Galatians 5

[williemac]

This is hilarious!! You have to be joking here!

I get the joke!!! Hey, I didn't write this post...my fingers did! LOL

Apparently Paul also got the joke. Here is what he said in Rom.7:16,17..." If then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now it is no longer I who do it but sin that dwells in me"... vs. 20: " Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me" ...
O wait a minute. He was serious.
vs. 21..." I find then a law, that evil is present within me, the one who wills to do good. 22: For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23: But I see another law in my members warring against the law of my mind..." O wretched man that I am! In vs.25, Paul states that he serves the law of God in his mind, even though his flesh has other plans.

But then we come to 8:1."There is now therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit"... Here is where many take to interpreting this according to their own logic. They emphasize that one needs to walk in the spirit to avoid condemnation. But how is this done? Paul explains in vs.5. It is according to one's mindset. And where is any mindset mentioned? In the prior chapter. The word "therefore" indicates we need to look back to see just what walking according to the spirit looks like. It is about having the mind that agrees with the law, but also recognizes one's own weakness in that his flesh has a "mind" of its own.

Paul separated himself from the sin that was present within him. He justified this by acknowledging that the law is good and that he agreed in principle with it. This is walking according to the spirit. Laugh if you will.

 

[Axehead]

What do we do about the problem of "indwelling sin"? The Law was given to deal with the acts of sin committed, but what does a man do about desires coming from the flesh? What does one do about a principle of sin that dwells in the flesh and resists the "law of God"? Before the work of sanctification can be realized in one's daily life, the principle of sin in the flesh must be effectively solved.

The "law of sin" is not overcome by the will or self-effort. The Law of sin which dwells in the flesh can also be referred to as "the old man", (Roman 6:6). One should notice that the law of sin finds its dominion in the body of man. The body is born of Adam and bears the nature of Adam. The only way for it to be free from the dominion of sin is to bury "the old man" with Christ, then sin in the body is no longer operative. This does not mean the flesh no longer exists, but that its power to rule over man is broken. This passage clearly sets forth the fact that the Law is ineffective in dealing with sin that dwells in the flesh of man. (Romans 7:7-25).

Is the Law sin? vs. 7.

No, the flaw is not in the Law, but in the sinful creature who lives under it. The Law is like its Giver, "holy and righteous and good," vs 12.

One comes to know sin through the Law, vs 7. (You shall not covet).

Sin comes in through desires of the flesh and refusing to deny oneself is to allow lust to take over. Refusal to be limited in one's desires is the very basis of evil.

Conclusion: The Law came in to deal with covetousness. However, the result was "the commandment produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead, " vs. 8. Sin lies dormant until activated by a command that brings restraint. It then gathers force to fulfill its desires.

The Law brings death, vv. 9-13

1) Where there is no Law, sin is not imputed, vs. 9.
2) Sin through the Law brought death, vs. 11.
3) The Law shows sin to be sin, vs. 13.
4) The Law basically is good, vs. 12.

Conclusion: The Law brings the sinner to face his sins. The result is condemnation and death.

The Law is spiritual, vs. 14.

It is spoken of as spiritual because its source is God.
Man is spoke of as flesh because his head is Adam.

1. The Law is made up of spiritual principles to follow.
2. In contrast, man finds himself the opposite, fleshly, weak and sinful.

So we have a conflict between the flesh and the Law. Flesh will not come under subjection to the Law of God.

Axehead

 

[RichardBurger]

Apparently Paul also got the joke. Here is what he said in Rom.7:16,17..." If then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now it is no longer I who do it but sin that dwells in me"... vs. 20: " Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me" ...
O wait a minute. He was serious.
vs. 21..." I find then a law, that evil is present within me, the one who wills to do good. 22: For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23: But I see another law in my members warring against the law of my mind..." O wretched man that I am! In vs.25, Paul states that he serves the law of God in his mind, even though his flesh has other plans.

