Jesus Christ is come in flesh of man, not of angels

[Ghada]

Jesus was not born of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man.

Jesus was born of God, called the only Begotten of God, called the Son of God.

John 1:13 is not saying the Son was not born of the flesh and blood of men and women like other babes. The Son, like all born again sons, was made and born of flesh and blood of men and women.

Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

The baby Jesus was conceived and nurtured from the flesh and life's blood of Mary (Who also had the seed of David by her parents), And was declared to be the son of God come in the flesh of man and woman on earth.

He was the Word made flesh of man and woman, and the Son declared to be born of blood of man and woman.

And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be declared the Son of God.

Jesus' body was conceived by the Spirit from the flesh and blood of Mary's womb, wherein was the seed of David's loins.

Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

I really don't know how many times and ways God can say something so simple and plain.

But then, if one plain verse doesn't convince the unbeliever, there is no amount of verses that will do it.

I believe that's why God writes His words, so that we must read them with honest faith. And even if he did write a verse saying, "Jesus Christ My only begotten Son came in the same exact flesh of all men and women!" An unbeliever still wouldn't believe it.

Oh wait, He did say that didn't He? Just not in the same exact verse.

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

 

[Taken]

I accept the correction here, thanks. Only if you were to acknowledge the truth of the verses given, and still insisted Jesus' flesh was not that of man, then you would need to say the seed and flesh of David and Abraham were also not that of man.

No. You need to understand, God created AND made natural men with their own seed to reproduce. And God continues making natural men into spiritual men via Gods Seed.

Yes, Abraham’s seed Naturally was from his father…a man.
Yes, Abraham’s flesh was that of a Natural man.

Did Abraham receive a born again spirit?
If so, while, Abraham had natural offspring…
So also would Abraham’s faithful offspring have a spirit born of God.

Jesus was not only born of God….
Christ IS the seed of God.

This is not intended to make sense to a Carnal mind.
It is intended to make sense to a quickened (born again) spirit.

Relationships:
Yes, men have a natural blood line relationship, of a mans seed.
Yes, ‘some’ men have a supernatural relationship, of Gods Seed.

I’ll give you a few references, you can read, study and I hope you grasp the knowledge and ask God to give you the Understanding.

Heb 7 - whole chapter
John 8 - whole chapter
Gal 3 - whole chapter

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

John 1:13 is not saying the Son was not born of the flesh and blood of men and women like other babes. The Son, like all born again sons, was made and born of flesh and blood of men and women.

Jesus….Word
Christ….Power
God……..Will

ARE ONE God.

Son………Lord
Father…..God
Christ…..Almighty

The Lord God Almighty is NOT created.
Men ARE created.
God Himself can and does APPEAR in a fashion as He chooses, to fulfill His Will.

A dove?
A bush?
A human man?

God is Spirit. Angels are created spirits….
Angels can Appear in the fashion as a man…
And God can’t ?

 

[Ghada]

No. You need to understand, God created AND made natural men with their own seed to reproduce. And God continues making natural men into spiritual men via Gods Seed.

True

Yes, Abraham’s seed Naturally was from his father…a man.
Yes, Abraham’s flesh was that of a Natural man.

True

Did Abraham receive a born again spirit?

No man born again of seed and Spirit of Christ until after His resurrection. (1 Peter 1)

Jesus was not only born of God….
Christ IS the seed of God.

True

Relationships:
Yes, men have a natural blood line relationship, of a mans seed.
Yes, ‘some’ men have a supernatural relationship, of Gods Seed.

True

I’ll give you a few references, you can read, study and I hope you grasp the knowledge and ask God to give you the Understanding.

Whatever

You've sidestepped the whole argument of the thread:

And they answered and said unto Jesus, We cannot tell.

The nature of Jesus' body was in all things natural flesh and blood of all men, prepared from the flesh of Mary with the seed of David.

 

[Ghada]

Jesus….Word
Christ….Power
God……..Will

ARE ONE God.

Son………Lord
Father…..God
Christ…..Almighty

The Lord God Almighty is NOT created.
Men ARE created.

And so, you stand by your christ not being a man.

