The 144,000 before God at the end.

[The Light]

Posted them many times:

The church will be in the tribulation which is a war against the saints, where some Christians are killed. No one is raptured away to be saved from this:

The Word says that we can escape all these thing..........and stand before the Son of man. I believe the Word
Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The seed of the woman is the 12 tribes across the earth. Israel is the woman and her seed are obviously the 12 tribes that are across the earth.

These people are already Christians when satan goes to make war against them. There is no scriptural support for the idea that the church is gone, then non-Christians suddenly accept Christ and become new Christians in the Tribulation and then fulfill the role of the persecuted church in the tribulation. That is a concept that does not appear in scripture.

Part of Israel will have its eyes opened when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. The seed of the woman will realize that Jesus is the Messiah. The 144,000 first fruits is proof of this.

So there is absolutely no mention of the Church in anything you posted.

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. Luk 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

The fifth seal is the Great Tribulation. If you understood that the wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet, you would realize that you are back in the seals in Revelation 13 and 14. Here is the great tribulation in Rev 14

Revelation 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

These verses are not the great tribulation. They occur in the wrath of God.

Rev 11 says the wrath comes at the 7th trump not ends at the 7th trump. You are literally going against what is written and replacing with your own version.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

I am not sure why you are unable to understand that when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord CHRIST HAS SET UP HIS KINGDOM ON EARTH.

I'm not sure why you are unable to see that it is the time of judgement and wrath is over. I'm not sure why you cannot see Revelation 13 and 14 occurs in the seals. I'm not sure why you are unable to see that Rev 15 and 16 is the wrath of God and occurs in the same timeframe as the trumpets of wrath.

Some have eyes to see, and some don't. That's all I can come up with, but it seems to be the case.

 

[covenantee]

Here we go again! You'll try anything to keep from answering questions! It didn't work on Covenatee and it won't work on me. Surely you can do better???

False witness.

A loser's last resort.

 

[The Light]

Here we go again! You'll try anything to keep from answering questions! It didn't work on Covenatee and it won't work on me. Surely you can do better???

I think I answered your questions, you just didn't like the answers. Just like Covenantee.

 

[The Light]

False witness.

A loser's last resort.

You call a child of the King a loser. Much to learn you have.

 

[covenantee]

I think I answered your questions, you just didn't like the answers. Just like Covenantee.

Awaiting that quote and link.

Prove that you're not a loser.

 

[covenantee]

You call a child of the King a loser. Much to learn you have.

A child of the King doesn't bear false witness.

A loser does.

 

[The Light]

A child of the King doesn't bear false witness.

A loser does.

When the name calling happens it is the fruit of defeat.

It always ends the same.

 

[covenantee]

When the name calling happens it is the fruit of defeat.

It always ends the same.

The name fits.

So wear it.

Loser.

Bearer of false witness.

 

[The Light]

The name fits.

So wear it.

Loser.

Bearer of false witness.

Matthew 7:16.

 

[covenantee]

Matthew 7:16.

Losers are known by their fruit of false witness.

Matthew 19
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

 

[Timtofly]

Lazarus was only a Preview of what is to Come and gives us the clear understanding of thru WHOM the Resurrection will occur.

The point is that it has occurred, not will occur. Jesus and those in the grave are not still in the grave. No one is, when it comes to a future resurrection you are defining. There is no Resurrection that has to happen preventing the rapture and Second Coming.

You are waiting for something that has already occurred. Jesus was a preview in Acts 1 of being caught up into Paradise.

 

[Timtofly]

As you say, the tribulation is over at the second coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. That is NOT when Jacobs trouble begins, that is when Jacobs trouble is over. The Church is in heaven before the seals are opened.

Jacob's trouble is the first 6 Trumpets. The wrath comes later with the 7 vials.

You have no verse claiming the Trumpets are God's wrath.

"And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne."

"And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth."

The Trumpets are not the vials.

"And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand. And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake."

God's grace and the prayers of the saints are still at work during the Trumpets.

"they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

Yes, the church was removed at the Second Coming, but not prior to the Second Coming. The gathering of the final harvest happens after Jesus and the angels are on the earth. That is the Second Coming, when Jesus and the angels come to the earth. The judgment is the removal of souls from Adam's dead corruptible flesh. The final harvest is that judgment and Jacob's trouble. One cannot start judgment until Jesus is sitting in judgment in Jerusalem.

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations."

That is not the wrath of God. That is the judgment called Jacob's trouble.