But then we come to 8:1."There is now therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit"... Here is where many take to interpreting this according to their own logic. They emphasize that one needs to walk in the spirit to avoid condemnation. But how is this done? Paul explains in vs.5. It is according to one's mindset. And where is any mindset mentioned? In the prior chapter. The word "therefore" indicates we need to look back to see just what walking according to the spirit looks like. It is about having the mind that agrees with the law, but also recognizes one's own weakness in that his flesh has a "mind" of its own.

Paul separated himself from the sin that was present within him. He justified this by acknowledging that the law is good and that he agreed in principle with it. This is walking according to the spirit. Laugh if you will.

Thank you for actually applying reason to this subject. You have it right. Richard

What do we do about the problem of "indwelling sin"? The Law was given to deal with the acts of sin committed, but what does a man do about desires coming from the flesh? What does one do about a principle of sin that dwells in the flesh and resists the "law of God"? Before the work of sanctification can be realized in one's daily life, the principle of sin in the flesh must be effectively solved.

The "law of sin" is not overcome by the will or self-effort. The Law of sin which dwells in the flesh can also be referred to as "the old man", (Roman 6:6). One should notice that the law of sin finds its dominion in the body of man. The body is born of Adam and bears the nature of Adam. The only way for it to be free from the dominion of sin is to bury "the old man" with Christ, then sin in the body is no longer operative. This does not mean the flesh no longer exists, but that its power to rule over man is broken. This passage clearly sets forth the fact that the Law is ineffective in dealing with sin that dwells in the flesh of man. (Romans 7:7-25).

Is the Law sin? vs. 7.

No, the flaw is not in the Law, but in the sinful creature who lives under it. The Law is like its Giver, "holy and righteous and good," vs 12.

One comes to know sin through the Law, vs 7. (You shall not covet).

Sin comes in through desires of the flesh and refusing to deny oneself is to allow lust to take over. Refusal to be limited in one's desires is the very basis of evil.

Conclusion: The Law came in to deal with covetousness. However, the result was "the commandment produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead, " vs. 8. Sin lies dormant until activated by a command that brings restraint. It then gathers force to fulfill its desires.

The Law brings death, vv. 9-13

1) Where there is no Law, sin is not imputed, vs. 9.
2) Sin through the Law brought death, vs. 11.
3) The Law shows sin to be sin, vs. 13.
4) The Law basically is good, vs. 12.

Conclusion: The Law brings the sinner to face his sins. The result is condemnation and death.

The Law is spiritual, vs. 14.

It is spoken of as spiritual because its source is God.
Man is spoke of as flesh because his head is Adam.

1. The Law is made up of spiritual principles to follow.
2. In contrast, man finds himself the opposite, fleshly, weak and sinful.

So we have a conflict between the flesh and the Law. Flesh will not come under subjection to the Law of God.

Axehead

Thanks for your input on this thread. It is encouraging to see that some take the truth of God's grace serious. Richard

 

[Prentis]

What do we do about the problem of "indwelling sin"? The Law was given to deal with the acts of sin committed, but what does a man do about desires coming from the flesh? What does one do about a principle of sin that dwells in the flesh and resists the "law of God"? Before the work of sanctification can be realized in one's daily life, the principle of sin in the flesh must be effectively solved.

The "law of sin" is not overcome by the will or self-effort. The Law of sin which dwells in the flesh can also be referred to as "the old man", (Roman 6:6). One should notice that the law of sin finds its dominion in the body of man. The body is born of Adam and bears the nature of Adam. The only way for it to be free from the dominion of sin is to bury "the old man" with Christ, then sin in the body is no longer operative. This does not mean the flesh no longer exists, but that its power to rule over man is broken. This passage clearly sets forth the fact that the Law is ineffective in dealing with sin that dwells in the flesh of man. (Romans 7:7-25).

Is the Law sin? vs. 7.

No, the flaw is not in the Law, but in the sinful creature who lives under it. The Law is like its Giver, "holy and righteous and good," vs 12.

One comes to know sin through the Law, vs 7. (You shall not covet).

Sin comes in through desires of the flesh and refusing to deny oneself is to allow lust to take over. Refusal to be limited in one's desires is the very basis of evil.

