Galatians 5

[RichardBurger]

Galatians 5
5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
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Note: In the above we see Paul exhorting his followers to resist going back under the law. Since we have been set free from the law we are not to go back under the bondage of the law.
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5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
7 You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth?
8 This persuasion does not come from Him who calls you.
9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump.
10 I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is.
11 And I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why do I still suffer persecution? Then the offense of the cross has ceased.
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Note: Paul is saying that if he is still preaching the law why does he suffer from the Judizers. The offense of the cross (verse 11) is that it does away with the Jewish law and substitutes grace. To this fact the Jews take offense.
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12 I could wish that those who trouble you would even cut themselves off!
13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
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Note: Paul confirms that we are under liberty. However he exhorts us to love our neighbor as ourselves.
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14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
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Note: Paul has said that they can not do the things that they wish. So then walking in the Spirit is not trying to keep the law by not sinning.

18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Note: If we are placing our belief, faith, trust and confidence in Jesus’ shed blood we are not under the law. There is only two conditions that apply to man today, either he/she is under the law of sin or they have been set free.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Note: this is a condemnation of the flesh and confirmation that flesh shall not enter heaven.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
NKJV

Note: If we are walking with our faith in Jesus’ work on the cross then we have crucified the flesh because we no longer place our faith in what it can do but in what God has already done.

Many will say that verses 19-21 condemns everyone that commits those sins. But if that is true then it contradicts verses 1-18 which clearly show that the believer is not under the law of works.

 

[xBluxTunicx82]

Good post, and valid points. But may I ask, how do you explain Christ teaching that the law was not abolished? All of the accounts where Christ reiterates the same law when saying 'it is written'? If sin 'is a transgression of the law' and that law is done away with, then by what do we use to discern the bad seeds? By their works, I know, but if we have no law to base our perception on, then what guides our morality?

 

[veteran]

Good post, and valid points. But may I ask, how do you explain Christ teaching that the law was not abolished? All of the accounts where Christ reiterates the same law when saying 'it is written'? If sin 'is a transgression of the law' and that law is done away with, then by what do we use to discern the bad seeds? By their works, I know, but if we have no law to base our perception on, then what guides our morality?

That's one of the matters I've continually tried to get him (and others) to understand, even with what Apostle Paul told Timothy in 1 Timothy 1:8-11 and Romans 7:7.

Moreover, I have tried here to get other brethren to recognize that God's laws (except for the ordinances which Christ nailed to His cross) never died, but that only we are dead to the law IF we walk by The Spirit and not by our flesh, like Paul taught in Galatians and Romans.

They don't appear to understand how the Wicked One has the strategy to remove all of God's laws from His people, trying to make us a lawless people. They don't understand allowing the devil to do that only means the bringing in of another set of laws not from God, but a set of unrighteous laws administered by the wicked.

 

[xBluxTunicx82]

No they don't. Have you ever been to Bill Fincks site at christogenea.org? You might enjoy it as I see you are onto the truth. You may enjoy fellowship there as well, but you will have to request such, they don't allow just anyone in. As can be seen here, there are obvious snakes in our midst. Here's an excerpt on Passover and how it relates to Christians and not the jew as taught by mainstream churchianity.

Christ Is Risen!

Dear Remnant in Christ,

Thank you for the email responses concerning inquiries about the true Saxon Israelite Christian Passover.

This is to answer a few questions from the brethren as to how we should be celebrating the Passover. This reply is not to debate whether or not the Feast Days still apply for our Saxon family and national law. Scripture teaches us that they do, but that can be left for later or possibly another email thread altogether. What is extremely important is that the remnant brothers and sisters who plan on observing Passover don’t get mistakenly led down the path of entering into some of the morbid jewish (Edomite) Rabbinic tradition of their fake passover such as slowly torturing a lamb by cruel neck slitting (kosher), or by setting the dinner table with Babylonian Talmudic traditions.

There are eight Israelite Feasts we are to be upholding as given to us in the Scriptures directly from Yahweh God Almighty. Today’s so called “jews” celebrate a convoluted perversion of them based on the Babylonian interpretation of inserting forbidden Moon times (a feminine non ruling symbol) into Yahweh’s commanded Feasts which are our Saxon Holy Days set upon a true Solar Year (a ruling masculine standard).

