Hello Episkopos,
I am testifying to the very same thing in that quote. We can walk in an actual light...a light we can see as our eyes are opened to the kingdom of God. The presence of God is full of light. True Christian fellowship is in that light where we are walking together IN Christ. The sheer love and holiness in that presence causes the brethren to change the world simply by their presence.
Its effect is revelation. That's how I experience it.
(Ephesians 5:13) And choosing to walk in
His light is vital.
I believe what you are trying to explain is also what I am trying to explain. There may be others who also 'see' it, but there is a lot of mud in the water around the words 'grace' and 'works'. It's difficult to know whether those who seem not to 'see' the difference between righteousness through keeping the law and the righteousness of Christ enabling us to keep His (royal) law - and therefore do good works - have ever read
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. .
However, that doesn't give those who
see, something to boast about.
2 Timothy 2:24 - 26
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
Hello Richard,
You said some interesting things in posts further up the page. It's taken me a few of them to grasp the points you've made. But, I have to disagree with the way you've used the scriptures to which you've referred - if I have understood you correctly.
First let me say again, that neither I or Episkopos are saying we are saved by works. We are talking about being a new creation in Christ, alive from the dead (Romans 6:3, 4, 6, 7), walking in newness of life,
now. We are not saying that the flesh is not corrupt, but we
are saying that the flesh no longer controls our mind and our behaviour. This is consistent with Paul's teaching in Ephesians:
Ephesians 2:1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Clearly, Paul is saying that
they don't any more 'fulfil the desires of the flesh and of the mind',
because they have believed in Christ.
You said in post #93
Note: If we are walking with our faith in Jesus’ work on the cross then we have crucified the flesh because we no longer place our faith in what it can do but in what God has already done.
Many will say that verses 19-21 condemns everyone that commits those sins. But if that is true then it contradicts verses 1-18 which clearly show that the believer is not under the law of works.
Yes, if the flesh is crufied with Christ
in your experience, you are no longer sinning in an active way, unable to control yourself
(Gal 5:23)
Paul was writing to a church. He had already chided them for being tempted to go back to law-keeping for their righteousness.
Clearly, he is not saying they
can sin now that they are saved.
He is saying that the practice of these sins is
contrary to walking 'in the Spirit'.
Clearly he has just said:
v 16: Walk in the Spirit and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. Could this be any more clear and simple? We are not to fulfil the lust of the flesh. We are to 'walk in the Spirit'. Paul is teaching that not only is this possible, but it is essential for the believer to understand and obey this truth.
(Just as an aside, think about Paul's own testimony - such a transformation from 'breathing out threatenings and slaughter' to cherishing the churches as a nurse - and being sent to preach to the Gentiles, whom formerly, he had believed were totally excluded from the commonwealth of Israel. This man had had such a change of heart that his former behaviour no longer identified him as a danger to believers, but rather as their example. WOW!)
Now in post #107, you said:
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
The above does not apply to the child of God because =
11 And such
were some of you. But
you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NKJV
Even though my sinful flesh still sins I am
washed, sanctified, justified by the Spirit of God.
Again let me draw to your attention that Paul was writing to
a church. Paul was talking to those who had
stopped doing the sins listed in vv 9 and 10 - because they had been washed, sanctified and justified by the spirit of God. He has spoken about how they have changed already, in his opening remarks of the whole letter:
1 Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours ... 7b waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: 8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, [that ye may be] blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The term 'saint', meaning 'one who has been sanctified' takes from the vessels in the Temple, which had been 'set apart' for God's purposes. They were not used for anything else, especially not a use which would defile them. Paul uses similar terminology in Romans 9.
Please look at these verses, now, from
Ephesians 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ; 21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. This is the gospel!
Prior to this exhortation Paul wrote:
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: 19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
Now to
2 Peter 1: '... to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: 2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, 3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
'Having escaped' = past tense. Christians have already escaped from the sin through the death of Christ, if they have embraced His death.
From reading your posts, this appears not to have been what you've been taught, but, I don't think can you deny it's New Testament doctrine.
Now to
Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:
but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. mortify = put to death. Note:
we do it through the Spirit.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
God does not lead His children to sin, but rather, to
victory over sin. This is the gospel.
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Richard, do you believe the apostle Paul was mistaken? You seem to have been stating the opposite of Paul - that sin is inevitable.