A God of Hate

[MatthewG]

Thats not true the New Covenant did not begin until after His death and resurrection. So Jesus was under the OT Law of God to fulfill all that was written. Plus God is Immutable- He does not change. The same God in the OT is the same God in the NT.

A lot of the problem comes from disbelief, that could be true.

 

[St. SteVen]

The Law of Moses is the Law of God.

Moses received the Law from God.

That's what the old testament says. What did Jesus say?

 

[MatthewG]

Humanism is a philosophy, world view, or lifestance based on naturalism-the conviction that the universe or nature is all that exists or is real. Humanism serves, for many humanists, some of the psychological and social functions of a religion, but without belief in deities, transcendental entities, miracles, life after death, and the supernatural. Humanists seek to understand the universe by using science and its methods of critical inquiry-logical reasoning, empirical evidence, and skeptical evaluation of conjectures and conclusions-to obtain reliable knowledge. Humanists affirm that humans have the freedom to give meaning, value, and purpose to their lives by their own independent thought, free inquiry, and responsible, creative activity. Humanists stand for the building of a more humane, just, compassionate, and democratic society using a pragmatic ethics based on human reason, experience, and reliable knowledge-an ethics that judges the consequences of human actions by the well-being of all life on Earth.
– Steven Schafersman

God is bad according to his law. God had the Jewish people slaughter other people - because of the covenant they made together - and that is WRONG. God having the Jewish people slaughtered in 70AD, is inhuman and unjust.

That is the thinking for some people.

That's what the old testament says. What did Jesus say?

Jesus is proclaimed to the very WORD of God. Being of the same Yahava, whom spoke and said "let there be light."

John 1:[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] The same was in the beginning with God. [3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

 

[Matthias]

Looks like you chased them all away.
Doesn't that defeat the purpose?

They’re still here.

 

[ChristisGod]

That's the standard answer. (apologetic)
But I see Jesus deconstructing the law as he went. He even said that HE was the Lord of the Sabbath.
And what was his reputation in that regard? Did he keep the OT law?

John 5:18 NIV
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath,
but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

John 9:16 NIV
Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.”
But others asked, “How can a sinner perform such signs?” So they were divided.

He kept the law perfectly otherwise He would of been a sinner. That misunderstanding the passage and what Jesus did.

 

[ChristisGod]

That's what the old testament says. What did Jesus say?

Jesus quoted Moses many times against the pharisees affirming the law and using it against them.

 

[Matthias]

That's what the old testament says.

Thanks. I accept what the Old Testament says.

What did Jesus say?

Jesus speaks in the New Testament. I also accept what he says.

Just as I think we shouldn’t pit science against the Bible, I don’t think we should pit the Old Testament against the New Testament.

The Bible isn’t the New Testament. The Bible is the Old Testament and the New Testament.

 

[St. SteVen]

They’re still here.

Just like the OT.
I just have to take your word for it with no evidence. - LOL

 

[St. SteVen]

Jesus speaks in the New Testament. I also accept what he says.

That supports my point. Thanks.

 

[St. SteVen]

Jesus quoted Moses many times against the pharisees affirming the law and using it against them.

That supports my point. Thanks.

 

[Matthias]

Just like the OT.
I just have to take your word for it with no evidence. - LOL

What? This thread was started by an atheist. You don’t have to take my word for it. He is registered as an atheist. You can and should verify that for yourself.

 

[Matthias]

That supports my point. Thanks.

“Bogus“ is the word you used. You’re dismissing a large portion, if not all, of the Old Testament. That’s going to lead you to a very different understanding of Jesus than the understanding that I have of him.

 

[St. SteVen]

He kept the law perfectly otherwise He would of been a sinner. That misunderstanding the passage and what Jesus did.

Would you agree that working on the Sabbath is the most basis violation of Sabbath rest?
How did Jesus answer that accusation?

John 5:17 NIV
In his defense Jesus said to them,
“My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.”

 

[St. SteVen]

This thread was started by an atheist.

Right. Where is he?
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH HIM ????????????

 

[ChristisGod]

Would you agree that working on the Sabbath is the most basis violation of Sabbath rest?
How did Jesus answer that accusation?

John 5:17 NIV
In his defense Jesus said to them,
“My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.”

No there are exceptions as Jesus pointed out to them with the story of David.

The gospels record several instances when Jesus healed a person on the Sabbath:

1. Simon Peter’s mother-in-law in Peter’s home (Mark 1:29–31).
2. A man with a withered hand in the synagogue (Mark 3:1–6).
3. A man born blind in Jerusalem (John 9:1–16).
4. A crippled woman in a synagogue (Luke 13:10–17).
5. A man with dropsy at a Pharisee’s house (Luke 14:1–6).
6. A demon-possessed man in Capernaum (Mark 1:21–28).
7. A lame man by the pool of Bethesda (John 5:1–18).

Whenever Jesus publicly healed someone on the Sabbath, the Pharisees accused Him of breaking the Sabbath law (Matthew 12:10; Mark 3:2, John 5:14; 9:14–16). Jesus’ response was that He was working just as His Father was working, an answer that did not appease the religious leaders: “For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God” (John 5:18). Breaking the Sabbath would have been a sin, so we must ask the question: did Jesus actually break the Sabbath law?