Lunar or soli/lunar times have nothing at all to do with Yahweh’s calendar system of time keeping for His Saxon race. Yahweh’s calendar of events is fixed, stable, and solid, with no variance from year to year, and they are strictly solar. We may note that the “jews” Passover and other Talmudic counterfeits never take place on the same date from year to year but vary up to three weeks difference. Thus they are not actually "yearly" feasts. The same is true with the Catholic “Ishtar” fertility celebration of the happy bunny. These are based on Moon times as well which are fickle, varying, irregularly held events with no fixed stability at all.

The trait of unreliable instability is seen throughout the Cainite/Edomite/Rabbinic nature of the anti-society (chaos). It is where they plan on taking the world's nations (as we can surely see today).
Noting an economic comparison, we can even see this with the Rothschild/Warburg Federal Reserve Note credit system where their supposed “dollar” is unstable and ever changes in value, which changing value makes it quite easy to manipulate a nation’s economy with contrived inflations and deflations. A Scriptural money system would be a FIXED system based on God created precious metals such as fixed gold with a silver balance where the natural intrinsic value of that metal sets a fixed medium of exchange that does not vary from generation to generation.

God says, “I am Yahweh I change not” (Mal.3:6) This fixed precept follows along with His Feast Days as well. Rabbinic Jewish = mixed up changes of instability. Yahweh’s Laws = fixed stable methods of natural order. Talmudic counterfeit Feast Days are forever changing times each year being lunar and soli/lunar. Yahweh’s Feast Days are fixed and stand firm being solar precisely taking place at the SAME TIME every year.

So what about Passover?

As this relates to our discussion, the true Israelite Passover this year is on April 2nd (as viewed on our present Gregorian calendar), and so it was last year, 10 years ago, and so it will be next year, and every subsequent year. Our racial family Passover is always on April 2nd (day 14 month 1, of Yahweh’s fixed stable solar calendar). “Web search” the Jewish counterfeit Passover and check out the last several years times and dates. It moves all over the place, just as the Federal Reserve Note does in value. It is not based in Scripture and is not to be found within Yahweh’s system of fixed laws. Catholicism seeks out the jewish lunar time method too in order to announce their dates for Easter. Likewise, Easter also flip flops in its dates of celebration from year to year. Disorder is the way of the heathen.

Never under any circumstance seek out the advice of Rabbinical books, methods, or rules for Passover. The Messianics too are quite “jewish” in their take on Passover, but then again Messianics are not Christians by their own admision.

We are to keep Passover throughout our generations. Ex.14:12 “And this day (Passover) shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to Yahweh throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by a statute for ever.”
For any mention that “for ever” could possibly mean “for the age”, it still makes no difference for us living today. That “age” goes beyond where we presently happen to be. Scripture shows us that the Feast Day times were still ongoing in the New Testament, and Tabernacles will be a great feast of importance in the yet coming fullness of Christ’s Kingdom (Zech.14) We have not reached that era yet, therefore as far as our time frame is now concerned – the Feasts are certainly valid, as commanded memorials.

Furthermore Passover is not a sacrifice day. It is a MEMORIAL DAY too as per Ex.12:14 deeply reminding us that our family was enslaved by the heathen for many generations and delivered by Yahweh. The other Feast Days, such as the Feast of Trumpets, again are memorials too, not sacrifices. Leviticus 23:24 “Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a MEMORIAL of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.”

The Christian Passover table setting:

Brothers and sisters, this is really easy. Christians can obey the heritage call to celebrate the true Israel Passover in the following manner:

