Behold
Well-Known Member
Have them look at your recent post that said you are "correcting my Lies" on the Fourm, and yet, you posted not a single quote.
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What does it mean to be born again?
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Have them look at your recent post that said you are "correcting my Lies" on the Fourm, and yet, you posted not a single quote.
I’m not saying I’m correct. I’m just saying it’s the only way I can see it currently.
But I also vaguely see epis objection. It’s something that makes me a bit queasy to see men have an attitude about Jesus that…well, I can’t explain it…
Johann
Well-Known Member
Absolutely correct, according to the scriptures.
Isa 53:10 Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
I'm not here to flatter you, here's the scriptures.
...and Epi is in serious error.
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Johann
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, Epi is dead wrong here.
But if you are still in doubt, leaning toward error, no one can help you.
I just looked up the word. It’s hamartia. It just means sin. Yet I still see it as sin offering rather than God made Jesus to actually be sin. I’ve got no defense for how I see it because in all of its occurrences it never once means sin offering but just sin. But the whole of scripture fits with how I see it (to my mind) because He IS the spotless lamb of God. I find that everywhere in scripture.
Behold
Well-Known Member
What a beautiful verse.
That verse explains why we go to heaven, and why Salvation can't be lost.
THe answer is right there on The Cross.
John 14:6
Johann
Well-Known Member
Compare hamartia with with Leviticus, or go to Bible hub and check this out for yourself
Question.
Did Christ became inherently sinful?
I don't want to spend too much time here, since you are Epi's disciple.
and Hashem hath laid on him [Moshiach] the avon (iniquity, the guilt that separates from G-d) of us all.
Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our sufferings, and nasah (carried [Vayikra 16:22; Yeshayah 53:12)] our sorrows; yet we did esteem him stricken, [i.e., like a leper is stricken] smitten of G-d, and afflicted [see verse 8 below].
Isa 53:5 But he was pierced [Yeshayah 51:9; Zecharyah 12:10 Sukkah 52a, Tehillim 22:17 Targum Hashivim] for our transgressions, he was bruised mei'avonoteinu (for our iniquities); the musar (chastisement) (that brought us shalom [Yeshayah 54:10] was upon him [Moshiach]; and at the cost of his (Moshiach's) chaburah (stripes, lacerations) we are healed.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased Hashem to bruise him; He hath put him to suffering; when Thou shalt make his nefesh an asham offering for sin, he (Moshiach) shall see zera [see Psalm 16 and Yn 1:12 OJBC], He shall prolong his yamim (days) and the chefetz Hashem (pleasure, will of Hashem) shall prosper in his [Moshiach's] hand.
I don't expect you to understand this, that's why you need to look these words up, yourself.
Avon, another word you may want to look up, Asham and Chattat, and look up sin, sin offerings...it's quick and easy.
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That’s crazy. I’m not his disciple. What does that even mean…? Im just going to ignore it and chalk it up to some of the bad spirit that other man speaks in having briefly stirred up your flesh.
And no, I’m not going to look those things up. You confuse me with your mishmash of Hebrew and Greek, so it won’t help me. I’m not that smart you know. And I only know one language.
And no, I’m not going to look those things up. You confuse me with your mishmash of Hebrew and Greek, so it won’t help me. I’m not that smart you know. And I only know one language.
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Johann
Well-Known Member
Johann
Well-Known Member
You just look up the word hamartia, but you don't want to look up the others?
Sorry if I confuse you, Satan is the author of confusion.
The "mishmash" makes perfect sense to me, we are to rightly divide/cutting straight the Scriptures.
But I can't help you.
Shalom
J.
That verse you mentioned is that queasy feeling I was talking about earlier and how I at least vaguely see what it is that Epi doesn’t like in the attitude of some toward Jesus.
However, it was our sicknesses that He Himself bore, And our pains that He carried; Yet we ourselves assumed that He had been afflicted, Struck down by God, and humiliated.
It’s telling what He did for us and then men having no esteem for Him and seeing Him as afflicted and struck down and humiliated by God. Men saw Him as cursed by God.
God didn’t take His life. He layed down His own life and He raised Himself. On PURPOSE. For me.
He said no one takes His life but He gives His life. And He said, destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up again.
However, it was our sicknesses that He Himself bore, And our pains that He carried; Yet we ourselves assumed that He had been afflicted, Struck down by God, and humiliated.
It’s telling what He did for us and then men having no esteem for Him and seeing Him as afflicted and struck down and humiliated by God. Men saw Him as cursed by God.
God didn’t take His life. He layed down His own life and He raised Himself. On PURPOSE. For me.
He said no one takes His life but He gives His life. And He said, destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up again.
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ScottA
Well-Known Member
You're doing fine.
It is not so much that Jesus "became sin", but rather that having no sin qualified Him to defeat it (by taking it upon Himself).
