Jesus Christ is come in flesh of man, not of angels
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You're saying I am slandering the devil? I am accusing him of quoting the Bible wrongly?
Oh, I see your point. Yes, you did copy and paste the Bible rightly. You just teach it wrongly.
You divide it in a way, that makes it eat itself to death.
Any time you want to show me how my take on your teaching is different from what you teach, I'd be glad to see it. Just make sure you quote me, as well as yourself, rightly.
There is Jesus-- the flesh of man, and then there is the spirit with which he was anointed- the son of God, which descended upon him wherein he became the anointed one, messiah, Christ.
Amen. I like it when Christians actually teach the Bible without 'adjusting' it to fit their own ideas.
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Gods Word came forth out of Gods mouth.
God Sent His Word (that holy thing), to a human woman’s womb.
A human mans seed, a human womans seed had nothing to do with The Word of God (Jesus), being in a virgin womans womb.
The body that came forth from that woman’s womb, IN THE LIKENESS AS A MAN, was a body, God Prepared.
The body, God prepared for His Word accomplished what He was Sent to do.
Human men came forth out of the dust of the Earth…not Gods mouth…
Human men are not AS a man, they are a mankind of creation.
Isa 55:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Luke 1:
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(was called the Son of man, shall be, and some 30 yrs later was called the Son of God)
Phil 2:
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Matt 13:
[34] For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
John 19:
[28] After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
Jesus’ legal human Married parents, joined as one, OF the House of David, so also thus was Jesus LAWFULLY of the House of David (of Davids Loins), thus Jesus according to Jewish Law, legally qualified to Sit on King David’s (everlasting, as God established) Throne.
Heaven and Earth….shall eventually BE ONE Kingdom.
God HAS Authority to Rule His Kingdom Heaven.
God gave mankind authority to Rule Earth.
Man corrupts, loses his authority, other men gain authority, men corrupt, Satan is given authority, Satan corrupts, God destroys the corruption. God renews the Earth. God presides over Earth being the King of both Heaven and Earth.
All that occupy Heaven / Earth are Gods “sons”, faithful to God, and God their only God.
God Bless,
Taken
Don’t twist what I say.
I didn’t say ONLY this.
I made a statement of a particular thing that applied to a particular thing.
Gods Word came forth out of Gods Mouth.
( a further fact is while Gods word comes forth, Gods word remains IN Him …. Same for people )
God Prepared His Word a Body…
How handy, since Celestial body’s DO NOT HAVE BLOOD.
and Terrestrial Body’s (come out of the earth) and Terrestrial body’s DO HAVE BLOOD, in fact the Life OF a Terrestrial Body IS ITS BLOOD.
Jesus’ BODY did not come out of the Earth.
Jesus’ BODY was prepared…FOR WHEN He would Come to Earth.
Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
John 16:
[27] For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
[28] I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
Other than the body prepared for Him of the seed of David and Abraham in Mary's flesh. (I don't think women have seed)
Exactly, of the seed of David and Abraham
A body doesn't accomplish anything. The soul and spirit of the man and women do the accomplishing for good or evil with the body.
Do you talk to your body to ask it what it's going to accomplish today?
This is akin to Docetism. Jesus was not really a man, but only came in appearance as a man.
You're teaching Jesus was not a man. You make the Docetic difference between being a man born of a woman on earth, and only appearing int he shape of a man's body temporarily to accomplish something for God.
You are promoting this docetic stuff just to cling to your super-christ-hero of unnatural immortal flesh, that was only the appearance of a man on earth.
Which is fine by me. Doesn't both me in the least. There be many christs and gospel preached. Whether it's a created-christ-angel come as a man, or a super-christ-hero only appearing as a man. It's all the same to me.
I just show by simple verses of the Bible neither are true. In the end, Tt's all about our works and how we are living with that kind of christ, right?
There you go! Good job. It's been like pulling teeth, because you don't want to agree with the verses given, but you at least slip the truth in the middle of all your stuff.
There's still hope for you believing all the words of the Bible, and not just parts you already like.