1) Just after sunset of April 2nd gather with your Israelite Christian brothers and sisters
2) Have a dinner on the table of a nice leg of lamb roast (or more or less amount) NOT koshered (tortured) by a Rabbi. There are plenty of New Zealand lamb cuts at better markets this time of year. None are “koshered” unless so stated on the package. Roast it, don’t boil it.
3) If you are having a large group and want a farm fresh lamb that you want to roast whole DO NOT cruelly abuse the animal in a Talmudic slow neck bleeding Rabbi ritual which is not in the Bible, or you will be cursed by Yahweh for animal torture. If you actually are preparing a lamb farm animal for a larger assembly, email me if you want details on how to humanely kill a farm animal like civilized people with compassion. In fact do your best to not have any jewish or messianic overtones with the meal. Just be yourselves – white Christian Americans. It will all flow properly.
4) Have a nice dark green salad (bitter herbs) on the table, along with some unleavened bread, and a nice vintage bottle of red wine
5) There are no rules that exclude other good food to go along with your Passover, so there is room for “the spirit of the law” to be implemented since obviously we are not geographically back in Egypt thousands of years ago.
6) Have some prayer and Scripture reading along with dinner
7) During the meal sometime you can open your New Testament Scriptures where we are to take “communion” of the bread and wine. We usually read from Paul’s words at I Cor. 11:23-29 and have a few minutes of personal reflective prayer silently and each individually with our Father in sorrow of our sins and thanks for what Christ has done for us on the cross.
8) Finish the meal
9) After the meal Christ washed the disciple’s feet and He commanded us to do likewise. Have a few basins and towels ready for this. Our King said that if we do not participate in the footwashing we have no part in Him. It is a lesson in humbleness. (John 13:8 & 14,15) This is done at Passover and we are not authorized to do this other than after Passover dinner. Christ said to follow Him, and the importance of the foot washing is at Passover, precisely following Christ’s example. This is also extremely important for those seek after brotherly unity but are wallowing in disagreement as how to get together. We want unity? Honor the Feast Day gatherings and the unity will take care of itself with Yahweh blessing His own. (Psalm 133) We CAN achieve unity but it’s going to be done WHEN God Almighty tells us to – not our way.
10) By morning, take whatever lamb leftovers there are and burn them in a fire to completely finish the event (Ex.12:10). Don’t toss the scraps in the garbage or give it to the dog. Burn it up to complete the Holy Feast and the memorial will be finalized.

This is the New Testament continuation of the Saxon Israel Passover Feast, and it will be a blessed event you will not want to ever miss after you hold your first Christian Passover and quit the pagan Catholic substitute of Easter. Just be sincere, ask for guidance, and the Holy Spirit will lead you to do God’s bidding on this day. Don’t fret about meal particulars as our Father understands your earnest desire to please Him. You will have no problem at all with this – guaranteed.

The other Feast Days besides Passover are even less involved and it’s all a breeze to handle. It’s our family heritage we should have all been taught from childhood. But it’s never too late to start.

 

[JLB]

That's one of the matters I've continually tried to get him (and others) to understand, even with what Apostle Paul told Timothy in 1 Timothy 1:8-11 and Romans 7:7.

Moreover, I have tried here to get other brethren to recognize that God's laws (except for the ordinances which Christ nailed to His cross) never died, but that only we are dead to the law IF we walk by The Spirit and not by our flesh, like Paul taught in Galatians and Romans.

They don't appear to understand how the Wicked One has the strategy to remove all of God's laws from His people, trying to make us a lawless people. They don't understand allowing the devil to do that only means the bringing in of another set of laws not from God, but a set of unrighteous laws administered by the wicked.

Not all of God's Law, the law of Moses contained in ordinances.... that was added until faith was to be revealed.

To put it another way, The 10 commandments are good moral laws. However, when you try to keep the 10 commandments as a way of salvation, you then see how desperate you are for a Saviour.

Analogy - The Law of gravity is a law the brings order to our lives. If we choose to transgress this law by stepping off the empire state building, then the law of gravity which is a good law, kicks in and thus death. God does not throw us to the ground, we chose to violate the law of gravity!

If we step off the same empire state building with a rocket pack on, then the law of aerodynamics transcends the law of gravity.

The law of gravity has not been abolished, we are just operating in a higher law. As long as we are operating in this higher law, the law of gravity does not affect us.

When we try to operate in both laws at once, then there is disaster, or as Paul says shipwreck!

JLB

 

[RichardBurger]

Good post, and valid points. But may I ask, how do you explain Christ teaching that the law was not abolished? All of the accounts where Christ reiterates the same law when saying 'it is written'? If sin 'is a transgression of the law' and that law is done away with, then by what do we use to discern the bad seeds? By their works, I know, but if we have no law to base our perception on, then what guides our morality?

