THE TRUTH OF DANIEL'S SEVENTY WEEKS PROPHECY

[amigo de christo]

In the Torah - God Promised to Israel a 'Deliverer', whom they must listen to in order to have REST.

Moses said "if anyone does not listen to that Prophet/Deliverer they will be forever cut-off from the Common Wealth of Israel.

The WHOLE Promise/Blessing of being part of the Common Wealth of Israel is GOD and HIS FORGIVENESS of SIN and SALVATION.

Therefore David, who was both a King and Prophet, said "God is my Rock and my Salavtion(Yeshua)."

Many kings in israel and prophets longed to hear and see the things the apostles did get to see and hear .
and yet those kings and prophets did not . YES INDEED there was a people who did wait for the promise . these died having faith
IN THAT SAVOIR . WHICH IS JESUS THE GLORIOUS CHRIST .
Come , we have FOUND HE of whom MOSES SPOKE . OH YES . THEY were waiting for the promise
of His coming . LET the GLORIOUS KING BE PRAISED .
We see the gospel even mentioned in amos . I will BUILD AGAIN the TABERNACLE THAT IS FALLEN .
THAT wasnt talking about AN EARTHLY KINGDOM . Cause PETER quoated it to the others
when talking about THE GOSPEL , and the adding in of the gentiles too . YEAH .
THERE a golden nuggets all over TORAH about CHRIST . ALL OVER IT . RUBIES that point to CHRIST .
AS did the LAW itself i might add , as well as did the prophets too . OH yes . And now we await
the promise of HIS COMING TOO , wherein all believers shall be with HIM forever and ever .
There are a moutain of gems all over the bible that foretold and pointed to Christ .
No wonder paul could spend an entire Day or more reasoning out of the scrips that pointed TO CHRIST .
cause they are all OVER . THAT WAS GODS PLAN . HIS PLAN FOR ETERNAL SALVATION . KING JESUS
the BLESSED OF GOD , the CHRIST , the anchor of our soul , the great high priest the bishop of our souls
and our very hope . PRAISE THE LORD . POINT TO HIM and all sound doctrine to the last and final breath .

 

[covenantee]

God did not fulfill the land promise in christ. They recieved it 400 years later. And it is stil theirs today.

again, Stop trying to mix a salvic covenant to all people with a land promise to one people.

Christ is the Heir of all things. Hebrews 1:1,2.

Stop trying to deny the plain Word.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Gotta go - Rejoice in the Holy Spirit tonight, sing and dance in your heart and make merry to the Lord our God - Amen

Hope you had a blessed evening!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Christ is the Heir of all things. Hebrews 1:1,2.

Stop trying to deny the plain Word.

Christ owns the world

he gave a plot of land to a nation of people. and said it was theirs forever

he also, as owner. gave salvation to those who receive him, and he said that gift to was forever.

He can do what he wants with his stuff, as he is god. However. when he says I give you forever. It is up to him to keep his promise

If he will not keep his promise to the nation. Nothing is keeping him from failing to keep his promise to those he saved

 

[amigo de christo]

Christ owns the world

he gave a plot of land to a nation of people. and said it was theirs forever

he also, as owner. gave salvation to those who receive him, and he said that gift to was forever.

He can do what he wants with his stuff, as he is god. However. when he says I give you forever. It is up to him to keep his promise

If he will not keep his promise to the nation. Nothing is keeping him from failing to keep his promise to those he saved

Yet how often he removed those who served other gods from that land .
The land just like the celestial kingdom is promised . To those whose faith is in GOD and His Christ .
One day the celestial city shall descend there .
But within that lovely and pure heavenly city will be no darkness , none that loved and made a lie
none that followed any other path . Only the believing jews and gentiles shall be there in paradise with the King .
The promise of the LORD applies to those who Loved HIM and if a man loves GOD he would have loved HIS CHRIST .
God even had the earthly temple destroyed completely twice and rainsacked at other times
DUE TO the evil of his own people . SO while the land was given them by promise
that promise applies to those who truly follow HIM , to those who are truly HIS .
for the flesh profits nothing , they , like we , MUST be born again . NO JESUS no eternal life .
No JESUS no kingdom of GOD . THERE is but one wonderful life giving plan for salvation for the jew and the gentile .
HIS NAME is CHRIST JESUS the GLORIOUS RISEN SAVOIR and KING , the GREAT BISHOP of our souls ,
our hope and our treasure The HIGH PREIST and only intercessor between God and men , the only reconciler
who reconciles men to God ., KING JESUS the GLORIOUS SAVOIR . Let us preach him while there still be time .
For many will wail on the day of the LORD for they denied HIM .