God Himself can and does APPEAR in a fashion as He chooses, to fulfill His Will.
Angels can Appear in the fashion as a man…
And God can’t ?

Exactly, and of course. And Christ with angels did come temporarily to earth in the form of men. (Angels still do as strangers entertained unawares)

And so, you confirm your Docetic christ. You preach he only came in appearance of a man like before to Abraham, after the nature of angels.

Your Docetism is not classic though. They say He appeared as before all of a sudden on earth for about 33 years. You say he appeared the last time like a baby, instead of all a sudden as a man.

It's a distinction without a difference. As one person is saying, your christ just made a more elaborate show of coming into the world like a man, but not being a man.

He was mechanically born like a baby, but not being a baby of woman's flesh and blood. He bodily walked like a man, but not being a man of flesh and blood.

The Bible says Jesus Christ is come in the flesh of man and woman. Your docetic variation from the womb, only came in appearance like man, like before after the nature of angels.

 

[Taken]

True

True

No man born again of seed and Spirit of Christ until after His resurrection. (1 Peter 1)

True



True

Whatever

You've sidestepped the whole argument of the thread:

And they answered and said unto Jesus, We cannot tell.

The nature of Jesus' body was in all things natural flesh and blood of all men, prepared from the flesh of Mary with the seed of David.

No. I disagree Mary’s flesh, mans blood, had anything to do with making Jesus’ body.

Men reproduce offspring in their Likeness.
Adam’s offspring were in his Likeness.
Abraham’s offspring were in his Likeness.
….
Did Abraham have an encounter with Anyone who blessed him?
With What?
….
There are answers to questions….
From the Logical conclusions of mens MINDS.

There are also answers to questions…
From the Truth conclusion of Gods Word.

The Understandings of the Truths of Gods Truth are called Spiritual Understanding.
THAT ^ Understanding ONLY comes FROM God TO a man….
WHAT man? A man WHOSE spirit Gods reveals His Understanding…
Ie…Spirit of God TO spirit of man.

True….Jesus revealed to men, that AFTER He returned to Heaven He would send the Comforter, ie Holy Spirit to dwell IN (particular) men.

Does Scripture say, NO other men ever received Gods Spirit IN them? Gods SEED IN them?

I can not Understand spiritual things For you.
I can point you to Scriptures, You can read the chapters that lead into the particular Scriptures, You can study, You (if converted) can directly ask God for His Understanding.

Gods encounter with Abram is a good starting point. Gods promises to Abraham…Remember, a “father of many nations”.
Nations ARE the people, divided by boundaries of countries.

Abraham was not promised “father of all nations/people”.
Logically….only his offspring?
or
Spiritually….of only those faithful to God?

king of Salem is a good short, to the point study of Him.

Further is the parallel between:
king of Salem introduction, and revealing He is King, (from a king to thee King) and parallel to Christ Jesus, whose destiny IS King and “His” throne Jerusalem.

Study the knowledge….see the mystery of the parallel, between WHO the king of Salem was, WHO he blessed, What was he blessed with. And WHO is the power, of God, and is Gods Power limited to not do Gods Will…
AND Jesus’ own comments about Abraham.

And…WHO are Abraham’s “spiritual” offspring? They ONLY who have a mans seed of Abraham’s genetic natural seed line?
OR…(the answer is no)
ANY who also have the same SEED of Gods SEED? (The answer is yes).

Gal 3
[16] Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

It is sort of like … in a basic elementary view… of when and why God changed Abram’s name.
Abram had offspring, in his likeness.
(Natural Mans seed)
AND
Abraham had offspring, in his likeness.
(Spiritual Gods Seed)

 

[Taken]

And so, you stand by your christ not being a man.

I didn’t say that.
I said Jesus was NOT… A HUMAN man.

I said Jesus APPEARED….AS a HUMAN man.

Human men SAW Jesus….He Looked Like a Human man, they called Him a man, and so men call things as they can see.

