Ezekiel is a true prophet of God: Animal sacrifices will be in Christ's Millennium

[bbyrd009]

If you don't know, then why say it as fact?

"i dont know, but i suggest"
maybe we have different definitions of "say it as fact?"
lol

 

[bbyrd009]

Daniel's AOD and The Great Tribulation are future, just to mention a few

he said, with overwhelming confidence
in himself

 

[robert derrick]

Why are you avoiding the question? Here it is again:

When Paul said in Hebrews 10:9 "He taketh away the first", who is He, and what did He take away?

You agreed in post 66 that:
"Scripture says for all time and all people."

True. Jesus paid for sins of the world once for all, to forgive and cleanse all that come to Him by faith.

That obviously does not do away with all animal sacrifices, which do not do such things as only the Lamb of God can do, since God says they will be offered during His Son's Millennium.

Why are you unable to read what I plainly write? No doubt it's because you are unwilling to acknowledge what prophecy of Scripture plainly says.

It's time for certain Christians that reject some parts of prophecy of God, because they don't like them, to just say so and move on, and quit playing silly word games with each other.

 

[robert derrick]

Proof of incense and animal sacrifices accepted by the Lord, after His resurrection:

Isaiah 60:

Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

This is the resurrection of Jesus after His death on the cross, where all people are concluded in unbelief, and there is none believing in Him and righteous on earth.

And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side. Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.

This is the churches of God with natural Gentiles coming together with natural Jews into the body of Christ.

The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the praises of the LORD. All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee: they shall come up with acceptance on mine altar, and I will glorify the house of my glory.

This is incense and animal sacrifices offered upon the altar of the Lord in the house of His reign, after His glory has entered in to sit upon His throne on earth.

God will have incense and animal sacrifices upon His altar on earth, after the resurrection of His dear Son. Period.

Now, certain Christians can also alter Isaiah 60 along with Ezekiel 44-45.

The thing about Scripture is, that God has written His word, so that once anyone begins to try to do away with any part of it, or change one or two of them, they end up having to do so with many Scriptures speaking of and proving the same thing.

 

[robert derrick]

The fulfillment of prophecy of God, about what He will do, being dependent upon the deeds of men is false:

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Prophecy of God is never written by His prophets and apostles, dependent upon any man's opinions, imagination, and feelings.

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

No prophecy of God about Himself and what He will do, is dependent on the will of man and what any man does, other than the man Christ Jesus.

All prophecy of His Millennium, even as with His coming in the flesh, is dependent only on what He says He will do on earth, and the imagination and will of other men have nothing to do with it, except whether we take part in it or not.

Ezekiel 40- is about what the the Lord will do with His house and temple during His thousand year reign. It is not a prophetic wish based upon the will of man.

Even as there is no law of Christ declaring all burnt offerings to be forever forbidden on earth, there is no prophecy of Scripture in Ezekiel 40- declaring it is dependent on the will of man to be come to pass.

And so, the prophecy of Ezekiel will come to pass exactly as written in measurements, natural priesthood, and burnt offerings, because it is the prophetic word of what the King and Prince will have done on earth, and no man's will can stop it.

 

[covenantee]

True. Jesus paid for sins of the world once for all, to forgive and cleanse all that come to Him by faith.

That obviously does not do away with all animal sacrifices, which do not do such things as only the Lamb of God can do, since God says they will be offered during His Son's Millennium.

Why are you unable to read what I plainly write? No doubt it's because you are unwilling to acknowledge what prophecy of Scripture plainly says.

It's time for certain Christians that reject some parts of prophecy of God, because they don't like them, to just say so and move on, and quit playing silly word games with each other.

When Paul said in Hebrews 10:9 "He taketh away the first", who is He, and what did He take away?

Still avoiding.

Still afraid to answer.

 

[WPM]

True. Jesus paid for sins of the world once for all, to forgive and cleanse all that come to Him by faith.

That obviously does not do away with all animal sacrifices, which do not do such things as only the Lamb of God can do, since God says they will be offered during His Son's Millennium.

Why are you unable to read what I plainly write? No doubt it's because you are unwilling to acknowledge what prophecy of Scripture plainly says.