Neither Jesus or any of the 12 ever reciended the Law of Moses. It was given to the Jews, not the Gentiles.

In the 4 gospels we see Jesus, by His actions, trying to get the Jews to accept him as their Messiah and King. The first few chapters in Acts is a continuation of Peter and Stephen trying to get the Jews to accept Jesus as their Messiah and King.

No where do we see any mention of the "body of Christ" in MMLJ and the book of Acts.

Since the Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah and King Jesus revealed a gospel of grace to Paul for the Gentiles. This gospel is based on the shed blood of Jesus on the cross for salvation of men. But only if a person believes it. Paul said his gospel was hidden in God and revealed to him and that he Paul, was to go to the Gentiles with it.

But the religious will never see that Paul's gospel was hidden in God even though the scriptures they say the believe says so in plain language. They will always say that the gospel was never changed. That plays right into the hands of Satan. Satan wants men to be religious and lost and as long as they will not see the gospel that was given to Paul they will continue to teach works for salvation.

Do you not know that the law kills. No one can be saved by keeping the law becaus no one can keep it. The Holy Spirit guides the morally of God's children. If you think that we, as men, can judge who is and who isn't a child of God then you are just looking for and excuse to judge others. Read the story of the "wheat and the Tares".

That's one of the matters I've continually tried to get him (and others) to understand, even with what Apostle Paul told Timothy in 1 Timothy 1:8-11 and Romans 7:7.

Moreover, I have tried here to get other brethren to recognize that God's laws (except for the ordinances which Christ nailed to His cross) never died, but that only we are dead to the law IF we walk by The Spirit and not by our flesh, like Paul taught in Galatians and Romans.

They don't appear to understand how the Wicked One has the strategy to remove all of God's laws from His people, trying to make us a lawless people. They don't understand allowing the devil to do that only means the bringing in of another set of laws not from God, but a set of unrighteous laws administered by the wicked.

How can we be dead to the Law of Moses and yet still be under the Law of Moses. That is the whole point of Paul's writings, we, the children of God, are not under the Law.

But there were Judaizers trying to tell Paul's flock that they must keep the law and you are doing the same thing.

 

[xBluxTunicx82]

Neither Jesus or any of the 12 ever reciended the Law of Moses. It was given to the Jews, not the Gentiles.

Nowhere in the history of the Israelites are they ever reffered to as 'Jews'. As a matter of fact it isn't until 2 Kings 16:6 that we read this, "[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]At that time Rezin king of Syria recovered Elath to Syria, and drave the Jews from Elath: and the Syrians came to Elath, and dwelt there unto this day." KJV [/background]
[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]Other translations call them Edomites, the great part about this is that in the [/background]The Jewish Encyclopedia,1925 edition, vol. 5, p 4 the jews themselves tell us that "Edom is modern Jewry" The Chosen seed of Yahweh God to whom the law was delivered on Sinai was most definitely NOT jews. They are known as the House of Israel and sometimes the House of Ephraim throughout scripture.[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)] [/background]

In the 4 gospels we see Jesus, by His actions, trying to get the Jews to accept him as their Messiah and King. The first few chapters in Acts is a continuation of Peter and Stephen trying to get the Jews to accept Jesus as their Messiah and King

Get the jews to accept Him? Who has any right to 'accept' Him, He is God in the Flesh and we should worry about Him accepting us, I say! He continually rebuked them for their hypocrisies and the twisting of scripture to fit their easy way of life. Just as today, a non-jew is considered a 'goy' a mere cattle to be used for their advancement on earth. These same jews In Gittin 56b, 57a of the Talmud, is a story is mentioned in which Onkelos summons up the spirit of a Yeshu who sought to harm Israel. He describes his punishment in the afterlife as boiling in excrement. They viewed our Savior as their enemy. Just as He did them.

To the Pharisees Jesus spake these words, John 8:44 "[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]Ye are of [/background]your[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."[/background]
In fact, almost the entire time Jesus was in Jerusalem, he continually rebuked these same jewish Pharisees. Even to this day, they continue to work their evil around the world.