Today, men can LOOK as a woman. Often they are called a woman, as they are seen.
Does calling a man, a woman, MAKE that man a woman? No

Does calling the Spiritual Lord, a man, MAKE him a HUMAN man? No

Human men come forth out of the earth.
The Earth sustains the life of a Human man.
A human man would DIE without the minerals, vitamins, nutrients, water in and of the Earth.

Jesus IS Spirit. He came out of God. Earthly nutrients did not sustain his life. He is a Spirit. Did he eat and drink? Sure. Did it sustain His Life? No.
Did He go 40 days without food and drink?
Can you? Maybe, would you lose weight, likely be sickly? Probably. Any mention of Jesus ever being sick?

I can not understand spiritual things for you.

 

[Ghada]

For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Angels visiting the earth and taking on the appearance of men, is the nature of angels' visits to earth as men.

And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

God in Heb 2 is simply saying, that Jesus Christ did not come as before to Abraham, after the nature of an angels, who only take on the form of men for a visit.

Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

When the Word was made flesh, the only begotten Son came not for another visit only, but in the flesh of any man, born of the flesh of a woman.

He did not just take on Him the form of man for another long-term visit, after the nature of angels, but this last time took on Him the seed of Abraham by the flesh of Mary.

Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

He was a son of Abraham and of David loins, like any other flesh and blood Israelite and Jew born of the house of David.

The virgin birth was prophesied for a sign only, not for a way around having the seed and blood of men and women in His own body.

Jesus' body was as natural as any man and woman born of women, having the seed of man in their flesh. He was not the Christ-Angel of the Lord on a 33 year visit to earth, with a body prepared for Him by the Spirit, in order to look like a man.

As one person is saying, that would be a deception of the highest and lowest order, by coming through the womb of a woman, but being a babe conceived and born of the flesh and blood of the woman.

"The umbilical cord is a conduit between the developing babe and the mother. During maturation in the womb, the umbilical cord is physiologically and genetically part of the baby."

Jesus was a flesh and blood babe born of a woman. His mother's umbilical cord was not just prepared by the Spirit for appearances sake, to be cut at birth.

Jesus was a man.

 

[Ghada]

No. I disagree Mary’s flesh, mans blood, had anything to do with making Jesus’ body.

I'm well aware of your unbelief in certain parts of the Bible.

Men reproduce offspring in their Likeness.
Adam’s offspring were in his Likeness.
Abraham’s offspring were in his Likeness.
….
Did Abraham have an encounter with Anyone who blessed him?
With What?
….
There are answers to questions….
From the Logical conclusions of mens MINDS.

There are also answers to questions…
From the Truth conclusion of Gods Word.

The Understandings of the Truths of Gods Truth are called Spiritual Understanding.
THAT ^ Understanding ONLY comes FROM God TO a man….
WHAT man? A man WHOSE spirit Gods reveals His Understanding…
Ie…Spirit of God TO spirit of man.

True….Jesus revealed to men, that AFTER He returned to Heaven He would send the Comforter, ie Holy Spirit to dwell IN (particular) men.

Does Scripture say, NO other men ever received Gods Spirit IN them? Gods SEED IN them?

I can not Understand spiritual things For you.
I can point you to Scriptures, You can read the chapters that lead into the particular Scriptures, You can study, You (if converted) can directly ask God for His Understanding.

Gods encounter with Abram is a good starting point. Gods promises to Abraham…Remember, a “father of many nations”.
Nations ARE the people, divided by boundaries of countries.

Abraham was not promised “father of all nations/people”.
Logically….only his offspring?
or
Spiritually….of only those faithful to God?

king of Salem is a good short, to the point study of Him.

Further is the parallel between:
king of Salem introduction, and revealing He is King, (from a king to thee King) and parallel to Christ Jesus, whose destiny IS King and “His” throne Jerusalem.

Study the knowledge….see the mystery of the parallel, between WHO the king of Salem was, WHO he blessed, What was he blessed with. And WHO is the power, of God, and is Gods Power limited to not do Gods Will…
AND Jesus’ own comments about Abraham.

And…WHO are Abraham’s “spiritual” offspring? They ONLY who have a mans seed of Abraham’s genetic natural seed line?
OR…(the answer is no)
ANY who also have the same SEED of Gods SEED? (The answer is yes).