 

[FaithWillDo]

Rom 2.26 So then, if those who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised?

This verse does *not* say that Gentile converts become "spiritual Jews." Paul is saying that Gentiles meet the conditions of faith *outside of the Law* that Jews met while *under the Law.* In other words, Paul is referencing the OT Era, before there even were Christians. So he could not have been calling Gentiles in the OT era "spiritual Jews!" You'll never find that in the OT Scriptures. And this passage does not indicate that either.

Dear Randy Kluth,

You did not address the new scriptures I quoted nor did you answer my one direct question.

Your reasoning is not scriptural and for that matter, it is not even logical. You are approaching scripture with your beliefs already in your head and you then make scripture conform to those beliefs no matter what they actually teach. The church calls this method "exegesis" and it works very well to support the false teachings of Orthodox Christianity.

Scripture teaches a believer how to understand God's Word and that method is the only way truth can be found. This is a very involved subject though and should be discussed in another thread.

Don't you understand where a carnally minded believer's beliefs come from? They come from Satan who masquerades as an angel of Light (Christ) and from man's carnal nature (the Great Harlot). With those carnal beliefs, a believer will develop a "works" based belief system. It happens every time after an unbeliever receives the Early Rain and is called out from the world. A called out believer DOES NOT have "eyes that can see" so they remain carnally minded. Only the Latter Rain of the Spirit will heal a believer's spiritual blindness.

This is why Christ said this:

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

All mankind is under the Law from birth and that is why mankind is "condemn already" (John 3:18). They prefer the Old Wine of Law (man's works) when they try to approach God. This is religion and it applies to all the religions of the world. Religion prefers to drink the Old Wine because it is more pleasing to a person's taste (carnal nature).

One more time:

Gal 3:7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are SONS OF ABRAHAM.

Who are these "sons of Abraham"? They are spiritual Jews who are of "faith".

Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

This is very clear. All who are "in Christ" are Abraham's spiritual seed and heirs to the Promise. If a person is not a spiritual descendent of Abraham (spiritual Jews) they are not saved.

This understanding is important but not nearly as important as understanding the truth that Christ is mankind's Savior - not just some of mankind but 100% of mankind.

Here is why it is so important:

There are only three reasons a believer can have to believe that Christ will not save mankind.

1). They think that mankind supposed "free will" ability is too strong for Christ to overcome. This belief is utter nonsense and can be disproven with just one verse:

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

2). They think that some people are just not smart enough, not wise enough or just too evil to ever be saved. This belief is also a lie from Satan. ALL MANKIND is born with a carnal spiritual nature and with that nature no man can understand Christ or even have a desire to seek Him out.

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

For this reason, salvation comes only from the "works" of Christ.

3). The believer thinks that mankind must "do something" (works) to be saved, even if it is just a confession of faith.

With that mind set, the believer will remain under the Law and will not be under Grace. Salvation comes solely by "faith" and not by any "works" of man. Paul even said that if a believer thinks that they need to do just even one work, they will come under the Law (Gal 5:3-4) and will be fallen from Grace. The church has made the confession of faith a "work" and they have fallen from Grace.

Since the third reason is the most common, I will explain it in greater detail.

Mankind is born "spiritually marred" (Jer 18:4). The flaw is in mankind's spiritual nature - it is weak. Because it is weak, our flesh easily assumes control of the thoughts and beliefs of the mind, thereby making it carnal. Satan feeds upon mankind's carnality and he does it through "deception".

With a carnal nature & mind, mankind cannot know or follow Christ and they will certainly not be able to confess Jesus as Lord.

For this reason, Christ MUST come to us without our asking Him to come and without our permission for Him to give us the Early Rain of the Spirit. Paul's conversion experience is a "type" which teaches this truth.

