Romans 6:22

[Behold]

Never deny the holy scriptures in public,

I didnt deny any verse. I never do.

and you posted a verse that isn't talking to a person, or to a Church, (tho you dont know that) its talking to the gentiles, in the context of the Jews.
And its not a warning about losing Salvation.
That verse is very symbolic, so, as you do not understand it, a suggestion for you.
When you read about "branches" and "lamp stands" and "virgins", and all this symbolic language, NEVER us that against a born again believer.
Never use a symbolic verse, in a way that you are trying to force it to fit the heresy that you've been taught.

 

[Behold]

Why have they become subverted? You are using worldly
oratory and do not adhere to biblical terminologies.

You read very little bbie.
That is so obvious.

Its the NT, that uses the word "subverted" regarding what has happened to your faith.
Paul uses the term.
Its in Galatians.
Open your bible, and find out who is "subverted" in their faith., and how that happens.

If that does not interest you, then just read Titus 3:10-11, and find out your faith, being subverted.
Paul again, teaching.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

its not a warning about losing Salvation.
That verse is very symbolic, so, as you do not understand it

You say that this verse is not warning about salvation?

“…thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:20-22)

WHAT OTHER FAITH ARE WE STANDING ON OTHER THAN THE FAITH IN CHRIST???

When you read about "branches" and "lamp stands" and "virgins", and all this symbolic language, NEVER us that against a born again believer.

God uses all means of symbolism to throw men like you off who do nothing but seek ways to get away from the authority of all the scriptures.

Never use a symbolic verse

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16)

GET THEE BEHIND ME!

 

[Behold]

You say that this verse is not warning about salvation?

“…thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

GET THEE BEHIND ME!

I'll tell you again.
Do not use symbolic verses to try to deny the Cross of Christ.
Do not continue to use any verses, falsely, to try to prove that you can lose your salvation.
See, Michiah-Imla, as when you do that, you are doing the Devil's work.

Let me show you something again.
There is no CROSS of CHRIST found in your posts.
Why?
Because its always found in mine, and you are here opposing it with your "here is how i keep myself saved, demonic, "another gospel".
And not just you.

You gospel has NO CROSS IN IT.
It only has 1 John 1:9, and Hebrews 10:26, and some verses by Paul that you post but can't understand.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You say that this verse is not warning about salvation?

“…thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:20-22)

WHAT OTHER FAITH ARE WE STANDING ON OTHER THAN THE FAITH IN CHRIST???





God uses all means of symbolism to throw men like you off who do nothing but seek ways to get away from the authority of all the scriptures.



“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16)

GET THEE BEHIND ME!

So much venom you have!

If you paid attention to context and number, you would know Paul is talking about Jews vs. Gentiles in romans 10 and not individuals.

The fact we cannot lose our salvation is so well established in Scripture as should leave any follower of Jesus without doubt.

As Scripture says for but one instance:

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

 

[Johann]

You read very little bbie.
That is so obvious.

Its the NT, that uses the word "subverted" regarding what has happened to your faith.
Paul uses the term.
Its in Galatians.
Open your bible, and find out who is "subverted" in their faith., and how that happens.

If that does not interest you, then just read Titus 3:10, and find out your faith, being subverted.
Paul again, teaching.

Really? And no comments on the points, Pauline points, which you dismiss and sweep under a carpet?
You take he scissors and cut out those parts in the scriptures which is offensive and those that "fit" with your biased doctrine, that you'll leave.

In fact, you use a lot of words, but don't "say" anything at all.

my commentaries are saying much more than you do, promoting Paul.

You "claim" to be a Pauline expositor but you are butchering the Pauline epistles.
Your psychoanalysis on my character is way off and I find you misleading others.

Don't be a loose cannonball with no accountability, don't think for one minute you can come here, claiming your are a sound exegete on the Pauline letters, yet it is plain for all to see how far "left" you really are.

2Pe 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,

2Pe 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

2Pe 3:17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

 

[Behold]

If you paid attention to context and number, you would know Paul is talking about Jews vs. Gentiles in romans 10 and not individuals.

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Ronald,


Here is the thing...

You posted THE verse that proves that Salvation is God caused and God Maintained.

Notice in your verse ""HE that hath begun a good work.......in you.......(that is your Salvation)......and HE will be FAITHFUL to Complete it".

Who is "he"?

He is "GOD".

God will be faithful to complete your salvation.
And that makes sense as He is the one who provided Jesus as our Salvation.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Ronald,

His venom is his pride.
His commentary is his guide
Forever the Devil does hide,
Salvation from His eyes...

Here is the thing. Ronald

You posted THE verse that proves that Salvation is God caused and God Maintained.

Notice in your verse ""HE that hath begun a good work.......in you.......(that is your Salvation)......and HE will be FAITHFUL to Complete it".

Who is "he"?

He is "GOD".

