What is the one true Church?

[Grailhunter]

As I stated before - I destroyed your argument about the use of the word “Pope” in post #2226 with my “First Lady“ comparison . . .

You do know that they were speaking English in early America.....right.
Referring to Bathsheba as first lady would be wrong too.

Yes – manners and formatting are the two biggest gripes against men from those who have completely run OUT of ammunition.

And ALL this, coning from the KING of Denial . . .

Are you saying it would be wrong to expect manners from a Catholic?
I deny nothing, tell the truth.

 

[quietthinker]

Your comment sounds an awful lot along the same lines of when Mary poured the expensive perfumed oil on Jesus, and Judas Iscariot complained that it could have been sold and the money given to the poor.

See John 12:5...

“Why was this oil not sold for three hundred days’ wages* and given to the poor?”

The Catholic Church, remember, is the Body of Christ.

How does it sound the the same Augustine? I would have thought it no different to Jesus calling the religious leaders snakes or hypocrites.
I think your parallel is misplaced.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You do know that they were speaking English in early America.....right.
Referring to Bathsheba as first lady would be wrong too.

And YOU do know that EVERYTHING you just typed can be translated into another language - don't you??

That's how languages work, Einstein . . .

Are you saying it would be wrong to expect manners from a Catholic?
I deny nothing, tell the truth.

Ummmmm, ALL I’ve gotten from YOU is denial after denial and lie after lie in posts like #2112, #2,128, #2,130, #2,131, #2,142, #2,164, #2,148 and just about EVERY other one . . .

As for my manners - rebuking a LIAR is not "bad manners".

 

[BreadOfLife]

How does it sound the the same Augustine? I would have thought it no different to Jesus calling the religious leaders snakes or hypocrites.
I think your parallel is misplaced.

I'd say that by your condemnation of so-called "opulence" in Catholic structures and presentation - Augustin56's comparison was right on the money.

Just as Solomon did with the Temple - we give our very best to God.
And just as God was pleased with Solomon's efforts - He is pleased with His Church's efforts.

 

[Jim B]

Your comment sounds an awful lot along the same lines of when Mary poured the expensive perfumed oil on Jesus, and Judas Iscariot complained that it could have been sold and the money given to the poor.

See John 12:5...

“Why was this oil not sold for three hundred days’ wages* and given to the poor?”

The Catholic Church, remember, is the Body of Christ.

The Catholic church is not the body of Christ. It is one denomination, a part of the body of Christ.

 

[Jim B]

hey jim b,

You do know WHY the Crusades happened? Don't you?

Of course I do. The Catholic denomination wanted to take back the holy land from the infidels by waging wars.

 

[quietthinker]

I'd say that by your condemnation of so-called "opulence" in Catholic structures and presentation - Augustin56's comparison was right on the money.

Just as Solomon did with the Temple - we give our very best to God.
And just as God was pleased with Solomon's efforts - He is pleased with His Church's efforts.

So you're saying that opulence is good when it comes to display?......and God is pleased by the more one can display?

 

[Grailhunter]

And YOU do know that EVERYTHING you just typed can be translated into another language - don't you??

Now they can.
But a good part of them did not exist until the English language came along.

 

[BreadOfLife]

So you're saying that opulence is good when it comes to display?......and God is pleased by the more one can display?

No - I am saying that we offer our very BEST to God - as Solomon did.
Do you bring wood, hay and stubble before the Lord - or do your bring gold and silver?

 

[amigo de christo]

Tell the Pope that.....


LOL the game was over the first time I corrected you.

speaking of telling the pope something , my advice is dont follow this man . And if anyone is sitting in a church
that has removed true salvation and preaches this other stuff , my advice is Flee .
This is so false what this man is doing . And he aint alone either . He aint alone in this .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Now they can.
But a good part of them did not exist until the English language came along.

There were MANY languages in existence before English came along.
Ever heard of the Tower of Babel? Ever read the day of Pentecost in Acts 2?

You are a victim of BAD education and BAD theology . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

speaking of telling the pope something , my advice is dont follow this man . And if anyone is sitting in a church
that has removed true salvation and preaches this other stuff , my advice is Flee .
This is so false what this man is doing . And he aint alone either . He aint alone in this .

And MY advice to YOU is:
Do your homework.

So far, you've not only gotten just about everything WRONG - you haven't been able to answer a SINGLE question I've asked of you . . .