It's time for certain Christians that reject some parts of prophecy of God, because they don't like them, to just say so and move on, and quit playing silly word games with each other.

Why can you not tell us what covenant these blood sacrifices are under? Is this blood sacrifice arrangement you promote under the old covenant, the new covenant or a new old covenant?

Why can you not tell us for what purpose they will be resurrected?

 

[robert derrick]

Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us.

Prophecy of what the Lord will does on earth, is His oath of promise.

All prophecy of His Millennium, that is plainly during His reign on earth for a thousand years, is His oath, not His wish.

 

[robert derrick]

When Paul said in Hebrews 10:9 "He taketh away the first", who is He, and what did He take away?

Still avoiding.

Still afraid to answer.

Disagreeing with an answer is one thing, but denying the answer is given at all, is dystopian.

You 'amils' are a distinct camp that practices that. Or if you do acknowledge the answer, then you purposely misstate it into something else.

Now, a simple challenge for you: Just state plainly any part of Ezekiel's prophecy, or of other prophets, that will not come to pass in the King's future Millennium on earth.
-- The King's house built to measurement?
-- The Lord entering His house with His glory, to sit on His throne?
-- The natural priesthood of seed of Abraham?
-- The Levites that only keep charge of the gates?
-- The burnt offering for sin of the princes and people?
-- The yearly feast of tabernacles?
-- The nations flowing to the King, to hear His law and walk in His paths?
-- Those taking hold of the skirts of Jews to be led to God the King?

If the Lord does reign for thousand years on earth, which of the above will be not come to pass?

 

[WPM]

Proof of incense and animal sacrifices accepted by the Lord, after His resurrection:

Isaiah 60:

Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

This is the resurrection of Jesus after His death on the cross, where all people are concluded in unbelief, and there is none believing in Him and righteous on earth.

And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side. Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.

This is the churches of God with natural Gentiles coming together with natural Jews into the body of Christ.

The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the praises of the LORD. All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee: they shall come up with acceptance on mine altar, and I will glorify the house of my glory.

This is incense and animal sacrifices offered upon the altar of the Lord in the house of His reign, after His glory has entered in to sit upon His throne on earth.

God will have incense and animal sacrifices upon His altar on earth, after the resurrection of His dear Son. Period.

Now, certain Christians can also alter Isaiah 60 along with Ezekiel 44-45.

The thing about Scripture is, that God has written His word, so that once anyone begins to try to do away with any part of it, or change one or two of them, they end up having to do so with many Scriptures speaking of and proving the same thing.

Where is a millennium mentioned here? Nowhere. You are twisting Scripture to say what you believe. This is so wrong! With this type of convoluted hermeneutics you could literally make the Bible say anything you wish.

 

[covenantee]

Thanks for the response, you didn't answer the claims made regarding Isaiah 66:1-4, yes a temple/house is being built, yes animal sacrifice is seen

I'm fully aware of what the reformers believed, I disagree with much of their eschatology, I don't believe Roman Catholicism is Mystery Babylon, nor has the Pope's fulfilled Paul's (Man Of Sin) or John's (The Beast), Daniel's AOD and The Great Tribulation are future, just to mention a few

2 Thessalonians 2:4 clearly addresses the meaning of the NT temple, and Hebrews 10:9 clearly addresses animal sacrifice.

You may disagree with Scripture, history, and the historical defenders of the faith, but that does not negate their truth.

I'm surprised that after all you've seen regarding the papacy, you still subscribe to its deceptions, heresies, and blasphemies.

 

[WPM]

Disagreeing with an answer is one thing, but denying the answer is given at all, is dystopian.

You 'amils' are a distinct camp that practices that. Or if you do acknowledge the answer, then you purposely misstate it into something else.

Now, a simple challenge for you: Just state plainly any part of Ezekiel's prophecy, or of other prophets, that will not come to pass in the King's future Millennium on earth.
-- The King's house built to measurement?
-- The Lord entering His house with His glory, to sit on His throne?
-- The natural priesthood of seed of Abraham?
-- The Levites that only keep charge of the gates?
-- The burnt offering for sin of the princes and people?
-- The yearly feast of tabernacles?
-- The nations flowing to the King, to hear His law and walk in His paths?
-- Those taking hold of the skirts of Jews to be led to God the King?