David's seed in the flesh of Mary was used for Jesus' body by the Spirit. The seed of man by David in Jesus' flesh qualified Him physically to sit on David's throne. The man Jesus Christ was born of a woman of the house of David, with a body full of the seed of David. (And of course Abraham, and of course Noah, and of course Adam...)
And, Jesus' circumcision of flesh (by David's seed) according to the law on the 8th day, qualified Him to be a proper Israelite and Jew in the OT nation of Israel.
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
This is final proof that Jesus according to the flesh, was in all things made a man like all men, particularly the nation of Israel and the sons of Mary and Joseph.
He was a man, not only as a man, not only in appearance of a man. Bodily, Jesus Christ was a man just like any other man on earth. It behoved the Word to do be made so, that He may be a High Priest for man, to make reconciliation between man and God.
As you point out rightly, some christ with a supernatural immortal body is not a man, and so cannot be a High Priest and Advocate and Mediator between God and man.
I do like watching Superman movies, but he is only fiction made up in the minds of men and women. And even if he were real, he would not be my hero, and especially not my christ. I only follow the righteous example of a man, who is now the resurrected man Christ Jesus.
This would be the ultimate form of deception, yet many suggest this very thing over and over. They suggest that Jesus was different in some way-- and only appeared to be a regular person. It's another way of accusing both Jesus and our Father of pretense. It suggests that God sent His son to be a pretender.
They carry this dogma everywhere they go. Yes, he was baptized for the forgiveness of sins (they say) --but he didn't need this baptism because he had never sinned. In other words, he was the perfect God, become the perfect man-- pretending to be like us, while being wholly (and holy) different from us. And he was just pretending while getting baptized and repenting for sins he never committed.
Or they will say-- he had no earthly Father who seeded him. He was just like us, oh-- except he was nothing like us. We all had a father and a mother who physically brought us into existence, but not him.... he was unique, disputing direct scripture that states he was just like us in every way.
I reject it all. Jesus was real. He was not a pretender.
Neither did the Son. Nor frogs.
Each and every word of God proceeds from the mouth of the Father, from the Son, and from the Spirit.
The Son does not proceed from the mouth of the Father, nor the Father from the mouth of the Son, nor the Spirit from either Father or Son.
The Son obeyed the commandment of the Father, to come down out of heaven in the flesh of man. And be a man doing His will and good pleasure in all things while dwelling with man on earth.
Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
This of appears to be a side issue, unless it has something to do with a supernatural christ of inhuman flesh and blood.
Human reproductive seeds had nothing to do with Jesus.
Jesus’ birth on earth was in the same fashion as a human….9 months in a womb, born forth from a human womans womb.
Born is essentially something alive coming forth from something alive.
Jesus came forth out from God in Heaven, to earth.
Jesus body was prepared in the likeness as an earthly man, with Blood.
Jesus was not born of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man.
Jesus was born of God, called the only Begotten of God, called the Son of God.
John 1:
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[4] In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
[5] And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
[6] There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
[7] The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
[8] He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
[9] That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
[10] He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
[11] He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
[12] But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
[13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Gal 3.
[16] Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
I always love it when a fellow believer adds another point to the argument, that I had not thought of before. Thanks much.
My question really is, why? Why come up with some other kind of Jesus, than the flesh and blood man that He was?
Yes, He was God the word made flesh, but why does that mean He can't be made real felsh and blood of man?
Is any thing too hard for the LORD?
For with God nothing shall be impossible.
Frankly, I think it has to do with a form of idolatry. The old gnostics pretended to have higher thoughts for God, so that they were too lowly for God to ever dwell with them in their own skin. I believe this is what Paul is speaking of with worshipping of angels and pretense of humility.
Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
To me, they make a show of really high thinkers and worshippers of an eternal God that can't be touched nor bothered with becoming an humble man in the flesh.
"Oh no, no, no. The real God and Christ cannot possibly condescend to our low estate. No. He must have PURE blood and IMMORTAL flesh..."
Well said. It captures all the bogus high talking lip service. When you think about it, they are actually degrading God down to their level, by making something too hard for God to do.
