Christ's sinless Head with a sinful body?

[Ghada]

Revelation 3 warns the Laodiceans they are "naked".
Revelation 16 says if you are "naked" you will be ashamed.
Revelation 19 says the "clothing" is good deeds.

Exactly. We are to put on Christ and be clothed with Him by doing His word and will of righteousness in life.

Basically what it all comes down to is a delusional idea that our soul is not our life we live, and that the soul is somehow distinct and separate from how we live. They take the fact that our immortal souls are not our natural bodies, and say our souls have nothing to do with the lives we live with our bodies.

The soul of a man is the life we live. That's why Jesus said He is the way, the truth, and the life. His soul is seen in the life He lives. And the life He lives is the exact image of the Father in heaven.

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

When we see the life we live, we see our own souls. Even as the tree is know by it's fruit, so is our soul is known expressly by our life.

Hypocrites indoctrinate themselves and others, into believing our soul is not known by the life we live. And so, while their life is sinful, their soul is uncondemned. They seriously try to tell the Father, that He cannot judge their souls by their works and manner of life.

As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Christian sinners teach they still must sin from time to time, and so they change 'all manner' to only 'some manners'.

If we correct them like this from the Bible long enough, instead of them repenting, they become full of anger and hatred toward the correction. It was the same when Cain talked with Abel for a bit, and then just killed him.

The reason for this is simple: the unrepentant Christian sinners invest their soul and conscience into their justifying doctrine alone. By their own testimony of continued ungodliness, they can't have any justification and conscience for how they live. All their hopes and dreams after the grave are solely wrapped up in their personal faith of indoctrination alone. If their justifying doctrine is ever corrected, then it is their very soul and conscience being attacked. That's why in the end they always forsake debating about the Bible, and make it personal about themselves.

Some have even said there should not be any contradiction nor debate allowed, when they say something is so. God Himself can't talk to them, because His words are not allowed to affect them in how they actually live.

I'm not saying I understand all of these things, but it really seems like we must walk after the Spirit to qualify as abiding in Christ and have no condemnation. If we sin, God forgives, yes, but it seems good deeds are one of the qualifications for abiding in Christ. The other is faith, yes, but I think after faith, works done in faith are expected. If not, you will be naked, and you will be ashamed at His appearance, because you were not abiding in Him, but led away by idolatry (1 Jn 5:21).

Just replace the 'seems' with 'the Bible says', and you preach God's words perfectly. And that is not at all so hard, because it's really just repeating them coherently and satisfactorily for any child to understand them.

 

[Ghada]

If I am wrong, I am wrong, but show me a better interpretation of these things if you have one.

Others will show you a different interpretation from the willful sinners stand point. Not me.

There is no 'better' interpretation of the Bible than the words themselves. The Bible interprets itself, and I have found that God has all His words written in just such a way, so as to ensnare the crafty in their own craftiness.

There are also certain verses of the Bible that stand alone and can have no other meaning than what they say. I call them proving stones that test the faith of the reader, by making an end of any argument about Bible teaching. One such is the Word was God. And yet we see volumes of so-called Bible scholars trying to say the Word was not God. They will twist any verse of the Bible, go to the Greek and Hebrew, and even argue manuscripts to do so. And yet, we still have the Bible saying the Word was God.

So it is in James 2. Once we read faith without works is dead, being alone, how can any reasonable reader, let alone professed believer, try to say the Bible teaches being saved and justified by faith alone? Only unbelievers can teach such things that plainly say the very opposite of what the Bible says. These Christian sinners do not believe all the words of the Bible. And they infact treat the Bible worse than honest unbelievers. An honest unbeliever may only read the Bible as just another book combining history, wisdom, spirituality, justice, religion, and theology, but at least they don't try to change it to say something else.

Any honest reader of the Bible, including unbelievers in the God of the Bible, will read James 2 and either agree with it or not and plainly sway so. They would not even think to try and change the Authors own words, in order to say He is actually teaching the very opposite of His own words. No other author and book on earth is so abused like the true God and His Bible. And it's done mostly by sinful Christians. that want to change what the Author is plainly saying into something else. They want to make the Author to agree with themselves and what their own minds say must be so.

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

The conclusion is simple. There are some Christian sinners, that refuse to believe their own sinning is just as condemned as any sinner of the world. And so they willingly rewrite certain verses of the Bible to teach the opposite of those words. It is always done to keep their soul and conscience covered from anything they may do at the time.