With the Early Rain of the Spirit, the believer will then confess Jesus as Lord and can no longer reject Him.

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

With the Early Rain of the Spirit, the unbeliever is now "called out" and will enter the church. However, the Early Rain is only a down payment of the Spirit (a small amount, Eph 1:13-14)) which is not enough to destroy the believer's carnal nature (Great Harlot). In other words, the Spirit cannot govern the believer and they will remain carnally minded.

To make matters worse for the new believer, shortly after they are "called out", Satan will come to them via the spirit of anti-Christ. With the spirit of anti-Christ indwelling the new believer, it will make them more carnally minded that before they received the Early Rain.

Christ taught this truth here:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents Satan's false truth. Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more (represents the spirit of anti-Christ) since their house remains void of the truth of Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within them, they now have EIGHT. The number EIGHT is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

John tells the church that the spirit of anti-Christ is coming and has in fact, already come:

1John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Paul calls the believer who has the indwelling spirit of anti-Christ the Man of Sin:

2Thes 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there comes a falling away first, and that MAN OF SIN be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

After an Elect believer has fully "fallen away" and has become a Man of Sin, they are now ready for Christ to come to them a second time (the second coming of Christ) and pour out the Latter Rain. With the Latter Rain, the believer's carnal spiritual nature will be destroyed (in "one hour" Rev 18:9-10). With its destruction, the Spirit will heal the believer's spiritual blindness and the truth of scripture will open up to them. As they learn the truth of God, it will slowly change the believer's carnal mind into the Mind of Christ. This is what it means to be "converted".

Because mankind's salvation comes solely from the work of Christ, Christ will save all mankind just as He promised He would do. Then all who died in Adam will be made alive "in Christ" and Dan 9:24 will be fulfilled.

Joe

 

[covenantee]

Christ owns the world

he gave a plot of land to a nation of people. and said it was theirs forever

You plainly refuse to understand the meaning and significance of the New Testament in the Blood of Christ, and His fulfillment of all of the promises of God. 2 Corinthians 1:20

What part of "all" are you unable to understand?

Quote the NT Scripture in which Christ "gave a plot of land to a nation of people. and said it was theirs forever".

 

[covenantee]

He can do what he wants with his stuff, as he is god. However. when he says I give you forever. It is up to him to keep his promise

If he will not keep his promise to the nation. Nothing is keeping him from failing to keep his promise to those he saved

If I write a will that includes you as an heir, and then subsequently write a new will that removes all mention of you as an heir,

Which will is recognized as being in force and effect?

The old?

Or the new?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You plainly refuse to understand the meaning and significance of the New Testament in the Blood of Christ, and His fulfillment of all of the promises of God. 2 Corinthians 1:20

What part of "all" are you unable to understand?

Quote the NT Scripture in which Christ "gave a plot of land to a nation of people. and said it was theirs forever".

I give up

Good day sir.. I will wipe the dust off my feet.

God keeps his promises, whether he made them 4000 years ago or 2000 If you don;t agree. that's on you

 

[covenantee]

I give up

Good day sir.. I will wipe the dust off my feet.

God keeps his promises, whether he made them 4000 years ago or 2000 If you don;t agree. that's on you

When you're fighting Christ and His New Covenant,

Giving up is your only recourse.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Dear Randy Kluth,

You did not address the new scriptures I quoted nor did you answer my one direct question.

Your reasoning is not scriptural and for that matter, it is not even logical. You are approaching scripture with your beliefs already in your head and you then make scripture conform to those beliefs no matter what they actually teach. The church calls this method "exegesis" and it works very well to support the false teachings of Orthodox Christianity.

So you admit you're not doctrinally-orthodox? Do you belong to a heterodox sect of some kind?

"Exegesis" is the standard way of interpretation. It is what you do when you interpret Scriptures.

I'll address one or two passages, if you wish to state them separately?

Scripture teaches a believer how to understand God's Word and that method is the only way truth can be found. This is a very involved subject though and should be discussed in another thread.

Don't you understand where a carnally minded believer's beliefs come from? They come from Satan who masquerades as an angel of Light (Christ) and from man's carnal nature (the Great Harlot). With those carnal beliefs, a believer will develop a "works" based belief system. It happens every time after an unbeliever receives the Early Rain and is called out from the world. A called out believer DOES NOT have "eyes that can see" so they remain carnally minded. Only the Latter Rain of the Spirit will heal a believer's spiritual blindness.

