The Rapture is Post-trib

[ewq1938]

What in the world are you talking about? When the seal is actually open, the event will happen.

That's where you are wrong. The seals are just information about future events just like it was when Christ spoke of these things in Matthew 24.

Matthew 24: future events described but DO NOT HAPPEN AT THAT TIME
6th seal: future events described but DO NOT HAPPEN AT THAT TIME
7th trump: The second coming described in Matthew 24 AND the 6th seal finally happen when the last of 7 trumps sound which fulfills this verse:

1Co_15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

[The Light]

That's where you are wrong. The seals are just information about future events just like it was when Christ spoke of these things in Matthew 24.

Matthew 24: future events described but DO NOT HAPPEN AT THAT TIME
6th seal: future events described but DO NOT HAPPEN AT THAT TIME
7th trump: The second coming described in Matthew 24 AND the 6th seal finally happen when the last of 7 trumps sound which fulfills this verse:

1Co_15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Sorry, the scripture PROVES you wrong.

2 Thes 1
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Paul says the gathering happens BEFORE the day of Christ hence you are incorrect.

Additionally, the 6th seals is the coming of Jesus for the gathering and it happens before the 7th seal which is God's wrath.

You are clearly going against what is written. And it is over and over.

 

[Zao is life]

You seem obsessed with numbers, but you don't even do Revelation correctly. There are 4 events with 7 individual items. It is 6666, 5555, 7777, if you are that obsessed.

The book that is sealed is the Lamb's book of life, because the Lamb is the only one worthy to open the book, as His blood was what purchased the Atonement Covenant. The book contains the names of every descendant of Adam and Eve in need of redemption. Only after the book is unsealed, can names be removed.

The 5th Seal is when the church is complete, meeting in the air, and glorified. The restoration is complete. No one in Christ can loose their glorified restoration, but then the church has to wait for the final harvest to be completed during the Trumpets and Thunders. So that is when the rapture happens, because the full restoration only happens once.

Nice try but the judgments of God are written in the scroll, not in the seals that seal the scroll. The 5th seal is not "an event". It's a vision that is meant to unveil for you a part of what is written in the scroll.

No one - including you - will fully understand what is written in the scroll until the 7th seal has been opened and the 7th trumpet has sounded and the 7th bowl of wrath has been poured out.

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he will begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He has declared to His servants the prophets.

Just before this John was told to seal up what the seven thunders uttered.

Lightnings, thundering and an earthquake symbolize what God has judged. It's in the 7th seal, and the 7th trumpet, and the 7th bowl of wrath. But the full understanding of it has been sealed until the 7th trumpet is about to sound.

The 5th seal is merely meant to convey to you that the final and greatest tribulation the saints will ever have endured up to that point, or ever will endure after that, is about to begin. There's no "event" in it. It's a vision that unveils the meaning of part of what is written in the scroll.​

 

[Timtofly]

JESUS said 'no glorified bodies for anyone until His Return and the Resurrection.'

the Apostles said 'no glorified bodies for anyone until His Return and the Resurrection'

OT Prophets said 'no glorified bodies for anyone until His Return and the Resurrection'

That is what I posted. Open your physical eyes as well.

Being glorified is not physical. Being glorified is the putting on of the spirit. The body is not glorified. The soul is glorified by putting on the spirit. The body was already put on, at the Cross. We don't get a glorified body. We are glorified. We don't get an immortal body. The body and soul put on life, the spirit. Being glorified is total restoration, soul, body, and spirit. This happens at the 5th Seal after the 4th Seal.

Does Matthew 24 state those alive on earth are resurrected? Does John in Revelation 6 declare those on earth are resurrected? They are the only one's in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. What verse states Adam's dead flesh is resurrected?

One verse states the dead in Christ rise first. Of course they do, as they are raptured from Paradise and rise first. So why do you deny the rapture of those on earth at the same time as the 5th and 6th Seals are being opened? The church is glorified as one body, puts on the robe of white, all at the same time, the Second Coming. Yet the word Resurrection is not used in Matthew 24 nor Revelation 6. So you claim there is a resurrection, but deny the rapture? Neither are explicitly stated in either chapter.