 

[Grailhunter]

There were MANY languages in existence before English came along.
Ever heard of the Tower of Babel? Ever read the day of Pentecost in Acts 2?

You are a victim of BAD education and BAD theology . . .

Yes there was......but not too many English words in them.
It appears that you have trouble comprehending time periods and how history moves through them.
Because you keep making one mistake after another.

 

[quietthinker]

No - I am saying that we offer our very BEST to God - as Solomon did.
Do you bring wood, hay and stubble before the Lord - or do your bring gold and silver?

And what is best? Do you really think God is impressed by large Cathedrals decked with costly arrays?

The whore of Babylon in Revelation 17 is described as arrayed opulently. I suppose she was displaying her best.

....and by the way, I have been to and seen the large Cathedrals in various Sth American countries.....and they are opulent......while the population languishes in poverty.......while beggars frequent their steps.
Do you think these structures are financed by the generosity of the Vatican?.....which gets it funds from where? You know as well as I do that the people are fleeced under the pretext of bringing their best to God or some other rort.

Now what sort of manipulation is dished out to the common folk to achieve these results......even while they languish?

 

[Brakelite]

Doesn’t matter to ME if it means Ober-seer or Over-watcher.

MY point all along is that MANT if not MOST nouns have multiple words to represent them. I have presented SEVERL examples:
Couch/Sofa
Carpet/Rug
Groceries/Foodstuffs
Things/Objects

It is NO different with Episkopos and Overseer/Bishop.
YOUR problem – besides being wrong – is that your abject ignorance of hos languages work.

By recognizing the relation between over watch and over see, I think I demonstrated write well how languages work. What you stubbornly refuse to recognize is there is some intellectual integrity outside of your own narrow prejudicial perceptions and deceptive reasoning. Your say above you doesn't matter what word is used, yet here...

Uhhhhhh - NOT exactly.

The literal translation of Episkopos means "Over-Watcher" - epi- "over" (see epi-) + skopos "one that watches".

As I educated you earlier - MANY nouns (and verbs) have multiple words for the SAME THING.
Couch/Sofa
Carpet/Rug
Groceries/Foodstuffs
Things/Objects

YOUR game of limiting languages as they pertain to translations only works on the ignorant . . .


And I've proves this WRONG on multiple occasions with actual historical documentation. that the Catholic Church existed from the FIRST century.

YOU, on the other hand have only presented your own pathetic opinions . . .

You spilt hairs and stained a gnat as a method of rebuffing... Calling yourself an educator and the other pathetic...."proving him wrong"... Yet much of what he was saying...

And it gets more involved than that.
The Greek word can be translated in the English language accurately as overseer.....It is an English word, do you see it. The position of overseer came to be Called Bishop in the Middle Ages....which is fine.....but you cannot say they new that term or position in the early church because if you said all these Catholic terms to them they would look at you like you had three heads......those words were not in the Greek language nor understood by the people of the time period. And this whole effort to do this is to deceive people into thinking that the Catholic Church existed before 321 AD.

Could be discussed without having to invent arguments destined to defeat the opposition.
You are so intent on winning, you ignore what others are actually saying. You are so focused on tearing others down, you are blind to the good things they are trying to share with you. Even regarding your own behavior. It has been the observation of many over the years that your belligerent win at all costs attitude does not reflect well on your church, even less so on Him whom you claim to represent. But there is no humility. Not one skerrick of recognition that maybe, just maybe, even just a little bit, a possibility that others are justified in their observations and perhaps you might want to tone down your rhetoric in order to make a better impact and have a greater influence on your readers. Perhaps.

 

[Augustin56]

The Catholic church is not the body of Christ. It is one denomination, a part of the body of Christ.

The Catholic Church is not a "denomination," strictly speaking. The word "denomination" infers that it comes "from" something else. It is the original Church founded by Christ. And it's not even a close call.

 

[Grailhunter]

The Catholic Church is not a "denomination," strictly speaking. The word "denomination" infers that it comes "from" something else. It is the original Church founded by Christ. And it's not even a close call.

Ya a lot times people refer to the varies churches as denominations....what cha going to call them?......a special designation.
As far as Christ founding the Catholic Church....we would not be in this thread if he founded a Church by name....giving His stamp of approval... wouldn't that make things nice. As it is even though the Coptic Church is the oldest Christian church, that does not give it prominence over other churches or denominations or whatever you want to call them.

Christianity was never about a church and God.....it about a person....everyone of us and God with nothing between us and God.