Works-based attempts at Salvation we both agree are not legitimate. Christ alone merits our Salvation.

I do *not* advocate for a "works-based system," as such. But I do absolutely claim that humanity can act in the image of God, as we were created. People can do good, even if they cannot obtain their own Salvation.

Gal 3:7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are SONS OF ABRAHAM.

Who are these "sons of Abraham"? They are spiritual Jews who are of "faith".

I've already addressed this. Being "sons of Abraham" is not the same thing as being called "Spiritual Jews."

Joe, you want to promote your Christian beliefs, with no regard for what our differences are, as I've spelled out. You claim I haven't addressed your arguments or Scriptures, when in reality I did, conceptually, from the start. It's you who fail to recognize our points of difference, and instead go on to promote your beliefs.

I'm not quarreling with some of your stated beliefs--they just have little to do with our differences. You just don't address those differences. Perhaps you don't really understand what they are?

Again, being a "son of Abraham by faith" is not the equivalent of being a spiritual "Israeli." There are sons of Abraham who are not "Israeli" at all!

To be a "spiritual Israeli" is, for me, to be a Jewish convert to Christianity. You're using the word "spiritual" to turn the word "Israel" into a metaphor, when to be "spiritual" simply means to walk by the Spirit of Christ. A literal Israeli can become a "spiritual Israeli" simply by choosing to turn from Judaism to Christianity. It has nothing to do with turning a literal ethnicity or nationality into a metaphor for something else.

 

[ScottA]

Dear ScottA,
Many say that I am "too wordy" but I do try and keep it as simple as I can. The problem is that the "church" is spiritually blind and is eating a leavened loaf of bread (Mat 13:33). As far as I am aware, there is not one doctrine of Orthodox Christianity that is true. Some have a little truth mixed into them but the key doctrines are all completely false (Free Will, Hell and Trinity).

With this in mind, when I write a paper, I have to expand what I am teaching to help a person overcome the other errors in their beliefs.

Like with Daniel's Seventy Weeks prophecy, a person must understand that Christ will save all mankind when His work is completed. If a person does not believe that truth, how are they going understand and believe what Daniel 9:24 teaches?

Here is my shortest version of the prophecy without supporting scriptures:

The prophecy teaches the fulfillment of the promises made to Abraham. Christ is the one who will fulfill them. 69 weeks of years pass before Christ begins His work of fulfilling the promises. When Christ comes in the flesh and is baptized by John the Baptism, the last week begins (the 70th week). This week starts off under the Old Covenant and is literal and physical. Then after 3 1/2 years of earthly ministry, Christ is "cut off" at the cross. This event causes the sacrifices and oblation to cease because Christ's death fulfilled the Old Covenant of Law. Upon Christ's resurrection, the New Covenant began.

The New Covenant though is vastly different from the Old Covenant. Most believers have a great deal of difficulty in understanding this difference. Under the New Covenant, the "works" come from Christ. His works are inward and spiritual and can't be seen in the world with human eyes. The Old Covenant is the exact opposite. The "works" come from mankind and they are outward and physical. The world can witnesses these works.

When reading scripture, we are told to rightly divide the Word by these two covenants. For example: prophecies which are fulfilled under the time of the Old Covenant are fulfilled outwardly and physically. They can be witnessed in the world. In contrast, the prophecies which are to be fulfilled under the New Covenant are fulfilled within (spiritually) a person and cannot be witness out in the world.

Improperly dividing the Word by these two covenants is one of the biggest problems for a believer in learning the truth of what a prophecy teaches.

Since we are now under the New Covenant, all the "end-time prophecies (like Daniel's prophecy) must be applied spiritually to a single person. All end-time prophecies are fulfilled in this manner. To make it even more difficult to understand, scripture uses spiritual symbols to teach these prophecies. However, once a person realizes that the prophecies all teach on certain aspects of the Pathway to Salvation, they become much easier to understand. For example, when the end of the ages come to a believer, they will receive the Latter Rain and will be saved. For them, the end of the ages come to them and Daniel's prophecy is fulfilled.

