexuality was a sin. You phrased your question in a manner that suggested you merely wanted speculation on WHY. Since your response reveals your deep and steadfast love of homosexuality and your resolve to reject God's words stating that it IS a sin (irrespective of why), there is a simple Biblical explanation for THAT attitude:

Romans 1

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their reasonings, and their senseless hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and they exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible mankind, of birds, four-footed animals, and crawling creatures.

24 Therefore God gave them up to vile impurity in the lusts of their hearts, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for falsehood, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged natural relations for that which is contrary to nature, 27 and likewise the men, too, abandoned natural relations with women and burned in their desire toward one another, males with males committing shameful acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a depraved mind, to do those things that are not proper, 29 people having been filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, and evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, and malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unfeeling, and unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also approve of those who practice them.
​

I leave you in God's hands ... only God changes hearts.

 

[2ndRateMind]

I would rather discuss why some are inordinately wealthy and some so poor they die of hunger and malnutrition. That really is a sin.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Does no one want to talk around this topic?

Best wishes, 2RM

 

[Behold]

That is a remarkably Catholic view of sex and sexuality..

God told us to "replenish the earth", in Genesis.
Catholics came a bit later.

Romans 1, came before "the cult of Mary" arrived.

So, as i said, you have your opinions.

 

[2ndRateMind]

I apologize.
I had not realized that it was my JOB to convince you that homosexuality was a sin. You phrased your question in a manner that suggested you merely wanted speculation on WHY.

I asked why. You attempted some justifications. I explained they were unpersuasive to me. There is no necessity for you to lose your equilibrium.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[Behold]

Does no one want to talk around this topic?
Best wishes, 2RM

You have not stated that you are a Homosexual, but you are certainly not presenting yourself in opposition to/with > Homosexual SEX.<
As that is what DEFINES a person as a Homosexual.
= Homosexual SEX as a Lifestyle choice.

I dont "hear" you as promoting gay sex, but you seem to be "lightly" defending it.

Can you clarify your opinion regarding it, for us?

Now i didnt ask you if you believe a person has a right to be what (sexual lifestyle) they want to be....
So, lets not dodge my question with that teenagers's response, or the Lady Gaga's "born this way" nonsense... Ok?

Thanx.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Couldn't catch your meaning. Please clarify.

Best wishes, 2RM.

You understand.
When you can flame a dead evangelist, calling Dr.Grahams career into question in a bad way, and then propose your citizens copycat that ''bad thing'' as payback, you know exactly what I said.

What you suggest, though you obviously don't realize it, is absurd.

Dr.Graham did a baaaaaaaad thing over here. Let's get him back and do the same baaaaaaaaad thing over there!
Revenge on a dead Evangelist that served the Lord the majority of his life.

He could have stayed on this side of the pond and let your nations people dare as best they could without the gospel. But he didn't.
Now you want revenge for that.

 

[2ndRateMind]

You have not stated that you are a Homosexual, but you are certainly not presenting yourself in opposition to/with > Homosexual SEX.<
As that is what DEFINES a person as a Homosexual.
= Homosexual SEX as a Lifestyle choice.

I dont "hear" you as promoting gay sex, but you seem to be "lightly" defending it.

Can you clarify your opinion regarding it, for us?

Now i didnt ask you if you believe a person has a right to be what they want to be.
So, lets not dodge my question with that teenagers's response... Ok?

Thanx.

Actually I am not, and never have been, a homosexual. These days, in fact, I am celibate, being rather too old for sexual shennaghins of any type. I merely state that so that you know exactly where I am coming from, and that I have no personal axe to grind in this matter. My main problem, however, is that the conservative assault on homosexuals seems to be, to me, an injustice founded on prejudice, and the sooner we are rid of it, the happier Jesus will be. And by the way, teenagers are not always wrong. It is a founding element of modern democracies that, within the law, people have exactly the right to be the way they want to be. It's called 'freedom'.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[Enoch111]

So why do you suppose the Bible says homosexuality is a sin, and then never explains why?