Conclusion: The Law came in to deal with covetousness. However, the result was "the commandment produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead, " vs. 8. Sin lies dormant until activated by a command that brings restraint. It then gathers force to fulfill its desires.

The Law brings death, vv. 9-13

1) Where there is no Law, sin is not imputed, vs. 9.
2) Sin through the Law brought death, vs. 11.
3) The Law shows sin to be sin, vs. 13.
4) The Law basically is good, vs. 12.

Conclusion: The Law brings the sinner to face his sins. The result is condemnation and death.

The Law is spiritual, vs. 14.

It is spoken of as spiritual because its source is God.
Man is spoke of as flesh because his head is Adam.

1. The Law is made up of spiritual principles to follow.
2. In contrast, man finds himself the opposite, fleshly, weak and sinful.

So we have a conflict between the flesh and the Law. Flesh will not come under subjection to the Law of God.

Axehead

This is simply a declaration of unbelief.

The flesh nature will indeed not come under the law, but it must be put to death that we may live by the Spirit while still living in the flesh (physical, body, not the nature).

I have seen none that can actually explain this verse and reconcile it to their doctrine of lawlessness without changing the plain meaning of it:

1 Peter 4 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
[sup]2 [/sup]That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

 

[Episkopos]

Apparently Paul also got the joke. Here is what he said in Rom.7:16,17..." If then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now it is no longer I who do it but sin that dwells in me"... vs. 20: " Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me" ...
O wait a minute. He was serious.
vs. 21..." I find then a law, that evil is present within me, the one who wills to do good. 22: For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23: But I see another law in my members warring against the law of my mind..." O wretched man that I am! In vs.25, Paul states that he serves the law of God in his mind, even though his flesh has other plans.

But then we come to 8:1."There is now therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit"... Here is where many take to interpreting this according to their own logic. They emphasize that one needs to walk in the spirit to avoid condemnation. But how is this done? Paul explains in vs.5. It is according to one's mindset. And where is any mindset mentioned? In the prior chapter. The word "therefore" indicates we need to look back to see just what walking according to the spirit looks like. It is about having the mind that agrees with the law, but also recognizes one's own weakness in that his flesh has a "mind" of its own.

Paul separated himself from the sin that was present within him. He justified this by acknowledging that the law is good and that he agreed in principle with it. This is walking according to the spirit. Laugh if you will.

You have fallen into the trap!!!! Peter said that many twist Paul's meaning and condemn themselves. Paul is NOT a gnostic...keep reading!

Paul was actually afraid of being cut-off from the kingdom himself. He saw himself as responsible for his own actions. He also said...woe to me if I don't preach the gospel. Hardly the thought of one who doesn't take responsibility for his own actions. Those who do this are irresponsible people....but they will still be judged.

 

[RichardBurger]

You have fallen into the trap!!!! Peter said that many twist Paul's meaning and condemn themselves. Paul is NOT a gnostic...keep reading!

Paul was actually afraid of being cut-off from the kingdom himself. He saw himself as responsible for his own actions. He also said...woe to me if I don't preach the gospel. Hardly the thought of one who doesn't take responsibility for his own actions. Those who do this are irresponsible people....but they will still be judged.

So, to you, preaching the gosepl is the same as not sinning! -----Only a religous person preaching works can see it that way.

This is simply a declaration of unbelief.

The flesh nature will indeed not come under the law, but it must be put to death that we may live by the Spirit while still living in the flesh (physical, body, not the nature).

I have seen none that can actually explain this verse and reconcile it to their doctrine of lawlessness without changing the plain meaning of it:

1 Peter 4 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
[sup]2 [/sup]That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

The sinful flesh is still alive as long as you are alive and living in it.
*
--- What did Paul suffer from? Was it his sins of the flesh? I certainly don't see that in scriptures.
*
-- Paul suffered from the religious who would not accept his grace message. It is the same today; men who preach the gospel of freedom are always persecuted for what they preach.
*
“”That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.””
*
-- The religious take this and run to works of trying not to sin but that is not what it says in context.
*
---- The lust of the flesh is religions of works for the god they feel exists, works that earn them salvation. In other words they feel that they have to pay for it and that denies that Jesus has already paid for it.
*
-- It is the will of God that people believe Him when he sent the message of grace thru Paul. But the religious will never accept a salvation plan that does not require works of trying not to sin to pay for it.

