Reasons Jews Reject Jesus

[Johann]

The man actually thinks he knows torah . He believes he knows moses and the prophets .
But i know He does NOT . Cause the law and the prophets , moses himself SPOKE OF CHRIST .
If he hears not the law he will not be convinced though one even rose from the dead .
The law is spiritual and it does point to Christ . Point to Christ till the last breath my friend . The LORD is our hope
and our salvation . Praise be to the glorious Lord .

Amen my brother-time has been shortened and we are to redeem the little time we have-keep on preaching CHRIST JESUS and HIM crucified and resurrected!
Johann

 

[Matthias]

Bs"d

You put your hope on JC.

I put my hope on the one and only true God Y-H-W-H who is one.

"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever."
Micah 4:5

Jesus himself put his hope in Y-H-W-H, the one and only true God: his Father and our Father, his God and our God. There is no other.

 

[Johann]

Jesus himself put his hope in Y-H-W-H: his Father and my Father, his God and my God.

Bereshis (in the Beginning) was the Dvar Hashem [YESHAYAH 55:11; BERESHIS 1:1], and the Dvar Hashem was agav (along with) Hashem [MISHLE 8:30; 30:4], and the Dvar Hashem was nothing less, by nature, than Elohim! [Psa 56:11(10); Yn 17:5; Rev. 19:13]
Joh 1:2 Bereshis (in the Beginning) this Dvar Hashem was with Hashem [Prov 8:30].
Joh 1:3 All things through him came to be, and without him came to be not one thing which came into being. [Ps 33:6,9; Prov 30:4]
Joh 1:4 In him was Chayyim (Life) and the Chayyim (Life) was the Ohr (Light) of Bnei Adam. [TEHILLIM 36:10 (9)]

Scriptures says otherwise-and you have a problem with Jesus in His humanity.

 

[Matthias]

Bereshis (in the Beginning) was the Dvar Hashem [YESHAYAH 55:11; BERESHIS 1:1], and the Dvar Hashem was agav (along with) Hashem [MISHLE 8:30; 30:4], and the Dvar Hashem was nothing less, by nature, than Elohim! [Psa 56:11(10); Yn 17:5; Rev. 19:13]
Joh 1:2 Bereshis (in the Beginning) this Dvar Hashem was with Hashem [Prov 8:30].
Joh 1:3 All things through him came to be, and without him came to be not one thing which came into being. [Ps 33:6,9; Prov 30:4]
Joh 1:4 In him was Chayyim (Life) and the Chayyim (Life) was the Ohr (Light) of Bnei Adam. [TEHILLIM 36:10 (9)]

Scriptures says otherwise-and you have a problem with Jesus in His humanity.

The scripture is right. It is your understanding and explanation of scripture which produces a deity which Jesus didn’t, doesn’t, and never will call his God and our God.

There are no Gods of Israel. There is only the one God of Israel, and he is the Father.

You have a major problem with Jesus of Nazareth. You have and follow a deity which he himself doesn’t.

 

[Eliyahu613]

1. Does the title "My Servant" refer to the Jews or the Messiah?

Bs"d

NOWHERE in Isaiah, NOWHERE in the whole Hebrew Bible is the messiah ever referred to as "the servant of God".

Isaiah 41:8: “But thou , Israel art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend. Thou who I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thou from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee: Thou art my servant, I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away.”

Isaiah 44:1-2; “Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant, and Israel who I have chosen. Thus said the Lord that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; fear not O Jacob my servant, and thou Jesurun whom I have chosen.”


Isaiah 44:21; “Remember these, O Jacob and Israel, for thou art my servant. I have formed thee, thou art my servant; O Israel thou shalt not be forgotten of me


Isaiah 45:4; “For Jacob, my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name.”


Isaiah 48:20; “The lord hath redeemed his servant Jacob.”


Isaiah 49:3; “And said unto me: Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.”

The servant that Isaiah is talking about is the people of Israel.​

2. Why are the numerous references to the Gentiles' inclusion so significant in this passage?

There are no references to Gentiles in Isaiah 53.

3. Why did God choose the Jews?

Because they are the descendants of Abraham who was chosen by God.

Abraham was chosen by God because:

"And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”
Gen 26:4-5

4. Why did the Servant suffer?

The servant, Israel, suffered because Israel had sinned.

5. Why was God pleased to crush Him?

Because the punishment is the cure. Through our own suffering our sins are erased. Israel suffering for the sins of Israel got forgiveness of sin.

6. What does Isa. 53:6 say about sin?

"All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all."

All of Israel had sinned, and God laid upon him = the servant = Israel the punishment for sin.

Israel was punished for the sins of Israel, as we see through the whole Tanach.

7. Why has this passage been so influential on the church?

Because the concept of a suffering and dying messiah doesn't exist in the Hebrew Bible, and Isaiah 53 was the closest the church could get to it.

So-@Elijahu613--former 7th Day Adventist-can you honestly tell me this passage in Isaiah 53 is referring to Isarael-or Yeshua.