Also, we have to remember the justified sinning factor. The biggest source of some superman christ of inhuman flesh, is the 'sin nature' heresy. They want to at least partially blame their own bodies for what they do with it, but they're not willing to ascribe the same body to Jesus. That would show whether the body is 'sinful' or not, it has nothing to do with how we live.
Exactly. I only recently realized what Heb 2:17 is plainly saying. The Bible says Jesus was made by the Spirit exactly the same us us, in every way as any man on earth since Adam. (Though not from dust)
The thing is that God has written His word with every heresy in mind, and always has a couple verses to directly refute them and state the plain truth of the matter. With Heb 2:17 and some others, there should be no more argument, if we take God at His own words. And yet, we see these undeniable proofs being denied over and over again, by people who otherwise claim to believe the Bible is the true words of God. We come to find their belief is only partial, when God's words contradict their pet theories and doctrines.
I believe the reason is normally just simple pride. However, there are those that trust entirely upon their doctrine alone in order to believe they are saved and headed to heaven. Therefore, they cannot allow their doctrine to be 'harmed' in any way, which includes denying God's own words if necessary.
Amen and amen! I will remember this point. Another believer such as yourself helped rid me of the 'sin nature' tradition. Like you, he says Jesus cannot possibly be man's example, if He was not actually a physical man like us.
He could only be the example to follow by other superhuman Marvel heroes. In fact, one of their own just recently came out and agreed that such a Christ really the 'best' example for men to follow. It's impracticable. And so, a more practical example is the doubleminded Christian of Romans 7m which is more realistic.
That's what I call the Christian idolatry of an idealized Christ. They gush forever, as you say, about how He was so holy perfect and pure (which He is), and so not someone the rest of us little people could ever follow and walk with daily. They idolize and idealize the life of Jesus out of the ball park, so that we can't possibly run the bases with Him. (It reminds me of a golf commercial with Superman teeing off, hitting it a mile down the fairway, and zooming with his bag to the ball in 2 seconds flat. How can any mere mortal ever play golf with such a super inhuman guy?)
Thank you very much for the new point you made. The man Jesus Christ was not a superhero only pretending to be a man. He was a man just as He and the Bible says. He even talks about how He ate and drank and went to the bathroom like the rest of us. I mean, what immortal-bodied super-christ goes to the bathroom??
Maybe Tiger Woods is one of Jesus fellow super-brothers with super-duper flesh and blood. Afterall, they once said he wasn't human either. (So, he just chose to play golf instead.
)
Already posted Scripture, Jesus came forth out from God, in the likeness AS a man.
You might do well to learn the difference between…
IS a man
AS a man
Going off on a tangent, talking about frogs and superhero’s….deflates taking you seriously as having the ability to discuss spiritual things.
1 Cor 15:
[45] And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
[46] Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
[47] The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
[48] As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
So, David and Abraham were not human either. I was waiting for this one.
In the end, you've chosen not to believe all the Bible. No problem.
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Once you reject the simple verse that Jesus' body was made in every way just like any man's body, then it becomes an observation of exercising your unbelief everywhere else in the Bible, that pertains to the body of the man Jesus Christ.
With human woman's flesh and human man's seed. The human stuff of the virgin's womb, that was used by the Spirit to make a human body for God Himself,
The Spirit did not make up a body out of nothing and cause it to appear in Mary's womb. It was a body made of the flesh in her womb. Her body was made of the seed of David, even as the bodies of all her sons and daughters.
But you have something naturally alive coming forth from nothing natural.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
No body on earth appears on earth, independent of the dust and flesh of the earth. (Excepting only for the temporary bodies of angels and spirits.)
The Spirit made a woman out of the rib of a virgin man. He made a man out of the flesh of a virgin woman.
You are preaching a temporary bodily appearance from nothing natural, that is only for angels and preincarnate Christ on earth. You only insert that temporary independent body, this time, in the womb of a woman.
Antichrist Docetism: Christ is come in the independent bodily appearance of a man, and not in the flesh of man.
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Jesus' body was made in all things as a man: by the flesh of a woman with the seed of man.
So now you mix spirit with flesh.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
You want to preach an inhuman super-christ, that was not a man, no problem.
At least the created christ-angel is acknowledged to be a man with man's body.
