Entire Sanctification = "In Christ"

[Randy Kluth]

How do you know that the Translator is telling you the truth.
Do you know them?
Do you know their Theology?

I can get 20 Lexicons, by 20 Greek Text Translators and each will have a different Translation of the K.Greek.

Which of the 20 is right?

Moral of the Story.
Use the BIBLE. but not the NIV., and a few others.

I'm humble and honest enough to admit that my Grammar is a bit flaky, as is my knowledge of the Greek. But yes, I've used resources for Bible Study for many years, and to tell the truth, I've Bible studied since I was able to walk.
Well, maybe a little later than that!

 

[Ritajanice]

These are passive voice, "the one being made righteous, let him be being made righteous still, the one being made holy, let him be being made holy still". It's being done to them.

Yes, we are in the righteousness of Christ ,we aren’t in our own righteousness, we are being made Holy, through the power of the Holy Spirit.who indwells our spirit/ heart.....being made into the image of Jesus, which is the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit...my thoughts.

We must be born again, then we are in the righteousness of Christ.....we must be birthed in the Spirit to receive that righteousness....obviously there is much more to it than that, before we are birthed in the Spirit, being drawn to Jesus, Godly sorrow, repentance,etc,etc......God was watching me that evening when I was pouring my heart out, unbeknown to me.....then by his grace, mercy and Love birthed me in the Spirit.

Hebrews 4:12​

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New International Version​

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12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

I am in the righteousness of Christ, which in other words I am right with him/ God...100%know that,when I was birthed........but, you must be born again to be in God’s righteousness ..this is my testimony...and also spoken in text, to Glorify God!....All Glory belongs to God....

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◄ 2 Corinthians 5:21 ►

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Context Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. New Living Translation For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ. English Standard Version For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. Edit to add, I am not a teacher, this that I have text, was relayed from the Holy Spirit to my mind...and I believe I was to share it...my thoughts, opinion and belief.

 

[Johann]

No offense.
But, i need you to clarify something, as i can't understand what you are trying to say.

You keep talking about "imperiatives'
And what i hear.........and correct me if im wrong....but are you teaching..>"that you can lose your salvation, unless you keep it by ...whatever your "Imperative" happens to be, that is some type of work, self effort, etc"?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

These are my go to passages that a believer, once sealed, can NEVER be unsealed

ἐσφραγίσθητε
Transliteration: esphragisthēte
Morphology: V-AIP-2P
Verb - Aorist Indicative Passive - 2nd Person Plural
Strong's no.: G4972 (σφραγίζω)
Meaning: To seal, set a seal upon.

2. An Imperative is a military command to be promptly OBEYED, no questions asked.

In Scripture, in the Pauline epistles you will find over 1000 Imperatives brother-that the believer needs to OBEY.

Guess you will call that "works salvation"

Just one question.
Do you believe that the believer needs to persevere?

 

[Johann]

Let me read Rev 22.11 as it is translated in my Greek/English Interlinear:

..and the righteous [one] righteousness let him do still, and the holy [one] let him be hallowed still."

It *doesn't matter* that the "righteousness" and the "hallowed" are passive conditions brought upon the "righteous" and the "holy." The context dictates that the "righteous" and the "holy" "do righteousness still" and "be hallowed still."

It is an imperative, implying that cooperation is needed to remain in that state continually. It is not a given--it is not a truism. It is not self-evident that the righteous will continue to be righteous or that the holy will continue to be holy. It is imperative that the holy strive to continue to be holy. That is how I read it--the context rules.

In other words-the need for perseverance, correct?

 

[Ritajanice]

A born again imo/ belief ,will always keep persevering ,because they are in the Spirit, they have been birthed in the Spirit, therefore the Holy Spirit keeps us persevering, that is my belief, I can do nothing without the Holy Spirit....

I look to God and ask him to help me persevere, I can’t do anything in my own strength...it must be in God’s strength...

I have that living relationship with God Through the Holy Spirit....why, because he indwells my Spirit....and he birthed me in the Spirit...in Jesus Name.....Amen!

 

[Behold]

Good.

I am *not* dodging your question.

Why do you bring the Mods into this? Why do you falsely indicate I've refused to answer your questions?

Very good.
See, you can answer it.
I shouldn't have to ask you 6 times.....thats true, but at least you told us.
Episkopos wont.
And, its good for us all to be exposed., as the LIGHT is going to find us., and reveal us.
As for me, i have so many Threads, and so many Posts.....im incredibly transparent.
Ive nothing to hide here.

 

[Behold]

If we truly receive the Gift, we act upon that Gift as it is, inasmuch as it requires us to do something.