Read the answer here: Isaiah 53

 

[Matthias]

Bereshis (in the Beginning) was the Dvar Hashem [YESHAYAH 55:11; BERESHIS 1:1], and the Dvar Hashem was agav (along with) Hashem [MISHLE 8:30; 30:4], and the Dvar Hashem was nothing less, by nature, than Elohim! [Psa 56:11(10); Yn 17:5; Rev. 19:13]
Joh 1:2 Bereshis (in the Beginning) this Dvar Hashem was with Hashem [Prov 8:30].
Joh 1:3 All things through him came to be, and without him came to be not one thing which came into being. [Ps 33:6,9; Prov 30:4]
Joh 1:4 In him was Chayyim (Life) and the Chayyim (Life) was the Ohr (Light) of Bnei Adam. [TEHILLIM 36:10 (9)]

Scriptures says otherwise-and you have a problem with Jesus in His humanity.

You’re listening to Shamoun, not Jesus.

You’re directing people to a deity which Jesus doesn’t.

 

[Johann]

The scripture is right. It is your understanding and explanation of scripture which produces a deity which Jesus didn’t, doesn’t, and never will call his God and our God.

Where was Christ before He became something He was not before?
Who is the rock in the OT?

My understanding is not beclouded-since you are in agreement with the Orthodox Eliyahu.
Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach Yehoshua,
Php 2:6 Who, though existing in the demut of the mode of being of Elohim [His etzem or essential nature, Yn 1:1-2; 17:5], nevertheless Moshiach did not regard being equal with G-d as a thing to be seized [BERESHIS 3:5],
Php 2:7 But poured out and emptied himself [2C 8:9], taking the demut of the mode of being of an eved [YESHAYAH 52:13- 53:12 [T.N. see the AVDI TZADDIK TZEMACH DOVID MOSHIACH YIRMEYAH 23:5; ZECHARIAH 3:8], and was born in the likeness of Bnei Adam [Yn 1:14; Ro 8:3; MJ 2:14-17], and having been found in appearance as an Adam,
Php 2:8 Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach humbled himself and took the path of shiflut (lowliness), unto mishma'at (obedience 2:12) [cf. BERESHIS 3:17] even unto death [Yn 10:17; MJ 5:8; 12:2], and that, a death on HaEtz [the Tree, DEVARIM 21:23; 27:26; Ga 3:13; Pp 3:18].
Php 2:9 Therefore, also Hashem exalted [YESHAYAH 52:13; 53:12; DANIEL 9:26; 7:14; Ac 2:33; MJ 1:3] Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach, and gave to him haShem [Ep 1:21; MJ 1:4] above every name,
Php 2:10 That at haShem of Yehoshua, KOL BERECH (every knee YESHAYAH 45:23) will bow, of beings b'Shomayim and ba'Aretz and mitachat laAretz (in the world below),
Php 2:11 And KOL LASHON (every tongue YESHAYAH 45:23) shall make hoda'ah (confession) with an Ani Ma'amin that is an open and public admission that Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach Yehoshua (Yeshua) is Adoneinu, to the kavod of Elohim Avinu.


Rom_9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

1Co_10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

1Pe_2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

And the rock was Christ (hē petra de ēn ho Christos). He definitely states here in symbolic form the preexistence of Christ. But surely “we must not disgrace Paul by making him say that the pre-incarnate Christ followed the march of Israel in the shape of a lump of rock” (Hofmann).

did: Exo_17:6; Num_20:11; Psa_78:15, Psa_78:20, Psa_105:41; Isa_43:20, Isa_48:21; Joh_4:10, Joh_4:14, Joh_7:37; Rev_22:17
followed them: or, went with them, Deu_9:21
that Rock: 1Co_11:24-25; Gen_40:12, Gen_41:26; Eze_5:4-5; Dan_2:38, Dan_7:17; Mat_13:38-39; Mat_26:26-28; Gal_4:25; Col_2:17; Heb_10:1

Who was/is the pre-incarnate Christ-BEFORE He became in the demut of man?

 

[Johann]

You’re listening to Shamoun, not Jesus.

Refute Sam Shamoun, if you can-who is Jesus to you? A created being?
Not worthy to be worshipped?

 

[Johann]

You’re directing people to a deity which Jesus doesn’t.

--and you are directing people to Judaism-which do not have a Jesus, no death and resurrection, not virgin born-yes?

 

[Matthias]

Where was Christ before He became something He was not before?
Who is the rock in the OT?

