If you believe these are the end times, why do you not also believe great apostacy has come?

[ScottA]

There is no reason at all for you to not be straightforward here. You're not Jesus, so you don't need to talk in parables here.

That is not what I said or meant. I am not man-ufacturing parables. It is not me who speaks.

 

[Jay Ross]

That is not what I said or meant. I am not man-ufacturing parables. It is not me who speaks.

But @Not me has not spoken. Oh well, seems that you are misleading us.

LOL:cool:

 

[ScottA]

Do you understand that even though He has not yet come no one can claim that He has delayed His coming because it's about His timing, not man's? From His perspective, He is not being slow to return (2 Peter 3:9), so His coming is not being delayed no matter how long it takes.

That is a rationale, but not the straightforward truth.

The truth is after coming the first time (1) Jesus went to the Father and then began knocking on doors and coming [again] (2) in to those who opened the door--all of which began 2,000 years ago as He said, "the things which must shortly take place." With all that is written, that indeed means, "the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect”, "but each one in his own order", and the only "future" coming is to those whom He has not yet "come in to."

 

[ScottA]

I already told you. The order Paul gave was Christ first (happened long ago) and next in order are those who belong to Him at His second coming. Very simple. You are needlessly turning something simple into something convoluted that only you understand.

And I told you that you are only looking at the worldly perspective which does not pertain to the events of God, but those of men and this world; and there is but One event for the salvation of all. If that is convoluted--it should be, for "what communion has light with darkness?"

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

And I told you that you are only looking at the worldly perspective which does not pertain to the events of God, but those of men and this world; and there is but One event for the salvation of all. If that is convoluted--it should be, for "what communion has light with darkness?"

I can't take you seriously. Scripture is VERY clear that all of the dead in Christ will be resurrected at the same time which will be at the last trumpet when Christ returns. And it also VERY clear that all believers (dead and alive) will be changed to have immortal bodies at the same time. Again, that will occur at the last trumpet when Christ returns. There is no indication whatsoever that these things happen for each individual upon death.

 

[ScottA]

I can't take you seriously. Scripture is VERY clear that all of the dead in Christ will be resurrected at the same time which will be at the last trumpet when Christ returns. And it also VERY clear that all believers (dead and alive) will be changed to have immortal bodies at the same time. Again, that will occur at the last trumpet when Christ returns. There is no indication whatsoever that these things happen for each individual upon death.

If you are serious and cannot take me seriously, we can certainly be finished.

But you have not understood. I did not say upon death--neither did Paul, but was speaking rather of all, but specifically regarding "we who are alive and remain", meaning those who are indeed dead, but alive to God and remaining in the world reigning with Christ--just as he also said, "for me to live is Christ." And no, that does not occur as everyone coming and going at one time, "but each one in his own order."

But you have even more to learn. Have you only ever done base-10 math? Can you not understand that in the context of time, men exist in base-10 while God exists in Base-0...and the events we have been discussing are not "rightly" mixed, but "divided?"

@Mr E

 

[Truth7t7]

But knowing what I know from God who caught me up in the spirit for just such a purpose--I could no more speak in my own way if I wanted to

Is this the Apostle John on the Island of Patmos, John is that you?

Big Smiles!

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Truth7t7]

This is the greatest error of the church age, so it is important to consider it without any other issues on the table.

Indeed, Paul explained in the way it would appear--that is in the way it would appear in the world. But I am not referring to the things of this world, but rather of the kingdom of God. None of what occurs the lives and times of all that are saved by the salvation of Christ in this world is actually a factor, but rather only what occurs in Christ is a factor, with whom there is but One salvation and one resurrection unto eternal life, which is His going to the Father. While all of the scriptures that would appear to be breaking down a different timeline of events regarding all of these things--they are of this world, and not of God in whom there is not timeline, "no shadow of turning", meaning no time.

This is the meaning of what Paul referred to as "rightly dividing the world of truth." Meaning that without "dividing" time events from God events, there can be no understanding.

As for what the scriptures do teach regarding the time events of the resurrection, do also consider (and include) that Paul also included a "but" in what he taught, saying, "but each one in his own order."

But most have not and will not believe what I have just told you--although it is written. But this is "because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God [has sent] them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie." Which Jesus warned of in the parable of the "evil servant."

All of which was to come...including being lead unto all truth.

More "Mystical Gobbly Goop" Throw It At The Wall, Will It Stick?

 

[Timtofly]

No, I don't get your false doctrine at all. He is coming WITH the souls of the dead in Christ and His angels for His saints with immortal bodies. Do you get that? You should. It's very simple. Turning it into two completely different events contradicts scripture.

Your false doctrine is that Jesus is coming with the souls of those in sheol at the very same time. You have their souls meeting their resurrected and changed bodies as well.

How are your wicked destroyed if they are all changed in the same instance of time?

No verse claims "souls" are coming. They are actual physical humans waiting to be glorified, the putting on of the spirit. Those currently in Paradise don't have Adam's dead corruptible flesh. They have a permanent incorruptible physical body. 2 Corinthians 5:1. Adam's flesh is temporal, returning to dust. God has already given them a permanent incorruptible physical body in Paradise. That is the first resurrection all in Paradise currently enjoy.

Not a "spiritual" "transparent air" "shapeless form", waiting for a shell. The tree of life is not a mirage. The tree of life is physical. Paradise is physical. Those enjoying Paradise are doing so in physical bodies. The sons of God are there with a complete soul, body, and spirit image of God. The redeemed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh are there with a soul and body. The redeemed are waiting for the Second Coming, when those on earth meet them in the air with their new physical body, so all can put on the spirit at the same time. Then Adam's curse will be lifted and all will be sons of God in the image of God.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

You are not being honest.

