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Awesome post!
" You have NEVER sinned since you became a Christian? How long have you been saved?"
Utterly evasive! You expect us to believe you NEVER sin? How long since you sinned?
And you won't even tell us how long you've been saved 'without sin'. Not very convincing! As John said, you're are deceiving yourself.
So ask again so it can be clear. My questions were perfectly clear!
I don't teach salvation by "faith only" (James 2:24) which is an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains barren of works. (James 2:14) Not to be confused with "salvation through faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone (Romans 4:5-6) which results in producing works. (Ephesians 2:10) The core error of your belief system is that you are trying to substitute salvation by works for what the Bible teaches about salvation through faith, not works and you also seem to believe that all faith is the same "except for the lack of works" and cannot grasp a deeper faith which trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, which also explains why you have so much faith in works for salvation. Saving faith is belief, trust, reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation and obedience which "follows" is "works." You just can't figure that out and there is a reason for that.
More eisegesis on your part. In regard to Romans 6:16, I've noticed that works-salvationists (such as yourself) typically ignore "servants of obedience unto righteousness" (Romans 6:16) and simply stress "obedience unto righteousness" as if works of obedience which "follow" saving faith in Christ are "unto righteousness," as if we are saved by works. Your error culminates in works salvation.
This is an oxymoron and a straw man argument because those who are born of God do not continually live in rebellion to God. (1 John 3:7-10) God conditionally seals a person upon believing the gospel and they remain sealed unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30)
Is that what Paul said in Romans 5:1-2? NO. Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith, (and obedience/works? NO. Simply faith) we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace (and obedience/works? NO. Simply faith) in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. The act of obedience that saves is the obedient act of choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” Let me know when you are ready to believe the gospel. (Romans 1:16)
If obedience to God through doing good works after one has been saved through faith was the basis or means by which we are saved, then that would be works of merit. As I already explained, you can't have it both ways. Your "works based" false gospel is not obedience to God.
Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" before he built the ark. His obedience was a demonstration of his faith and not the origin of it. Building the ark demonstrated that Noah believed God about flooding the earth and the ark saved Noah and his family (physically) from drowning. (Hebrews 11:17) If Noah would have refused to build the ark, then he would have demonstrated a lack of faith in what God told him about flooding the earth, but of course, that was not the case.
As I already showed you that in contrast to this permanent indwelling in the New Testament, the indwelling in the Old Testament was selective and temporary. The Holy Spirit “came upon” such Old Testament people as Joshua (Numbers 27:18), David (1 Samuel 16:12-13) and Saul (1 Samuel 10:10). In the book of Judges, we see the Holy Spirit “coming upon” these various judges whom God raised up to deliver Israel from their oppressors. The Holy Spirit did not permanently indwell them/seal them, but instead, came upon these individuals for specific tasks. So, while in the New Testament the Holy Spirit only indwells believers and that indwelling is permanent, (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30) the Holy Spirit came upon certain individuals in the Old Testament for a specific task and not to permanently seal them in Christ. Your conditional upon obedience to God culminates in salvation by works.
The Israelites were in the olive tree to begin with because they were the "natural branches" and not because they were all saved. Because of their unbelief and hard hearts God removed His gracious hand from them as a people overall and broke them off from His goodness (but only for a time after which they will be restored - Romans 11:24-26). Nothing here about disobedient believers being cast off.
I already thoroughly explained this to you in post #51. In regard to the church in Ephesus in Revelation 2, clearly the Lord wanted the church at Ephesus to repent - to change their minds regarding their works. "You have left your first love" (verse 4). "Repent and do the first works" (verse 5). Works of love no longer characterized the church as a whole in Ephesus. In verses 2 and 6, we see that the church in Ephesus was not totally displeasing to the Lord, yet hating the deeds of the Nicolaitans and standing up for doctrinal purity still cannot be a substitute for love. So, what did the Lord mean when He spoke of removing the church's lampstand if the church in Ephesus did not repent? The removal of the lampstand is clearly figurative language. This does not mean that individuals in the church at Ephesus will lose their salvation, but the church can forfeit its place of light bearing and witness. Ephesus (located in modern day Turkey) in which the vast majority of Turkey is Islam. Go figure.
Those who are born of God are characterized by obedience and not disobedience. Ephesians 2:2 - And you He made alive, who were (past tense) dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked (past tense) according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience. (unbelievers) Your faith onlyist (James 2:24) straw man argument is a bogus argument made by works-salvationists who ignore Romans 4:2-6.