If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.

Jesus is not saying that sinners have no sin, but only that sinners rejecting His words have no more doctrinal cloke to cover their sinning. They can certainly keep trying to sew their doctrine back together and keep it in tact, whenever His words are repeated to them. But that is only for now. In the grave all such word games end, and the Father only judges how we live.

And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

 

[Earburner]

The Bible declares there is no sin in the man Christ Jesus, which must include His own body members, else the Head be separated from His body, and His body be decapitated from the Head.

The Christian gospel of unrepented sinners with a Christ whose body is full of sinful members, is a gospel separated the sinless Head Jesus Christ.

For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

Such Christian sinners that say they shall have, or must have, or it is impossible not to have sin in them, also have for themselves a gospel and head, that is more than glad to have sin in him and his own body.

I say, let's dispense with all the doctrinal airs and say it like it is: There is no sin in the man Christ Jesus, which includes His own body.

That is not only a Biblical fact, but a huge duh! for any sensible person, that does not believe in headless bodies nor horsemen. Nor in a Frankenstein monster with a different head sewn onto another body.

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,

This is not talking about sinful members of a body on earth, that is separated by sin from the sinless Head in heaven, until resurrected into that Head Christ Jesus after the grave.

The man and Head Christ Jesus has His body of His flesh and of His bones, whose only members are repented Christian saints. Only them that now have the sins of the world washed and taken away from our hearts and lives, are members of the body of Jesus Christ, in whom is no sin.

Some Christians also preach that being sons of God pure and newborn as His Son Jesus, with all things now being of God, and nothing of sin and Satan remaining in them, does not happen until after the grave.

Unfortunately then, in the Bible there is no repenting of sinning granted in the grave, but only judgment of our works we lived by unto the end.

If Christians sinners want to prophecy their own fate of sinful dead works unto death, and in the meantime congregate as sinful members of a body of sin on earth, then that is their right as free will creatures created by God.

But claiming to also be sinful members of the sinless Head Jesus Christ, in whom is no sin, makes no sense on earth, whether spiritual or religious. The Spirit of Christ and of the truth of God, is not dysfunctionally operating Jesus' way sinlessly in the mind and Head of Christ, while operating the world's way sinfully in His own body members.

The Head Jesus Christ having no sin does not have a worldly body with sin. The only head for a sinful worldly body is the head of this world, that does certainly have sin in him.

There is no controversy over the bodies of Christ collectively (the body of Christ), who are born again of God's Holy Spirit, of whom are made to be NEW creatures, aka a NEW creation IN Christ Jesus.
It's all about understanding the difference of being sin-less, as opossed to being sin-free.
Therefore, the criteria for both is a state of being.

The former is granted forgiveness through belief in the shed blood of Christ, causing one to rest and receive God's forgiveness as a NEW creature, A NEW CREATION by God Himself.

The latter is achieving forgiveness by sheer human effort, causing one to work and earn God's forgiveness, finding no rest as an OLD creature, while REMODELING one's ownself.

 

[ScottA]

Your timelessness of time, where God does the same thing over and over again through time is metaphysical philosophy, not Bible truth.

Is it "my" timelessness of time when you read a news article after the fact? Or what time is it when the clock strikes midnight in a movie--actually? And what is time to the events of a book that was written beforehand?

You kid yourself and consider your own limited understanding more than the actual things of scripture which reveal a man as a mere "image" which was before the foundation of the world--before time.

The Bible always has a verse to debunk theory and philosophy of men. I have found that is found most with Christians that want to indoctrinate themselves into heaven while sinning.

I wasn't speaking "theory and philosophy"-- but that is exactly what those like yourself do who do not actually know from God, but speculate.

 

[Ghada]

I haven't said that, or anything resembling that. So why are you saying this as though I had?

Much love!

You teach you have sin in your tissues and bones. It's the old sinners gambit that leads straight to having your body somehow responsible for, or at least sharing responsibility for your soul sinning with it.

 

[marks]

You teach you have sin in your tissues and bones. It's the old sinners gambit that leads straight to having your body somehow responsible for, or at least sharing responsibility for your soul sinning with it.

You don't need to bother with me. I know about you. I'm not interested.

Much love!

 

[Ghada]

Better still is to realize that Jesus has all your sin paid for with His Blood and death 2000 yrs ago, if you are born again.