Gal 3
[16] Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

It is sort of like … in a basic elementary view… of when and why God changed Abram’s name.
Abram had offspring, in his likeness.
(Natural Mans seed)
AND
Abraham had offspring, in his likeness.
(Spiritual Gods Seed)

This is just pseudo-scholar smokescreen.

Unless you have some new twist to make out of the Bible, I'll not be arguing with your unbelief anymore.

I do appreciate you sharing your form of docetism, with your unnatural alien christ implanted in the host-womb of a woman on earth.

Very interesting indeed. No doubt even coming with his very own artificial umbilical cord for good affect.

Very sneaky indeed. No doubt had everyone fooled when they cut it.

 

[Mr E]

For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Angels visiting the earth and taking on the appearance of men, is the nature of angels' visits to earth as men.

And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

God in Heb 2 is simply saying, that Jesus Christ did not come as before to Abraham, after the nature of an angels, who only take on the form of men for a visit.

Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

When the Word was made flesh, the only begotten Son came not for another visit only, but in the flesh of any man, born of the flesh of a woman.

He did not just take on Him the form of man for another long-term visit, after the nature of angels, but this last time took on Him the seed of Abraham by the flesh of Mary.

Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

He was a son of Abraham and of David loins, like any other flesh and blood Israelite and Jew born of the house of David.

The virgin birth was prophesied for a sign only, not for a way around having the seed and blood of men and women in His own body.

Jesus' body was as natural as any man and woman born of women, having the seed of man in their flesh. He was not the Christ-Angel of the Lord on a 33 year visit to earth, with a body prepared for Him by the Spirit, in order to look like a man.

As one person is saying, that would be a deception of the highest and lowest order, by coming through the womb of a woman, but being a babe conceived and born of the flesh and blood of the woman.

"The umbilical cord is a conduit between the developing babe and the mother. During maturation in the womb, the umbilical cord is physiologically and genetically part of the baby."

Jesus was a flesh and blood babe born of a woman. His mother's umbilical cord was not just prepared by the Spirit for appearances sake, to be cut at birth.

Jesus was a man.

If they don't first understand biology, they will never understand spirituality. (Jesus- John 3:12)

 

[Taken]

I'm well aware of your unbelief in certain parts of the Bible.

This is just pseudo-scholar smokescreen.

Your statement is flat out FALSE.

I have revealed multiple times, MY BELIEF is the Bible is ALL TRUE.

Understanding God according to Gods Understanding is a “smokescreen”…???

WOW.

Jesus speaking….(another smokescreen?)
John 3:
[12] If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Col 1:
[9] For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

 

[Taken]

If they don't first understand biology, they will never understand spirituality. (Jesus- John 3:12)

Exactly.
Natural first.
Spiritual thereafter.

 

[Ghada]

Your statement is flat out FALSE.

I have revealed multiple times, MY BELIEF is the Bible is ALL TRUE.

Understanding God according to Gods Understanding is a “smokescreen”…???

WOW.

Jesus speaking….(another smokescreen?)
John 3:
[12] If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Col 1:
[9] For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

If your understanding produces a christ, that was not a man, then you're understanding is from another book.

As I said. What's the point of arguing with a christ that was not a man?

I only look for the Christ that was a man for me to follow. I can't follow a christ that was not even a man. I don't try to follow whales nor superman.

Unless you produce a new twist on the Bible, then there's no more argument between us. You are certainly welcome to your christ that was never a man on earth.

 

[Taken]

If your understanding produces a christ, that was not a man, then you're understanding is from another book.

As I said. What's the point of arguing with a christ that was not a man?

I only look for the Christ that was a man for me to follow. I can't follow a christ that was not even a man. I don't try to follow whales nor superman.

Unless you produce a new twist on the Bible, then there's no more argument between us. You are certainly welcome to your christ that was never a man on earth.

Hearing problem?

I did not say Jesus was not a man.
I said Jesus was not a HUMAN man.

Do you understand God is the Creator AND Maker.
The Maker IS the Word of God.
The NAME of the Word of God, IS Jesus.

