THE TRUTH OF DANIEL'S SEVENTY WEEKS PROPHECY

[covenantee]

Your explanation of the flood is greatly lacking but so is everyone else’s . No matter what their view is

From the Hebrew:

7858 [e]
ḇaš·še·ṭep̄,
בַשֶּׁ֔טֶף
with a flood
Prep‑b, Art | N‑ms

"flood, figurative of ׳יs judgement, עֹבֵר ׳שׁ Nahum 1:8, compare Daniel 9:26"

 

[covenantee]

Dear Covenantee,
That is not what scripture says concerning the church. I could show you many more teachings which all show that Satan kills the saints by causing them to fall away. Paul's conversion pattern, the parable of the Prodigal Son and the parable of the Wheat and the Tares, the parable of the 10 Virgins, the teaching of the Two Witnesses and the story of the woman taken in adultery all teach this truth for those who have "eyes that can see".

Here is another place which teaches it:

Mar 5:2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, 3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains: 4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him. 5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones. 6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him, 7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, what have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. 8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit. 9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, my name is LEGION; for we are many. 10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country. 11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. 12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. 13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand and were choked in the sea.

The man with the many unclean spirits represents the Elect just prior to their conversion. The stones the man uses to cut himself represents the Law of Moses (man’s work). The unclean spirit (Legion, who are many) represents the spirit of anti-Christ who has spiritually killed the man (he dwells among the tombs). When Christ comes to the man with the Latter Rain of the Spirit, Christ drives out the spirit of anti-Christ by the brightness of His appearing. This represents the judgment of the Beast and False Prophet. Before this happens, Legion asks to go into the great herd of Swine feeding upon the hill. The Herd of Swine represents called out believers who are also chosen (“2000” in the herd). When Legion enters the Swine, they run into the sea and are killed just as the possessed man was killed earlier.

Here is a one verse teaching on it:

Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

After a person receives the Early Rain, they will fall on the stone of Christ and be broken. This is what Isa 28:12 teaches. For the Elect, when Christ comes a second time to them with the Latter Rain, they will be ground to powder (their carnality) and be saved.

The Pathway to Salvation is through the apostate church and no one can avoid passing through it if they are going to be saved in this age. The Elect must "keep the sayings of the prophecy" (Rev 22:7).

The entire flock was devoured by the wolves and this includes the Elect. Satan must kill them because no prophet can avoid being killed in Jerusalem:

Luke 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

Under the Old Covenant, which is outward and physical, the Old Testament faithful were physically killed. Under the New Covenant, which is inward and spiritual, the Elect are spiritually killed.

The Elect must be spiritually killed by Satan in the streets of Jerusalem:

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Paul even said that coming of Christ and our gathering together to Him (occurs when the Latter Rain is given) will not come until the apostasy occurs. After Christ pours out the Latter Rain and heals the Elect believer's spiritual blindness, the Man of Sin will then be revealed to them and they will find that they are that Man of Sin (2Thes 2:1-5).

We all "live" by every word that comes from the mouth of God (Mat 4:4) This is referring to the Pathway to Salvation. God is not a respecter of persons; we all must travel the same pathway to salvation.

For the non-chosen believers who continue in the apostate church until they die, the Man of Sin will not be revealed to them nor will they see the Abomination of Desolation which causes their loss of salvation. That loss of salvation occurs because the apostate church teaches a "another gospel" which mixes "works" with "faith".

But after that false gospel has been preached to all the nations (thoughts and beliefs of the believer), the end will come:

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

The "gospel of the kingdom" is talking about Satan's false gospel which the apostate church follows. When it consumes an Elect believer, they are ready for Christ to "come again". When it does, the Elect believer will experience the "ends of the ages" and will be saved:

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

Don't think that you are somehow smarter or wiser than other believers to keep yourself from falling for the deceptions of Satan. And don't think that your supposed "free will ability" can help you either. We all must travel the same pathway to salvation and that pathway includes being made "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45) before we will be saved. The Elect must die in the streets of Jerusalem!