No where do we see any mention of the "body of Christ" in MMLJ and the book of Acts.



1 Corinthians 12:12-14

King James Version (KJV)

[sup]12 [/sup]For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
[sup]13 [/sup]For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
[sup]14 [/sup]For the body is not one member, but many.

Since the Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah and King Jesus revealed a gospel of grace to Paul for the Gentiles. This gospel is based on the shed blood of Jesus on the cross for salvation of men. But only if a person believes it. Paul said his gospel was hidden in God and revealed to him and that he Paul, was to go to the Gentiles with it.

What about the Lost Sheep, those that were dispersed to the north and the west after the fall of the Northern Kingdom of Israel? And the subsequent release from Assyrian captivity? What about Jesus' words that He came only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel, or when He referred to the Canaanite woman that begged Him to save her daugher as a 'dog'. in Matthew 15:26; 27 She even acknowledges herself as a dog in her response to our Saviors words! Great was her faith so her prayer was answered, but still the fact remains, there are sheep and there are goats. In the end, the sheep will be seperated from the goats and destroyed. The Gentiles, or 'genos' are the other races outside of Israel, Israel is the elect throughout the bible and it is not the nation state that we know today!

But the religious will never see that Paul's gospel was hidden in God even though the scriptures they say the believe says so in plain language. They will always say that the gospel was never changed. That plays right into the hands of Satan. Satan wants men to be religious and lost and as long as they will not see the gospel that was given to Paul they will continue to teach works for salvation.

Any true Christian knows that we are saved by grace and not works. The works are still important as ever, but ultimately it was Yahshua Christs atoning blood that redeemed His people, Israel.

Do you not know that the law kills. No one can be saved by keeping the law becaus no one can keep it. The Holy Spirit guides the morally of God's children. If you think that we, as men, can judge who is and who isn't a child of God then you are just looking for and excuse to judge others. Read the story of the "wheat and the Tares".
I have done so on numerous occasions, and still, He refers to the tares as literal children of the devil. These seeds are 'sperma' in Greek, what do you imagine that is? Tares look identical to wheat until harvest, when the wheat will 'bow down' to be harvested while the tares remain standing. Just as in the end, every head shall bow and every tongue shall confess, but that does not save those that Jesus says 'I knew you not, depart from me'


How can we be dead to the Law of Moses and yet still be under the Law of Moses. That is the whole point of Paul's writings, we, the children of God, are not under the Law.

The children of God are descendants of Adam, the 'ruddy' man who his later family is described as fair, white, eyes of sapphires.. Whites The children of Jacob/Israel came through this same line and you are right, the Law was given only to Israel, but it is not the jew today, Just as prophesied, All of Israel but a remnant would lose their identity.

But there were Judaizers trying to tell Paul's flock that they must keep the law and you are doing the same thing.

 

[brightmorningstar]

RichardBurger,
I think your problem is you are referring to Paul's gospel and Paul's followers. You seem to have excluded from what you call Paul's gospel that it doesnt have followers of Paul or Paul's gospel, but followers of Christ and the gospel of Christ.

Around the time of Nicene we had the heresy of Maricionism which didnt acknowledge what Christ said about the OT law and prophets because God didnt live up to Marcion's expectations of God or love where God punished disobedience. Now we tend to see this liberal rejection of Paul's letters because some of the specifics in them dont meet liberal expectations.

This confusion over the law is actually legalism, and what xBlux says is valid. There are two covenants, the OT law is still there, it hasnt been abolished, it was an example to the world that the Israelites/Jews/God's people were chosen to show and demonstrate to the world. Jesus Christ is the Messiah so He is the Jews Messiah as well, not just the Gentile's Messiah.

 

[RichardBurger]

I suppose you do not know what "MMLJ" means. My statement was that no where in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and the book of Acts do we see any mention of the "boddy of Christ." --- My statement still stands as the truth.

RichardBurger,
I think your problem is you are referring to Paul's gospel and Paul's followers. You seem to have excluded from what you call Paul's gospel that it doesnt have followers of Paul or Paul's gospel, but followers of Christ and the gospel of Christ.