Exactly. You make it perfectly clear that the super-christ you preach was not a man. And he did not come in the flesh of man.
You are preaching a Docetic variation, where the spirit of Christ with 'pure' blood of a spirit, only appeared on earth looking like a man. But he was not a man, though he did have a real 'immortal' body.
The only difference here is between your mystical immortal flesh and the Docetics phantom body.
I'd call it a slim distinction without a difference.
The super-christ hero is accurate. He even got killed by some sinful kryptonite. The frogs were just a spur of the moment fun absurdum.
On a more serious note, you are preaching just another sort of last days pagan hero born of the gods, who only looked like men, but were not men with normal bodies. They were golden-age demigods with supernatural bodies.
And since you say plainly that your christ was not a man and not human, then you are allying yourself with Docetism.
As I said. You can preach whatever christ you want. It's still interesting to see how far out on the limb you're willing to go, in strong arming the Bible to fit your christ.
But there ceased to be any serious argument here, once you reject the indisputable verse pertaining to such things:
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
My Jesus Christ and High Priest and Mediator between God and men, was a man.
I really don't see the reason for having to even argue this, but I'm sure there as many reasons as their christs.
I accept the correction here, thanks. Only if you were to acknowledge the truth of the verses given, and still insisted Jesus' flesh was not that of man, then you would need to say the seed and flesh of David and Abraham were also not that of man.
Instead you prefer to just reject the verses, and say the seed of David and Abraham had nothing to do with the flesh of Jesus at all.
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Or rather, to keep deniability of 'saying' there was no seed of David and Abraham Jesus' flesh, you instead now want to teach there is seed of man, that is not for reproduction. Or is not 'reproductive'.
So, the seed of David and Abraham in Jesus' flesh was not reproductive seed, but sterile.
This is the extent to which people will go, just to not be corrected by the Bible. There's got to be something more to it than just simple pride.
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You are only speaking of the 'mechanical process' of Jesus' birth? His body was in a woman's womb unto the time of His exiting. Why is that?
You don't include anything about His life-sustaining maturing in the womb until birth.
Are you saying that His body recieved nothing from the flesh and blood of the Mary's body? As though her umbilical nutrients were not sustaining and nourishing his body, while in the womb??
Are you saying your christ was only mechanically born and looked like other babes, but was not umbilically nurtured in the the womb like other babes??
The umbilical cord is physiologically and genetically part of the fetus...
He had no such natural umbilical cord from Mary 'invading' his 'pure' blood and immortally 'clean' flesh??
Are you not teaching a christ of yours', that was made entirely by the Spirit, and kept alive and growing only by the Spirit until birth? Is this not a teaching of an unnatural inhuman babe implanted into the womb of a virgin woman, and grown independently of her own 'genetic' flesh and life's blood?
The only contact and part of Mary your christ had with the woman, was external alone?
Was that virgin woman only a host-womb for a strange alien body, just using her womb to gestate like a petri dish? The virgin birth included a virginal contactless gestation, other than immortal flesh touch foul womb?
Unless you had said he did come out of her womb, one could wonder if it was through her belly.
Now this is an amazing twist to John 1:13, I have not seen before. Thanks much.
I guess that answers the question: while Jesus mechanically entered into and came through a woman's womb, 'like other babes', He was not actually born of a woman's flesh and blood.
None of the seed of man and life-giving blood of Mary ever had any part in conception nor entered in to nourish body of your christ. If there was an umbilical cord also made by the Spirit, then it was only for appearance's sake to be cut at birth.
Just as you show, your christ's body was entirely made, nourished, and born of the spirit only, having nothing to do with the seed, flesh, and blood of the woman's womb. (Other than that of a vessel for incubation. A foul one to boot)
And since the Son was never born of blood of men and women (like all other babes from the womb), and John 1:13 applies to the born again sons of God. Then that would mean the newborn sons of the Spirit were also not born of unclean flesh and blood of any woman.
But since we were first born body of flesh and blood, then that would mean we are also cleansed with the pure blood and clean immortal flesh of the Son! (Back to the gym, since this is all I got for eternity.)
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