God will be faithful to complete your salvation.
And that makes sense as He is the one who provided Jesus as our Salvation.

Thanks for the poem, though I wish both of you would tone it down and keep on point instead of the ad-hominems. I am intense debater and at times cross that line as well, but we should try to keep it godly as we are family.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I'll tell you again.
Do not use symbolic verses to try to deny the Cross of Christ.

I'll tell you again.
Do not to try to deny the holy scriptures with vain words.

you are here opposing it with your "here is how i keep myself saved, demonic, "another gospel"

“…neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure.” (1 Timothy 5:22)

You gospel has NO CROSS IN IT.

You doctrine has no holiness in it…

Hijacking the “Cross” to your false doctrine is an abomination.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

If you paid attention to context and number, you would know Paul is talking about Jews vs. Gentiles in romans 10 and not individuals.

Hey, @Ronald Nolette

WHAT FAITH ARE WE STANDING ON?

“…thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.” (Romans 11:20-21)

The “thou” here are the GENTILES!

What faith are the GENTILES here standing on?

THIS ONE!

“…faith of Jesus Christ…” (Romans 3:22)

There’s only ONE faith in scripture!

“One Lord, one faith, one baptism,” (Ephesians 4:5)

 

[Behold]

Really? And no comments on the points, Pauline points, which you dismiss and sweep under a carpet?

I dont really pay any attention to you trying to rewrite Paul's text to fit your heretic's commentaries.



So......Let me do this for you., so that you will never be able to say you were not told...

Q.).....Why can't a person go to heaven?
what is the problem?

The problem is..they have sinned., and from that spiritually fallen position, they have no righteousness of their own and can't get any.

Now, this sinner....can go to India and live 68 yrs feeding street children, and then they die, and go to hell.
Yet, they were good.
They lived a good life. They helped the poor, they tried to be like Christ.
Now, they are dead and in Hell.
Why?

Because God is HOLY, and they are NOT.
And nothing you can do, will make you Holy.
As only God can make you holy.......Only God can make you Righteous.
Water baptism certainly can't do that for you., as the issue is in your heart, and the pool water can't solve that PLACE.

So, how then do they die and NOT end up in hell, Johann?


A.) God has to solve their un-righteousness issue.
Remember?
Heaven has no SIN in it, and you can't go there unless you are Righteous.
We dont have any righteousness of our own, and God is Righteousness, and you can't belong to Hm, unless you are Righteous, also.
Yet, the person has sinned, they are not righteous, and they have to be "made righteous" to go to heaven.

How did God solve that for them?
How?
He sent Righteous Jesus to the Cross and Righteous Jesus became their sin.
And when they believe in Jesus, God takes Christ's Righteousness and "imputs" it to them..
They BECOME IT, as BORN AGAIN.
God literally takes Christ's Righteousness and causes their born again Spirit to have become it.
Now, they are become "the righteousness of God ... IN CHRIST".

see that?
That is a CHRISTian...
This means "to be in Christ".

That is your Salvation........This is how God GIVES IT TO YOU.

Now, look at all your literature and find out if the person(s) you are following is teaching that GIFT OF SALVATION< or if they are teaching you to try to earn it, or work for it, or confess sin to try to keep it.

If you look with right eyes at what i wrote , and compare it to Calvinism or the Catholic Doctrine, or any Legalism.. your commentaries, or online sites...you will see that there is such a contrast, between, the Gospel i gave you, and what you have been taught., and certainly what. you will often here on this forum that parades around as the "gospel"., but is literally "anti-Cross".

 

[Behold]

Hey, @Ronald Nolette

WHAT FAITH ARE WE STANDING ON?

Im standing on God's Gift of Righteousness. that is "the gift of Salvation".

Ronald will tell you also about that same CROSS of Christ.

 

[Behold]

You doctrine has no holiness in it…

Hijacking the “Cross” to your false doctrine is an abomination.

Its true that i dont teach that works or water save you.
But neither did Paul, teach those as Salvation.

You should learn why, Michiah-Imla.

Go here.. and find out what i "teach".

Romans 3:21-28

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;​

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Im standing on God's Gift of Righteousness. that is "the gift of Salvation".

You’re not standing in the faith?

“Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong.” (1 Corinthians 16:13)

 

[Behold]

Don't be a loose cannonball with no accountability,

Look in the mirror when you point that finger, deceiver.

 

[Behold]

You’re not standing in the faith?

God accepted my Faith, long ago, and saved me with the Blood of Jesus and the Death of Christ.

There is my STANDING.
There is my SALVATION.

Faith does not save you......God does.
See the Cross for an update., Michiah-Imla.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Faith does not save you......God does.
See the Cross for an update., Michiah-Imla.

“Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong.” (1 Corinthians 16:13)

Another scripture trampled under the foot of @Behold

I’m absolutely flabbergasted!