Around the time of Nicene we had the heresy of Maricionism which didnt acknowledge what Christ said about the OT law and prophets because God didnt live up to Marcion's expectations of God or love where God punished disobedience. Now we tend to see this liberal rejection of Paul's letters because some of the specifics in them dont meet liberal expectations.

This confusion over the law is actually legalism, and what xBlux says is valid. There are two covenants, the OT law is still there, it hasnt been abolished, it was an example to the world that the Israelites/Jews/God's people were chosen to show and demonstrate to the world. Jesus Christ is the Messiah so He is the Jews Messiah as well, not just the Gentile's Messiah.

The Jews were promised a Messiah and king. Jesus came to fulfill that promise but the jews rejected Him. He was never promised to be a Messiah and king to the Gentiles. --- When the jews (Israel) rejected Jesus, Jesus sent Paul with another gospel, a gospel of grace. In this age of grace everyone is saved in the same way; by placing belief, faith, trust, and confidence in the shed blood of Jesus on the cross to reconcile them to God. There is no other way for men and women to be saved today. When they are saved they become children of God and are joint heirs with Christ. The jews were never promised to become joint heir with their Messaih and king.

So you think I have a problem. You seem to be like most others on forums, in order to elevate yourself you make others have a problem. I will not comment on what you wrote until you acknowledge the fact that "nowhere in the the first 4 books of the New Testament, (for the slow that includes the books of Mathew, Mark, Luke, John, and the book of Acts), do we see the words "body of Christ" meaning those saved under grace. You can say I have a problem all you wish but since you do I will say that you just want to change the subject and impose your thoughts on this thread without addressing the statements I made in the O.P..

 

[brightmorningstar]

RichardBurger,
I highlighted the problem, you haven’t chosen to respond to it but rather merely question whether there is one In the epistles by Paul it says he received what he preached from the risen Lord, so it is the same gospel that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and all the other NT writers witness. He also says dont follow Paul or Apollos but follow Christ, yet here are you referring to Paul's supposed followers.

"nowhere in the the first 4 books of the New Testament, for the slow that includes the books of Mathew, Mark, Luke, John, and the book of Acts, do we see the words "body of Christ" meaning those saved under grace.

that’s 5 books not 4.
Sorry but judging the rest of the NT by the first 4 or 5 books is not Christianity my friend.
Why would that be crucial for you? Anyway we see He said take eat this is my body, whilst braking the bread for his disciples. That kind of implies it doesnt it?

You can say I have a problem all you wish

well I do.

but since you do I will say that you just want to change the subject and impose your thoughts on this thread without addressing the statements I made.

I was addressing the statement you made, it was built on the faulty foundation described.

 

[RichardBurger]

RichardBurger,
I highlighted the problem, you haven’t chosen to respond to it but rather merely question whether there is one In the epistles by Paul it says he received what he preached from the risen Lord, so it is the same gospel that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and all the other NT writers witness. He also says dont follow Paul or Apollos but follow Christ, yet here are you referring to Paul's supposed followers.

that’s 5 books not 4.
Sorry but judging the rest of the NT by the first 4 or 5 books is not Christianity my friend.
Why would that be crucial for you? Anyway we see He said take eat this is my body, whilst braking the bread for his disciples. That kind of implies it doesnt it?

well I do.
I was addressing the statement you made, it was built on the faulty foundation described.

Then address this!

The Jews were promised a Messiah and king. Jesus came to fulfill that promise but the jews rejected Him. He was never promised to be a Messiah and king to the Gentiles. --- When the Jews (Israel) rejected Jesus, Jesus sent Paul with another gospel, a gospel of grace. In this age of grace everyone is saved in the same way; by placing belief, faith, trust, and confidence in the shed blood of Jesus on the cross to reconcile them to God. There is no other way for men and women to be saved today. When they are saved they become children of God and are joint heirs with Christ. The jews were never promised to become joint heir with their Messaih and king.