 

[Timtofly]

The 5th seal is merely meant to convey to you that the final and greatest tribulation the saints will ever have endured up to that point, or ever will endure after that, is about to begin. There's no "event" in it. It's a vision that unveils the meaning of part of what is written in the scroll.

That is not what the 5th Seal is about.

The 5th Seal is the church glorified at the meeting in the air. Yes, the second coming is prior to the tribulation.

What is written in the Lamb's book of life is all the names of every human ever conceived. The point in opening the book is to start removing names.

You claim nothing happens when Seals are opened. Sounds like an excuse not to accept reality.

 

[Davy]

That is not what the 5th Seal is about.

The 5th Seal is the church glorified at the meeting in the air. Yes, the second coming is prior to the tribulation.

Now Timtofly, why would you want to tell such a FIB?


The 5th Seal is about persecution of some of Christ's elect during the coming "great tribulation".

It involves their giving a TESTIMONY for Christ against the 'beast'. Jesus described that TESTIMONY some of us will be delivered up to give per Mark 13:9-13. Two candlesticks are mentioned in Rev.11 along with God's two witnesses that prophesy against the beast for 1260 days. That represents the "great tribulation" time, the latter half of the Daniel 9:27 "one week".

Rev 6:9-11
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost Thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?"

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
KJV


And you believe those pre-trib rapture false prophets that the above is about Christ's Salvation?? That's just nuts.

For Brethren in Christ: what are Seals on manuscripts for? When a magistrate sent a letter it would be sealed with melted wax and have his signet embossed on it. Those are what the 7 Seals are, sealed Letters from The LORD to us that ONLY He can open unto us.

That means the SEALS main purpose is provide INFORMATION about the end events. It is about 7 SIGNS of the end.

 

[Zao is life]

That is what I posted. Open your physical eyes as well.

Being glorified is not physical. Being glorified is the putting on of the spirit. The body is not glorified. The soul is glorified by putting on the spirit. The body was already put on, at the Cross. We don't get a glorified body. We are glorified. We don't get an immortal body. The body and soul put on life, the spirit. Being glorified is total restoration, soul, body, and spirit. This happens at the 5th Seal after the 4th Seal.

John 6:39-40, 44
And this is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all which He has given Me I should lose nothing
but should raise it up again at the last day.
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes on Him should have everlasting life.
And I will raise him up at the last day.
No one can come to Me unless the Father who has sent Me draw him,
and I will raise him up at the last day."

Whenever Jesus says something three times, we should sit up and pay even more attention than we should be paying anyway when whenever we read Jesus' words.

1 Corinthians 15:35-36, 44
"But someone will say, How are the dead raised up, and with what body do they come? Foolish one! What you sow is not made alive unless it dies."

"It is sown a body, natural [Greek: sōma psychikós], it is raised a body, spiritual [sōma pneumatikós]. There is a body, natural [sōma psychikós], and there is a body, spiritual [sōma pneumatikós]."
​

The word sōma = the body.

The word psychikós is from the word psychḗ (soul / life / mind).
The word pneumatikós is from the word pneûma (spirit / breath).

Your eyes are closed to the doctrine of Jesus and the apostles, then you tell others to open their eyes.

Your doctrine is false. You are making up your own doctrine.

Therefore your eyes are closed. You just proved it to everyone in your post.​

 

[Zao is life]

That is not what the 5th Seal is about.

The 5th Seal is the church glorified at the meeting in the air. Yes, the second coming is prior to the tribulation.

What is written in the Lamb's book of life is all the names of every human ever conceived. The point in opening the book is to start removing names.

You claim nothing happens when Seals are opened. Sounds like an excuse not to accept reality.

Your eyes are closed. You don't even believe in the resurrection of the body. How can you understand anything else?

 

[Timtofly]

Now Timtofly, why would you want to tell such a FIB?


The 5th Seal is about persecution of some of Christ's elect during the coming "great tribulation".

It involves their giving a TESTIMONY for Christ against the 'beast'. Jesus described that TESTIMONY some of us will be delivered up to give per Mark 13:9-13. Two candlesticks are mentioned in Rev.11 along with God's two witnesses that prophesy against the beast for 1260 days. That represents the "great tribulation" time, the latter half of the Daniel 9:27 "one week".

Rev 6:9-11
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost Thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?"