Joe

Dear Joe,

Sorry, but this is nothing more than a plethora of your own private interpretations, which have no basis or support in orthodox Christianity.

I do not subscribe to such.

Now, let's get back to the original issue, which is your denial of Christ's complete and perfect fulfillment of Daniel 9:24 at Calvary.

Daniel 9
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Luke 24
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Christ described His denialist disciples as fools. As a denialist yourself, would that description apply?

Christ revealed Himself in all the prophets. Does that include Daniel?

Christ revealed Himself in all the scriptures. Does that include the writings of Daniel?

Christ declared that all things must be fulfilled concerning Himself. Is Daniel 9:24 about "things concerning Himself"?

The answers to these questions, and to the fulfillment of Daniel 9:24, are self-evident.

 

[covenantee]

Help is needed?
How to create your first post.
Thank you.

Fastest and easiest is to find a post that you'd like to reply to, and just click "Reply" at the bottom right of that post.

But you did already create it.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Dear Joe,

Sorry, but this is nothing more than a plethora of your own private interpretations, which have no basis or support in orthodox Christianity.

I do not subscribe to such.

Now, let's get back to the original issue, which is your denial of Christ's complete and perfect fulfillment of Daniel 9:24 at Calvary.

Daniel 9
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Luke 24
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Christ described His denialist disciples as fools. As a denialist yourself, would that description apply?

Christ revealed himself in all the prophets. Does that include Daniel?

Christ declared that all things must be fulfilled concerning Himself. Is Daniel 9:24 "things concerning Himself"?

The answers to these questions, and to the fulfillment of Daniel 9:24, are self-evident.

Dear covenantee,
No doubt, Christ has fulfilled the prophecies which were written about His first coming. There are still many more prophecies that still needed to be fulfilled under the New Covenant and His second coming. Those include all the prophecies of the Day of the Lord when Christ will judge and save all mankind.

You are only seeing Christ in the flesh. Christ is now spirit and His prophesied spiritual work is still left to be completed. Only after His spiritual work is complete will Dan 9:24 be complete.

Joe

 

[covenantee]

Dear covenantee,
No doubt, Christ has fulfilled the prophecies which were written about His first coming. There are still many more prophecies that still needed to be fulfilled under the New Covenant and His second coming. Those include all the prophecies of the Day of the Lord when Christ will judge and save all mankind.

You are only seeing Christ in the flesh. Christ is now spirit and His prophesied spiritual work is still left to be completed. Only after His spiritual work is complete will Dan 9:24 be complete.

Joe

Dear Joe,

There is nothing in the Scriptures I've cited about "still need to be fulfilled".

There is only "fulfilled".

Christ did not remotely hint at "still need to be fulfilled".

He only declared "fulfilled".

 

[FaithWillDo]

Dear Joe,

There is nothing in the Scriptures I've cited about "still need to be fulfilled".

There is only "fulfilled".

Christ did not remotely hint at "still need to be fulfilled".

He only declared "fulfilled".

Dear covenantee,

Not fulfilled prophecies:

Isa 13:9 Behold, the Day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

These two prophecies are fulfilled by the spiritual work of Christ under the New Covenant. You are seeing Christ only in the flesh.

I can see no reason to continue this discussion with you since you have no ability to receive the truth of scripture.

Joe

 

[covenantee]

Dear covenantee,

Not fulfilled prophecies:

Isa 13:9 Behold, the Day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

These two prophecies are fulfilled by the spiritual work of Christ under the New Covenant. You are seeing Christ only in the flesh.

I can see no reason to continue this discussion with you since you have no ability to receive the truth of scripture.

Joe

Dear Joe,

I can see no reason to continue this discussion with you since you deny and reject recognized historical Christian orthodoxy.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Dear Joe,

I can see no reason to continue this discussion with you since you deny and reject recognized historical Christian orthodoxy.