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

The sheep will be all of Israel that is saved. The goats are those removed, so that all of Israel can be saved. The removal of goats is still getting rid of the branches that do not belong. Even branches that are not on the tree have to be removed from the earth. That is why it is Jacob's Trouble. Not all of Jacob will make it, while at the same time all of Israel will make it. That is the firstfruits of the Millennial Kingdom.

"For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

That is when the blindness in part is removed and Jacob is restored as Israel. The separation of the sheep from the goats.

"to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

Jesus has to baptize the earth in fire, and remove all the sin from the earth. That process takes time, during the Trumpets and Thunders. The physical act of Messiah and the Lamb started the process at the first coming. The Second Coming as Prince will complete the restoration of Israel. Jesus told them He would be on the earth at the Second Coming. Yet no one seems to accept the point that Jesus is on the earth during the Trumpets and Thunders. Why is that?

Jacob's trouble is over when the sheep are safe, and the goats are all cast into the LOF. And Jesus will be sitting in Judgment as part of that process. The church leaves at the Second Coming, because the fulness of the Gentiles is complete, and the church is removed first.

The Church has been leaving earth for over 1993 years. Of course the majority have arrived in Paradise prior to the seals being opened. A multitude that cannot be numbered has come out of great tribulation since 30AD.

The Seals have nothing to do with Israel nor Jacob's trouble. The Seals deal with the church as the church deals with apostasy prior to the Day of the Lord. The foolish virgins are not Israel while the wise virgins are the church. The foolish church members are the apostate church. Church meaning those who are church in name only, not in spirit and in truth. Thus the parable of some being prepared with oil, and others not prepared.

The 144k of Israel are not even sealed, a mark of being redeemed, until after the church is gone. If they had been part of the church, they would not even be on the earth when they are sealed. They are alive on the earth, after the Second Coming, and sealed, redeemed and set apart, before the 7th Seal is opened. They remain on the earth with Jesus as King even until the 7th Trumpet sounds.

I have pointed out that the 144k are like Noah who go through the trouble in safety. The church was removed way before Noah entered the ark. The Flood took everyone away, even the ark was taken away, but eventually came back to the earth. Then those 8 became the nations that would subdue the earth once again. The church does not return to subdue the earth. The 144k, the sheep, and the wheat are those typified by Noah and the ark who return to subdue the earth as the firstfruits of the Millennial Kingdom.

 

[The Light]

Jacob's trouble is the first 6 Trumpets.

No. Jacob's trouble is the 1st 5 seals and ends with Jesus coming immediately after the tribulation at the 6th seal.

The wrath comes later with the 7 vials.

You have no verse claiming the Trumpets are God's wrath.

There are so many ways to prove that the trumpets are Gods wrath, how can you miss them all.

Here's one. Jesus comes at the 6th seal for the gathering from heaven and earth. Then the wrath of God begins.

Rev 6
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Here we see that the gathering which occurs at the 6th seal, is just before the day of the Lord.
2 Thes 2
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

"And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne."

"And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth."

The Trumpets are not the vials.

The trumpets and vials occur in the timeframe. Both are in the timeframe of the wrath of God.

How do we know that? Because Christ has set up His kingdom on earth when the 7th trumpet sounds.

Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

"And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand. And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake."

God's grace and the prayers of the saints are still at work during the Trumpets.

The prayers came and the censer was filled with fire from the altar................wrath is getting ready to begin.

"they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

In Rev 6, during the 5th seal, they are told to rest until the great tribulation is complete. Then Jesus comes at the 6th seal after the tribulation for a harvest. Then the wrath of God begins.

You want to see it again? Here is a different view of the Great Tribulation in Revelation 14

Revelation 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Then Jesus comes for a harvest seen here. This is the same coming of Jesus that you see at the 6th seal immediately after the tribulation. Then the wrath of God begins when the vials of wrath are cast to the earth.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

Yes, the church was removed at the Second Coming, but not prior to the Second Coming.

No. The Church is removed before the seals are opened. The 7 seals are the 70th week of Daniel. That is why you see elders with crowns in Rev 4 and kings and priest before the throne in Rev 5

The gathering of the final harvest happens after Jesus and the angels are on the earth.

Absolutely not. The gathering takes place at the 6th seal immediately after the tribulation and BEFORE wrath. When Jesus comes at the 6th seal, it is the same coming that is shown in Matthew 24: 29-31. It is also the same coming that is shown in the harvest of Rev 14. This is the second coming............NOT THE SECOND ADVENT when Jesus sets up His kingdom on the earth. That happens at the end wrath at the 7th trumpet.