Jesus didn't pay for any man's sinning, so that any man can sin without having to pay for it.

Jesus never died for any man's sinning, so that no man dies for his sinning.

The wages of sinning is still death of the soul separated from God.

If Jesus died for all men's sinning and paid the wage of death for it, then there would be no more wages of death.

For the wages of sin is death;

After Jesus' death by the hands of sinners, the wages of any man's sinning is still death.

Your personal gospel of claiming to no more be condemned for your sinning and not paying the common price of separation from God by sinning, is the reason the world mocks the cross and grace of God.

Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.


The same is till going on today with the law and blood of the Lamb through you. I can't stop you from making a mockery of the blood and death of Jesus Christ, but I sure can expose and rebuke you for it.

 

[Ghada]

If a person sees the believer as a sinner, then that is because

They are sinning.

they dont understand that the Son/Daughter of God is not your body or your mind.

Nor your soul, while lusting with the mind and sinning with the body.

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works.

Your soul separation theology is equally mockable by mature adults of judgment.

For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

The body and the spirit of the mind is also God's. That body will be resurrected unto life, and the spirit made perfect.

To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Although your gospel has nothing to do with the Bible, it continues to be interested to see just how much Bible you can contradict, while claiming to be a believer in the Bible and naming the name of Christ. Your abundance of gross errors about the Bible, make a a good training ground for exposing them by the Bible.

What most readers of the Bible don't understand is your perversions of it. I do all too well, because I've been trained by you in it.

Thanks.

 

[Ghada]

Its the Born again spirit that is "in Christ" and One with God", that is the "CHRISTian".
And There is no sin found there.

You mean God is 'blind' to it in heaven, while all men see it on earth. Other Christians preach their blind Christ just as you. They say their 'heart' is still good, even though their life says otherwise.

There is no sin found, only where there is no sinning done.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Also, sin is defined by the Law.
Christ and God are not under the Law, and all the born again are "in Christ" and "one with God".

And now Christ and God don't keep their own law and are transgressors of their own law.

Keep it up, you're on a role.

Next you're going to say the only ones sinning against God, are those keeping the law of God and doing His word.

For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

That is Paul's gospel now.

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

That is James' gospel now.

Talk about the transgressors condemning the righteous.

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

See....just remove the law, and your deeds can't be defined or JUDGED as sin.

Well golly whiz bang Frank! Now why don't the righteous ever think of that?? Just get rid of God's law altogether, and shazam! no more sin while being an enemy of God by works.

No more need to endure temptation nor resist the devil at all. Just forget the law and do whatever we believe to do, so long as we believe it.

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Oh man. There goes that pesky Bible again. Ruining perfectly good delusion.

 

[Ghada]

= "Christ is the END OF THE LAW....for righteousness, to everyone who believes"..

The end of the law is righteousness. And salvation is the end of faith. And charity is the end of the commandment. And the end of holiness is everlasting life. And the end of God's oath is peace.

And the end of a solid foundation is a lasting house. And the end of the foundation of Christ is the church built by Jesus. And the end of the beginning is Christ Jesus.

By way of self-indoctrination, you end for yourself what produces the result, and the result fails for you alone.

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

By 'ending' the law of God for yourself, you also end the faith, the commandment, the holiness, the oath, the foundation and beginning of Jesus Christ, for yourself.

You have literally fulfilled the Scripture and crucified the Christ of the Bible to yourself.

And I have seen it in all your writings. Your lone faith, your commandment, your righteousness, your foundation, and your beginning and ending is always contrary to the Bible.

And in this case, you make an end to any sense of the Bible for yourself.

You literally have ended the law of Christ for yourself for the express purpose of declaring yourself clean, no matter what you are doing at the time.

Such is the way of an adulterous woman; she eateth, and wipeth her mouth, and saith, I have done no wickedness.

Talk about antinomianism on steroids. At least your honest about it. You don't even bother giving lip service to the law of God, like your lukewarm fellows do.

 

[Ghada]

Q.) "behold are you saying that i can sin all i want, and there is no "sowing and reaping".

Read what i wrote, again., as that is the natural mind question,

Not with me. I am well aware of the spiritual nature of the doctrinally dysfunctional. The Bible calls it a spirit of error.

You are saying your body can sin all it wants with full knowledge of the mind, but your spirit is still clean. You will still sow the night and reap the morning after like all people on earth. You just tell indoctrinate yourself into thinking you do not reap the spiritual darkness and death by it.