If the Lord does reign for thousand years on earth, which of the above will be not come to pass?

I already addressed this in #57 and you already steered around it. You have to. I will repeat.

Amils believe Ezekiel was a true prophet of God. But he mentioned absolutely nothing about some future millennium. Helooked forward to Christ and His final sacrifice for sin. The conditional promises he presnted, to disobedient Old Testament Israel, that they failed to realize, through their rebellion, serves as a suitable shadow, type and figure of the perfect new covenant temple and the living water of the Spirit that flowed from Him.

Israel in Ezekiel’s day had sunk into deep idolatry and awful iniquity. God exposed the extent of the evil that existed within the camp in Ezekiel 43:8, saying, “they have even defiled my holy name by their abominations that they have committed: wherefore I have consumed them in mine anger.” Notwithstanding, God, as is His custom, reached out in His grace, mercy and love to them, exhorting them to turn from their wicked ways. He promised that He would bless them if they obeyed His voice.

He commanded them (in v 9): “Now let them put away their whoredom, and the carcases of their kings, far from me, and I will dwell in the midst of them for ever.”

God gave definite and unambiguous instructions to Israel regarding how they could regain the blessing of God. With God there is always the promise accompanied by the conditions. Just because God offers a blessing does not mean the outcome is a foregone conclusion. The realisation would be determined by the response. If Israel obeyed what God asked, the blessing would be released, if they didn’t it would be withheld.

Ezekiel 43:10 goes on to outline the gist and purpose of the vision of the temple, saying, “Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.”

Clearly God was making a genuine offer to Israel if they would only repent. Sadly, they didn't and they never entered into the reality of that offer. God essentially shows Israel a picture of what could be if they would only turn from their sin and rebellion. It was a promise of better things if only they would submit to God’s demands. It involved an improved arrangement to what existed at the time of the proposal. It was essentially a mirror that God set up in Ezekiel’s day to allow Israel to see how far (even in that day) they fell short of the old covenant requirements. It was to let Israel compare themselves and their practices against this vision of what God desired for them. God has always instructed Israel in the ideal yet they always fell short. Israel usually failed to adhere to God's conditions. In this situation God’s gracious provision did not materialise.

God simply wanted Israel to “be ashamed of their iniquities.” This was nothing new; in fact, that has always been God’s desire for His people. This was a promise that was built upon righteous conditions. If they would be repentant and humble themselves then they would experience the superior splendour of this new temple.

Ezekiel 43:11 continues, “And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.”

This vision was God’s blueprint for Israel in Ezekiel’s day. It was a design that contained important religious demands and was qualified with definite spiritual provisos. Israel was simply required to obey God’s conditions. The “ordinances,” “forms” and “laws” mentioned were to be kept by Israel in Ezekiel’s day. The fact that he commanded the Israelites of his day to “do them” showed that this wasn’t some distant prophecy after the new covenant period that had no direct relevance to them in that day.

The promise/vision here was intended to stir the people to righteousness in that generation. If they submitted, if they gave themselves to obedience and righteousness, the Lord would have them build a temple for His glory in that day. Again, we can see this is a conditional promise, which Israel had to fulfil before it would come to pass. We can see that it was particular to the Jews in Ezekiel's day. It was applicable to the nation in Ezekiel’s day and depicted how God wanted Israel to live under the old covenant. This was a standard that Israel was supposed to abide by.

Adam Clarke says: “If, in a spirit of true repentance, they acknowledge their past transgressions, and purpose in his help never more to offend their God, then teach them everything that concerns my worship, and their profiting by it.”

Of course, Israel disobeyed. They were not able to meet God's requirements therefore this temple never materialised. Despite Ezekiel’s warnings, they chose to walk in “their iniquities,” because of this, the vision of the temple that Ezekiel showed them (in chapters 40-48) was never built. History proves that they didn't because they wouldn't. This rebellious people failed to take a hold of the conditions, they therefore failed to take a hold of the blessing. That is the way it works in Scripture.

