What is "OSAS"?

[Marymog]

Can you produce works without the Spirit?

After salvation works follow....which makes sense, if we’ve been birthed in the Spirit?

We work for God through the Spirit within us, do we not?

“For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” Ephesians 2:10. These are works done, not in our own strength and for our own benefit, but by the grace of God and in obedience to Him – led by the Holy Spirit, to God's glory.

Hey Rita,

Yes, one can produce works without the Spirit. An atheist can do good works.

No, that does not make sense. We work towards salvation by doing good deeds until our last day. On that last day if we have not done the good deeds God will repay according to what we have done OR not done (Romans 2:6) because it is by works (+faith) that we are justified (James 2:24).

Yes, Christians work for God through the Spirit in us. And if they continue those works till the end, they will be saved.

 

[PinSeeker]

"Whoever has been born of God does not sin" 1 John 3:9.

In that verse, Scott... well, I'll just quote it and then comment and a question:

"No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God." (1 John 3:9)​

Comment:
One can do something without actually making a practice of it. And then that one, after realizing his/her error, cannot keep on willfully sinning in that way. This is the case with Christians. He's talking about a willfulness, intentional wrongdoing. Previous to being born again of the Spirit, one does not acknowledge sin at all, and therefore makes a practice of it. A Christian ~ one born again of God ~ does not do this. But John is not saying a Christian no longer sins. Which leads me to the question...

Question: If you cite that verse as proof that Christians do not sin, then I would ask how you reconcile that with what John himself says earlier in this very letter:

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:8-9)​

Paul is very clear in Romans 7 that even he still does the things he knows he ought not to do, and still does not do the very things he knows he should do. Because of the fallenness of human nature, we Christians cannot completely avoid sin. That surely does not mean we needn't try to avoid sin; surely we should, for the glory of God. And as Paul says, because we are Christians, because we are in Christ ~ based on our being clothed in His righteousness ~ we are not condemned for sin any more. Disciplined, yes, for sure, but no longer condemned. And forgiven when we confess.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Ritajanice]

Hey Rita,

Yes, one can produce works without the Spirit. An atheist can do good works.

No, that does not make sense. We work towards salvation by doing good deeds until our last day. On that last day if we have not done the good deeds God will repay according to what we have done OR not done (Romans 2:6) because it is by works (+faith) that we are justified (James 2:24).

Yes, Christians work for God through the Spirit in us. And if they continue those works till the end, they will be saved.

I’m not getting into an argument with you.

Your doctrine is false....

You must be Born Again then you are saved....a Born Again is in God’s Kingdom.

Now, those who are in ignorance, sin , darkness, wouldn’t know this....because, they aren’t Born Again.....

Once one is Born Again, works follow...Praise God.

“For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” Ephesians 2:10. These are works done, not in our own strength and for our own benefit, but by the grace of God and in obedience to Him – led by the Holy Spirit, to God's glory.

A Born Again is Alive ...they have a living faith....how would they know this....they have been birthed supernaturally by the Holy Spirit, you know the Holy Spirit does the will of the Father, Through us.

The Holy Spirit is Alive in the spirit of a Born Again....he brought our spirit from death into the life of his Son.

Hence as Jesus taught....you must be Born Again to see the Kingdom of God!

A Born Again is in the world, but they are not of the world....they are in the Kingdom of God.

God is my Father and I’m his child.....yup!!....100%

 

[mailmandan]

Christianity must be a cult then: For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. That would be like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree, and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. Simple!

So if someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith (James 2:14) and not authentic faith. We are made alive together with Christ by grace through faith FIRST then UNTO good works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Good luck trying to converse with her

 

[Ritajanice]

Good luck trying to converse with her

Oh no, I just stand on the word of God....she can believe what she likes....none of my business...I just spread God’s word as I’m being led to do, by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Marymog]

Ah, James. Yes, so it should be very clear that works honored by God are a result of the faith through which we are saved given them by God in His mercy and grace, rather than a means of receiving it, a means of meriting it, because in that case, God's grace would not be grace ~ unmerited favor ~ at all. Faith is not a work of man.

Grace and peace to all.

