Our hope for the Future

[Spiritual Israelite]

Nothing is in impossible with God and I don't believe it is based on a jubilee calendar which is the first I've heard of that one. The 70th week was for Israel to accomplish something which they failed to do. God in his mercy is going to give them another chance and this one will be successful. No one who knows about prophecy believes the 70th week was completed "right after" the 69th and if they do then they need to go back to square one and try again.

Give them another chance? Where are you coming up with this? He has given them plenty of chances for the past 2,000 years. Do you think the God who wants all people to repent and be saved has purposely withheld salvation from the Jews for the past 2,000 years? No, He has not! Read Daniel 9:24. You think Israel can accomplish those things? No chance! Only Jesus Christ can accomplish those things and He did long ago! He brought in everlasting righteousness (the hope of everlasting life) by way of His death and resurrection. He takes people's sins away (makes an end of sins) by way of His sacrifice long ago!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

A commentary about the 144k in Rev. 7 by John MacArthur

"These Jewish believers and evangelists are the firstfruits of Israel, which as a nation will be redeemed before Christ returns (Zech. 12:10–13:1, 8–9; Rom. 11:26). The 144,000 are not all Jewish believers at that time, but a unique group selected to proclaim the gospel in that day (cf. 12:17; 14:1–5)​

Despite the plain and unambiguous declaration of the text that the one hundred and forty-four thousand who are to be sealed will come from every tribe of the sons of Israel, many persist in identifying them as the church. They cite several New Testament passages that allegedly identify the church as Israel to support that interpretation. But the identification of Israel with the church in those passages is tenuous and disputed. Thus, they can offer no support for such an identification in the present passage. The fact is that “no clear-cut example of the church being called ‘Israel’ exists in the NT or in ancient church writings until A.D. 160. … This fact is crippling to any attempt to identify Israel as the church in Rev. 7:4” (Robert L. Thomas, Revelation 1–7: An Exegetical Commentary [Chicago: Moody, 1992], 476). Further, “such an attempt becomes even more ridiculous because it necessitates typological interpretation that divides the church into twelve tribes to coincide with the listing of Rev. 7:5–8, even with all the irregularities in that list” (Thomas, Revelation 1–7, 476). The term Israel must be interpreted in accordance with its normal Old and New Testament usage as a reference to the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Nor is there any exegetical reason not to interpret the numbers 144,000 and 12,000 literally." John MacArthur​

John MacArthur is a false teacher, so I'm not going to be convinced of anything taught by him.

If the 144,000 are firstfruits of Israel, then why wouldn't it be referring to the ones James wrote about here:

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations: Greetings....16 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters. 17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. 18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

To All Amillennialists,

Why don't you all make a promise to God, that you will not have anything to do with the Millennial Kingdom _ on Earth _ literally ruled by Jesus _ after the Great Tribulation, which to you is an absurdity!
Put a check next to your name as an acknowledgement and covenant with God of your exclusion. Amen

WPM
SPIRITUAL Israelite X
rwb
Truth7t7
jeffweeder
MatthewG
Covenantee
CadyandZoe
Peterlag
Marty fox
Christian Gedge
GEN2REV
quietthinker
Phoneman777

I don't need to promise that I won't have anything to do with something that isn't even going to happen.

 

[Trekson]

Give them another chance? Where are you coming up with this? He has given them plenty of chances for the past 2,000 years. Do you think the God who wants all people to repent and be saved has purposely withheld salvation from the Jews for the past 2,000 years? No, He has not! Read Daniel 9:24. You think Israel can accomplish those things? No chance! Only Jesus Christ can accomplish those things and He did long ago! He brought in everlasting righteousness (the hope of everlasting life) by way of His death and resurrection. He takes people's sins away (makes an end of sins) by way of His sacrifice long ago!