Dear covenantee,
Truth only comes from God's Word. You should not be listening to the teachings of orthodox Christianity. They teach "another gospel" which is carnal and is based on the works of man.

Prv 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Joe

 

[covenantee]

Dear covenantee,
Truth only comes from God's Word. You should not be listening to the teachings of orthodox Christianity. They teach "another gospel" which is carnal and is based on the works of man.

Prv 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Joe

Dear Joe,

Truth does not come from modernist cultism which denies and rejects the ageless truths of God's Word, which He has invested in faithful and obedient defenders of His true faith to preserve through the centuries.

Galatians 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

 

[BarneyFife]

You are only seeing Christ in the flesh. Christ is now spirit

Declaring something with resolute arrogance does not make it so. Christ has not been described anywhere in Scripture as having gone through a transformation from flesh to spirit. The last reference we have to His state of being is, indeed, that of flesh, unless you believe one can thrust his hand into the side of a spirit and get sensory feedback.

The erroneous, convoluted amalgamation of soteriology and eschatology that is being advanced in the thrust of this thread is astounding.

In combining things that don't occupy the same theological space, they are both effectively cancelled out.

This is not an indictment of the proponent, but of the theory itself. So many verses are readily available to directly refute the myriad of mere anecdotal opinions which have no foundation in any kind of hermeneutical model that could be considered accepted by anything resembling what might constitute "God's seven thousand," that it's hard to imagine where to start challenging the enormous mass of conjecture.

The early and latter rain misapplication is particularly startling.

The latter rain is what matures the harvest (the end of the world) just before it is reaped (the Second coming of Jesus). So how can it represent conversion?

The early rain is that which causes the germination of the harvest (Pentecost and the early church). This is merely sensible and follows along with the agricultural parabolic motif which pervades the Bible. It requires no startling revelation or spiritual elitist vision to understand. This would be a much more cohesive interpretation of what is strangely being represented as a "spiritual" 2nd half of the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy, which has no foundation.

This is what always happens with folks who claim to have special light from God. When we hear the "God has shown me"-type claims, it's best to look for a train of fruits. Has any been offered in evidence? Is this elitist, schismatic message producing repentance, sorrow for sin, and reconciliation between man and God, and between man and his fellow man?

Unless we become as little children and seek the SIMPLE (not sensational) explanations that are common throughout Scripture, we cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven.

The prophecies foretelling God's revealed plans throughout the ages are so simple a child can (and should) understand them, so long as that child is not inclined to do wickedly, because the 12th chapter of Daniel is clear that the wicked shall NOT understand as the wise (being the opposite of the wicked in this context) SHALL understand. It's a perfectly logical construct from what we could presumably and/or loosely call "God's perspective."

The wicked simply aren't wise, and the meaning of "wicked," in the original tongues, or so I've been told, connotes a condition of being irregularly shaped, improper, or even confused or dysfunctional, none of which would describe a wise person.

And this would stand to reason for someone who struggles to get the big picture, so to speak, of the Bible or the Gospel. The scriptures are that which testifies of the personal Christ, not merely facts about the sum of the Bible's parts or that which piques our independent, individual interests.

Sophisticated, postmodern philosophies (even ones that are fashioned from the text of Scripture) are of no use to mankind, especially now more than any other time in history. People who are truly hungering and thirsting after righteousness have no use for a systematic theology that serves primarily to merely occupy their troubled hearts and minds. It must also heal.

What people need and, unbeknownst even to themselves, actually want (because of the measure of faith they are divinely dealt and the eternity God has placed in their hearts) is an audience with The Living Christ—an encounter that can permanently transform the experiences with, and views of, interpersonal relationships.