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
KJV


And you believe those pre-trib rapture false prophets that the above is about Christ's Salvation?? That's just nuts.

For Brethren in Christ: what are Seals on manuscripts for? When a magistrate sent a letter it would be sealed with melted wax and have his signet embossed on it. Those are what the 7 Seals are, sealed Letters from The LORD to us that ONLY He can open unto us.

That means the SEALS main purpose is provide INFORMATION about the end events. It is about 7 SIGNS of the end.

You are deceived by man's doctrine, if you think that about Revelation 6.

Your explanation comes directly from human theology.

No wonder you think God's Word is just a big fib. Revelation 6 is not about human manuscripts. Revelation 6 is about the Second Coming.

 

[Timtofly]

John 6:39-40, 44
And this is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all which He has given Me I should lose nothing
but should raise it up again at the last day.
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes on Him should have everlasting life.
And I will raise him up at the last day.
No one can come to Me unless the Father who has sent Me draw him,
and I will raise him up at the last day."

Whenever Jesus says something three times, we should sit up and pay even more attention than we should be paying anyway when whenever we read Jesus' words.

1 Corinthians 15:35-36, 44
"But someone will say, How are the dead raised up, and with what body do they come? Foolish one! What you sow is not made alive unless it dies."

"It is sown a body, natural [Greek: sōma psychikós], it is raised a body, spiritual [sōma pneumatikós]. There is a body, natural [sōma psychikós], and there is a body, spiritual [sōma pneumatikós]."
​

The word sōma = the body.

The word psychikós is from the word psychḗ (soul / life / mind).
The word pneumatikós is from the word pneûma (spirit / breath).

Your eyes are closed to the doctrine of Jesus and the apostles, then you tell others to open their eyes.

Your doctrine is false. You are making up your own doctrine.

Therefore your eyes are closed. You just proved it to everyone in your post.​

2 Corinthians 5:1

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

Of course the opening of the 5th Seal is when those alive on the earth join those from Paradise. Those in Adam's dead corruptible flesh have to get rid of that dead physical body. You deny there will be a robe of white given to the entire church, just as Paul pointed out.

Those verses you quoted apply to the final harvest. These people:

"until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

All will be raised up whom God has given to the Son. No one will be left in a state of death.

Are you saying I put 2 Corinthians 5:1 somehow into God's Word?

 

[Timtofly]

Your eyes are closed. You don't even believe in the resurrection of the body. How can you understand anything else?

The resurrection of the body as an analogy?

Do you believe Paul's direct explanation, or the analogy? Is the body literally a plant? Are we a soul or a plant seed?

Paul was explaining there is a totally different body than the one planted. The old body returns to dust and a new body springs up is an analogy. You want to keep Adam's dead body, or receive God's permanent incorruptible physical body?

The resurrection of the body happened at the Cross. But you deny they came out of their graves in God's permanent incorruptible physical body. You claim they had to die a second time in order to be resurrected a second time. You deny the resurrection of their body as well, the first time. You deny that they have had permanent incorruptible physical bodies in Paradise for the last 1993 years.

The only thing I deny is that humans are plants sown as seed into the ground, an analogy. There is a bodily resurrection. Every time the soul leaves this body it immediately enters a permanent incorruptible physical body from God, and enters Paradise.

Paul states the old puts on the new. Jesus said this old body returns to dust, and to let the dead bury the dead. Jesus said that soon, none of His would even taste death. Jesus was not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. And not those alive in Adam's dead corruptible flesh, either. You and I are still, the dead, in dead flesh, no? You were not planted in the ground to have the second birth, were you? Jesus is the Resurrection and the Life. Jesus is not the "Just do a makeover and call it whitewashed". We are not plants, but literal humans.

 

[ewq1938]

Sorry, the scripture PROVES you wrong.

2 Thes 1
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Paul says the gathering happens BEFORE the day of Christ hence you are incorrect.

No, it does not say that. Verse 1 clearly places the Coming before the gathering. One cannot be gathered to Christ if Christ isn't there.

Additionally, the 6th seals is the coming of Jesus for the gathering and it happens before the 7th seal which is God's wrath.

You are clearly going against what is written. And it is over and over.