Yes, they will accomplish all those things when they accept Christ on a national level. Dan. 9:24 is talking about Israel's national sin, transgression and iniquity which occurred when they rejected Christ. Where does it say they're given another chance? Zech. 12:10, 13:8-9, Matt. 23:39, the 144,000 and the latter mention of the woman in Rev. 12 are the start of believing Israel. When they are fulfilled, the "all" of Israel will consist of Israeli blood bought born again believers whose eyes are opened when the a/c breaks the 2nd commandment in Rev. 13:14-15.

 

[amigo de christo]

Our hope for the future . WELL i do hope for a day i know is still future . THE DAY OF THE GLORIOUS LORD .
As for in this world , WOULDNT PUT ANY HOPE in it . AND as for its future , IT WILL be destroyed
and then new heavens and a new earth wherein the lambs shall dwell forever with the GLORIOUS LORD .

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes, they will accomplish all those things when they accept Christ on a national level. Dan. 9:24 is talking about Israel's national sin, transgression and iniquity which occurred when they rejected Christ.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

How exactly can they make reconciliation for their own iniquity? Only Jesus can do that. How exactly can they bring in everlasting righteousness? Again, only Jesus can do that. How exactly can they finish transgression and put an end to sin? Only the One who "was pierced for our transgressions" (Isaiah 53:5) and who "takes away the sin of the world" (John 1:29) could do that.

Where does it say they're given another chance? Zech. 12:10, 13:8-9, Matt. 23:39, the 144,000 and the latter mention of the woman in Rev. 12 are the start of believing Israel. When they are fulfilled, the "all" of Israel will consist of Israeli blood bought born again believers whose eyes are opened when the a/c breaks the 2nd commandment in Rev. 13:14-15.

Do you believe that salvation has been withheld from the Israelites for the past 2,000 or so years? Has God not wanted them all to repent and to be saved during that time?

In terms of all Israel being saved, you are looking at the wrong Israel. How do you interpret this passage:

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

 

[Keraz]

Our hope for the future .

Jeremiah 30:23-24 See what a fiery wind has gone out from the Lord. A whirlwind that sweeps around the heads of the wicked, the Lord’s anger is not to be turned aside until He has fully accomplished His purpose.

Jeremiah 30:4-7 This is what the Lord says to Israel and Judah: We have heard a cry of terror, of fear without relief, every face turns pale. How awful is that Day, there has been none like it. It is a time of anguish for Jacob, yet he will come through it safely.

This describes the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, the next prophesied event, the Sixth Seal, in the near future. It will clear the way for His people, Christian Israelites, be they true descendants of Jacob or grafted in, to gather and settle in the new nation of Beulah, in all of the holy land.

Jeremiah 30:1-3 The Lord God of Israel, tells Jeremiah to write His words: The time is coming, when I shall restore the fortunes of My people, both Judah and Israel, and bring them back to take possession of the Land which I gave to their ancestors.

Jeremiah 30:8-22 In that Day, I shall break the yoke of servitude off their necks, they will serve only Me and David, their King, raised up for them. Do not be afraid, Israel, My servants, for I shall bring you back safe from afar, all your posterity from the lands where they are now. You will be at rest once more, secure and untroubled, for I am with you, to save you. The nations will be punished and you too, will be disciplined as you deserve.
Israel and Judah were punished for their sins by exile among the nations. Yet all who despoiled you will themselves be despoiled, I will heal your wounds.

The Lord says: I shall restore the fortunes of all Israel and show my love for his dwellings. Cities and houses will be rebuilt where they once were. From them, praise and merrymaking will be heard. My people will increase and be honoured, their oppressors will be punished.

A ruler will appear, one of themselves, a governor will arise from among them. I will bring him near and let him approach Me. So you will be My people and I shall be your God.

Jeremiah 30:24b In days to come, you will understand.
Ref: REB. Verses abridged.

These wonderful promises to His servants, all of the Christian peoples, all grafted into the Tree that is Jesus – their heritage regenerated, brought back safely from afar, to take possession of their Land, secure and untroubled, cities and houses rebuilt, they will increase and be honoured.
It is not hard to imagine, the ‘praise and merrymaking’ of His people after such amazing promises are fulfilled.