And these seeking ones won't settle for anything less, even if it looks like more.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Declaring something with resolute arrogance does not make it so. Christ has not been described anywhere in Scripture as having gone through a transformation from flesh to spirit. The last reference we have to His state of being is, indeed, that of flesh, unless you believe one can thrust his hand into the side of a spirit and get sensory feedback.

The erroneous, convoluted amalgamation of soteriology and eschatology that is being advanced in the thrust of this thread is astounding.

In combining things that don't occupy the same theological space, they are both effectively cancelled out.

This is not an indictment of the proponent, but of the theory itself. So many verses are readily available to directly refute the myriad of mere anecdotal opinions which have no foundation in any kind of hermeneutical model that could be considered accepted by anything resembling what might constitute "God's seven thousand," that it's hard to imagine where to start challenging the enormous mass of conjecture.

The early and latter rain misapplication is particularly startling.

The latter rain is what matures the harvest (the end of the world) just before it is reaped (the Second coming of Jesus). So how can it represent conversion?

The early rain is that which causes the germination of the harvest (Pentecost and the early church). This is merely sensible and follows along with the agricultural parabolic motif which pervades the Bible. It requires no startling revelation or spiritual elitist vision to understand. This would be a much more cohesive interpretation of what is strangely being represented as a "spiritual" 2nd half of the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy, which has no foundation.

This is what always happens with folks who claim to have special light from God. When we hear the "God has shown me"-type claims, it's best to look for a train of fruits. Has any been offered in evidence? Is this elitist, schismatic message producing repentance, sorrow for sin, and reconciliation between man and God, and between man and his fellow man?

Unless we become as little children and seek the SIMPLE (not sensational) explanations that are common throughout Scripture, we cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven.

The prophecies foretelling God's revealed plans throughout the ages are so simple a child can (and should) understand them, so long as that child is not inclined to do wickedly, because the 12th chapter of Daniel is clear that the wicked shall NOT understand as the wise (being the opposite of the wicked in this context) SHALL understand. It's a perfectly logical construct from what we could presumably and/or loosely call "God's perspective."

The wicked simply aren't wise, and the meaning of "wicked," in the original tongues, or so I've been told, connotes a condition of being irregularly shaped, improper, or even confused or dysfunctional, none of which would describe a wise person.

And this would stand to reason for someone who struggles to get the big picture, so to speak, of the Bible or the Gospel. The scriptures are that which testifies of the personal Christ, not merely facts about the sum of the Bible's parts or that which piques our independent, individual interests.

Sophisticated, postmodern philosophies (even ones that are fashioned from the text of Scripture) are of no use to mankind, especially now more than any other time in history. People who are truly hungering and thirsting after righteousness have no use for a systematic theology that serves primarily to merely occupy their troubled hearts and minds. It must also heal.

What people need and, unbeknownst even to themselves, actually want (because of the measure of faith they are divinely dealt and the eternity God has placed in their hearts) is an audience with The Living Christ—an encounter that can permanently transform the experiences with, and views of, interpersonal relationships.

And these seeking ones won't settle for anything less, even if it looks like more.

Dear BarneyFife,
Your comments are void of scriptural truth and come only from the reasoning of a carnal mind.

I won't discuss truth with those whose truth comes from outside of scripture.

Joe

 

[RLT63]

From the Hebrew:

7858 [e]
ḇaš·še·ṭep̄,
בַשֶּׁ֔טֶף
with a flood
Prep‑b, Art | N‑ms

"flood, figurative of ׳יs judgement, עֹבֵר ׳שׁ Nahum 1:8, compare Daniel 9:26"

Okay I understand your point of view and it’s a valid viewpoint. It differs from mine but we seem to agree on other things.

 

[RLT63]

Dear Covenantee,
That is not what scripture says concerning the church. I could show you many more teachings which all show that Satan kills the saints by causing them to fall away. Paul's conversion pattern, the parable of the Prodigal Son and the parable of the Wheat and the Tares, the parable of the 10 Virgins, the teaching of the Two Witnesses and the story of the woman taken in adultery all teach this truth for those who have "eyes that can see".