Hey PinSeeker,

It appears you are referring to Ephesians 2:8-9 as your proof text to back up what your men have taught you. Putting that verse in context, and if you were to continue reading OR your men continued reading, Paul is talking about boasting, circumcision and the Jewish/Gentile distinction. Paul discusses how Jew and Gentiles are united together in the body of Christ and mentions works in connection with boasting, before turning to the whole subject of circumcision and membership in Christ. The works Paul is talking about is not good deeds (feed the hungry, give to the poor, if you have 2 coats etc etc). He is talking about works of the law.

With that said, give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. Give, and it will be given to you. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. Freely you have received; freely give. Whoever is kind to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will reward them for what they have done. Share with the Lord’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality. When we see the hungry or thirsty or a stranger needing clothes or those who are sick and anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.” If we do not do these things Jesus will tell us on our final day, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

For all of us must appear before the judgement seat of Christ, so that each may receive recompense for what has been done in the body, whether good or evil. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

So, can you now see PinSeeker how when we take all of Scripture into consideration how our faith, without works, is a dead faith? Faith is a work because it is by faith that we do good works. If you don't do those things, you are not adhering to the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. What happens if you don't adhere to their teachings?

Keeping it real with Scripture instead of opinions.....Mary

 

[Marymog]

I’m not getting into an argument with you.

Your doctrine is false....

You must be Born Again then you are saved....a Born Again is in God’s Kingdom.

Now, those who are in ignorance, sin , darkness, wouldn’t know this....because, they aren’t Born Again.....

Once one is Born Again, works follow...Praise God.

“For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” Ephesians 2:10. These are works done, not in our own strength and for our own benefit, but by the grace of God and in obedience to Him – led by the Holy Spirit, to God's glory.

A Born Again is Alive ...they have a living faith....how would they know this....they have been birthed supernaturally by the Holy Spirit, you know the Holy Spirit does the will of the Father, Through us.

The Holy Spirit is Alive in the spirit of a Born Again....he brought our spirit from death into the life of his Son.

Hence as Jesus taught....you must be Born Again to see the Kingdom of God!

A Born Again is in the world, but they are not of the world....they are in the Kingdom of God.

God is my Father and I’m his child.....yup!!....100%

View attachment 37711

Lol...MY doctrine, which has been taught for 2,000 years is false but YOUR doctrine, which has been taught for 500 years isn't.....

Yes, Jesus and the Apostles taught that we must be born again thru water and Spirit. When we believe we are baptized with water the Spirit descends upon us.

Nope, you are wrong. Once a person is born again (baptized) works do not necessarily always follow. A person can believe AND be baptized but never do good deeds. It has happened a million times and it will happen a million more times. That is why it is made clear in Scripture if you don't do the good deeds AFTER YOU ARE BAPTIZED (born again) your faith is dead.

Keeping it real with the 2,000-year teaching of Christianity and Scripture to back it up....Mary

 

[Ritajanice]

Lol...MY doctrine, which has been taught for 2,000 years is false but YOUR doctrine, which has been taught for 500 years isn't.....

Yes, Jesus and the Apostles taught that we must be born again thru water and Spirit. When we believe we are baptized with water the Spirit descends upon us.

Nope, you are wrong. Once a person is born again (baptized) works do not necessarily always follow. A person can believe AND be baptized but never do good deeds. It has happened a million times and it will happen a million more times. That is why it is made clear in Scripture if you don't do the good deeds AFTER YOU ARE BAPTIZED (born again) your faith is dead.

Keeping it real with the 2,000-year teaching of Christianity and Scripture to back it up....Mary

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◄ Proverbs 26:4 ►

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Audio Crossref Comm Hebrew Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him

 

[amigo de christo]

Christianity must be a cult then: For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

The doctrines that OSAS over look and disreguard are causing many to fall prey to antoher jesus .
You see , they have to omit , change and twist other doctrine to fit an acryonm .
Dont get cozy just yet , YOU MUST FLEE THE RCC ITSELF . It has led many a soul to perditoin too .
WE GOTTA BIBLE UP and fast . JESUS SAVES . jesus does not save .
You might be wondering why ONE JESUS was captilized and the jesus that dont save AINT .
Cause any jesus that contradicts HIS teachings or the teachings the APOSTLES gave , IT AINT COMING FROM GOD FROM CHRIST
FROM THE SPIRIT . ITS COMING FROM MEN who do decieve and cannot save .
WE GOTTA GET back in those bibles for ourselves . QUIT buying the same line all men buy .
YOu do realize the same line you often give is the same one the protestant realm has given .
THE LIE that one cannot know the truth lest they learn it under THEIR OWN MEN , THEIR OWN SYSTEM .
THAT IS THE LIE and it wont save . From the RCC to the JW to the Mormon to whoever
the lie has been sold , GOD GAVE US , US , US THE TRUTH and lest you learn OUR VERSION from our leaders
YOU CANNOT KNOW THE TRUTH . MEN are not infallible , The popes failed the masses
THE DOCTRINE in the BIBLE is what GOD INSPIRED . WE BETTER LEARN IT FOR OURSELVES and FAST