The Pharisees were learned men and knew the scriptures. Comparatively, so are many Christians of today. The Pharisees did not realize who was among them even after being told. Comparatively, most Christians today say they have Jesus in them but deny that He has come [again] to them. Many more comparisons will only be known with weeping and gnashing of teeth, soon enough.

As for unbelievers, who is an unbeliever but he who denies Jesus' presence and that He has come, and who is an "evil servant" but He who says "My master delays his coming" as most would-be Christians do?

Took you that many days to come up with that twisted logic brother. The point remain, you compared Jesus deniers to Christians who accept Jesus as Lord. The fact you would come back with such twisted logic about fringe lunatic types days later lets me know you lost the debate. So I wont bother with a rebut here, that post is an admission you lost the debate brother.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Definitely deserves its own thread! At least PM me the details. God told you the Anti-Christ is here in 1986? Wow!

Wow is right, you sound more like a person who is here not to testify of the things of God but to rather try and blunt our Christian testimony with quips, which only make you look bad. What I usually do with people like you is place you on ignore, you are not seemingly taking your Christian journey serious.

 

[Ezra]

has apostasy complete come ? NO is there a type falling away? yes is there a lack of interest? yes.. is there still Hope? yes

 

[ScottA]

Took you that many days to come up with that twisted logic brother. The point remain, you compared Jesus deniers to Christians who accept Jesus as Lord. The fact you would come back with such twisted logic about fringe lunatic types days later lets me know you lost the debate. So I wont bother with a rebut here, that post is an admission you lost the debate brother.

You loosing the comparison of those who were called Pharisees who denied Christ then, with those who are called Christians who deny Christ now, does not speak of me at all, but of you. Both have denied Christ.

And if you think you get the last word--you don't.

 

[Wrangler]

Wow is right, you sound more like a person who is here not to testify of the things of God but to rather try and blunt our Christian testimony with quips, which only make you look bad. What I usually do with people like you is place you on ignore, you are not seemingly taking your Christian journey serious.

I have no idea why you posted this in response to my question for you to share the details of God telling you the Anti-Christ is here in 1986.

Perhaps, I came across as flippant with my "Woe." My apologies. Your post struck me as one of the most profound revelations of all-time. I thought you'd welcome any opportunity to tell the story.

Many here posit the 2nd coming is way off, that it could be decades or centuries before the arrival of the anti-Christ. Your testimony can put the issue to rest. The kingdom of God is here. Be ready for the start of tribulation.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If you are serious and cannot take me seriously, we can certainly be finished.

But you have not understood. I did not say upon death--neither did Paul, but was speaking rather of all, but specifically regarding "we who are alive and remain", meaning those who are indeed dead, but alive to God and remaining in the world reigning with Christ--just as he also said, "for me to live is Christ." And no, that does not occur as everyone coming and going at one time, "but each one in his own order."

But you have even more to learn. Have you only ever done base-10 math? Can you not understand that in the context of time, men exist in base-10 while God exists in Base-0...and the events we have been discussing are not "rightly" mixed, but "divided?"

@Mr E

It's clear to me that I don't have anything to learn from you. I was serious that I cannot take you seriously.

 

[Davy]

If you believe that Jesus is soon to come again, why do you do the same as the Pharisees who looked to the scriptures and thought they had it all figured out?

History repeats itself--but this time it's the church who is in the hot seat.​

I could make a case for what is wrong with what is now commonly believed and expected against the warnings of Jesus, Peter, and Paul, and have. But the better case is written of what occurred at Jesus's first coming. Which some of you defend and campaign for here daily with the broken record of the scriptures and what is commonly believed having been taught following the false teachers and the spirit of anti-Christ that had already begun 2,000 years ago. Many of you sight the history in support of their folly to create your own.

And almost no one wants to hear anything other than what they already believe.

Should you not rather be expecting a rationale to be forthcoming that would explain what is written in the correct way as opposed to what has been wrongly believed?

Did you just want to remain under the strong delusion of the foretold lie, and not want to be lead unto all truth as promised by Christ? Do you just want to die before knowing the truth?

Apostle Paul tied the "falling away" to the appearing of the false "man of sin" playing God in JERUSALEM.

2 Thess 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
KJV

 

[ScottA]

Apostle Paul tied the "falling away" to the appearing of the false "man of sin" playing God in JERUSALEM.

2 Thess 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
KJV

Yes, that is true--but you have not understood.

Just as all who are holy are "in Christ", all who have sinned were in Adam--one man. And just as the falling away came to Adam, it must also come to the Last man, whom is Christ including those before and also those after...this is why He is rightly called "the Last Adam." "However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual."

And now it has been revealed to you.

 

[Davy]

Yes, that is true--but you have not understood.

Just as all who are holy are "in Christ", all who have sinned were in Adam--one man. And just as the falling away came to Adam, it must also come to the Last man, whom is Christ including those before and also those after...this is why He is rightly called "the Last Adam." "However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual."

And now it has been revealed to you.

You have NO CLUE what the 2 Thessalonians 2 chapter is about.

Your humanist rhetoric is an abomination against God's written Word.

 

[ScottA]

You have NO CLUE what the 2 Thessalonians 2 chapter is about.

Your humanist rhetoric is an abomination against God's written Word.

Phycological projection--you're incorrigible.

 

[Truth7t7]

I don't believe the apostacy has come yet because Paul indicated that it must come before Jesus returns and before his Kingdom is established on earth.

Your claim of a future Millennial Kingdom on this earth is a "Fairy Tale" as Pinocchio's nose grows