Strive, yes. Believers "keep" (Greek word - "tereo") guard, observe, watch over His commands. (1 John 2:3) This does not imply sinless, perfect obedience 100% of the time to all of His commands. (Romans 3:23; 1 John 1:8-10) Only Jesus Christ is without sin. (Hebrews 4:15)
In Luke 13:24, we read "strive to enter through the narrow gate" (multiple other translations say "door") and in John 10:9, Jesus said - "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture." Jesus is not teaching salvation by works here as works-salvationists (such as yourself) teach. Strive to enter through the narrow gate/door signifies a struggle against conflict. Christ was not suggesting that anyone could merit eternal life by striving or working hard enough to obtain salvation based on the merits of their works/performance, which contradicts numerous passages of scripture. (John 3:15,16,18; 6:28-29; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 4:5-6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9; Philippians 3:9 etc..).
Amen! Only Jesus Christ was sinless and perfect 100% of the time.
Romans 3:23 - All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Repentance is not about sinless perfection but about a change of mind and the new direction of that change of mind is faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. (Acts 20:21) Moral self-reformation is not a substitute for regeneration.
Straw man argument.
Straw man argument.
Show me the word "obedience" in Romans 5:1-2 or in Ephesians 2:8,9. Obedience is works. It's you who is undermining the NT's delegated authority as you continue to teach salvation by works. God imputes righteousness "apart from works." (Romans 4:6) Your so-called obedience amounts to unbelief.
Don't leave out Campbellism. The so called church of Christ perverts the gospel by teaching salvation by works (with a heavy emphasis on water baptism).
Your church undermines the Bible's teaching by promoting a man made "works based" false gospel. Faith onlyism is a straw man argument. You don't understand the difference between an empty profession of faith/dead faith (faith onlyism - James 2:14,24) and faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) and there is a reason for that.
Believing the gospel is the act of obedience that seals/saves. (Romans 1:16; 10:16; Ephesians 1:13) I'm not disobedient to the gospel and your unbelief is disobedience.
Your faith only straw man argument is getting old and has reached the point of slander. I don't teach salvation by "faith (empty profession of faith/dead faith) only" per James 2:14,24. I teach salvation by faith in Jesus Christ alone. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Learn the difference. Do I need to explain Romans 6:16 to you again? Pay attention. In regard to Romans 6:16, works-salvationists (such as yourself) ignore "servants of obedience unto righteousness" (Romans 6:16) and simply stress "obedience unto righteousness" as if works of obedience which "follow" saving faith in Christ are "unto righteousness," as if we are saved by works.
In regard to Romans 6:16, there is a contrast here between servants. There are only two kinds of servants in this world, in the spiritual sense - "servants of sin unto death," or "servants of obedience unto righteousness." When we place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation, we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness." Being servants of sin is put in the past tense.
Your straw man arguments and straight up slander is really getting old. Your deliberate dishonesty is not appreciated. Romans 6:16 - Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Again, Paul goes on in Romans 6:18 - "You have been set free from sin and have become servants of righteousness." This is not about salvation by works as you suppose and works salvation is disobedience to God's will. (John 6:40; Romans 4:5-6) Again, your so-called obedience (works-righteousness) is actually unbelief.
You showed me no such thing. Only your eisegesis. Romans 4:11 - And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also. *Nothing here about a broken seal in Romans 4:11 or Romans 2:25. The Jewish ceremony of circumcision has value only if you obey God’s law. But if you don’t obey God’s law, you are no better off than an uncircumcised Gentile. Again, nothing here about a broken seal.
The Jews were mistaken, and Jesus wasted no time telling them how it is in Matthew 3:9 - And do not presume to say to yourselves, we have Abraham for our forefather; for I tell you, God is able to raise up descendants for Abraham from these stones!
The Israelites were in the olive tree to begin with because they were the "natural branches" and not because they were all saved. Because of their unbelief and hard hearts God removed His gracious hand from them as a people overall and broke them off from His goodness (but only for a time after which they will be restored - Romans 11:24-26). We Gentiles have now been grafted into God's goodness and are the recipients of His blessings. Paul's warning is that we should not become arrogant because we might lose the goodness and blessings of God just like the Jews lost the goodness and blessings of God. Professing Christians, who are Gentiles, are corporately in outward covenant with Christ so, it would appear that Romans 11 is speaking about the question of collective ecclesiology and not individual soteriology.
They were cut off because of unbelief, which is the opposite of belief. No loss of salvation here.
Again, the Israelites were in the olive tree to begin with because they were the "natural branches" and not because they were all saved, so your argument goes up in smoke. At what point were these unbelieving Israelites cut off? At what point will the Israelites be grafted in again? Think about it. Romans 11 is speaking about the question of collective ecclesiology and not individual soteriology.
I already thoroughly explained this and your eisegesis has already been refuted. What I already explained makes perfect sense. You just don't get it.
Are you really trying to convince us that all those who have been save many years have never sinned since salvation?