The "Gift of Salvation" does not require that you "do something" or you lose the Gift.
Right there, is the mind of the HERETIC.
So, i'll keep noticing that you keep implying that Salvation is to be kept by you, based on Works.
You keep treading that line with your "Do'ism" because you keep attaching Works to the "Gift", so it it sounds as if you are saying that The GIFT is started by God and you work to keep it, to keep from losing it.

 

[Behold]

Just one question.
Do you believe that the believer needs to persevere?

"Persevere" to keep from losing your Salvation"?

"Persevere" to keep from going to Hell after you are born again?

In other word, to do works to try not to lose your Salvation?

Is that what you are asking me?

 

[Johann]

"Persevere" to keep from losing your Salvation"?

"Persevere" to keep from going to Hell after you are born again?

In other word, to do works to try not to lose your Salvation?

Is that what you are asking me?

No, that's not what I'm asking-I think by now you should know me better brother. And I don't want to "flood" your thread.

hypomonē
32x: patient endurance, 2Co_12:12; Col_1:11; patient awaiting, Luk_21:19; a patient frame of mind, patience, Rom_5:3-4; Rom_15:4-5; Jas_1:3; perseverance, Rom_2:7; endurance in adherence to an object, 1Th_1:3; 2Th_3:5; Rev_1:9; ἐν ὑπομονῇ and δι’ ὑπομονῆς, constantly, perseveringly, Luk_8:15; Rom_8:25; Heb_12:1; an enduring of affliction, etc., the act of suffering, undergoing, etc., 2Co_1:6; 2Co_6:4.

This is what I'm talking about-

Romans 5:3-4
And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope;

James 1:12

Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

2 Thessalonians 3:13

But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary of doing good.

Ephesians 6:18

With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints,

Galatians 6:9

Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary.

2 Peter 1:5-6
Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness,

2 Timothy 2:12

If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He also will deny us;

1 Corinthians 13:7

bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

2 Timothy 1:13-14
Retain the standard of sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. Guard, through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, the treasure which has been entrusted to you.

Colossians 1:9

For this reason also, since the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding,

Hebrews 10:36

For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.

Acts 20:19

serving the Lord with all humility and with tears and with trials which came upon me through the plots of the Jews;

Psalm 16:8

I have set the Lord continually before me;
Because He is at my right hand, I will not be shaken.

Philippians 3:14

I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

1 Timothy 6:12

Fight the good fight of faith; take hold of the eternal life to which you were called, and you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

Hebrews 12:1-2
Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Romans 12:12

rejoicing in hope, persevering in tribulation, devoted to prayer,

Revelation 3:11

I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown.

Shalom achi/brother.

 

[Ritajanice]

How does God help us to persevere?


God told Paul that His grace is sufficient for anything he might have to persevere through. God does not always save us from hard times, but He will always be with us through hard times

 

[Johann]

How does God help us to persevere?


God told Paul that His grace is sufficient for anything he might have to persevere through. God does not always save us from hard times, but He will always be with us through hard times

Correct. See #749

 

[Behold]

No, that's not what I'm asking-I think by now you should know me better brother. And I don't want to "flood" your thread.

Answer :

We are to "Carry our Cross"...>"die daily"....>"be obedient". "mortify our member"... "present our body a living sacrifice'.... "Study to show yourself approved to God'..... "finish our Course".

Every believer, ever day, should be ready to :

1.) Preach, or share the word with unbelievers.

2.) Pray.

3.) Die for your faith.

 

[Johann]

Answer :

We are to "Carry our Cross"...>"die daily"....>"be obedient". "mortify our member"... "present our body a living sacrifice'.... "Study to show yourself approved to God'..... "finish our Course".

Every believer, ever day, should be ready to :

1.) Preach, or share the word with unbelievers.

2.) Pray.

3.) Die for your faith.

--All in the Present/Aorist- and Imperative Tense, in fact, in "take up your cross, deny self, and keep on following"-three Imperatives right there, in one verse.

And I concur with your answer.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Yes, we are in the righteousness of Christ ,we aren’t in our own righteousness, we are being made Holy, through the power of the Holy Spirit.who indwells our spirit/ heart.....being made into the image of Jesus, which is the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit...my thoughts.

We must be born again, then we are in the righteousness of Christ.....we must be birthed in the Spirit to receive that righteousness....obviously there is much more to it than that, before we are birthed in the Spirit, being drawn to Jesus, Godly sorrow, repentance,etc,etc......God was watching me that evening when I was pouring my heart out, unbeknown to me.....then by his grace, mercy and Love birthed me in the Spirit.