 

[Axehead]

This is simply a declaration of unbelief.

The flesh nature will indeed not come under the law, but it must be put to death that we may live by the Spirit while still living in the flesh (physical, body, not the nature).

I have seen none that can actually explain this verse and reconcile it to their doctrine of lawlessness without changing the plain meaning of it:

1 Peter 4 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
[sup]2 [/sup]That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

Can you clarify for me how this is a declaration of unbelief?

Thank you,
Axehead

 

[Prentis]

Can you clarify for me how this is a declaration of unbelief?

Thank you,
Axehead

In re-reading I realize it might or might not be.

All depending on whether you are using this: 'So we have a conflict between the flesh and the Law. Flesh will not come under subjection to the Law of God. ' in the same way Richard does, to say that even if we are in the Spirit, we are still slaves to sin.

If this was not your meaning, my apologies, this is not directed at you, but at the wrong use of such a statement.

Blessings!

 

[Episkopos]

What do we do about the problem of "indwelling sin"? The Law was given to deal with the acts of sin committed, but what does a man do about desires coming from the flesh? What does one do about a principle of sin that dwells in the flesh and resists the "law of God"? Before the work of sanctification can be realized in one's daily life, the principle of sin in the flesh must be effectively solved.

The "law of sin" is not overcome by the will or self-effort. The Law of sin which dwells in the flesh can also be referred to as "the old man", (Roman 6:6). One should notice that the law of sin finds its dominion in the body of man. The body is born of Adam and bears the nature of Adam. The only way for it to be free from the dominion of sin is to bury "the old man" with Christ, then sin in the body is no longer operative. This does not mean the flesh no longer exists, but that its power to rule over man is broken. This passage clearly sets forth the fact that the Law is ineffective in dealing with sin that dwells in the flesh of man. (Romans 7:7-25).

Is the Law sin? vs. 7.

No, the flaw is not in the Law, but in the sinful creature who lives under it. The Law is like its Giver, "holy and righteous and good," vs 12.

One comes to know sin through the Law, vs 7. (You shall not covet).

Sin comes in through desires of the flesh and refusing to deny oneself is to allow lust to take over. Refusal to be limited in one's desires is the very basis of evil.

Conclusion: The Law came in to deal with covetousness. However, the result was "the commandment produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead, " vs. 8. Sin lies dormant until activated by a command that brings restraint. It then gathers force to fulfill its desires.

The Law brings death, vv. 9-13

1) Where there is no Law, sin is not imputed, vs. 9.
2) Sin through the Law brought death, vs. 11.
3) The Law shows sin to be sin, vs. 13.
4) The Law basically is good, vs. 12.

Conclusion: The Law brings the sinner to face his sins. The result is condemnation and death.

The Law is spiritual, vs. 14.

It is spoken of as spiritual because its source is God.
Man is spoke of as flesh because his head is Adam.

1. The Law is made up of spiritual principles to follow.
2. In contrast, man finds himself the opposite, fleshly, weak and sinful.

So we have a conflict between the flesh and the Law. Flesh will not come under subjection to the Law of God.

Axehead

So far very good. The answer lies in that Christ indwells the one with faith so that He is doing the overcoming in us. If we put to death the deeds of the flesh through the power of the Spirit...we will live!

 

[Axehead]

In re-reading I realize it might or might not be.

All depending on whether you are using this: 'So we have a conflict between the flesh and the Law. Flesh will not come under subjection to the Law of God. ' in the same way Richard does, to say that even if we are in the Spirit, we are still slaves to sin.

If this was not your meaning, my apologies, this is not directed at you, but at the wrong use of such a statement.