The King mentioned in Jeremiah 30:9 will be Jesus, after His Return. But, before the Return, ‘a leader will appear, one of themselves’, he will be able to approach the Lord in the same way as Moses and David did, so long ago.

All the Lord’s righteous people, will live in peace and prosperity in the Land of Greater Israel, the new country of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, after the clearance brought about by the Day of the Lord’s fiery wrath. They will send out 144,000 missionaries to proclaim the good news of the coming Kingdom of God. Isaiah 66:19.

 

[ewq1938]

The King mentioned in Jeremiah 30:9 will be Jesus, after His Return.

It says David will be their king, not Jesus.

"Jeremiah 30:8-22 In that Day, I shall break the yoke of servitude off their necks, they will serve only Me and David, their King, raised up for them. "

 

[Keraz]

It says David will be their king, not Jesus.

Obviously; the Prophesies mean - a son of David.
David himself 'sleeps until the GWT Judgment. Acts 13:36

Note: in Jeremiah 30:21, that the people will elect a leader from among themselves. Hosea 1:11`

 

[Trekson]

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

How exactly can they make reconciliation for their own iniquity? Only Jesus can do that. How exactly can they bring in everlasting righteousness? Again, only Jesus can do that. How exactly can they finish transgression and put an end to sin? Only the One who "was pierced for our transgressions" (Isaiah 53:5) and who "takes away the sin of the world" (John 1:29) could do that.


Do you believe that salvation has been withheld from the Israelites for the past 2,000 or so years? Has God not wanted them all to repent and to be saved during that time?

In terms of all Israel being saved, you are looking at the wrong Israel. How do you interpret this passage:

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

Your question? "How exactly can they finish transgression and put an end to sin?" The same way we do by accepting Christ as their savior except on a national level. When they escort Christ into Jerusalem at the 'real" triumphal entry, they will be 'bringing in" everlasting righteousness, only when that is completed will they end the visions and the prophecy about the 70th week and their final act willbe to Anoint Christ as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Next question, "Do you believe that salvation has been withheld from the Israelites for the past 2,000 or so years?" On an individual level, no, on a national level, yes. Regarding Rom. 9:6: The Roman church was mostly gentile although several Jews were also members but he was teaching mainly gentile christians to show their relationship to Israel in this age of grace and teaching that it was the faithful remnant throughout the generations that made the way for Christ to include us all and as the rest of the book teaches, it is our faith in Christ's completed works that lets us in the door, so to speak. But, as he also teaches in Rom. 11:25, the blindness of Israel will end when the full number of gentiles are come in. The the verses that I mentioned will come into play and the Israel of the millennium will be by blood and faith in Christ combined.

 

[Truth7t7]

I did. Many of the Christians that had negative feelings abouy the Jews as much as cursing them were Amillennialists. Catholics for instance are Prederists. Recent archives that have become available proves Pope Pius XII knew about the Holocaust, received info in 1942 and ignored it. He did not condemn the Holocaust, he was silent and even lied about it, suggesting the Church should not believe such exaggerated tales. Wow. So, don't tell me Anti-Semitism isn't common in the Church.

Romans 11, Rev 7

You ask how this will happen, a massive amount of Jews, millions, suddenly realize that Jesus really the Messiah? Gid cinverts the soul, He lifts the veil of blindness. When Jesus returns and "every eye sees Him", that will be the day.

Ron your living tooo close to Zionist Dallas Theological Cemetery in Texas, it appears to have rubbed off on you

 

[Gottservant]

We have hope.

Hope that is not seen.

 

[Truth7t7]

The problem with that is the prophecy wasn't for us it was for national Israel. Yes, we have all that in Jesus but national Israel does not, yet, but they will.

Sounds like Randy Kluth in hiding, smiles!