Hebrews 4:12​

​

New International Version​

​

​

12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

I am in the righteousness of Christ, which in other words I am right with him/ God...100%know that,when I was birthed........but, you must be born again to be in God’s righteousness ..this is my testimony...and also spoken in text, to Glorify God!....All Glory belongs to God....

​

◄ 2 Corinthians 5:21 ►

​

Context Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. New Living Translation For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ. English Standard Version For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. Edit to add, I am not a teacher, this that I have text, was relayed from the Holy Spirit to my mind...and I believe I was to share it...my thoughts, opinion and belief.

Being told to "be holy" is the same as exhorting one to "be sanctified," or to "be righteous."

1 Peter 1.15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”

 

[Randy Kluth]

Well, let me try it this way, and maybe you won't dodge it for the 3rd time.

Ready?

Do you BELIEVE that if you dont "continuance" as you describe it....... then you will lose your salvation"?

I believe in "Perseverance" with a capital P.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The sinner is an unrighteous son of the Devil, until God makes them Righteous by "faith".

I believe we are born "sons of disobedience," but not necessarily "sons of the Devil."

"faith is counted as Righteousness".

This person, all of us, came to God, as ungodly.
So, we came to God as ungodly, and unrighteous, and SECONDS LATER, we are equal To God's Righteousness.

Being born a "son of disobedience" does not mean we cannot be born in a general state of righteousness. John the Baptist was born already energized by the Spirit.

The next day, ...... we are still the Same Righteousness, and have not done a single good deed for God yet.

That's irrational. Of course people can do good deeds for God.

We've been made righteous, and that not by works or keeping the law.

A month later, we are the same.

A billion years from now....the Same God who made us Righteous, through the Cross of Christ, still sees us as "made righteous.".

1 Peter 1.15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”

Read it like it is, brother: "Be holy." That is a command. And if we can "do" it, then we can not only be "made righteous," but we can also "do good deeds."

 

[Behold]

Being told to "be holy" is the same as exhorting one to "be sanctified," or to "be righteous."

That verse has a context.

Its this..

Be Holy, (God says).....as I AM HOLY.

See that?
As GOD, is Holy.
And because "all our works are as FILTHY Rags", and because "ALL have SINNED", then we have NO HOLINESS To offer God.
That is why God says to "be Holy as I AM.... .Holy".

How do you to that?
God has to give you HIS HOLINESS, as "The Gift of Righteousness"., as that is "God's Holiness", and He told you to have HIS.

That's the only way to possess it.

= Jesus said, "you must be born again", as when you are you now exist as "one with GOD", and that is how you find God's Holiness.
Its only be being "In Christ"....."MADE Righteous"... as "The Righteousness OF GOD..... "in Christ".

 

[Randy Kluth]

A born again imo/ belief ,will always keep persevering ,because they are in the Spirit, they have been birthed in the Spirit, therefore the Holy Spirit keeps us persevering, that is my belief, I can do nothing without the Holy Spirit....

I look to God and ask him to help me persevere, I can’t do anything in my own strength...it must be in God’s strength...

I have that living relationship with God Through the Holy Spirit....why, because he indwells my Spirit....and he birthed me in the Spirit...in Jesus Name.....Amen!

Obedience and Perseverance both are done by the enablement of God. The pagan world may unconsciously obey God's word, but it is does nothing for them with respect to Eternal Life.

Eternal Life comes when we choose not just to do good works but more, to "be good," to adopt the nature of Christ. To be "born again" we adopt a "new nature." That means we want to abandon our own autonomous ways for God's dependent ways. We depend on His Spirit for the virtue that comes from Christ.

 

[Behold]

I believe in "Perseverance" with a capital P.

Here is the best way to believe that...

"God , who began Salvation in all the Born again, Will HIMSELF...be FAITHFUL ... to complete it".

and.

"Jesus the author and FINISHER of our Faith".

That is how you "persevere".

 

[Randy Kluth]

Good.


Very good.
See, you can answer it.

Don't be naïve. If I ask you something 6 times in the next hour, and you are busy doing something else, that doesn't mean you're dodging anything! I've always answered your questions without dodging. That's because I have nothing to dodge, having dealt with these kinds of questions for 50 years, brother. Your insulting ways apparently have no limit?

I shouldn't have to ask you 6 times.....thats true, but at least you told us.
Episkopos wont.
And, its good for us all to be exposed., as the LIGHT is going to find us., and reveal us.
As for me, i have so many Threads, and so many Posts.....im incredibly transparent.
Ive nothing to hide here.