Blessings!

So far very good. The answer lies in that Christ indwells the one with faith so that He is doing the overcoming in us. If we put to death the deeds of the flesh through the power of the Spirit...we will live!

Hi Prentis,
No, I don’t agree with that statement “that even if we are in the Spirit, we are still slaves to sin”, and I don’t see that idea reflected in God’s Word.

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

The scriptures declare that one born from above (born-again), WAS a servant of sin, but now has been made free from sin.

Episkopos,

Yes, it is Christ in us that is doing the overcoming. We live by His life, we overcome by His life. Self-effort only produces failure.

Having presented the reign of grace in chapter 6 of Romans, it is necessary that one does not make the mistake of many that have begun in the Spirit and seek perfection through the efforts of the flesh (Gal 3:3). The Holy Spirit desires to make it very clear in this passage that the Law does not produce sanctification, it does not break the power of sin.

Through the body of Jesus Christ, the rule of Law is broken and now one bears "fruit for God" (7:4). While joined to the Law, sin in the flesh bore "fruit for death" (7:5).

One is now joined to the resurrected Savior. This reminds me of Chapter 6, which speaks of being raised with Him and being "alive to God in Christ Jesus," (6:11). Here again we see the position of the believer.

Now we can "serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter," (7:6).

The Jew was bound to the Law of Moses. Any teaching that turned one away from the Law was considered as spiritual adultery. For this reason the Gospel according to "promise" was rejected.

But, since the Law has been broken (analogy of a marriage used in Romans 7) by death, One is now Joined to Another, (7:4).

The Law of Marriage is binding until death. If a woman breaks the law of marriage before death, she commits adultery (7:3). If her husband dies she is free to be joined to another man.

The LAW RULES OVER MAN AS LONG AS HE LIVES, (7:1).

One dies to the Law through the Body of Christ (7:4).

The death of Christ broke the rule of the Law so that we have become free through death to be "joined" to another.

Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Being joined to Christ, one can now obey by the Spirit. Serving in the Spirit is an extraordinary experience compared to the old way. The old way, which is the letter of the law is now obsolete.

Wherein "the old" aroused the sinful passions of the flesh, it could never be the instrument of sanctification. One now is "released/delivered from the Law" (vv. 2, 6), "made to die to the Law" (vs 4), and is "free from the Law" (vs 3).


Thanks,
Axehead

 

[RichardBurger]

Philippians 3:2-3
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation!
3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and """""""have no confidence in the flesh,"""""
NKJV

People on this forum can shout all they want to about subjecting the flesh to what they call a new nature for the flesh but, just like Paul, I place no faith and confidence in the flesh's ability to not sin. The new nature is in the spirit, not the flesh.

 

[Episkopos]

Philippians 3:2-3
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation!
3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and """""""have no confidence in the flesh,"""""
NKJV

People on this forum can shout all they want to about subjecting the flesh to what they call a new nature for the flesh but, just like Paul, I place no faith and confidence in the flesh's ability to not sin. The new nature is in the spirit, not the flesh.

And if that spirit is not a false one then it gives you the power to not sin in the flesh. Test the spirits!

 

[us2are1]

Galatians 5
5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
*
Note: In the above we see Paul exhorting his followers to resist going back under the law. Since we have been set free from the law we are not to go back under the bondage of the law.
*
5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
7 You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth?
8 This persuasion does not come from Him who calls you.
9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump.
10 I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is.
11 And I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why do I still suffer persecution? Then the offense of the cross has ceased.
*
Note: Paul is saying that if he is still preaching the law why does he suffer from the Judizers. The offense of the cross (verse 11) is that it does away with the Jewish law and substitutes grace. To this fact the Jews take offense.
*
12 I could wish that those who trouble you would even cut themselves off!
13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
*
Note: Paul confirms that we are under liberty. However he exhorts us to love our neighbor as ourselves.
*
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
*
Note: Paul has said that they can not do the things that they wish. So then walking in the Spirit is not trying to keep the law by not sinning.