 

[Truth7t7]

Obviously; the Prophesies mean - a son of David.
David himself 'sleeps until the GWT Judgment. Acts 13:36

Note: in Jeremiah 30:21, that the people will elect a leader from among themselves. Hosea 1:11`

Your claim Jeremiah Chapter 30 is "Future" is 100% "Laughable"

The chapter speaks of Israel returning from the Babylonian captivity and rebuilding Jerusalem surrounding 536BC

Jeremiah 30:18KJV
18 Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I will bring again the captivity of Jacob's tents, and have mercy on his dwellingplaces; and the city shall be builded upon her own heap, and the palace shall remain after the manner thereof.

 

[Trekson]

Sounds like Randy Kluth in hiding, smiles!

Never heard of him.

 

[Jay Ross]

Never heard of him.

He is a member on this forum.

Hope this helps.

It would have been good if @Truth717 had provided a link to his post that he was comparing to what you had written.

 

[Keraz]

The truth about our future, and the fate of national Israel:

Jeremiah 33:1-3 The Word of the Lord came to Jeremiah while he was imprisoned. The Lord says: If you call to Me, I will answer and tell you of great and mysterious things that you are unaware of.

Jeremiah prophesied to the House of Judah, many years after the House of Israel was taken into exile by the Assyrians. He foretold how things would be after the Babylonian conquest of Judah, but this was not completely fulfilled then or after the Roman conquest of Judah in 70-135 AD.
Jeremiah 33:4-5 & 10 The houses of this city and the great buildings of Judah which are now destroyed by the sword of judgement, will be filled with dead bodies. They are those slain by the Lord Himself, because He has turned away from them. The Lord says: See this Land, now in ruins and devoid of people and animals.

Again; not fulfilled as yet. Jeremiah 9:10-11, Isaiah 4:3-6, Zephaniah 1:1-18

Ezekiel 21:14...swing the great sword of slaughter three times, whirling about Judah.

As Ezekiel says: there will be a triple fulfilment of the punishment of Judah. Two of these have happened, by Babylon and Rome but the next is ‘by the Lord Himself’, by the means of a Coronal Mass Ejection, an explosion on the suns surface. Isaiah 30:26 This event is prophesied and graphically described over 100 times in the Bible, as ‘the terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath’. The entire Middle East will become ‘ruined and devoid of people and animals’. This was not the case with the two previous punishments. Ezekiel 6:14, Hosea 4:3, Zechariah 3:10



But for now, as we await this sudden and terrifying Day that the Lord will take action, we must:

Isaiah 35:3-4 Brace the arms that are limp, steady the knees that give way, say to the anxious: Be strong, fear not. Your God comes to save you, with His vengeance and retribution. Jeremiah 30:4-11, Zephaniah 3:16-20, Hebrews 10:37-39

Isaiah 35:5 THEN the eyes of the blind will be opened and the ears of the deaf unstopped. Isaiah 29:24 The confused will gain understanding and the obstinate will accept instruction. Isaiah 6:9-10

The truth about this coming event is not generally known among believers. The reason is due to beliefs in false theories, Isaiah 29:9-12, or a lack of interest in prophecy. They remain ‘in the dark’ about what will happen. 2 Thess. 5:1-11

Only during or after it happens, will understanding be given to all those who have been unable to comprehend the Prophetic Word. They will say: It was there; in plain language, but I couldn’t see it!



Soon after that, many prophesies say how the holy Land will be regenerated;

Jeremiah 33:6-9 In this Land, will be heard once more the sounds of joy and gladness, of weddings and celebrations. People will shout: Praise the Lord, for He is good, His love endures forever’, as they offer thanksgiving in the House of the Lord. By the Word of the Lord: In this place and in all its towns, now ruined and cleared of all peoples and animals, flocks and herds will once more graze. My people will receive all the blessings that I have promised to them. Ezekiel 36:8-12, Amos 9:13-15

Isaiah 35:10 The Lord’s people, set free, will come back and enter Zion with shouts of triumph, with great joy and singing praises to their God. Suffering and sorrow will flee away. Zechariah 9:16-17, Romans 9:24-26, the 'sheep', who are the Christian peoples. Ezekiel 34:11-16


Great are the promises the Lord has made to His faithful Christian people. We will indeed ‘sing praises to the Lord’, when we are settled into our inheritance, all of the holy Land.