At the commencement of the New Covenant, Christ had only 3 1/2 years left to fulfill Daniel 9:24. However, since the New Covenant is spiritual, the remaining 3 1/2 years are also spiritual and are not bound by literal time.

The last 3 1/2 years will be fulfilled by Christ's work within each person who has ever lived. His work begins when Christ comes a person and gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. This is the same as the Holy Spirit of Promise (Eph 1:13-14) and is only an earnest amount (a down payment). This down payment amount of the Spirit will give a person a measure faith but it will leave them carnally minded and spiritually blind. For that reason, the believer is susceptible to "falling away" and losing their salvation. In fact, in accordance with the Pathway to Salvation, a new believer will fall away under the deception of Satan EVERY TIME. This is the apostasy Paul mentioned and was caused by the "wolves" coming into the church after the Apostles died. John referred to it has the coming of the spirit of anti-Christ. With Satan's spirit indwelling the church, the entire church became harlot.

The only solution for a believer in this condition is for Christ to "come again" to the believer and give them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. This is the baptism Paul received in Damascus and is the same baptism the Apostles received on the Day of Pentecost. With this baptism, it will heal the believer's spiritual blindness and they will no longer receive their truth from this world (sun & moon are darkened). Now with "eyes that can see", the believer will suddenly realize that they are the Man of Sin and they will see the Abomination of Desolation which occurred within themselves. Once they "see" this truth, judgment will fall on the Man of Sin and he will be removed from the believer and cast into the Lake of Fire. With this judgment, the believer is converted and will be "born again" as a child of God. They will then be saved and can NEVER fall away again. This is the conversion event and it will complete the last 3 1/2 years of Daniel's prophecy for that particular believer. Christ will then repeat His work within all mankind until every person who has ever lived is saved. Only then will Daniel's prophecy be fully accomplished.

I hope this is not too confusing for you. It also probably isn't any shorter than my summary, but I did my best to shorten it.

If you have any specific questions, I will be happy to respond. My time today is short though so I may have to reply tomorrow morning.

Joe

Joe,

Thank you. I asked not for myself, but rather that others might bring together the things of God into summary and recount, for these are the times of summary.

You have stated things quite well, with only a few exceptions:

• Christ will indeed save all of mankind, according to the first Adam and the Last, but with the exception of those who's father is Satan, the son of perdition whom has his own children. Thus, all are not saved as some believe, for darkness is not saved, but dissolved, i.e. eliminated. Even so, you are correct regarding the man of sin, as everyone is a man of sin, and all are revealed.
• You are also somewhat correct on the times and the idea of former and latter rain. Still your explanation includes too much of the terms of the times of this world which is not the rule, and not enough of the terms and rule of God in whom there is no passing of time except in the revelation of all things in story or time form--things that were actually before the foundation of the world (and time). Which is the premise upon which the word of truth is rightly divided. All of which indeed requires the renewing of the mind. Nonetheless, all in good time.
• The times then determined for Daniel's people are regarding all who are "in Christ", both the dead and the living, and include the First and the Last since Adam. Which is to say, all of time is the fulfillment of "a time, times, and half a time." Meaning, all of time is divided before and after Christ in times, and divided as the light is divided from the darkness with only the light (half) remaining. All the times of men then, are as it was stated in the beginning, and are but an "image" of, as it were, the words of a book written before the foundation of the world and now made manifest in the revelation of Jesus Christ. Even so, because "God is the same yesterday, today, and forever", if it were even possible, the events of this world are not so much on a timeline, but in real time--that is, in God, and not actually in time.

 

[Davy]

The OP(s) and any posts that agree with it, are BOGUS, because it is pushing men's theories of Preterism.

The final 70th week has NOTHING to do with the Ministry of Lord Jesus Christ at His 1st coming.

That final 70th week is about the final Antichrist that is to come at the very END of this world. It is the "one week" (7 years) of Daniel 9:27 about the coming pseudo-Christ Jesus warned about that will place the "abomination of desolation" IDOL in a rebuilt Jewish stone temple in Jerusalem for the END, i.e, for the time of "great tribulation". THIS is what God's Word actually teaches us. The "image of the beast" at the end of Revelation 13 is what that IDOL abomination will be about in Jerusalem.