 

[Eternally Grateful]

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◄ Proverbs 26:4 ►

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Audio Crossref Comm Hebrew Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him

She makes the same mistake the jews made.

They used the history of the Nation and law against Jesus, She uses her history against Christ’s Children

 

[amigo de christo]

View attachment 37714

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◄ Proverbs 26:4 ►

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Audio Crossref Comm Hebrew Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him

Something gave that man a good old fashioned knock the air outta those lungs belly laugh .
I would say it was the all inclusive lie , cause that be one heck of a fable . EXCEPT its nothing to laugh about
ITS GONNA DAMN EVERY SOUL THAT BOUGHT IT and TAUGHT IT . And that dont bring a laugh to me , rather TEARS .
THIS GENERATION is getting duped BIG TIME BY Not just A , BUT THE HARLOT .

 

[amigo de christo]

She makes the same mistake the jews made.

They used the history of the Nation and law against Jesus, She uses her history against Christ’s Children

Never follow a harlot . She is full of disease and staggers blindly on a path that leadeth to perditoin .
NEVER sit under a harlot , for all who do so are subject unto her diseases that she giveth to all who do so .

 

[amigo de christo]

The harlot i speak of is worse than a physical harlot . for at most the disease a man picks up from her
can kill only the body . BUT THE SPIRITUAL DISEASES of THE HARLOT will end in the death of both body and soul in the second death .

 

[PinSeeker]

Hey PinSeeker,

It appears you are referring to Ephesians 2:8-9 as your proof text...

One of them, yes. But you referred to what James said. And I would assert that Paul did not contradict what James said, nor did James contradict what Paul said.

to back up what your men have taught you.

My men... LOL! Paul was a man, yes, and so was James... LOL!

Putting that verse in context...

Ah yes, context. Yours? What you assert that context is?

He is talking about works of the law.

Well, he's talking about serving the Lord. And to your statement here, I would also point out what Paul writes to the Galatians:

"Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith" (Galatians 3:23-26).

So I would agree with you here, but not in the way you... would like me to, I guess... I would argue that he's talking about fulfilling what he elsewhere calls the law of Christ.

"Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ." (Galatians 6:2)​

"For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith..." (Philippians 3:8-9).​

And we know what Christ Himself said:

"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets" (Matthew 22:37-40).​

So, can you now see PinSeeker how when we take all of Scripture into consideration how our faith, without works, is a dead faith?

You mean as if I didn't before now?

Faith is a work because it is by faith that we do good works.

Our faith is the work of God. I'm sure it's been quoted here several times already, but Paul's statement is unequivocal: "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." It is because of the faith that we serve God; He created us for this very purpose, ultimately for His own glory. Making faith out to be a work of man is making God's grace out to be something other than grace. This same Paul says, in Romans 11:6, "if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace."

MailmanDan is absolutely correct about what James says... "If someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith (James 2:14) and not authentic faith."

If you don't do those things, you are not adhering to the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles.

So, yes, we see eye to eye here. But... see above.

Keeping it real with Scripture instead of opinions.....Mary

I appreciate your efforts. I mean, Mary, everybody here says that, but...

Grace and peace to you.

 

[amigo de christo]

View attachment 37714

​

◄ Proverbs 26:4 ►

​

Audio Crossref Comm Hebrew Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him

The harlot and her father come to steal , to destroy and kill .
JESUS CAME TO GIVE LIFE and LIFE ETERNAL . STAY DUG IN THE BIBLE . for all men , that means ALL , are not infallible
and must be tested . IF even peter and barnabas , WHO DID MUCH GOOD , fell for an error , ANY MAN CAN .
STAY IN THE BIBLE RITA . WE GOTTA STAY IN THE BIBLE . That way we can also help any one who might err
by reminding them OF THE TRUTH IN that bible AND so as we wont be led astray by the doctrines of men .
JESUS ALONE saveth and all else graveth . I Dont even know if the word graveth exists . I just made it to ryhme and make a point .
OH WELL graveth exists in ol amigos version of english . JESUS SAVES , ALL ELSE GRAVES .