You convince yourself of it by ending your conscience to the law of Christ, so that your bodily works of the flesh do not condemn your soul. You have turned on your own light within, and do not allow any conviction of the Spirit of God for your sinning any more.

But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

You do away with the law of Christ pertaining to your flesh, and claim the law of the Spirit pertaining to your soul.

You have effectively insulated your soul and spirit from your own mind and body.

Psychiatry calls it split personality disorder. The effectiveness of it though ends in the grave.

The Father in the end will judged every man by our body's works and deeds, not by his indoctrination. The end of our lives on earth is judgment of our lives. You can end the Father's law for yourself unto the grave. But no man can end His judgment after the grave according to His law and word.

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Ghada]

"God hath made Jesus to be sin for us"...

Jesus is not nor ever was sin, nor a sinner, who never sinned and knew no sin unto death on the cross.

All men make themselves sin to God by sinning against Him. Jesus never sinned nor was a sinner nor ever had sin on earth.

Jesus was made to be sin and a sinful transgressor to man, but the will of God in submitting to the injustice and unrighteousness of man in the garden, the temple, the Roman court, and the cross.

And so He willingly without sinning nor railing nor reviling against them, bore in His own body the unjust marks and bruises of scourging and crucifixion.

Jesus was the consenting Lamb of God to the sins done to Him and His body by sinful men. And not only by them, but by all who have sinned against Him.

All of ii?

Not all of any man's sin, but only all of the sinning done to His body at the time.

A man's sin is still his own, when sinning against God, and the wages of sinning is still death to the man's soul separated from God. The soul that sinneth, it shall still die.

You do away with the law of Christ from yourself, but so long as you do not away with your sinful works of flesh, then you can only think you also do away with God's judgment and condemnation for your works, for a season.

Face it. All your pseudo-spiritual indoctrination aside, you still have to repent of sinning like all men, in order to believe Jesus unto His righteousness and salvation by confession His faith from the heart.

"Blood bought'.
The Blood of Jesus, is God's blood.......

And it is tread by every one naming His name while sinning against His will.

as Jesus is God "in the Flesh".
This is why the blood of Jesus is an Eternal Sacrifice for sin.

Because of sin, He made Himself a sacrifice to sinning men.

His blood is for washing always all your sin, not covering your sinning as that of a bull or

 

[The Learner]

There have always been cults, such as the Christadelphians, that teach Jesus had a sin nature. Did Jesus Have a Sin Nature? - Blog - Eternal Perspective Ministries

Human Nature of Christ

www.andrews.edu

 

[The Learner]

IF Jesus had a sin nature, then he could not be a lamb without blemish.

 

[Ghada]

I deny none of that. The problem is that you have denied that those saved do not continue in the flesh to sin..

Then why do I get so much flak from Christians sinners, when I say so?

.which is not represented by what Jesus did (by example) between rising from the dead and ascending, during which time He was not guilty of any sin

At that time only? Did He sin any time before that?

but still showed the signs of sin in His flesh.

True. The sinning done to His body by sinful men, is still in His resurrected flesh and bones, and always will be called the Lamb of God.

And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

No man will ever be allowed to forget what the Son did on our behalf on the cross.

The same is true of us who are "in Him"-- we are crucified, dead to sin, born again of the spirit of God, but continue to carry the signs of sin in our flesh

Our mortal flesh is also healed and quickened by the Spirit.

until we also ascend to the Father.

You mean to the Son in the air, don't you? I'm thinking you're having a little too much grandeur in your imaginations.

Here your timing is off. Jesus did not "revive" on the cross. He died and rose/revived from the dead the third day.

For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

This is when His dead body revived.

However He Himself revived with the Spirit, when the Spirit came to Him on the cross, after having forsaken Him for a season. We know this because He went by the Spirit from the cross into hell, while His body remained dead on the cross.

By the Spirit, the Son willing went to the cross and also by will left His body and went from the cross into hell.

How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

When the Spirit forsook Him on the cross, is when He said "I thirst". When the Spirit came again to Him on the cross, He said "It is finished".

Unlike sinning Samson, He that knew no sin, knew when the Spirit left Him and came again to Him.

He also raised His own body from the dead by that same Spirit of God.

Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

 

[Ghada]

There have always been cults, such as the Christadelphians, that teach Jesus had a sin nature. Did Jesus Have a Sin Nature? - Blog - Eternal Perspective Ministries

Human Nature of Christ

www.andrews.edu

Carnal minded Christians teach a sin nature of man, such as lust and sin lurking around in the tissues and blood pump. They think sin and righteousness have something to do with man's seed. They make up a myth about the first man choosing to sin against God, also somehow put that sin into His seed to pass on to his offspring.

It's the Marvel's myth of 'The Adamic Race'.

All sin and righteousness are only spiritual in nature. This is why Lucifer lusted with the heart, and other angels sinned with him. All angels are made spirits, not of flesh and blood. It's also why other natural creatures neither sin nor do righteousness. It has nothing to do with natural flesh and blood made by Christ in the beginning and today.

Only man created in God's image, who is Spirit, has power to do good or evil.

Some Christians that teach this sin in the flesh stuff, try to exempt Jesus' own body from being like that of all sinful men.

And so they must disbelieve that Jesus' body was made of the seed of David and Abraham in the womb of Mary. Which confirms the prophecy of the virgin birth was for a sign, not to avoid the seed of man in the virgin's flesh.

It's end conclusion also denies Jesus Christ is come in the flesh of man.

 

[ScottA]

Then why do I get so much flak from Christians sinners, when I say so?

What flak, that they are still saved in spite of the struggle? That is what Paul, who was saved on the road to Damascus, clarified was a fact of "we who are alive and remain" in the world in the flesh while having been also born again of the spirit of God.

At that time only? Did He sin any time before that?

Are you not getting the chronology? The world was in darkness of sin, Jesus came as a light into darkness, took sin upon himself, died defeating sin and death, rose the third day and continued to carry the signs of sin in his flesh for forty days (representing a lifetime) until he ascended leaving his body to the church--which is to say he did not ascend with his flesh as many wrongly believe (that is not what the angel said, which was that he would return in "like manner" meaning the like manner of the Spirit, not the like manner of the flesh).

Our mortal flesh is also healed and quickened by the Spirit.

Don't misunderstand, that does not mean the flesh inherits or ascends into the kingdom of God. What that actually means, is to be understood--not as "healed and quickened" as if the flesh is glorified, but rather as "forgiven", and "set free" of the flesh, and given new life in the Spirit...in spite of the flesh.

You mean to the Son in the air, don't you? I'm thinking you're having a little too much grandeur in your imaginations.

You are thinking as a man. "Air" in this case means within "the firmament" that is above the earth. But the act is not one of this world, but of God and the kingdom of God. But again, don't misunderstand, the "kingdom of God is within" having no real limitation by physical location. The elevation is not physical, but only describe as such in parable.

For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

This is when His dead body revived.

However He Himself revived with the Spirit, when the Spirit came to Him on the cross, after having forsaken Him for a season. We know this because He went by the Spirit from the cross into hell, while His body remained dead on the cross.

By the Spirit, the Son willing went to the cross and also by will left His body and went from the cross into hell.

How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

When the Spirit forsook Him on the cross, is when He said "I thirst". When the Spirit came again to Him on the cross, He said "It is finished".

Unlike sinning Samson, He that knew no sin, knew when the Spirit left Him and came again to Him.

He also raised His own body from the dead by that same Spirit of God.

Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

The Lamb of God was both slain and revived before the foundation of the world. As for the worldly enactment, He was filled (revived) with the Holy Spirit at the Jordan river, died to the flesh on the cross, and returned to the Father after forty days (a lifetime). As are we who make up His body.

 

[Ghada]

There is no controversy over the bodies of Christ collectively (the body of Christ), who are born again of God's Holy Spirit, of whom are made to be NEW creatures, aka a NEW creation IN Christ Jesus.
It's all about understanding the difference of being sin-less, as opossed to being sin-free.

True. Only Jesus was sinless in life, for He never sinned.

And only those in Christ Jesus are free from sinning.

Therefore, the criteria for both is a state of being.

Which is not separate from the state of doing.

As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

The former is granted forgiveness through belief in the shed blood of Christ, causing one to rest and receive God's forgiveness as a NEW creature, A NEW CREATION by God Himself.

True, with all things now being of God and nothing of the devil.

Let's not cut off verses of the Bible. And certainly let us not try and separate from what we are 'being' from what we are doing.

He that is committing sin is of the devil; for the devil is sinning from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

The one sinning are being children of the devil and not being in the body of Christ, in whom is no sinning.