My understanding is not beclouded-since you are in agreement with the Orthodox Eliyahu.
Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach Yehoshua,
Php 2:6 Who, though existing in the demut of the mode of being of Elohim [His etzem or essential nature, Yn 1:1-2; 17:5], nevertheless Moshiach did not regard being equal with G-d as a thing to be seized [BERESHIS 3:5],
Php 2:7 But poured out and emptied himself [2C 8:9], taking the demut of the mode of being of an eved [YESHAYAH 52:13- 53:12 [T.N. see the AVDI TZADDIK TZEMACH DOVID MOSHIACH YIRMEYAH 23:5; ZECHARIAH 3:8], and was born in the likeness of Bnei Adam [Yn 1:14; Ro 8:3; MJ 2:14-17], and having been found in appearance as an Adam,
Php 2:8 Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach humbled himself and took the path of shiflut (lowliness), unto mishma'at (obedience 2:12) [cf. BERESHIS 3:17] even unto death [Yn 10:17; MJ 5:8; 12:2], and that, a death on HaEtz [the Tree, DEVARIM 21:23; 27:26; Ga 3:13; Pp 3:18].
Php 2:9 Therefore, also Hashem exalted [YESHAYAH 52:13; 53:12; DANIEL 9:26; 7:14; Ac 2:33; MJ 1:3] Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach, and gave to him haShem [Ep 1:21; MJ 1:4] above every name,
Php 2:10 That at haShem of Yehoshua, KOL BERECH (every knee YESHAYAH 45:23) will bow, of beings b'Shomayim and ba'Aretz and mitachat laAretz (in the world below),
Php 2:11 And KOL LASHON (every tongue YESHAYAH 45:23) shall make hoda'ah (confession) with an Ani Ma'amin that is an open and public admission that Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach Yehoshua (Yeshua) is Adoneinu, to the kavod of Elohim Avinu.


Rom_9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

1Co_10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

1Pe_2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

And the rock was Christ (hē petra de ēn ho Christos). He definitely states here in symbolic form the preexistence of Christ. But surely “we must not disgrace Paul by making him say that the pre-incarnate Christ followed the march of Israel in the shape of a lump of rock” (Hofmann).

did: Exo_17:6; Num_20:11; Psa_78:15, Psa_78:20, Psa_105:41; Isa_43:20, Isa_48:21; Joh_4:10, Joh_4:14, Joh_7:37; Rev_22:17
followed them: or, went with them, Deu_9:21
that Rock: 1Co_11:24-25; Gen_40:12, Gen_41:26; Eze_5:4-5; Dan_2:38, Dan_7:17; Mat_13:38-39; Mat_26:26-28; Gal_4:25; Col_2:17; Heb_10:1

Who was/is the pre-incarnate Christ-BEFORE He became in the demut of man?

Paul is using Typology.

 

[Johann]

Paul is using Typology.

Who is Christ Jesus to you-a created being-not worthy to be worshipped?

Yes, or no?

In Kabbalah the four meanings of the biblical texts are literal, allusive, allegorical, and mystical.

Peshat, the plain (simple) or literal reading;
Remez, the allegorical reading through text's hint or allusion.
Derash, the metaphorical reading through a (rabbinic sermon's) comparison/illustration (midrash)

 

[Matthias]

Refute Sam Shamoun, if you can

The refutation of Shamoun is Jesus of Nazareth.

-who is Jesus to you?

Jesus is the son of man, the messiah; promised, raised up and sent into the world by his God and Mine.

A created being?

To be begotten is to be created.

Not worthy to be worshipped?

I worship both God and the messianic king. For reference, see 1 Chronicles 29:20.

 

[Johann]

Paul is using Typology.

You are deflecting-who is Christ Jesus-a created being?

 

[Matthias]

Who is Christ Jesus to you-a created being-not worthy to be worshipped?

Yes, or no?

In Kabbalah the four meanings of the biblical texts are literal, allusive, allegorical, and mystical.

Peshat, the plain (simple) or literal reading;
Remez, the allegorical reading through text's hint or allusion.
Derash, the metaphorical reading through a (rabbinic sermon's) comparison/illustration (midrash)

The Kabbalah is Jewish mysticism.

 

[Matthias]

You are deflecting-who is Christ Jesus-a created being?

I’m not deflecting. Christ Jesus is a begotten / created being; begotten / created by His God and my God, by his Father and my Father.

 

[Johann]

To be begotten is to be created.

So your belief is, like the JW's-Christ Jesus is a created being?

 

[Matthias]

So your belief is, like the JW's-Christ Jesus is a created being?

My belief is not like the belief of the JW’s. They believe in literal preexistence (as do you); I believe in non-literal preexistence.

 

[Johann]

The Kabbalah is Jewish mysticism.

I'm not in kabbalah, your 7th Day Adventist turning to Orthodox Judaism and recanting Jesus's existence, death and resurrection, virgin born-is into this.

So if I read you correctly-you believe Christ Jesus did not pre-exist-but was a created being, right? @Matthias

 

[Matthias]

--and you are directing people to Judaism-which do not have a Jesus, no death and resurrection, not virgin born-yes?

No. I’m directing people to a Jew, Jesus of Nazareth.

 

[Matthias]

I'm not in kabbalah, your 7th Day Adventist turning to Orthodox Judaism and recanting Jesus's existence, death and resurrection, virgin born-is into this.

Then neither you nor I am into kabbalah. The two of us can set it aside in our conversation.

So if I read you correctly-you believe Christ Jesus did not pre-exist-but was a created being, right? @Matthias

I believe Christ Jesus preexisted in the logos of his God and mine. The technical term for it is notional preexistence, also called ideal preexistence.