 

[Marymog]

My men... LOL! Paul was a man, yes, and so was James... LOL!

Oh...I see. Paul and James appeared to you, and they told you what they meant by those passages?

You didn't get your interpretation from anyone else?

 

[Marymog]

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. That would be like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree, and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. Simple!

So if someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith (James 2:14) and not authentic faith. We are made alive together with Christ by grace through faith FIRST then UNTO good works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

Read post #127.

 

[amigo de christo]

Oh...I see. Paul and James appeared to you, and they told you what they meant by those passages?

You didn't get your interpretation from anyone else?

Same line the jehovas can use , same line the mormons can use . ANYONE can speak this partial truth
and yet what do they do . THEY SAY ITS OUR MEN WHO INTERPRETED what james paul , peter or others said .
YET I TESTED yalls popes , I TESTED the jw camp , I TESTED the mormon camp and etc , THEY FALL WAY SHORT .
ITS TIME YOU GET YOU BACK IN THE BIBLE .
YOU hold to the same claim that every and any other faith can lay hold too . OH ITS OUR WISE MEN that ye need to sit under
SO THEY CAN SHOW YOU THE WAY . YOU bought a lie .
YOU THINK YOUR SO CALLED ONES are the direct hand , representation of GOD , of CHRIST and thus
HOWEVER THEY INTERPRET IS RIGHT . WRONG PARD .
THE JWS say the same line , you all do the same thing .
The JW can indeed point out the faults of THE RCC , just as did jospeh smith and yet , and yet
LEAD MEN ONLY INTO greater darkness . making the same claims the RCC DID at its beginning .
YOU MUST BE OF US , LEARN OF US , and thus what we taught IS OF GOD . YOU take men at their word .
We should have simply stuck to the words that the men we KNEW were of GOD , AS TRUTH
and paul himself said EVEN HE should be tested , ALL STEWARDS should be tested .
BUT OH NO , IF THE RCC SAID IT , GOD SAID IT . YOU BOUGHT A LIE . just like many others have as well .
BIBLE TIME . GET IN IT , >LEARN IT FOR YOU .
Now i cant say quite the same for the JW , cause they CHANGED And created another version , SO they gotta dump
that version . BUT IN THE BIBLE WE GOTTA GET and FAST . YOU and tons of others within the realm of christendom
are being decieved . I say this not to accuse , but with many tears and in hopes you will HEED IT .
GET IN THE BIBLE FOR YOU . dont learn it through the realm of the RCC or any other . LEARN IT FOR YOU .

 

[Marymog]

One of them, yes. But you referred to what James said. And I would assert that Paul did not contradict what James said, nor did James contradict what Paul said.


My men... LOL! Paul was a man, yes, and so was James... LOL!


Ah yes, context. Yours? What you assert that context is?


Well, he's talking about serving the Lord. And to your statement here, I would also point out what Paul writes to the Galatians:

"Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith" (Galatians 3:23-26).

So I would agree with you here, but not in the way you... would like me to, I guess... I would argue that he's talking about fulfilling what he elsewhere calls the law of Christ.

"Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ." (Galatians 6:2)​

"For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith..." (Philippians 3:8-9).​

And we know what Christ Himself said:

"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets" (Matthew 22:37-40).​

You mean as if I didn't before now?


Our faith is the work of God. I'm sure it's been quoted here several times already, but Paul's statement is unequivocal: "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." It is because of the faith that we serve God; He created us for this very purpose, ultimately for His own glory. Making faith out to be a work of man is making God's grace out to be something other than grace. This same Paul says, in Romans 11:6, "if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace."

MailmanDan is absolutely correct about what James says... "If someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith (James 2:14) and not authentic faith."


So, yes, we see eye to eye here. But... see above.


I appreciate your efforts. I mean, Mary, everybody here says that, but...

Grace and peace to you.

You have me a bit confused PinSeeker.

Do you or do you not believe Paul was talking about works of the law and not good deed works in Ephesians 2?

Mary