James 2 No such thing as faith without works

[Ronald David Bruno]

Ghada may also be a Roman Catholic ... his soteriology lines up perfectly with it.

Don't think so, Catholics don't despise the cross!

 

[gpresdo]

My Pastor taught me to be transparent and most Christians I know were forthright in revealing their church they were proud to have been part of and their flaws as well. Heck, the first thing Evangelical Pastors would reveal was the dark life they came from and how God transformed them - their testimony.
JW's are usually very proud of their religion, especially their claim that " We know the truth"! But many have been secretive online, a strategy to cleverly lure us into their fold - lol. It doesn't work though. In America, they (1.3 million JW's) knock on doors 200 million hours/ year - imagine that. People trickle intontheirnfold at a snails pace. And after over 100 years, they still only amount to a little more than 0.1 % of the world population. In the DOOR that narrow?
The Holy Spirit does not grow churches with many false doctrines. This is nothing new, it was prevalent in the 1st century. Look at he Seven Churches in Revelation. Only two did not receive rebuke. Pergamos was a worldly church with false doctrines, sin and materialism; Thyatira tolerated sin and was undisciplined; Sardis was dead with no growth and only a few would be saved; Laodicia was neither hot nor cold - and the Lord was about to vomit them out of His mouth. When a church denies that the Holy Spirit is a person, God, Whom we are to be guided by and have a relationship with, I doubt He will take up residence in them, IMHO. I attended one of their baptisms. Strange, nothing was said during the dunking, nothing. I didn't hear any words to spiritually prepare their hearts for this. They weren't asked if they were sorry for their sins, to confess the the believed in Jesus, that He died for our sins and rose on the third day. Obviously there was no Pastor pronouncing after their "absent" confession, " I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." Nothing - just a dunk ... I thought well, you're wet and smiling ... what does that mean?
We had to attend a pre- baptism class that prepared us. We needed to know what this was all about, the outward symbolism that represented an inner transformation.
In 1900 there were 500 million Christians and now 2.65 billion - that's growth, that's fruit. That is God at population work!

Really? ...put the figures in perspective...what was the % of the 500 million population vs % of the 2.65 billion population, firstly?

Also, the numbers are badly skewed because in 1900 a Christian was a Christian....now....new age religion folks are not a Christian...but probably counted as such. Thus the numbers mean nothing.
I do not believe there are more real Christians now vs 1900. No way.
Remember scriptures tell us..."few will find the way".

 

[Igorwxi]

Кто то может ответить, как изменить пароль ??
Что я делаю не так?
Прошу подсказать.
Спасибо.

 

[Ghada]

"The Preaching........ of the Cross........is the Power of God............Unto = Salvation".

Correct. The preaching saves the repented believer, not the old wooden cross disintegrated into dust.

Makes for a great gospel song though.

 

[Ghada]

Really? Jesus said over and over again, If you believe in Me you will be saved.

Repent ye and believe His gospel

I lost count of how many verses in the Bible teach that belief in Christ leads to life.

You skip the first one He preached on earth. Repent ye, and believe His gospel.

We don't preach the same gospel, because we don't both preach everything Jesus says.

But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Sinners are called to repentance first. No unrepented sinner has even begun to answer the high calling of God in Christ Jesus, in whom is no sin.

 

[Ghada]

According to your gospel, (a works based salvation) the sinner next to Jesus could not be saved -

There is no sinner next to Jesus, but only next to the devil separated from Jesus. Physically perhaps, but spiritually no way.

For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

Only sinners that repent of sinning first, can believe and come to God for pure new birth with all things now being of God.

BUT HE WAS because he believed in Christ and confessed it with his lips, that he was guilty, a sinner and " Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom."

By the Bible preaching of Repent ye, and believe His gospel, If the angels did carry him to Abraham's bosom in hell, then it was only after he first repented of sinning before confessing the Lord's righteousness from the heart.

Now if you can grasp this concept ... pay attention. Where were his works?

If he repented and confessed from the heart, then the rest of his time on the cross was spent in the fear of the Lord, without reviling them around him, even as Jesus did not revile them reviling Him.