18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Note: If we are placing our belief, faith, trust and confidence in Jesus’ shed blood we are not under the law. There is only two conditions that apply to man today, either he/she is under the law of sin or they have been set free.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Note: this is a condemnation of the flesh and confirmation that flesh shall not enter heaven.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
NKJV

Note: If we are walking with our faith in Jesus’ work on the cross then we have crucified the flesh because we no longer place our faith in what it can do but in what God has already done.

Many will say that verses 19-21 condemns everyone that commits those sins. But if that is true then it contradicts verses 1-18 which clearly show that the believer is not under the law of works.

It does not contradict verses 1-18 but tells those who can hear that those who are in the flesh will twist the word to justify themselves. Those who are Christ's and under Christ's grace now walk in the Spirit of Gods Love and do not take part in the flesh which will be judged by God according to the Law.

If you sin and continue to sin and will not stop you put yourself under the Law the same as getting circumcised.

 

[RichardBurger]

It does not contradict verses 1-18 but tells those who can hear that those who are in the flesh will twist the word to justify themselves. Those who are Christ's and under Christ's grace now walk in the Spirit of Gods Love and do not take part in the flesh which will be judged by God according to the Law.

If you sin and continue to sin and will not stop you put yourself under the Law the same as getting circumcised.

You are comdemning your self since you know you still sin.

You just can't seem to get past the religious ideas. Don't you know that those in Christ have already been judged as righteous by faith in the shed blood of Jesus? -- Abraham BELIEVED GOD and it (his believing God) was counted as righteousness before God.

We are no longer judged by the law; we are judge as to whether we have faith in the shed blood of Jesus to reconcile us to God. NOT OF WORKS but believing, having faith, trust, confidence in God's promises of reconcilation thru Jesus' work on the cross just as believing Abraham believed God.

The religious never know if they have done enough to be saved but those that have faith in God's promises in Christ KNOW they are saved.

And if that spirit is not a false one then it gives you the power to not sin in the flesh. Test the spirits!

So you are claiming that you no longer sin in tthe flesh. If you still sin, even a little one, then you are still sinning and your words are false.

 

[Episkopos]

You are comdemning your self since you know you still sin.

You just can't seem to get past the religious ideas. Don't you know that those in Christ have already been judged as righteous by faith in the shed blood of Jesus? -- Abraham BELIEVED GOD and it (his believing God) was counted as righteousness before God.

We are no longer judged by the law; we are judge as to whether we have faith in the shed blood of Jesus to reconcile us to God. NOT OF WORKS but believing, having faith, trust, confidence in God's promises of reconcilation thru Jesus' work on the cross just as believing Abraham believed God.

The religious never know if they have done enough to be saved but those that have faith in God's promises in Christ KNOW they are saved.



So you are claiming that you no longer sin in tthe flesh. If you still sin, even a little one, then you are still sinning and your words are false.

You are reasoning in the carnal mind. A true Christian is learning to walk in a new creation...through a divine re-birth. Most call this being "born again" although most don't understand what that is. We become perfect as He is perfect simply by remaining in the presence of God...no works...just grace. It is about location, location, location. A person cannot sin in the presence of God. God is holy, and His presence is very powerful. Those who have been (or who presently abide in this presence) will testify to this.

A new creation in Christ is yet very immature. The only way to walk in the purpose of God is to forsake the things of this world. But this is very difficult at first.
So we spend time in the Spirit and then not...as we are led astray through what we believe is still important. So we are learning to trust God as if for our next breath. It is hard to explain this process to someone who has lifted a self-made religion from the pages of the bible.

 

[dragonfly]

location, location, location

Best precis I've ever seen, for John 15:4, 5 and 7.

 

[RichardBurger]

You are reasoning in the carnal mind. A true Christian is learning to walk in a new creation...through a divine re-birth. Most call this being "born again" although most don't understand what that is. We become perfect as He is perfect simply by remaining in the presence of God...no works...just grace. It is about location, location, location. A person cannot sin in the presence of God. God is holy, and His presence is very powerful. Those who have been (or who presently abide in this presence) will testify to this.