So BEWARE of the Preterists on this thread that try to make you think the Daniel 70 weeks prophecy has already been completed, because IT HAS NOT.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

How could Daniel 9:24 have been "fulfilled" when sin and evil is rampant in this world, and Satan continues to remain the "god of this world"? "Everlasting righteousness" on earth and in Israel means literally "everlasting righteousness".

When exactly do you believe it will be fulfilled?

I believe you have the wrong perspective on what Daniel 9:24 is all about. It's not about the literal end of sin and evil, it's about Jesus Christ making the way for people to have their sins forgiven and taken away while receiving the hope of eternal life.

Here is my understanding of the fulfillment of each of the six things listed in Daniel 9:24 as I see them explained in scripture.

1. To Finish Transgression

Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Hebrews 9:15 "That is why he is the one who mediates the new covenant between God and people, so that all who are invited can receive the eternal inheritance God has promised them. For Christ died to set them free from the penalty of the sins they had committed under that first covenant."

John 4:34 "Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work."

Romans 4:15 "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace".

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

2. To Put an End to Sin

Romans 8:1 "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1 John 3:5 "And ye know that He was manifested to take away our sins; and in Him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not"

2 Cor 5:21 "For He hath made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him."

1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

3. To Make Reconciliation for Iniquity

Hebrews 2:17 "Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people."

2 Corinthians 5:19 "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them"


4. To Bring In Everlasting Righteousness

Matthew 3:15 "And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him."

Romans 5:21 "That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord."

Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

5. To Seal Up the Vision and Prophecy

Luke 18:31 "Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished."

Luke 24:44 "And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me."

Matt 26:56 "But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled."

6. To Anoint The Most Holy

Acts 10:38 "How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him."

Acts 4:27 "For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed"

Luke 4:18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel"

We need to allow scripture to interpret scripture whenever possible. Scripture itself gives us the timing of the fulfillment of Daniel 9:24, as can be seen in the scriptures above.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Dan 9 is all about Israel, the holy city and the temple

Daniel prayed for them, and confessed his sins

Gabriel came and gave him the answer to his prayer concerning those things

make an end of sin, is make an end of Israels sin against God.. this is not accomplished until Israel repent.. which is at the end of the 70th week.

This has nothing to do with the church.. people who try to make it fit with the church are taking the prophecy out of context.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You still don't get it, and probably never will since you are going by man-made doctrines. But here is what we are talking about, and you will not find this on earth right now: And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. (Isa 32:17)

Do you see any of this on earth right now? Or would you rather fool yourself? Who will establish this righteousness, peace, and quietness other than the Lord Jesus Christ when He comes to reign on earth? There will be NO WARS anywhere on earth. But you are trapped in your fake interpretations.

Are you forgetting about Satan's little season (Rev 20:7-9)? In your Premillennialist view, sin will not come to an end when Christ returns, but rather 1,000+ years later. So, how can you think that Daniel 9:24 will be fulfilled when Christ returns if you think it has to do with the literal end of sin in Israel and on the earth?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Are you forgetting about Satan's little season (Rev 20:7-9)? In your Premillennialist view, sin will not come to an end when Christ returns, but rather 1,000+ years later. So, how can you think that Daniel 9:24 will be fulfilled when Christ returns if you think it has to do with the literal end of sin in Israel and on the earth?

Because Israel will make an end of her sin of unbelief.

thats what it is all about

she will not longer play the harlot. And no longer reject God,

its not about sinless perfection.

 

[FaithWillDo]

So you admit you're not doctrinally-orthodox? Do you belong to a heterodox sect of some kind?

"Exegesis" is the standard way of interpretation. It is what you do when you interpret Scriptures.

I'll address one or two passages, if you wish to state them separately?

Works-based attempts at Salvation we both agree are not legitimate. Christ alone merits our Salvation.

I do *not* advocate for a "works-based system," as such. But I do absolutely claim that humanity can act in the image of God, as we were created. People can do good, even if they cannot obtain their own Salvation.

I've already addressed this. Being "sons of Abraham" is not the same thing as being called "Spiritual Jews."