 

[Behold]

Thanks for the poem, though I wish both of you would tone it down and keep on point instead of the ad-hominems. I am intense debater and at times cross that line as well, but we should try to keep it godly as we are family.

When im dealing with the Godly, i keep it the same.

If im dealing with a Legalist, who is obsessed with OSAS, and has no idea what the Blood Atonement is, and is only on a forum to cause Chaos, and ruin real believer's faith, then , if they come to my Thread to do it, .. its going to be interesting for them.

God is Love and Jesus is God manifested in the flesh, and He told these types..."you are of the Devil" and occasionally used a whip to get ther attention.
So, there is "righteous indignation".
Even Paul said of the malicious Greeks that they were "dogs".

So, i do love these deceived people, but, that love is not going to feel good on them.

 

[Behold]

“Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong.”

You'll take your first step as a "grown up" believer, when you cease trying to keep yourself saved, and begin to give Jesus The Lord all the Credit due Him and His Cross for keeping you saved.

 

[Johann]

If you look with right eyes at what i wrote , and compare it to Calvinism or the Catholic Doctrine, or any Legalism.. your commentaries, or online sites...you will see that there is such a contrast, between, the Gospel i gave you, and what you have been taught., and certainly what. you will often here on this forum that parades around as the "gospel"., but is literally "anti-Cross".

BAPTISM

I. Baptism in the Jewish life

A. Baptism was a common rite among Jews of the first and second century.

1. preparation for worship at the temple (i.e., cleansing rite)

2. the self baptism of proselytes

If someone from a Gentile background were to become a full child of Israel, he had to accomplish three tasks:

a. circumcision, if male

b. self-baptism by immersion, in the presence of three witnesses

c. sacrifice in the Temple

3. an act of purification (cf. Leviticus 15)

In sectarian groups of first century Palestine, such as the Essenes, baptism was apparently a common, repeated experience. However, to mainline Judaism, John’s baptism of repentance would have been humiliating for a natural child of Abraham to undergo a Gentile acceptance ritual.

B. Some OT precedents can be cited for ceremonial washing.

1. as a symbol of spiritual cleansing (cf. Isa. 1:16)

2. as a regular ritual performed by the priests (cf. Exodus 19:10; Leviticus 16)

It should be noted that all other baptisms in first century Jewish culture were self-administered. Only John the Baptist's call for baptism involved him as an evaluator (cf. Matt. 3:7-12) and administrator of this act of repentance (cf. Matt. 3:6).



II. Baptism in the Church

A. Theological Purposes

1. forgiveness of sin – Acts 2:38; 22:16

2. reception of Holy Spirit – Acts 2:38 (Acts 10:44-48)

3. union with Christ – Gal. 3:26-27

4. membership in church – 1 Cor. 12:13

5. symbol of a spiritual turning – 1 Pet. 3:20-21

6. symbol of a spiritual death and resurrection – Rom. 6:1-5

B. Baptism was the early church’s opportunity for a person’s public profession (or confession). It was/is not the mechanism for salvation, but the occasion of the verbal affirmation of faith (i.e., probably, "Jesus is Lord"). Remember the early church had no buildings and met in homes or often in secret places because of persecution.

C. Many commentators have asserted that 1 Peter is a baptismal sermon. Although this is possible, it is not the only option. It is true that Peter often uses baptism as a crucial act of faith (cf. Acts 2:38,41;10:47).

However, it was/is not a sacramental event, but a faith event, symbolizing death, burial, and resurrection as the believer identifies with Christ’s own experience (cf. Rom. 6:7-9; Col. 2:12). The act is symbolic, not sacramental; the act is the occasion of profession, not the mechanism of salvation.

III. Baptism and Repentance in Acts 2:38

Curtis Vaughan, Acts has an interesting footnote on p. 28 related to Acts 2:38.

"The Greek word for ‘baptized’ is a third person imperative; the word for ‘repent,’ a second person imperative. This change from the more direct second person command to the less direct third person of ‘baptized’ implies that Peter’s basic primary demand is for repentance."



This follows the preaching emphasis of John the Baptist (cf. Matt. 3:2) and Jesus (cf. Matt. 4:17). Repentance seems to be a spiritual key and baptism is an outward expression of this spiritual change.

The New Testament knew nothing of unbaptized believers!

To the early church baptism was the public profession of faith. It is the occasion for the public confession of faith in Christ, not the mechanism for salvation!

It needs to be remembered that baptism is not mentioned in Peter’s second sermon, though repentance is (cf. Acts 3:19; Luke 24:17). Baptism was an example set by Jesus (cf. Matt. 3:13-18).

Baptism was commanded by Jesus (cf. Matt. 28:19). The modern question of the necessity of baptism for salvation is not addressed in the New Testament;

all believers are expected to be baptized. However, one must also guard against a sacramental mechanicalism! Salvation is a faith issue, not a right-place, right-words, right-ritual act issue!

Get yourself baptized.
J.