Jesus Himself said he was not sent to the Gentiles but only to the lost sheep of Israel. But most religious people blow that satement He made away because they wish to impose the "gospel of the kingdom" onto those under grace. The gospel Jesus and the 11 preached was that the promised kingdom WAS AT HAND. Nowhere did Jesus or the 11 preach the gospel of grace. Nowhere in MMLJ and the book of Acts do we see any mention of "the body of Christ." And unlike most rerligious people I think that is a very important thing to see. If you can't see this then YOU have a problem.

 

[brightmorningstar]

RichardBurger,
Ok let me deal with each sentence.

The Jews were promised a Messiah and king. He was never promised to be a Messiah and king to the Gentiles.

How come? Jesus said make disciples of all Nations (Matthew 28 etc. ) Also read Genesis and Deuteronomy 4, the Jews were to be an example for all, so the Messiah would be promised for all, right?

For example Jesus came to fulfill that promise but the jews rejected Him.

Not all the Jews rejected Him, and He still is their Messiah even though most don’t recognize Him.

--- When the Jews (Israel) rejected Jesus, Jesus sent Paul with another gospel, a gospel of grace.

Not according to Paul, according to Paul it is the same gospel. You have made the same mistake again.
Romans 3:29
Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too,

The jews were never promised to become joint heir with their Messaih and king.

they were by the Messiah Himself.

Jesus Himself said he was not sent to the Gentiles but only to the lost sheep of Israel.

Yes but after saying to the Canaanite woman that He was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel, He healed her.

 

[xBluxTunicx82]

And my statement as well, you claim that Jesus was a Jew, that the Israelites of Old were Jews, and that the Jew is still to this day a blessing to the world?

WHAT BLESSING!!??

Where in the bible are we taught that 'jews are the chosen' If you are refering to the Southern Kingdom of Judah or the individual TRIBE of Judah, then do so properly, for they are JUDAHITES, not Jews.

I pray that those here stop relying on a preacher or a seminary to tell you what God says, GO READ IT FOR YOURSELF AND STOP FALLING FOR JEWISH FABLES!!

It also appears that you didnt fully read what I wrote to begin with.. Typical, you probably saw that I wasnt going to praise the jews and just stopped reading

 

[RichardBurger]

RichardBurger,
Ok let me deal with each sentence.
How come? Jesus said make disciples of all Nations (Matthew 28 etc. ) Also read Genesis and Deuteronomy 4, the Jews were to be an example for all, so the Messiah would be promised for all, right?
Not all the Jews rejected Him, and He still is their Messiah even though most don’t recognize Him.

Not according to Paul, according to Paul it is the same gospel. You have made the same mistake again.
Romans 3:29
Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too,

they were by the Messiah Himself.

Yes but after saying to the Canaanite woman that He was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel, He healed her.

I see you can't back up your statement with any scriptures. You see Romans, written by Paul, as support for what you said. But Romans was written by Paul, not any of the 11.

I do think I said that in this age of God's grace (Paul's gospel) all BOTH JEW AND GENTILE are saaved in the same ways, by faith in the attoning work of Jesus' shed blood on the cross. Perhaps you missed it.

The Canaanite women was an exception, not to be taken that Jesus came to the Gentiles too. It does not negate what Jesus said.

Let me make it clear that Jesus Christ, by His own words, did not come to minister to the Gentiles, nor was His message "the kingdom gospel" sent to the Gentiles. He did not offer the "kingdom of heaven" TO the Gentiles. The following scriptures support my view.

Matt 10:5-7 (NKJ)
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

Matt 15:23-24 (NKJ)
23 But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, "Send her away, for she cries out after us."
24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Paul said: Rom 15:8 (NKJ)
8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

The promises were that their Messiah and king would establish a kingdom for the Jews.

Note that in Matt 10:5-7 and Matt 15:23-24 Jesus said He did not come EXCEPT to the house of Israel. Jesus came to confirm/fulfill all that was written of Him in the O.T. His mission was to the Jews, not to the Gentiles. This is what Paul meant in Rom 15:8.

However we see that God had a plan to save the Gentiles but it had been HIDDEN in God and it was revealed to Paul. The scriptures you say you believe plainly say it was hidden. But most do not believe the scriptures since it interferes with their theology.