The explanation is already there in Genesis 1. God created them male and female in order to procreate. And then He rained fire and brimstone on Sodom, Gomorrah, and all the surrounding area because of homosexuality -- which is sexual perversion. A heinous sin in God's sight.

 

[TLHKAJ]

So why do you suppose the Bible says homosexuality is a sin, and then never explains why? That is what I am trying to get at: the underlying reason. It just doesn't seem to be that there is one.

Best wishes, 2RM.

The marriage of man and woman reflects the relationship between Christ and the Church.
The family (husband, wife, and child/ren) reflects the image of God. That's why. And really, what other reason do we need to abstain from something than ....God said so? He has a divine order and we shouldn't presume we have the right to go against that.

 

[Behold]

Actually I am not, and never have been, a homosexual. These days, in fact, I am celibate, being rather too old for sexual shennaghins of any type. I merely state that so that you know exactly where I am coming from, and that I have no personal axe to grind in this matter. My main problem, however, is that the conservative assault on homosexuals seems to be, to me, an injustice founded on prejudice, and the sooner we are rid of it, the happier Jesus will be. And by the way, teenagers are not always wrong. It is a founding element of modern democracies that people have exactly the right to be the way they want to be. It's called 'freedom'.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Well a few things..

God gives us the right to choose. FREEWILL.
So, we have this personal right to be what we want to be...and do what we want to do.
Im all for personal liberty......but, there is a cost to the "freedom" that you mentioned.
The cost is "CONSEQUENCE"... So, be as free as you delight, be a Libertine as much as you want.... but the cost of freedom is Consequence.

Are you aware that "Aids", the disease, was renamed very early on so that the Homosexual community would not be held accountable for the millions that it would kill?
This really happened, in about '82.
The Political and Cultural "powers that be", decided that it was going to be very harmful to the Gay community if the truth got out, and stayed out....= that the original name of the disease was... GRID.
Gay RELATED Immune Deficiency.
So they changed the name to "Aids" to HIDE the truth, to protect the homosexual community, and came up with a Plan to blame it on Monkey's in Africa, as the originators.
Odd isn't it that for 40+ yrs, millions of HUMANS die from Grid, but you dont hear anything about AIDS wiping out Monkey's.
And you never will.

Trying to find all this out now, using WIKI, or similar, is just beating your head against a rock, as all the media has of course redesigned the History books to reflect the "AIDS" LIE., and Hide GRID from you.

Also, God is not prejudiced against those who choose to perform sex acts that are unholy and unnatural, as their lifestyle.
He is simply a Holy God who would never accept this perversion, that He regards as unnatural and perverse behavior.
You are aware that Gays do not reproduce, = they RECRUIT .?

The bible expects you to bring your mind and heart and belief system, regarding this subject, in line with God's Perspective, if you are truly born again.
Also, do consider, ...that You are dealing mostly with Christians, on a Christian Forum, who have the Biblical perspective of "GAY"....So, as you have not this same, you can't expect the believers here or on any Christian Forum to accept your bible opposing and God opposing and morality opposing, opinion, regarding Homosexuality.

I think you have mistaken a True Believer's HOMO-NAUSEA ... .as "homophobia".
Many do.

I for one, ... when i think about a law that allows 2 Gay men to adopt baby Boys.... I really have a severe reaction in my Spirit when i consider something that is so EVIL, is completely legal.

 

[atpollard]

I would rather discuss why some are inordinately wealthy and some so poor they die of hunger and malnutrition. That really is a sin.

What Bible verse makes it a sin to be poor?
What Bible verse makes it a sin to have wealth?

Since there are no bible verses, what is the source of your “special revelation”?
How many hungry, homeless people have you taken into YOUR HOME to live and eat?

The problem with pointing a finger, is three point back at you.

 

[Mantis]

In America homosexuality is being taught to our children that it is perfectly normal and acceptable. Well we see a big problem with this. Every single TV show has a gay couple. Gays kissing on screen making out. Our schools and media teach the kids that it is ok. Well they will not inherit the kingdom on God if they’re homosexual so we need to tell them.