A new creation in Christ is yet very immature. The only way to walk in the purpose of God is to forsake the things of this world. But this is very difficult at first.
So we spend time in the Spirit and then not...as we are led astray through what we believe is still important. So we are learning to trust God as if for our next breath. It is hard to explain this process to someone who has lifted a self-made religion from the pages of the bible.

So you are saying you no longer sin, RIGHT????

1 John 1:7-8
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
NKJV

 

[Episkopos]

So you are saying you no longer sin, RIGHT????

1 John 1:7-8
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
NKJV

Very tired of this...completely unteachable. Keep your sinful salvation.

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

 

[Axehead]

Best precis I've ever seen, for John 15:4, 5 and 7.

Yes, I thought that was very good, too. Location, location, location = Spiritual Geography

All of us are aware of our physical geography -- what town, city, county, state and nation we reside in, as well as what the land, laws, economy and people are like where we live. However, we need to be equally aware that we are just as much a part of an unseen, spiritual geography. Within this spiritual geography are different places where we can abide. Two kingdoms are in existence here, with no neutral territory. Throughout our brief time on earth, we are always abiding somewhere in this unseen land, whether we know it or not. The choices you make, the words you speak, the things you do, and the way you live, all reflect where you are abiding.

Axehead

 

[RichardBurger]

Very tired of this...completely unteachable. Keep your sinful salvation.

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

I am tired of those on forums who think they no longer have sins of the flesh in their lifes when they KNOW they still do. They do not stop sinning themselves but they insist that others must do it. No man on earth has a sinless life while they live in sinful flesh.
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Your idea that you are here to teach me is very arrogant. The word of God is my teacher, not you. I am here to speak what I believe to be true, not to FORCE my belief on others.
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You quote Rev 22:11 as if it makes 1 John 1:7-8 void. If you say you no longer have sin in your life you are, according to 1 John 1:7-8, a liar.
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Telling others that they must do what you can not do is being UNJUST.
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The children of God are righteous only because God has made them righteous by imputing His righteousness for them. He does this for those that have faith, trust, confidence in His work on the cross. Not because of a person trying to be self righteous by trying not to sin.
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They are led by the Spirit of God and what they do is between them and God, Not between them and you. - You should remember what God said to Peter in his vision; “what God has called clean let no man call unclean.”
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God's righteousness is a free gift from God imputed to those that will trust in HIM. It can't be earned by trying to make the sinful flesh sinless.
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You lay on others what you can not do yourself. That is way beyond being unjust. I think there is a word for that that starts with an H.

You are reasoning in the carnal mind. A true Christian is learning to walk in a new creation...through a divine re-birth. Most call this being "born again" although most don't understand what that is. We become perfect as He is perfect simply by remaining in the presence of God...no works...just grace. It is about location, location, location. A person cannot sin in the presence of God. God is holy, and His presence is very powerful. Those who have been (or who presently abide in this presence) will testify to this.

A new creation in Christ is yet very immature. The only way to walk in the purpose of God is to forsake the things of this world. But this is very difficult at first.
So we spend time in the Spirit and then not...as we are led astray through what we believe is still important. So we are learning to trust God as if for our next breath. It is hard to explain this process to someone who has lifted a self-made religion from the pages of the bible.

God makes the children of God a new creation """IN CHRIST"""" not in the flesh. Man can not make himself a new creation """IN THE FLESH""" by what he does or doesn't do.

Being born by the Spirit is not being born by the flesh. The flesh is born of a fleshly union between flesh. The human spirit can only be born by the Holy Spirit.

Every child of God has forsaken this world when the go to Jesus and trust in Him to save them instead of trusting in what they do in this world to save themselves. The children of God know they are God's children because God has given them the Holy Spirit as a seal for the day they are caught up in the air to be with Jesus. You can't earn this seal. God gives it when a person places ALL their belief, faith, trust, and confidence in His (Jesus') work on the cross for their reconciliation to God.