 

[Augustin56]

Ya a lot times people refer to the varies churches as denominations....what cha going to call them?......a special designation.
As far as Christ founding the Catholic Church....we would not be in this thread if he founded a Church by name....giving His stamp of approval... wouldn't that make things nice. As it is even though the Coptic Church is the oldest Christian church, that does not give it prominence over other churches or denominations or whatever you want to call them.

Christianity was never about a church and God.....it about a person....everyone of us and God with nothing between us and God.

When a baby is born, sometimes the parents don't name it for a few days. When the baby is named, does it change? Or is it just a label assigned to the person that the baby is?

Similary, the Catholic Church was and is the one Church founded by Christ. Early on, this one Church, founded by Christ, was named the Catholic Church. Read St. Ignatius of Antioch's letter to the Smyrnaean's, around 107 A.D., in which he referred to the "Catholic Church" not as if he were coining the term, but in a manner in which he expected them to fully understand.

It says in paragraph 8, "Where the bishop is present, there let the congregation gather, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."

See the entire letter here: https://www.orderofstignatius.org/files/Letters/Ignatius_to_Smyrnaeans.pdf

The Coptics were a group in Egypt who were part of the Catholic Church, believing all the same things, etc. Around 451 A.D., the Coptics divided and some left the Catholic Church. They came back a few centuries later, then some left again. Some Coptics today are Orthodox and some are in full communion with the Catholic Church.

So, from your post, you think Jesus Christ was in error founding a Church (Matt. 1:18-19). And you know better than He did, right? In your opinion, there is no point to having a Church or authority or anything. You can be your own Pope and decide your own doctrines. Right?

 

[Grailhunter]

Similary, the Catholic Church was and is the one Church founded by Christ. Early on, this one Church, founded by Christ, was named the Catholic Church. Read St. Ignatius of Antioch's letter to the Smyrnaean's, around 107 A.D., in which he referred to the "Catholic Church" not as if he were coining the term, but in a manner in which he expected them to fully understand.

The concept of Christianity being universal came about early when salvation was opened up....offered to the world.
Then there was nothing wrong with a Church naming itself after that concept.
But when they try to get people to believe that the Church is as old as when the concept was first mentioned.....it is a scam....a lie.

 

[Jim B]

When a baby is born, sometimes the parents don't name it for a few days. When the baby is named, does it change? Or is it just a label assigned to the person that the baby is?

Similary, the Catholic Church was and is the one Church founded by Christ. Early on, this one Church, founded by Christ, was named the Catholic Church. Read St. Ignatius of Antioch's letter to the Smyrnaean's, around 107 A.D., in which he referred to the "Catholic Church" not as if he were coining the term, but in a manner in which he expected them to fully understand.

It says in paragraph 8, "Where the bishop is present, there let the congregation gather, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."

See the entire letter here: https://www.orderofstignatius.org/files/Letters/Ignatius_to_Smyrnaeans.pdf

The Coptics were a group in Egypt who were part of the Catholic Church, believing all the same things, etc. Around 451 A.D., the Coptics divided and some left the Catholic Church. They came back a few centuries later, then some left again. Some Coptics today are Orthodox and some are in full communion with the Catholic Church.

So, from your post, you think Jesus Christ was in error founding a Church (Matt. 1:18-19). And you know better than He did, right? In your opinion, there is no point to having a Church or authority or anything. You can be your own Pope and decide your own doctrines. Right?

Why do you keep repeating the same lie? The Catholic Church was not founded by Christ. Again, there is no mention of the Catholic church (which is actually a denomination) in the Bible. I don't know who named your denomination, but it was not Jesus or any of the apostles or other disciples of Jesus. Your claim is fiction!

And clearly you don't mean Matthew 1:18-19, which reads "Now the birth of Jesus Christ happened this way. While his mother Mary was engaged to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant through the Holy Spirit. Because Joseph, her husband to be, was a righteous man, and because he did not want to disgrace her, he intended to divorce her privately."

You depend on a man -- the (unScriptural) Pope -- instead of the Trinity: the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit! That explains your erroneous beliefs! All believers should be guided by them!!!

What did Jesus say? "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. For he will not speak on his own authority, but will speak whatever he hears, and will tell you what is to come." John 16:13

Notice that there is no mention of a Pope or any other clergy here. It clearly says that believers will be given the Holy Spirit directly from God the Father and HE will guide us into all truth. If you don't believe Scripture and instead believe your denomination's elected leaders, perhaps that is the root of your problem.