It just puts me in tears. That He loves and cares for me that much that He said, I will die so she can live.
I don’t know what you are saying here. I don’t think looking up other languages is necessary to rightly divide. I very rarely look up words in another language, maybe two or three times a year at most. And honestly, I didn’t need to look up even hamartia because I already knew that God did not make Jesus to be sin and I already knew that God did not pour out His wrath on Jesus. God was reconciling us to Himself.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Actually is IS SO MUCH that Jesus became our sin.
That is everything, as its sin that keeps you from God, = separated.
If that is not resolved you die in it...
So, God resolved it for you.... through the CROSS of CHRIST.
"God made Jesus to be sin for us".
So, if Jesus does not have your sin, ScottA, then you still have it.
It's all there, in Romans, particularly chapters 4 - 8. It's many places, but this is a very detailed presentation. Some "scheme" huh? Christ died, and by joining in His death, you die too, so you can share His resurrection. Regardless, I see the same thing from you still, and there is no need for lengthy response.
Much love!
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ScottA
Well-Known Member
Still, that is only one manner of speaking, that not all understand.
I myself understand it, but simply addressed the matter rather to be in accord with Jesus (and those who are His) as being "without sin" which is also written. Both statements are true.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
You are not reconciling all scripture, nor does Gnosticism. No partial or half-truth is all truth.
There is no "process" in "today is the time of salvation." Nor is there in "old things have passed, all things have become new." Nor is there in "you have past from death to life."
Nor is it stated in the scriptures that it takes the rest of ones life in this world to complete. That is rather confusion regarding just what it means to "endure unto the end", which end has a name: Jesus "the End." Therefore, one who has come to Jesus, has in fact endured to the End...and therefore "no condemnation."
But then comes unbelief. Observing sin in the world (even in ones own body) is not a view of one who has "passed from death to life", but is a view of the world that remains. And again comes confusion--for what does He say, but that "The kingdom of God does not come with observation?" Thus, if you observe sin in one who has "passed from death to life"--you are looking at it all wrong. You are judging the sin of one who was crucified with Christ, and therefore "have done it to Him."
Do not judge, but reconcile. "He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”
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Bible teaches born again as regeneration.
Ye must be born again, John 3:7
-Jesus answered and said to him, Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Reformed Churches of the Protestant reformation will teach you one cannot be born again i.e. regenerated without a miracle by the Holy Spirit. Their theology has one regenerated before faith.
One cannot have faith in Christ with a "Totally depraved heart".
God must work a miracle to transform ones heart that they might then have the ability to believe in Jesus.
This doctrine puts being born again before faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Titus 3:5
-not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us through,
the washing of regeneration(born again) and renewing of the Holy Spirit.
The bible teaches faith comes before regeneration,
The Bible is very plain that the lost sinner can hear the gospel and believe it.
No saved regenerated person hears the gospel and believes because he is already saved.
Romans 10:17
-So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
God teaches us all can understand His gospel, no need for regeneration to understand the scriptures.
Ephesians 3:4
-by which when you read you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ.
This disproves the churches that hold to reformed doctrine aka calvinism.
Unregenerate folks can understand the sacred Scriptures and even believe that Jesus died, buried and rose from the dead,
John 12:42
-Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Jesus but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him lest they be put out of the synagogue; for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
Some would argue these men are saved because they have belief in Jesus.
Not possible because the love men and their power more than the love to confess that Jesus is God.
1Corinthians 16:24,
-If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed, O, Lord come!
Ye must be born again, John 3:7
-Jesus answered and said to him, Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Reformed Churches of the Protestant reformation will teach you one cannot be born again i.e. regenerated without a miracle by the Holy Spirit. Their theology has one regenerated before faith.
One cannot have faith in Christ with a "Totally depraved heart".
God must work a miracle to transform ones heart that they might then have the ability to believe in Jesus.
This doctrine puts being born again before faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Titus 3:5
-not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us through,
the washing of regeneration(born again) and renewing of the Holy Spirit.
The bible teaches faith comes before regeneration,
The Bible is very plain that the lost sinner can hear the gospel and believe it.
No saved regenerated person hears the gospel and believes because he is already saved.
Romans 10:17
-So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
God teaches us all can understand His gospel, no need for regeneration to understand the scriptures.
Ephesians 3:4
-by which when you read you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ.
This disproves the churches that hold to reformed doctrine aka calvinism.
Unregenerate folks can understand the sacred Scriptures and even believe that Jesus died, buried and rose from the dead,
John 12:42
-Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Jesus but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him lest they be put out of the synagogue; for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
Some would argue these men are saved because they have belief in Jesus.
Not possible because the love men and their power more than the love to confess that Jesus is God.
1Corinthians 16:24,
-If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed, O, Lord come!
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