 

[Episkopos]

Good post, and valid points. But may I ask, how do you explain Christ teaching that the law was not abolished? All of the accounts where Christ reiterates the same law when saying 'it is written'? If sin 'is a transgression of the law' and that law is done away with, then by what do we use to discern the bad seeds? By their works, I know, but if we have no law to base our perception on, then what guides our morality?

We are not to accomplish the law through our own efforts. The law does not provide it's own power. It's like "batteries not included". But through Christ we DO accomplish the law. Christ fulfills the law in us so that we remain as He is. We know that we are in Christ when we no longer think or do unrighteousness or sin. When we are filled with the Spirit, there is no room for any impurities to enter in.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Richard Burger,

I see you can't back up your statement with any scriptures.

Really? You dont think Matthew 28, Deuteronomy 4 and Romans 3 that I quoted are scripture?
Are you sure? Would you like to correct that they are and thus I did back up my statement with scriptures?

You see Romans, written by Paul, as support for what you said. But Romans was written by Paul, not any of the 11.

Neither was the gospel of Matthew or Deuteronomy. But Paul received what he preached from the risen Lord.

I do think I said that in this age of God's grace (Paul's gospel)

Sorry I don’t do liberal, Paul says he preached what from the risen Lord and it is the gospel of Jesus Christ.

all BOTH JEW AND GENTILE are saaved in the same ways, by faith in the attoning work of Jesus' shed blood on the cross. Perhaps you missed it.

No, and that is the gospel of Jesus Christ just as Matthew 28 says, go into all the world and make disciples of all nations.

Now I have not said that Jesus didn’t come to the Jews, so I don’t know why you keep repeating that, the issue is that He expected His disciples to go into all the world and make disciples of all nations

 

[RichardBurger]

Now I have not said that Jesus didn’t come to the Jews, so I don’t know why you keep repeating that, the issue is that He expected His disciples to go into all the world and make disciples of all nations

Jesus gave Israel a 40 year chance to accept Him as their Messiah and King. But Israel rejected Him. How could the 12 (11) convince the world that Jesus was their Messiah and King if they couldn't even get the nation of Israel to accept Him? Because the nation of Israel would not accept Him as their Messiah and King, God destroyed the Temple in 70 AD.

As for the 12 (11) going out into the world preaching Jesus to everyone I include this scripture which clearly says they did not. But you will not accept it as meaning they did not go to the Gentiles.

Acts 11:19
19 Now those who were scattered after the persecution that arose over Stephen traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to no one but the Jews only.
NKJV

After the murder of Stephen it was the Jews who scattered, not the Gentiles.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Richard Burger,

Jesus

Let me stop you there, you haven’t addressed even my question before the last.
You made the statement that I had not backed up my statement with scripture yet I cited Matthew 28, Deuteronomy 4 and Romans 3. So do you or do you not see those as scripture?

Now..

Jesus gave Israel a 40 year chance to accept Him as their Messiah and King

Where did he say that? Are you assuming this was the destruction of the temple and that is it for the Jews?

As for the 12 (11) going out into the world preaching Jesus to everyone I include this scripture which clearly says they did not. But you will not accept it as meaning they did not go to the Gentiles.

Dont be ridiculous, Acts 10 for starters.
Acts 11:19 doesnt negate Acts 10 where Peter starts addressing Gentiles as well as Jews.

 

[RichardBurger]

This thread has lost it's meaning. I posted it to talk about Gal. 5 and just what are we discussing now?

For BMS, why do you insist that I discuss your scriptures while you are not willing to discuss the scriptures that started this thread?

What are the thoughts on what seems to be a contradiction in Gal.5? Do verses 19-21 (see the original post that started this thread) condemn the child of God if he/she sins or not? Is the child of God under the law or not?

Any other dialogue is not productive for this thread and I will not reply to it. I get no pleasure out of arguements.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Ok. Richard Burger, I need to give you an apology as re-reading your OP I did make one wrong deduction.

Please accept my apology thus far.

For a fresh start.

Many will say that verses 19-21 condemns everyone that commits those sins. But if that is true then it contradicts verses 1-18 which clearly show that the believer is not under the law of works.

So not everyone is condemned because not everyone is a non-believer. The believer does not wifully act in the flesh and repents when they fall short.