Here is another place which teaches it:

Mar 5:2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, 3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains: 4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him. 5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones. 6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him, 7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, what have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. 8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit. 9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, my name is LEGION; for we are many. 10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country. 11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. 12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. 13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand and were choked in the sea.

The man with the many unclean spirits represents the Elect just prior to their conversion. The stones the man uses to cut himself represents the Law of Moses (man’s work). The unclean spirit (Legion, who are many) represents the spirit of anti-Christ who has spiritually killed the man (he dwells among the tombs). When Christ comes to the man with the Latter Rain of the Spirit, Christ drives out the spirit of anti-Christ by the brightness of His appearing. This represents the judgment of the Beast and False Prophet. Before this happens, Legion asks to go into the great herd of Swine feeding upon the hill. The Herd of Swine represents called out believers who are also chosen (“2000” in the herd). When Legion enters the Swine, they run into the sea and are killed just as the possessed man was killed earlier.

Here is a one verse teaching on it:

Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

After a person receives the Early Rain, they will fall on the stone of Christ and be broken. This is what Isa 28:12 teaches. For the Elect, when Christ comes a second time to them with the Latter Rain, they will be ground to powder (their carnality) and be saved.

The Pathway to Salvation is through the apostate church and no one can avoid passing through it if they are going to be saved in this age. The Elect must "keep the sayings of the prophecy" (Rev 22:7).

The entire flock was devoured by the wolves and this includes the Elect. Satan must kill them because no prophet can avoid being killed in Jerusalem:

Luke 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

Under the Old Covenant, which is outward and physical, the Old Testament faithful were physically killed. Under the New Covenant, which is inward and spiritual, the Elect are spiritually killed.

The Elect must be spiritually killed by Satan in the streets of Jerusalem:

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Paul even said that coming of Christ and our gathering together to Him (occurs when the Latter Rain is given) will not come until the apostasy occurs. After Christ pours out the Latter Rain and heals the Elect believer's spiritual blindness, the Man of Sin will then be revealed to them and they will find that they are that Man of Sin (2Thes 2:1-5).

We all "live" by every word that comes from the mouth of God (Mat 4:4) This is referring to the Pathway to Salvation. God is not a respecter of persons; we all must travel the same pathway to salvation.

For the non-chosen believers who continue in the apostate church until they die, the Man of Sin will not be revealed to them nor will they see the Abomination of Desolation which causes their loss of salvation. That loss of salvation occurs because the apostate church teaches a "another gospel" which mixes "works" with "faith".

But after that false gospel has been preached to all the nations (thoughts and beliefs of the believer), the end will come:

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

The "gospel of the kingdom" is talking about Satan's false gospel which the apostate church follows. When it consumes an Elect believer, they are ready for Christ to "come again". When it does, the Elect believer will experience the "ends of the ages" and will be saved:

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

Don't think that you are somehow smarter or wiser than other believers to keep yourself from falling for the deceptions of Satan. And don't think that your supposed "free will ability" can help you either. We all must travel the same pathway to salvation and that pathway includes being made "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45) before we will be saved. The Elect must die in the streets of Jerusalem!

Joe

You’ve got some really strange beliefs and you take literal events symbolically. I don’t think I’ve ever known anyone who believes as you do.

 

[covenantee]

You’ve got some really strange beliefs and you take literal events symbolically. I don’t think I’ve ever known anyone who believes as you do.

That describes a cult. There are several hereabouts on this forum

 

[RLT63]

I would be interested in your understanding of this...
KJV Revelation 12:15-16
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

That would be John describing a vision he had. If you’re Protestant you probably believe the woman is Israel. If you’re Catholic you probably say it’s Mary.

 

[RLT63]

That describes a cult. There are several hereabouts on this forum

When I first joined someone said “Welcome to Cultianity Board “

 

[BarneyFife]

Dear BarneyFife,
Your comments are void of scriptural truth and come only from the reasoning of a carnal mind.