There is nothing in Ezekiel 40-48 that would suggest that this is an active ongoing unconditional promise to Israel. Quite the opposite! A greater temple followed just a few hundred years after Ezekiel's conditional vision; a temple that would last forever – God’s spiritual temple. The Old Testament sacrifices and ordinances had an expiration date, it was called the cross. Since then Christ is our lone eternal sacrifice for sin. He has rendered the rest needless and obsolete. This was an old covenant promise with old covenant ordinances that is now redundant under the new covenant arrangement. What is more, he was not speaking to some supposed generation of mortal rebels in your semi-corrupt semi-glorious future millennial age. There is zero evidence of that. Premils have created this theory to sustain their view of Revelation 20.

 

[covenantee]

Disagreeing with an answer is one thing, but denying the answer is given at all, is dystopian.

You 'amils' are a distinct camp that practices that. Or if you do acknowledge the answer, then you purposely misstate it into something else.

Now, a simple challenge for you: Just state plainly any part of Ezekiel's prophecy, or of other prophets, that will not come to pass in the King's future Millennium on earth.
-- The King's house built to measurement?
-- The Lord entering His house with His glory, to sit on His throne?
-- The natural priesthood of seed of Abraham?
-- The Levites that only keep charge of the gates?
-- The burnt offering for sin of the princes and people?
-- The yearly feast of tabernacles?
-- The nations flowing to the King, to hear His law and walk in His paths?
-- Those taking hold of the skirts of Jews to be led to God the King?

If the Lord does reign for thousand years on earth, which of the above will be not come to pass?

When Paul said in Hebrews 10:9 "He taketh away the first", who is He, and what did He take away?

How about I answer two of your questions, and you then answer my two. Deal?

Which two of your questions would you like me to answer?

 

[WPM]

When Paul said in Hebrews 10:9 "He taketh away the first", who is He, and what did He take away?

How about I answer two of your questions, and you then answer my two. Deal?

Which two of your questions would you like me to answer?

Good luck (and do do not believe in luck)! That is not how he works. He outlines error, that error is exposed, he then runs from the conversation without any retraction, apology or repentance.

 

[covenantee]

Good luck (and do do not believe in luck)! That is not how he works. He outlines error, that error is exposed, he then runs from the conversation without any retraction, apology or repentance.

I agree. But I thought I'd give it a try.

 

[robert derrick]

Nothing was taken out of context nor did you offer evidence of such.

Quoting one Scripture alone, without quoting other Scriptures pertaining to it in the same passage of Scriptures, so as to purposely separate them from one another, and turn that Scripture into something else than it is, is called taking out of context to wrest Scripture of God.

Sorry friend, but you've lost touch with reality in this particular matter.

The prince which is referred to in the singular is the head prince, not one of the many lower princes.

The prince and princes of Ezek 45, are not owners of the house and throne of the LORD, that He sanctifies with His glory.

Trying to turn any such prince into Lord and King of the house, is so obviously foolish, that it only merits a one time rebuke and dismissal.

In this certain case, you just show you are like others, that refuse to be corrected in your own pet teaching.

And as I said, it surprises me, especially now that you dig into your own ditch even further.

He does sacrifice animals for his own sins.

True. The King of His house and altar does not.

In this story, he is a mortal sinful man like all men.

Not a story. Prophecy of Scripture about what the Lord will do on earth, is His oath of promise to perform.

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

Ezekiel eyewitnesses in the vision of God, the majesty of the Lord in His earthly Millennium.

This is not prophecy

Yes, it is. You can call it fable all you like, but this prophetic oath of the King will come to pass, because even as He says, so shall He do.

and this prince is not Jesus.

Exactly, now you have it.

Jesus is the LORD entering His house with His glory.

You also failed to comment on all the other things in this that contradict what we know about the true Millennium like Priests being married or dying which is impossible since they would be immortal.

Your effort to make a prince into the owner of the house, deserved special attention.

Both the natural priesthood of Christ today can marry within the law of Christ, and during His Millennium they can marry, howbeit with further restrictions.

Belief that this part of Ezekiel is the Millennium is a weak spot in most Premill's theology.

Ezek 43:

Afterward he brought me to the gate, even the gate that looketh toward the east: And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory.