Joe, you want to promote your Christian beliefs, with no regard for what our differences are, as I've spelled out. You claim I haven't addressed your arguments or Scriptures, when it reality I did, conceptually, from the start. It's you who fail to recognize our points of difference, and instead go on to promote your beliefs.

I'm not quarreling with some of your stated beliefs--they just have little to do with our differences. You just don't address those differences. Perhaps you don't really understand what they are?

Again, being a "son of Abraham by faith" is not the equivalent of being a spiritual "Israeli." There are sons of Abraham who are not "Israeli" at all!

To be a "spiritual Israeli" is, for me, to be a Jewish convert to Christianity. You're using the word "spiritual" to turn the word "Israel" into a metaphor, when to be "spiritual" simply means to walk by the Spirit of Christ. A literal Israeli can become a "spiritual Israeli" simply by choosing to turn from Judaism to Christianity. It has nothing to do with turning a literal ethnicity or nationality into a metaphor for something else.

Dear Randy Kluth,

You asked:
So you admit you're not doctrinally-orthodox? Do you belong to a heterodox sect of some kind?

My wife and I do not attend any church nor do we fellowship with any organized groups. We haven't since the end of 2005 when we were converted. Now our fellowship is with Christ and the Father and the few on-line converted believers we have met.

Below is my testimony which was written in late 2005.

In the year 2000, I had relocated to Fayetteville, AR with my family. We visited many churches during those first years there but we never could find any that seemed to have a real love for the Lord. After our own personal study of the scripture, we decided that we wanted to be baptized in the name of Jesus instead of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit as we had done many years ago. We could not find any churches that would baptize this way until we talked to a friend who went to a Oneness Pentecostal church in Bentonville, AR. We decided to go and be baptized there even though we were from a Church of Christ/Baptist type background.

Four weeks later, my wife was filled with the Spirit at home and started speaking in tongues. It was a very powerful experience with her. She was constantly filled for about two weeks, speaking in tongues nearly every time she opened her mouth. She spent a great deal of time on her knees in tears speaking in tongues as she prayed. We didn't really know what to think of it. Like I said, we were from a church background that denies tongues. We were not children either, I was 43 and she was 37. We really were amazed with her experience. A few weeks went by and she would still go on her knees in prayer every day and the Spirit would speak through her in tongues until one day as she spoke, the words changed into English. We soon realized that she was prophesying in the Spirit. We had never even heard of this gift before and were greatly amazed by it. Over the next year & a half, she received "words" (that is what we call them) from the Lord more than two dozen times. One of the words she received told us (me & her) that the Lord had great treasure for us if we would continue seeking him.

I will quote it to you:

"I am. I know your heart. Seek Me and I will be found. Look deep into My Word. The truth is not to be given by man but only revealed by Me. It is for those whose hearts desire it above the treasures of this world. You must give up all and treasure you will receive. I am the truth and the only way. I am the Lord."

Julie received this "word" in July 2004. I know what you are thinking - I wouldn't have believed it is real either if someone were to tell me about it happening to someone else. I was not sure whether to believe it or not for a long time. But after a few months, I did come to believe it was really from the Lord because the things she prayed over and received "words" concerning, would come to pass just as she prophesied.

Then in October, 2005, my Christian journey suddenly changed from out of the blue. I saw a picture on foxnews.com of a young Muslim boy (age 12) who had just lived through the recent Pakistan earthquake. For some reason, my heart for this boy was really going out to him. I have rarely ever felt this way before by a news story. That evening in prayer at home, the image of the boy came back to me and I grieved for him as I prayed. I was not grieving for him because of the earthquake but because I thought that he was going to be eternally lost and that he really doesn't have a realistic chance of being saved. I couldn't understand why I had been blessed with the opportunity to know the Lord and why he had virtually no opportunity to know Him since he was living in a Muslim country. I asked the Lord why this was the case. I was so confused and couldn't understand why he was most likely going to hell just because of where he had been born. Almost three days had passed since I had prayed that prayer and I had not given it much more thought. But on that third day (Friday, Oct. 7, 2005) I had some extra time at work so I decided to study "end-time" prophecy on the internet (my great passion). I went to Google and searched on a couple of words (I can't remember them now) and a list of websites came up. I looked through the list and noticed Ray Smith's website “bible-truths.com”. I thought it looked interesting so I clicked on it. By the next morning, I had read his Lake of Fire Series for a few hours and was now on part four. I couldn't believe what I was reading but I felt compelled to continue reading it anyway. Later that same morning (Saturday, Oct. 8, 2005), I took a break from my reading to pray about it. I prayed for the Lord to open my eyes if what Ray Smith had written was true and went back to reading. I was still on the fourth part when the Lord suddenly opened my eyes. I became overjoyed at the truth the Lord had just revealed to me! It was joy like I had never felt before in my life. It was at that point that I remembered my prayer from earlier in the week concerning the Muslim boy. Immediately, I knew that this new truth which the Lord had just shown me was the answer to that prayer. I was overjoyed again. I then decided to find Julie (she was in the kitchen) and share with her what the Lord had just revealed to me. I explained to her what I had been reading and pointed out the supporting scriptures. Within 30 minutes, she, too, received this new truth.