The short answer is “no,” but here is some background: God instituted the Sabbath for the Israelites when He gave Moses the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:8–11). On the seventh day of the week, the Israelites were to rest, remembering that God created the universe in six days and then “rested” on the seventh day (Genesis 2:1–3). The Sabbath was given for the benefit of the people (Mark 2:27) and as a sign of the Mosaic Covenant (Exodus 31:13). Over time, however, perspectives on the Sabbath changed. By Jesus’ time, the religious leaders had added burdensome rules and traditions for keeping the Sabbath and had elevated their own rules to the level of God’s instructions. It was so bad that, when Jesus’ disciples picked and ate some heads of grain as they walked through a field, the Pharisees accused them of breaking the Sabbath because they were supposedly “harvesting” and “threshing” (Luke 6:1–2).

Jesus did not break the Sabbath, as outlined by God under the Old Covenant. As He publicly stated, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them” (Matthew 5:17). The Pharisees had so conflated their own standard of holiness with God’s that they accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath law. They were furious over Jesus’ actions, yet it was only their Sabbath law He did not keep. Jesus kept God’s law, and He had done nothing to violate the Sabbath.

Many Pharisees opposed Jesus. He taught with authority unlike the scribes (Matthew 7:29). He called out their hypocrisy, saying, “They do not practice what they preach” (Matthew 23:3). He also equated Himself with God (John 5:18). In the incident involving the man with the withered hand, the Pharisees asked Jesus, accusingly, if it was lawful to heal on the Sabbath (Matthew 12:10). Jesus’ response was full of logic: “If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? How much more valuable is a person than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath” (Matthew 12:11). Jesus applied God’s principle of desiring mercy not sacrifice (verse 7), referring back to Hosea 6:6. This infuriated the Pharisees, and they plotted how they might kill Him (Matthew 12:14). Yet Jesus came to do the will of the Father (John 5:19) not to follow the man-made religious rules.

Jesus referred to Himself as the Lord of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5). In doing so, Jesus proclaimed that He is greater than the law and has authority even over the laws that govern the Sabbath day. Jesus is the One who made all things (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16), and He instituted the Sabbath day. He had the authority to overrule the Pharisees’ traditions and regulations that they had placed on the Sabbath. By healing on the Sabbath, Jesus showed God’s goodness, revealed the Pharisees’ hardness of heart, and gave a glimpse of the full healing from sin that would soon be made possible by His sacrifice on the cross.

Jesus did not break the Sabbath law, although He did act against the Pharisaical interpretation of the law. He broke the Pharisees’ laws, and they couldn’t stand it. Jesus healed on the Sabbath to help people, to glorify God, and to remind people that “the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath” (Mark 2:27). Just as the Sabbath was originally instituted to give people rest from their work and to turn people to God, so Jesus came to provide us rest from attempting to achieve salvation by our own labors. His sacrifice on the cross made a way for the law to be fulfilled and for righteousness and rest to come to all who trust in His finished work.got?

hope this helps !!!

 

[MatthewG]

Would you agree that working on the Sabbath is the most basis violation of Sabbath rest?
How did Jesus answer that accusation?

John 5:17 NIV
In his defense Jesus said to them,
“My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.”

Matthew 12​

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New International Version​

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Jesus Is Lord of the Sabbath​

12 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. 2 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”
3 He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4 He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5 Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent? 6 I tell you that something greater than the temple is here. 7 If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’[a] you would not have condemned the innocent. 8 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”
9 Going on from that place, he went into their synagogue, 10 and a man with a shriveled hand was there. Looking for a reason to bring charges against Jesus, they asked him, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?”
11 He said to them, “If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? 12 How much more valuable is a person than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”
13 Then he said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” So he stretched it out and it was completely restored, just as sound as the other. 14 But the Pharisees went out and plotted how they might kill Jesus.

I really hate how you try to get people to doubt... but you gotta do what you gotta do.

 

[St. SteVen]

“Bogus“ is the word you used. You’re dismissing a large portion, if not all, of the Old Testament. That’s going to lead you to a very different understanding of Jesus than the understanding that I have of him.

Can you show me where Jesus honored the old covenant?
Did he keep the Sabbath? That's an easy one. See post #180 and #194

 

[Matthias]

Right. Where is he?

I don’t know where anyone - be they Christian, Jew, Muslim, atheist, agnostic - is who, including you, when they aren’t posting.

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH HIM ????????????

Nothing.

 

[Behold]

Slaughtering people simply for their beliefs is genocide.

Arn't you Glad that the execution of judgment against sin is delayed by the mercy of God whom you just castigated in public?

But, and here is a "head's up" for you..... there comes a day when this arrives..
"God is not mocked"
"Its a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the LIVING God'.

and Hebrews 9:27

 

[St. SteVen]

No there are exceptions as Jesus pointed out to them with the story of David.

Exceptions to OT law? Yes, like gathering food on the Sabbath? ???
Let's look at that. Jesus actually incriminates himself when he says, "David and his companions".
Who Jesus says did what was "unlawful".