Matthew 27 shows both the thieves did at one point revile Jesus, but in Luke 23 we see one of them must have repented and instead rebuked the other still reviling Him.

And so, we see one of the thieves, that had reviled Jesus, first repent of his own words against the Lord, then do the righteous work of rebuke the other. And that work of repentance was also along with confessing Jesus' righteousness from the heart.

And so, we see Romans 10 fulfilled:

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[Ghada]

And we all know that faith is described in Hebrews 11:1 ( which does not include works!)"Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen." ASV

I accept the translation, though of course it can be used to teach faith and 'conviction' alone, rather than faith with evidence.

Evidence, proof, conviction are all works in the Bible. It begins with repentance from dead works as the first principle of the doctrine of Christ.

Without repenting first, there is no conviction, evidence, and proof of faith toward God. (Heb 6:1)

Conviction of the Holy Spirit without repentance, is hard hearted rebellion against God.

When God sees His faith in the heart to save the soul, is only when He sees us having His Spirit's conviction with repentance from sinning.

Repentance from lusting to cleanse within our cup, is the first commandment and work we do in Christ (Matthew 23)(2 Cor 7)(Rev 2). We first repent, and then immediately must resist the devil's tempting spirit in order to love God with all the heart and spirit and soul.

Once this first work of repentance is kept in Christ, the body also will be glorifying God.

For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

No unrepented sinner with sin in remaining in him, is God's in the body of Christ, in whom is not sin nor sinning member of His pure and holy family and house.

 

[Ghada]

And btw, many people on their death bed finally repent, turn to God, because it's just about over and they have no fight/ resistance left.

And so now you finally teach repentance first, but only on the death bed. You also finally acknowledge that it is possible to repent of all our sinning.

You implied just hearing, repenting, believing and confessing was not enough, right?

Now, this is interesting. You've never preached this gospel of the Bible before. In the past you always skip repenting, and go straight to believing to be saved first.

If the repenting from sinful works is there first, then the pure works will always be there, while believing unto His righteousness from the heart.

KJV says substance. Others say certainty, confidence, it's a knowing that what has been promised to you, something that you hope for, will be granted to you. It is not based on works:

I reject your doctrine of free gift of salvation without repentance, which is not that of Jesus to Repent ye and believe the gospel. Neither is it the teaching of Heb 11:1.

Nothing of His and eternal life with Him is granted by God to any sinner, without first repenting of sinning.

The only thing granted to unrepentant sinners is repentance. Until then just death and separation from God.

But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

First repentance unto believing, unto life, and unto salvation.

We just don't preach the same gospel, which is why you preach Christians sinning, and I preach Christians not sinning.

Your gospel of first believe unto salvation, only works continued sinning. My gospel of first repent unto salvation, works no more sinning.

Look. Jesus preaches repent, believe, and go and sin no more. You preach believe, be saved, and go an sin some more.

It's all pretty much self-explanatory.

 

[Ghada]

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God— not the result of works, so that no one may boast. Eph. 2:8-9
YOU CAN'T EARN YOUR WAY TO HEAVEN. That theology says that what Jesus did on the cross was not sufficient! It is a disgrace to His work. He did the work, He fulfilled the requirements of the Law. A gift is not earned.

This theology you are now preaching is neither the Bible's nor mine. The closest thing you have gotten to my Bible gospel, is of hearing, repenting, believing, and confessing.

If you were to add from the Bible unto life and unto salvation, then you would for the first time preach the Bible gospel, that I read and recognize from the Bible.

You said one has to produce works to be saved, yet Jesus never said that. Paul said the opposite in Eph. 2:8-9?

Both to be saved now and to ensure being saved in the end.

For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

The first works unto salvation is repenting of dead works.

The necessary works we do to ensure our salvation by not falling unto the end, is adding to our faith virtue, godliness, charity... (2 Peter 1)

Your gospel of salvation unto repentance is not my gospel of repentance unto salvation.