The last 4 weeks Julie and I have studied scripture every day and have been trying to share the new truths with our friends at church. But cutting through the details, we ended up leaving the church for good a few days ago. No one there could receive the truth that the Lord had revealed to us. In just four short weeks, we had learned so much from our studies that nearly everything we knew before as “truth”, we now knew to be lies. I could hardly believe how spiritually blind we were just a few short weeks before. Now from scripture, we have come to understand what had just happened in both our lives - the Lord had appeared unto us a second time, baptized us with His Spirit (Latter Rain) and healed our spiritual blindness. We found the "treasure" the Lord said we would receive (Julie’s prophecy from July 2004). We didn't even remember her receiving that "word" until I stumbled across it a few days ago from an old email I had sent to a family member. When I reminded Julie of it and read it to her, she was filled with tears of joy.

The next day, Julie received another "word" from the Lord. It said:

"I will answer. I have shown you the truth in My Word. It is only revealed to those who seek it. It is by faith. It is for those who seek to know Me. I will bring all before My judgment, which is righteous and true. I will complete all things as I have committed to do by My Word. The things of the Spirit cannot be understood by man, even if I reveal it. It will be as I have spoken it. Some will hear and not believe. Some will hear and search but will desire the favor of men more than Me. Some will hear and seek understanding, and by faith I will show them. These will be few. These few will rejoice as one who has found great treasure! Keep seeking, remain faithful and I will give abundant blessings. You ask of Yahweh. I Am that I Am, come to men to show them the Light. Of the One, from and in the One when all things are completed as it was established before time. All will be brought to life in the One. It will not then be needful to show man God or give man His Spirit. Man cannot receive more because he cannot understand".

Over the years since our conversion, the Lord has blessed us beyond anything we could have imagined. And as we were “freely given”, we now freely give to those who truly seek to know the Lord.

I will respond again in the morning to some new points I want to make about our discussion. I'm out of time for today.
Joe

 

[Enoch111]

Are you forgetting about Satan's little season (Rev 20:7-9)? In your Premillennialist view, sin will not come to an end when Christ returns, but rather 1,000+ years later. So, how can you think that Daniel 9:24 will be fulfilled when Christ returns if you think it has to do with the literal end of sin in Israel and on the earth?

I was simply being very brief. There are a series of events which must take place after the Second Coming of Christ as noted in Revelation 19 and 20. Eventually God will establish a New Heavens and a New Earth "wherein dwelleth righteousness". And that is when eternal righteousness will be established on earth.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

God said it would be theirs FOREVER

has forever ended?

How will that land be theirs forever in light of this:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

All of God's people should be "looking forward to a new heaven and new earth, where righteousness dwells", not just some measly piece of land that is nothing compared to the eternal new earth.

Why don't you change your perspective like Abraham and the other Old Testament saints did and look for an eternal heavenly country and a city whose builder and maker is God instead of a relatively small piece of land on this earth? Have you never read the New Testament?

Hebrews 11:
8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. 11 And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because she[b] considered him faithful who had made the promise. 12 And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore. 13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

Abraham himself does not have the same expectations for the future that you have. Why don't you try to be like him and look forward to a better country, a heavenly one, and a "city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God"? God has so much more in store for His people than a useless and meaningless piece of land in Israel.