No, YOU are clearly going against what is written. And it is over and over. You do not understand Rev nor it's chronology. You have the coming happening at the wrong timeframe, and you ignore that the bible states the wrath comes at the 7th trump.

 

[The Light]

No, it does not say that. Verse 1 clearly places the Coming before the gathering. One cannot be gathered to Christ if Christ isn't there.

Mmmm. I guess you can't grasp what is going on. The Thessalonians were afraid that they had missed the gathering, when the Lord comes to gather the elect from heaven and earth. They were afraid that they were in the day of the Lord, the seventh seal. Paul assures them that they are not in the day of the Christ as first the man of sin must be first be revealed.

As far as your misguided comment, of course the Lord must come before the gathering. Which is why we know He comes at the 6th seal for the gathering as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars.

I know you want to pretend that He doesn't come at the 6th seal as the truth messes up your plan, but facts are facts. The Lord clearly comes at the 6th seal for a harvest and then the wrath of God begins.

1 Thes 2
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

No, YOU are clearly going against what is written. And it is over and over. You do not understand Rev nor it's chronology

"Thy wrath is come"
You read those words and pay no attention to all the rest of the verses. Christ clearly comes at the 6th seal for gathering before the day of the Lord. But you don't believe what is written and choose to disregard these scriptures and pretend they are not there because you want Him coming at the 7th trumpet only.

. You have the coming happening at the wrong timeframe, and you ignore that the bible states the wrath comes at the 7th trump.

Wrath comes when the 7th seal is opened and the 1st trumpet is blown. Wrath ends when the 7th trumpet sounds as the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. Christ sets up His kingdom on earth at the 7th trumpet and then comes judgement.

 

[The Light]

Denying the words of the Apostles and making your own assumptions is what the foolish virgins do!

Sounds like you have finally figured out that you are in the foolish virgins camp, those not watching as instructed, and panic has set in.

 

[David in NJ]

Sounds like you have finally figured out that you are in the foolish virgins camp, those not watching as instructed, and panic has set in.

Please read Romans chapter 11

 

[The Light]

Please read Romans chapter 11

Got it.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

So the Church is raptured to heaven. It has to be before the seals are opened as the 7 seals are the 70th week of Daniel which is about the people of Daniel. So when the Church is raptured, the fullness of the Gentiles comes in and then God deals with His Chosen as they are regrafted onto the olive tree. Two folds into one.

 

[David in NJ]

Got it.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

So the Church is raptured to heaven. It has to be before the seals are opened as the 7 seals are the 70th week of Daniel which is about the people of Daniel. So when the Church is raptured, the fullness of the Gentiles comes in and then God deals with His Chosen as they are regrafted onto the olive tree. Two folds into one.

Where does it say: "So the Church is raptured" in Romans chapter 11

 

[No Pre-TB]

Where does it say: "So the Church is raptured" in Romans chapter 11

Hahaha!

 

[No Pre-TB]

Daniel which is about the people of Daniel.

Are Daniel’s people everyone written in the book? Or are Daniel’s people those that do not serve God? Are you in the book of life? Then you are family with Daniel. What did Christ say? His family are the ones that do the will of the Father per Matthew 12:50
Were all the Jews Christ people or the ones that did his Fathers will?
Daniel’s people are the true Israel of God. Notice what it says:

and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Those not written are not his people!

 

[amigo de christo]

Where does it say: "So the Church is raptured" in Romans chapter 11

Sie digital system will unleash the mark . MOST GONNA TAKE it . many also will take it convincing themselves
hey it cant be the mark cause we would not be here . Folks got no idea what IS AT THE DOOR .
TIME IS RUNNING OUT fast my friend . TIME IS RUNNING OUT FAST . ALL who are not in lambs book of life
will believe a lie and worship the beast taking its mark . BUT THE LAMBS SURE WONT .
THE lambs will touch not the unclean thing .
I will meet them half way . They can chip or etc this body , THREE days after i die .
Yes . now i leave specific instructions to them .
After i be dead leave my body in a real warm , hot place . let it cook in the sun for a while .
Let this dead body get well bloated . THEN after three days
you can roll me over and put the chip or etc in my dead rump . PS if gas should erupt
see it as a parting gift of what i thought about the chip . ITS DUNG and i wont touch it .