That is the Second Coming, when Jesus and the angels come to the earth. The judgment is the removal of souls from Adam's dead corruptible flesh. The final harvest is that judgment and Jacob's trouble. One cannot start judgment until Jesus is sitting in judgment in Jerusalem.

Judgement happens at the 7th trumpet which is the end of wrath.

Revelation 11
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations."

That is not the wrath of God. That is the judgment called Jacob's trouble.

No sir. Jacobs trouble is the 1st 5 seals. It ends and Jesus then comes at the 6th seal for a harvest, because the wrath of God is about to begin. It is the 12 tribes across the earth that are being harvested......those that are still alive. That is why there are 144,000 first fruits as they are first fruits of the second harvest. The Church is the first harvest. Then God open the eyes of the seed of the woman. Only the nation of Israel, those that flee to a place of protection and unbelievers will be on earth during the 1 year wrath of God.

Jesus told them He would be on the earth at the Second Coming. Yet no one seems to accept the point that Jesus is on the earth during the Trumpets and Thunders. Why is that?

I am not aware of any verse that says that Jesus will be on earth at the second coming. Jesus remains in the clouds at the second coming.
Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

I accept that Jesus is on earth during the during the thunders and the 7th trumpet as Armageddon happens and then Jesus sets up His kingdom on earth. Wrath is OVER. What you see in the vials occurs in the same timeframe as the trumpets.

 

[The Light]

Jacob's trouble is over when the sheep are safe, and the goats are all cast into the LOF. And Jesus will be sitting in Judgment as part of that process. The church leaves at the Second Coming, because the fulness of the Gentiles is complete, and the church is removed first.

The Church has been leaving earth for over 1993 years. Of course the majority have arrived in Paradise prior to the seals being opened. A multitude that cannot be numbered has come out of great tribulation since 30AD.

The Seals have nothing to do with Israel nor Jacob's trouble. The Seals deal with the church as the church deals with apostasy prior to the Day of the Lord. The foolish virgins are not Israel while the wise virgins are the church. The foolish church members are the apostate church. Church meaning those who are church in name only, not in spirit and in truth. Thus the parable of some being prepared with oil, and others not prepared.

The Church is in heaven before the seals are opened. The seals are the final week of years when God deals with Israel. Jacobs trouble is over when the tribulation (5th seal) is over. Then Jesus returns at the 6th seal for the harvest. Then wrath begins after the 7th seal is opened and the trumpets begin.

The 144k of Israel are not even sealed, a mark of being redeemed, until after the church is gone.

Correct. But the Church is gone before the seals are opened. Additionally, we can prove that the 144,000 are sealed before the 5th seal. No question about it. They are sealed before the 5th seal.

If they had been part of the church, they would not even be on the earth when they are sealed. They are alive on the earth, after the Second Coming, and sealed, redeemed and set apart, before the 7th Seal is opened. They remain on the earth with Jesus as King even until the 7th Trumpet sounds.

They are not part of the Church, as in, they are not part of the 1st harvest. They are the first fruits of the second harvest.

They are not alive on earth after the second coming. The second coming is the harvest. They are first fruits of this harvest.

I have pointed out that the 144k are like Noah who go through the trouble in safety.

The 144,000 are likely killed. They are in heaven BEFORE the 5th seal. You have to understand what you are reading.

The church was removed way before Noah entered the ark.

No. The Church enters the ark on the first day of the final week, meaning the Church enters the ark in the first year of the final week but before the seals are opened.

The Flood took everyone away, even the ark was taken away, but eventually came back to the earth. Then those 8 became the nations that would subdue the earth once again. The church does not return to subdue the earth. The 144k, the sheep, and the wheat are those typified by Noah and the ark who return to subdue the earth as the firstfruits of the Millennial Kingdom.

Noah enters the ark on the first day of the 7 days, just as the Church will enter the ark in the 1st year of the 7 years. If you are looking at the harvest that occurs at the 6th seal you should be looking at the days of Lot. The very day Lot left Sodom destruction comes, even as the year that Jesus comes for the gathering destruction will come. Each day is a year.

Those 144,000 first fruits have nothing to do with the millennial kingdom. Those 1st fruits are in heaven for the marriage supper which occurs during the 1 year wrath of God. The Church will also be at the marriage supper as will the seed of the woman, the 12 tribes that are gathered at the 6th seal.

 

[Timtofly]

I've untwisted your twist. Again:

Israel is not prevented from coming to Christ, to which multitudes of Jews who have received Him testify.

No one denied them, and no one can deny them, a place at the Cross.

They are therefore not replaced.

It is not called peopleology. It is called theology. No one has replaced people with other people. It is called theology, because you have replaced the ethnic relationship of Israel with your own theological misunderstanding of God's Word.