The latter is achieving forgiveness by sheer human effort, causing one to work and earn God's forgiveness, finding no rest as an OLD creature, while REMODELING one's ownself.

By the latter you must mean unrepented sinners of Christian religion.

This must be why I did not agree with your 'sin-free' tag. Repented saints in Christ's bodies are free from sinning and have no sin, even as there is no sin in Him.

Unlike Him, Who knew no sin, we once knew sin by sinning, But now we are like Him knowing no sin and not sinning.

That is what Bible Christiani means. It was meant by the world as derogatory, but Jesus took the name for His own people as an honor.

Little Christs. Jesus Christ like.

 

[Ghada]

Is it "my" timelessness of time when you read a news article after the fact? Or what time is it when the clock strikes midnight in a movie--actually? And what is time to the events of a book that was written beforehand?

Not written beforehand, but spoken beforehand. Nothing prophesied beforehand was written, until God gave it to holy men to write.

Nothing in the Bible ever says anything was written before the world began. Your metaphysics notwithstanding.

By saying something was written, where no writing was, you write your own book of your own imagination. By saying it's in the Bible, is thus adding your own words to the words of God, that are only written in His Bible.

God has a Bible of His own in the throne room. We see the Lamb of God unsealing all the mysteries of it.

The Spirit of truth guides us into all the truth of the Bible, not into any imagined truth of men, that think they have books written before the Bible.

And the Bible does not teach a timeless recurral of the Lamb being slain all men's lives, until all men repent and believe God unto righteousness and resurrection unto life.

He was the only foreordained chosen man to come into the world and on the earth die once to sin on the cross.

You kid yourself and consider your own limited understanding more than the actual things of scripture

You mean of your metaphysical mystery book of writings before the world began.

which reveal a man as a mere "image" which was before the foundation of the world--before time.

Once again. This is your own book of metaphysics about some creation before the foundation of the created world.

In the Bible, the foundation of heaven earth was before the creation of living creatures on the earth. Which makes sense.

And man was not a mere image of God, before God created and made man in His image.

Your imagery of phantasms before the world began, is fantastic imagination alone. I guess you're an avid reader of Tolkien. He also writes of an imagined beginning before the beginning.

I wasn't speaking "theory and philosophy"-- but that is exactly what those like yourself do who do not actually know from God,

From God in the Bible I know. And from you in your writings I know.

but speculate.

I don't speculate about either. I can accurately know both what is from the Bible and also what is from you. I just read the words and take them at their normal meaning.

I don't try to reimagine the Bible like you, nor do I with your stuff. I believe honest reading is the easiest way to teaching exactly what is written.

And also, the thread topic remains true: There are no sinful members in body of the sinless Head Jesus Christ. There are no sinners in Christ Jesus, in whom is no sinning.

 

[ScottA]

Not written beforehand, but spoken beforehand. Nothing prophesied beforehand was written, until God gave it to holy men to write.

Nothing in the Bible ever says anything was written before the world began. Your metaphysics notwithstanding.

By saying something was written, where no writing was, you write your own book of your own imagination. By saying it's in the Bible, is thus adding your own words to the words of God, that are only written in His Bible.

God has a Bible of His own in the throne room. We see the Lamb of God unsealing all the mysteries of it.

The Spirit of truth guides us into all the truth of the Bible, not into any imagined truth of men, that think they have books written before the Bible.

And the Bible does not teach a timeless recurral of the Lamb being slain all men's lives, until all men repent and believe God unto righteousness and resurrection unto life.

He was the only foreordained chosen man to come into the world and on the earth die once to sin on the cross.

I think I have said it before...but obviously these things need to be taken one at a time, and first things first before moving on to a whole host of issues.

Again...here above you are under the wrong impression. I was not referring to the time of when God inspired men to write the book, but rather when it was conceived as the Word written in the mind of God. So, yes we can make an issue of things like when the Lamb was [actually] slain as if "on the cross" (33AD) is more correct than "before the foundation of the world"-- or we can acknowledge the reality of the cross is merely according to the times of men and is certainly not more correct than without time and according to God who is no respecter of persons, and stop clouding the issue. And likewise these many other issues as well.

So, no, the Book that I was referring to was not written according to the times of men. Looking at all things according to the times of men and this world, is not the proper lens to gauge all things by, of the actual truth in and according to God.

Unless you can concede to some of these foundational truths, we don't have any business moving forward.