 

[marks]

That is why some Christians trying to escape God's judgment of their works with their faith, are trying to teach a saving faith without works, which is impossible to have. The reason no such faith is possible in this life, is because the Bible shows it's not possible for anyone alive on earth to ever be without works, which is to have no works at all.

May I ask, what does it mean to be "reborn"? "Regenerated"? "Born from above"? To be "A new creation"?

In my understanding, each of these speak of the same thing. May I ask what that means to you? How would you define being born again? What happens to us in rebirth? How does it happen?

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

May I ask, what does it mean to be "reborn"? "Regenerated"? "Born from above"? To be "A new creation"?

In my understanding, each of these speak of the same thing. May I ask what that means to you? How would you define being born again? What happens to us in rebirth? How does it happen?

Much love!

John 3 answers this question

 

[Behold]

Correct. The preaching saves the repented believer, not the old wooden cross disintegrated into dust.

Makes for a great gospel song though.

The Cross itself is just a symbol.. However, Christ had to die on a CROSS, because this was OT Prophecy being fulfilled by the real Messiah.

Its the Christ on It who is the "Gift of God".

When we "preach the Cross' we are showing How Christ died for sin, and why, and for whom. John 3:16

The Gospel of the Grace of God, is the 'preaching of the Cross", as its God's Grace that sent His Son to the Cross.
Its God's Grace that is the blood of Jesus poured out for humanity.

= ""The preaching of the Cross".

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

This theology you are now preaching is neither the Bible's nor mine. The closest thing you have gotten to my Bible gospel, is of hearing, repenting, believing, and confessing.

If you were to add from the Bible unto life and unto salvation, then you would for the first time preach the Bible gospel, that I read and recognize from the Bible.

Both to be saved now and to ensure being saved in the end.

For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

The first works unto salvation is repenting of dead works.

The necessary works we do to ensure our salvation by not falling unto the end, is adding to our faith virtue, godliness, charity... (2 Peter 1)

Your gospel of salvation unto repentance is not my gospel of repentance unto salvation.

Please answer Post #76 question. Otherwise, we are done.

 

[marks]

John 3 answers this question

I'm interested in how Ghada answers. What it means to be born again.

I've known others who speak much as he does that seem to avoid talking about chapters like Romans 6, places that teach about rebirth.

There is no sinner next to Jesus, but only next to the devil separated from Jesus. Physically perhaps, but spiritually no way.

For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

Only sinners that repent of sinning first, can believe and come to God for pure new birth with all things now being of God.

Which as we've seen would put you with everyone else, as I've seen your dishonesty with myself and with others. So then why should we listen to a person whom by their own words puts himself next to the devil? I would hear Godly teaching.

And in fact we have Scriptures which teach us, to not disregard sin, but to remain humble, and honest. Without that, what claim have we that we are anything other than that Pharisee who stands there proclaiming his own righteousness?

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'm interested in how Ghada answers. What it means to be born again.

I've known others who speak much as he does that seem to avoid talking about chapters like Romans 6, places that teach about rebirth.

I see he has yet to answer..

 

[Behold]

Both to be saved now and to ensure being saved in the end.

If works can't save you before Christ Saves you with His Sacrifice, then how can these same that didnt save you to begin with, keep you saved?

A.) They can't

 

[Rapture Bound]

Don't think so, Catholics don't despise the cross!

Yah, you're most likely right. It's also looking like he most likely will never "fess up" to his belonging to that counterfeit version of Christianity ... that is, if he actually is a member of the Watch Tower organization. As the saying goes ... "Sometimes silence says more than a thousand words ever could."

 

[gpresdo]

If works can't save you before Christ Saves you with His Sacrifice, then how can these same that didnt save you to begin with, keep you saved?

A.) They can't

Righteous works is part of being born again.

Just as repentance is part of sin forgiveness and baptism is part and together makes forgiveness complete.
They all go together.

 

[marks]

I see he has yet to answer..

One more example that people who teach as he does tend to avoid those discussions.

Much love!

 

[gpresdo]

With certain people on this board it's like pulling teeth to get a yes or no answer out of them.

LOL...you state that because .....your philosophy bible mandates a answer you want in your mind...... and you can see not the true God's word.