The tree is the church. The church was not a wild branch grafted into the church. Ethnicity always mattered. You claim ethnicity will never matter again. You deny a future thousand year reign of Christ on the earth, when that ethnicity will matter once more.

Many churches since 30AD have been cut off and cast aside just like the natural branches, and no longer part of the church. Even wild branches are not permanent. All of the church are not the church either. Israel was not the church, but natural branches compared to wild and not natural branches. Since the Cross, Israel has to be grafted in equal to the wild branches grafted in.

You seem to claim there is no more ethnicity. Yet there would still be natural branches and wild branches. The concept of natural and wild branches never stopped.

Your theology is married to Satan's deception of so called science that declares there is no longer ethnicities period. You swap your spiritual DNA, whatever that is according to scientific theology, with normal DNA that God keeps a record of, as God is omniscient. Why would God have to explain DNA at all in Scripture? Why do you replace normal DNA that you introduced into your theology with your made up spiritual DNA?

It is bad enough using the term ethnicity. Does God need DNA to verify who the 144k are? If God is the Potter, don't you think those vessels were already being prepared for over 3,000 years?

 

[covenantee]

It is not called peopleology. It is called theology. No one has replaced people with other people. It is called theology, because you have replaced the ethnic relationship of Israel with your own theological misunderstanding of God's Word.

The tree is the church. The church was not a wild branch grafted into the church. Ethnicity always mattered. You claim ethnicity will never matter again. You deny a future thousand year reign of Christ on the earth, when that ethnicity will matter once more.

Many churches since 30AD have been cut off and cast aside just like the natural branches, and no longer part of the church. Even wild branches are not permanent. All of the church are not the church either. Israel was not the church, but natural branches compared to wild and not natural branches. Since the Cross, Israel has to be grafted in equal to the wild branches grafted in.

You seem to claim there is no more ethnicity. Yet there would still be natural branches and wild branches. The concept of natural and wild branches never stopped.

Your theology is married to Satan's deception of so called science that declares there is no longer ethnicities period. You swap your spiritual DNA, whatever that is according to scientific theology, with normal DNA that God keeps a record of, as God is omniscient. Why would God have to explain DNA at all in Scripture? Why do you replace normal DNA that you introduced into your theology with your made up spiritual DNA?

It is bad enough using the term ethnicity. Does God need DNA to verify who the 144k are? If God is the Potter, don't you think those vessels were already being prepared for over 3,000 years?

Yours is called ideology.

Still on the same hallucinogen, I see.

As usual, not one whit of Scripture.

Argue with Paul.

Romans 10:12
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Galatians 5:6
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Galatians 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

 

[Timtofly]

More imagination without verification of your opinion from the Scripture. I don't believe Stephen and all vast numbers of other Christians martyred for faith would agree the tribulation they endured was anything less than GREAT!

Because it was called Jacob's trouble. Jeremiah 30:7

"Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it."

Daniel 12:1

"there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered."

Romans 11:25-27

"that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

We know that Jacob has not been delivered, because the current nation of Israel is still wicked and run by sinners. The whole earth still groans under the punishment of sin. Sin has not been removed through the baptism of fire. 2 Peter 3:10-11

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved."

All of earth's works will be burned up except those of silver and gold done for God's purposes. That is the point of Matthew 25:37-40

"Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

This has nothing to do with salvation and the second birth. This has everything to do with the baptism of fire and who is delivered out of their sin, by God removing the wood, hay, and stubble and leaving the gold and silver.

"There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

 

[Timtofly]

Yours is called ideology.

Still on the same hallucinogen, I see.

As usual, not one whit of Scripture.

Argue with Paul.

Romans 10:12
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Galatians 5:6
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Galatians 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Paul is talking about the fulness of the Gentiles. Your point is concerning the Second Coming and not finding the nation of Israel on earth.

You are changing those verses with your theological replacement. You played it safe and only attacked the poster instead of given any solid explanation of your own theology.

 

[covenantee]

Paul is talking about the fulness of the Gentiles. Your point is concerning the Second Coming and not finding the nation of Israel on earth.

You are changing those verses with your theological replacement. You played it safe and only attacked the poster instead of given any solid explanation of your own theology.

Complete gibberish.

Thanksgiving for the guffaws.

 

[rwb]

Complete gibberish.

Thanksgiving for the guffaws.

I know! I've come to the point where I rarely bother responding to his posts because they are so far out there! I can scarcely make out what direction this one will go in next. But I doubt it will be a direction we might likely recognize.