The House of the Lord: The new Temple will be built in Jerusalem. Haggai 2:6-9

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your question? "How exactly can they finish transgression and put an end to sin?" The same way we do by accepting Christ as their savior except on a national level. When they escort Christ into Jerusalem at the 'real" triumphal entry, they will be 'bringing in" everlasting righteousness, only when that is completed will they end the visions and the prophecy about the 70th week and their final act willbe to Anoint Christ as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Do you think that no Israelite will ever sin again after He returns?

Next question, "Do you believe that salvation has been withheld from the Israelites for the past 2,000 or so years?" On an individual level, no, on a national level, yes.

What does this even mean? Salvation is always on on individual level. People don't repent and put their trust in Christ as their personal Lord and Savior corporately. Each person does that individually.

So, do you believe that any individual Israelite did not have the opportunity to be saved for the past 2,000 years or so? If not, then why do you act as if their salvation has been postponed?

Regarding Rom. 9:6: The Roman church was mostly gentile although several Jews were also members but he was teaching mainly gentile christians to show their relationship to Israel in this age of grace and teaching that it was the faithful remnant throughout the generations that made the way for Christ to include us all and as the rest of the book teaches, it is our faith in Christ's completed works that lets us in the door, so to speak. But, as he also teaches in Rom. 11:25, the blindness of Israel will end when the full number of gentiles are come in. The the verses that I mentioned will come into play and the Israel of the millennium will be by blood and faith in Christ combined.

You're not being clear. How exactly do you interpret Romans 9:6-8? When Paul said "not all who are descended from Israel are not Israel", what do you think he meant? When he followed that up by saying " In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring", what do you think that means?

 

[Trekson]

Do you think that no Israelite will ever sin again after He returns?


What does this even mean? Salvation is always on on individual level. People don't repent and put their trust in Christ as their personal Lord and Savior corporately. Each person does that individually.

So, do you believe that any individual Israelite did not have the opportunity to be saved for the past 2,000 years or so? If not, then why do you act as if their salvation has been postponed?


You're not being clear. How exactly do you interpret Romans 9:6-8? When Paul said "not all who are descended from Israel are not Israel", what do you think he meant? When he followed that up by saying " In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring", what do you think that means?

This shouldn't be too hard to figure out. First, sin will eventually occur but, imo, it will probably be a few centuries before they begin, some gentiles may start sooner. Now if the total number of living Israelites that enter the millennium was 1 million, then 1 million would have accepted Christ as Lord and Savior on an individual basis, but if that 1 million is also the "total" population of Israel, then they have accepted Christ on a national level as well, which is what has been prophesied.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This shouldn't be too hard to figure out. First, sin will eventually occur but, imo, it will probably be a few centuries before they begin, some gentiles may start sooner.

What is this based on? This illustrates the problem. Your beliefs are based entirely on speculation rather than on scripture.

Beyond that, though, you do believe the Israelites will sin at some point during the thousand years. So, how can you say that they make an end of sin when Christ returns? That clearly would not be the case if they still sin after that. So, your understanding of how the making an end of sin prophesied in Daniel 9:24 is fulfilled is clearly flawed.

Now if the total number of living Israelites that enter the millennium was 1 million, then 1 million would have accepted Christ as Lord and Savior on an individual basis, but if that 1 million is also the "total" population of Israel, then they have accepted Christ on a national level as well, which is what has been prophesied.

Nowhere does scripture teach that every individual in Israel will one day accept Christ. Why would that be? It seems that only special divine intervention on their behalf could accomplish that, but then why would God, who is not a respecter of persons, only do that for one nation and not the rest? That does not make sense and contradicts God's character. You should not believe in a doctrine that contradicts God's character.