I won't discuss truth with those whose truth comes from outside of scripture.

Joe

.
That works out well for both of us, then, since you don't seem to exhibit any inclination toward discussion, in general—but rather, in favor of pontification. I wouldn't presume to read your mind, though, as you have so confidently done to mine (and pretty much everyone else's).

Proverbs 15:22 ​

Without counsel purposes are disappointed: but in the multitude of counsellors they are established.​

.

 

[BarneyFife]

That would be John describing a vision he had. If you’re Protestant you probably believe the woman is Israel. If you’re Catholic you probably say it’s Mary.

.
Unless you're a Protestant who is also a historicist. Then you see the woman as the church.

.

 

[BarneyFife]

Dear BarneyFife,
Your comments are void of scriptural truth and come only from the reasoning of a carnal mind.

I won't discuss truth with those whose truth comes from outside of scripture.

Joe

.
I didn't realize at first what a patently false accusation this is.

Not that I care to defend myself, but it might interest others to know how blinding arrogance and variance can be:

Let's try this again:

Declaring something with resolute arrogance does not make it so (2 Corinthians 12:20 - Concern for the Corinthians). Christ has not been described anywhere in Scripture as having gone through a transformation from flesh to spirit (Philippians 3:21 - Citizenship in Heaven). The last reference we have to His state of being is, indeed, that of flesh, unless you believe one can thrust his hand into the side of a spirit and get sensory feedback (John 20:25 - Jesus Appears to Thomas).

The erroneous, convoluted amalgamation of soteriology and eschatology that is being advanced in the thrust of this thread is astounding.

In combining things that don't occupy the same theological space, they are both effectively cancelled out (1 Timothy 4:16 - A Good Minister of Jesus Christ).

This is not an indictment of the proponent, but of the theory itself. So many verses are readily available to directly refute the myriad of mere anecdotal opinions which have no foundation in any kind of hermeneutical model that could be considered accepted by anything resembling what might constitute "God's seven thousand," that it's hard to imagine where to start challenging the enormous mass of conjecture.

The early and latter rain misapplication is particularly startling.

The latter rain is what matures the harvest (the end of the world—Matthew 13:39 - The Parable of the Weeds Explained) just before it is reaped (the Second coming of Jesus) (James 5:7 - Patience in Suffering). So how can it represent conversion?

The early rain is that which causes the germination of the harvest (Pentecost and the early church). This is merely sensible and follows along with the agricultural parabolic motif which pervades the Bible. It requires no startling revelation or spiritual elitist vision to understand. This would be a much more cohesive interpretation of what is strangely being represented as a "spiritual" 2nd half of the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy, which has no foundation.

This is what always happens with folks who claim to have special light from God. When we hear the "God has shown me"-type claims, it's best to look for a train of fruits (Matthew 7:17 Context: Even so, every good tree produces good fruit; but the corrupt tree produces evil fruit.). Has any been offered in evidence? Is this elitist, schismatic message producing repentance, sorrow for sin, and reconciliation between man and God, and between man and his fellow man?

Unless we become as little children and seek the SIMPLE (not sensational) explanations that are common throughout Scripture, we cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven (Matthew 18:3 - The Greatest in the Kingdom).

The prophecies foretelling God's revealed plans throughout the ages are so simple a child can (and should) understand them, so long as that child is not inclined to do wickedly, because the 12th chapter of Daniel is clear that the wicked shall NOT understand as the wise (being the opposite of the wicked in this context) SHALL understand (Daniel 12:10 - Michael's Deliverance and the End Times). It's a perfectly logical construct from what we could presumably and/or loosely call "God's perspective."

Well, I've lost interest.
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[RLT63]

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Unless you're a Protestant who is also a historicist. Then you see the woman as the church.

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Sorry I couldn’t get everyone in there