The Creator and Maker are without Beginning.
The Creator and Maker DO NOT BECOME the Created.

HUMAN men Are the Created and Made.

Angels are Spirits.
Angels can APPEAR as men, and do, and you would not know It is an Angel.

You think, God gave MORE power to His created angels, that He Himself has?
That would be a No.

There is a reason God is called;
Lord God ALMIGHTY.

Heb 13:
[2] Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

 

[Mr E]

Hearing problem?

I did not say Jesus was not a man.
I said Jesus was not a HUMAN man.

Really? He was just a Hu?

This is silliness. It’s not theological. It’s not biological. It’s not spiritual.

It’s just silly.




Is an "anthropos" not a human?

But now you are trying to kill me, a man who has told you the truth I heard from God. Abraham did not do this! (John 8:40)


Here's a hint for your edification-- Anthropology - Wikipedia

 

[Taken]

Really? He was just a Hu?

This is silliness. It’s not theological. It’s not biological. It’s not spiritual.

It’s just silly.

View attachment 37891


Is an "anthropos" not a human?

But now you are trying to kill me, a man who has told you the truth I heard from God. Abraham did not do this! (John 8:40)


Here's a hint for your edification-- Anthropology - Wikipedia

No.

The word “human” can be traced back to the Latin word “humanus,” which is derived from the Proto-Indo-European root “dhghem-” meaning “earth.” This root is also associated with other words related to the earth, such as “humus” (soil) and “humble” (from humilis, meaning low or close to the ground).

John 3:
[31] He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

John 8:
[23] And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

 

[Ghada]

If they don't first understand biology, they will never understand spirituality. (Jesus- John 3:12)

Unique interpretive translation. I like it. It fits well here.

If someone chooses to suspend normal knowledge of natural biology about a pregnant woman with child, then of course there's no point in arguing spiritual things. Once common sense is set aside, there is no more sense to reason with.

In the end, your point is well made. No man nor woman ought want to have anything to do with some alien superhuman christ, that was never a man on earth.

The dirty little secret of course, is it's just a way of idealizing the life of such a super being,, while having plenty of excuse not to follow him and walk as he walked.

It always comes down to how we live, based upon the gospel we preach.

Bless you brother Ed. (Loved the show as a kid)

 

[Ghada]

Really? He was just a Hu?

This is silliness. It’s not theological. It’s not biological. It’s not spiritual.

It’s just silly.

View attachment 37891


Is an "anthropos" not a human?

But now you are trying to kill me, a man who has told you the truth I heard from God. Abraham did not do this! (John 8:40)


Here's a hint for your edification-- Anthropology - Wikipedia

I like your sense of humor.

All this stuff about 'man vs human', as you say, is an idiotic intellectual smokescreen. We can take it to the bank, that if something we are trying to pass off as 'enlightened' understanding, makes a sensible child look at us cross-eyed, then it's just our own stupid posing for God's brilliance.

That especially includes accompanying it with 'necessary' scholarship to try and make it make sense. And at such times, running to the Greek is just running away from the plain English.

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

 

[Mr E]

No.

The word “human” can be traced back to the Latin word “humanus,” which is derived from the Proto-Indo-European root “dhghem-” meaning “earth.” This root is also associated with other words related to the earth, such as “humus” (soil) and “humble” (from humilis, meaning low or close to the ground).

John 3:
[31] He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

John 8:
[23] And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

Jesus is recorded as calling himself anthropos. The Latin is completely irrelevant.

It's all Greek to me.

 

[Mr E]

I like your sense of humor.

All this stuff about 'man vs human', as you say, is an idiotic intellectual smokescreen. We can take it to the bank, that if something we are trying to pass off as 'enlightened' understanding, makes a sensible child look at us cross-eyed, then it's just our own stupid posing for God's brilliance.

That especially includes accompanying it with 'necessary' scholarship to try and make it make sense. And at such times, running to the Greek is just running away from the plain English.

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

I appealed to the Greek word, because the word was written in Greek. You can refer to the Aramaic if you prefer-- it's still going to be man.... ahem.... as in human.