And it was according to the appearance of the vision which I saw, even according to the vision that I saw when I came to destroy the city: and the visions were like the vision that I saw by the river Chebar; and I fell upon my face.

And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east. So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house.

And I heard him speaking unto me out of the house; and the man stood by me. And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.

That man and King Christ Jesus has yet to enter with His glory into any house and temple on earth, after His resurrection.

So far, we see Him doing so only in prophecy, because He has yet to do so on earth, and will only do so to fulfill His prophecy of Himself, with His coming again to reign on earth for a thousand years.

Consider my words as you have once before and confront yourself on the points I made.

I have, and I can truly say I am surprised by your willful errors.

I guess it's just an amil thing, since all of you do it.

None of this has anything to do with being saved Christians saints today; however, the obvious willingness to twist any prophecy of Scripture is still not good.

 

[robert derrick]

Maybe it's time to wonder why blood and flesh of innocent animals is pleasing to a holy spirit.

No need for me. I'm not an animal rights' activist.

And I only kill by necessity, whether men or animals.

And it's no longer necessary to kill animals for sin sacrifice, as under the law of Moses, until Jesus' Millennium on earth, as by will of the King.

There will be both burnt offerings for sin by His natural priesthood, and salvation by the Lamb's gospel. preached personally by Himself and His resurrected saints.

 

[robert derrick]

i thought it was pretty pertinent?
you are being pathetic robert, and you might at least contemplate your end here, if nothing else

gee i wonder how many 62 year old Robert Derrick JWs live in Houston lol
what would your elders say to all this?
i mean dont get me wrong, i dont fault you for straying from that fold, ok...
but imo you will go the way of every other false eschatologist and Tomorrow Person,
which i guess sounds like some kind of superior chastisement, but i am only seeking to warn you ok

Thanks for the warning, and since you insist on joining the trolls here, then I'll give you my only warning to address the subject, or move on.

Or you can return to being just a jokester, since this other stuff really doesn't suit you.

I have found on this site, that those who refuse to be corrected in their doctrine, are also those who run swiftly to making it personal with attacks on the messenger.

That's why the moderators of the site have their rules with warning to ban such people. Not that I personally care or take offense, but it's just a childish waste of time.

 

[robert derrick]

This thread will be locked if you cannot refrain from having digs at one another. …….

Thank you for the warning.

I'll take it to heart, and I'll start reporting those who can't keep on subject.

Not just this thread, but also on others.

 

[robert derrick]

"Is this blood sacrifice arrangement you promote under the old covenant, the new covenant or a new old covenant?"

In the house of the King.

"Please explain what these animal sacrifices accomplish in your future millennium?"

The King's will.

"Where in Revelation 20, anywhere in the NT or anywhere in the OT does it says that (1) God will re-institute the slaughtering of animals on the new earth,"

Nowhere, just during the King's Millennium on this earth.

"that (2) it will be for sin,"
Yes, that is the prophecy:

And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering, and put it upon the posts of the house, and upon the four corners of the settle of the altar, and upon the posts of the gate of the inner court.

"that (3) it will start again in another dispensation (namely your alleged future millennium),"

If someone wants to call it that, but Scripture doesn't.

"nd (4) that they "will look back"?"

None of God's people look back:

Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before.

Unless it to remember what was taught and prophesied before in Scripture:

Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance; Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

"Why can you not tell us for what purpose they will be resurrected?"

This makes no sense.

Where is the Millennium mentioned here?

The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the praises of the LORD. All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee: they shall come up with acceptance on mine altar, and I will glorify the house of my glory.

Since this is after Jesus' resurrection in Isaiah 60, and there are animal sacrifices during His Millennium, then this must be during His Millennium, since it is not being fulfilled now.

There is nothing in Ezekiel 40-48 that would suggest that this is an active ongoing unconditional promise to Israel.

Not just to natural Israel, but also to the Israel of God, and to all people of earth today. Prophecy of what the Lord will do on earth, is His own personal oath, and will do so whether man wills it or not.

The only prophesied oath of God dependent upon the will of man, is His forgiveness and salvation by the faith of Jesus.