10 Questions about Eternal Security

[Ritajanice]

Isn't it under both covenants? Just asking since Jesus reminded Nicodemus that he should have known about it from the scriptures.

That was Nicodemus, he wasn’t Born Again...we are , therefore under the New Covenant...don’t take it as what I say gospel...I may well be in error.

This is when hopefully @Behold ...who will know..as he’s a minister...

Online summary.

We are no longer under the Law but under grace (Romans 6:14–15). The Old Covenant has served its purpose, and it has been replaced by “a better covenant” (Hebrews 7:22). “In fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises” (Hebrews 8:6).

We’re in Jesus...we’re not in the old,imo.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Hard Heart is actually one of those terms I wish they would have interpreted differently.
The word hard in Hebrew means to be strong, to strengthen, to be firm.

God told Isaiah to go tell the people. That seeing they may not see and hearing they may not hear. This is how a person hardens Istrengthens) their heart.

I like to use the example of a person who is rebellious, so he argues that 2 + 2 = 5 and not 4. The more the person rebels. The more he actually believes 2 + 2 = 5. And eventually if he will be so hard, he will never believe 2+ 2 = 4 no matter how much proof is given, this persons heart has been hardened to truth

As for a softened heart. I believe it would be a weakened heart. God does this by Showing our true self. How bankrupt we are. How rebellious we are. How loving he is.. if he can weaken our hearts of flesh. He can bring us to this knowledge of truth, and we can repent and be saved

The truth comes to all people. Our reaction is to harden our heart to truth, or our hearts will weaken because of the truth.

I understand your point and appreciate it. However, I'm trying to find the appropriate words to express what God promised to do for Israel in Ezekiel. He states that he will remove their heart of stone and replace it with a heart of flesh, indicating a significant and meaningful transformation in their attitude toward God. This change seems to be a fundamental and existential shift, and when God softens a person's heart, it brings about a profound change. In some cases, this transformation can occur suddenly and dramatically.

The markers that we associate with being a child of God include fearing God, loving God, loving the brethren, seeking the kingdom of God first, loving Jesus, worshipping God, mourning over sin, being poor in spirit, believing the gospel, and other things that I cannot recall at the moment. None of these markers are associated with a hard heart. Many people have experienced a transformation where they go to bed as a hard-hearted sinner and wake up as a child of God. I believe that this transformation is a miracle of God rather than the result of the individual's faith.

 

[Ritajanice]

I understand your point and appreciate it. However, I'm trying to find the appropriate words to express what God promised to do for Israel in Ezekiel. He states that he will remove their heart of stone and replace it with a heart of flesh, indicating a significant and meaningful transformation in their attitude toward God. This change seems to be a fundamental and existential shift, and when God softens a person's heart, it brings about a profound change. In some cases, this transformation can occur suddenly and dramatically.

This is what he does in us doesn’t he?

He grafted us in to the true vine, Jesus.

A Born Again, receives that new heart at the rebirth...the Holy Spirit heart is in our hearts?

The markers that we associate with being a child of God include fearing God, loving God, loving the brethren, seeking the kingdom of God first, loving Jesus, worshipping God, mourning over sin, being poor in spirit, believing the gospel, and other things that I cannot recall at the moment. None of these markers are associated with a hard heart. Many people have experienced a transformation where they go to bed as a hard-hearted sinner and wake up as a child of God. I believe that this transformation is a miracle of God rather than the result of the individual's faith.

A Born Again can only Love God, when he births us, as he loved us first, when he birthed us in the Spirit?

We are in his Kingdom, we see and hear with his eyes and ears...it’s the Holy Spirit who testifies with our spirit all day every day ,that we are his children.

We learn to Honour and obey his will and word, through the Spirit who leads us on the righteous path....we can still stray...but he will never leave our spirit.

My testimony...boy did I learn the hard way, that I can do NOTHING in my own strength....my strength comes from God, via Holy Spirit....that was a very long hard lesson I had to learn.and remind myself every day, that Holy Spirit goes first....

There is nothing good in me/ self...only the Holy Spirit in me....he is “ Alive” in our spirit.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I understand your point and appreciate it. However, I'm trying to find the appropriate words to express what God promised to do for Israel in Ezekiel. He states that he will remove their heart of stone and replace it with a heart of flesh, indicating a significant and meaningful transformation in their attitude toward God. This change seems to be a fundamental and existential shift, and when God softens a person's heart, it brings about a profound change. In some cases, this transformation can occur suddenly and dramatically.

The markers that we associate with being a child of God include fearing God, loving God, loving the brethren, seeking the kingdom of God first, loving Jesus, worshipping God, mourning over sin, being poor in spirit, believing the gospel, and other things that I cannot recall at the moment. None of these markers are associated with a hard heart. Many people have experienced a transformation where they go to bed as a hard-hearted sinner and wake up as a child of God. I believe that this transformation is a miracle of God rather than the result of the individual's faith.

Everyone who has been born of God experiences this transformation.

When they repent and receive Christ,. he will transform them also.

 

[CadyandZoe]

This is what he does in us doesn’t he?

Yes, I believe so.

A Born Again, receives that new heart at the rebirth...the Holy Spirit heart is in our hearts?

Right. Yes.

A Born Again can only Love God, when he births us, as he loved us first, when he birthed us in the Spirit?

Yes, this is especially true when we are required to express our love though action. How we treat others, etc.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Everyone who has been born of God experiences this transformation.

When they repent and receive Christ,. he will transform them also.

So the question is, what comes first? (not that it matters in the long run)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So the question is, what comes first? (not that it matters in the long run)

He who believes....

I hope I understood your question

 

[Taken]

When someone confesses belief in Jesus he / she is a disciple of Jesus, a Christian. It's not difficult. The thief on the cross confessed Jesus and became His disciple.

And….so?
What does that have to do with my post you responded to about searching the Scriptures to verify what you hear?

 

[CadyandZoe]

He who believes....

I hope I understood your question

I think so. I am cognizant that your statement and statements like it can be taken at least two different ways: 1) descriptive or 2) prescriptive. (for lack of better words.)

Sentence:
He who graduates High School can attend college.

Meant as a Descriptive:
He who graduates High School, (and I know you did) can attend college.

Meant as a Prescriptive:
He who wishes to attend college must graduate high school.

In my clumsy way, I tried to illustrate above two possible meanings of the same sentence. The New Testament contains some passages that are descriptive, while other passages are prescriptive. The context will reveal the intended meaning. And sometimes we confuse one for the other.

Consider the following sentence I took from Romans chapter 10

9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Does Paul intend this as a descriptive sentence or a prescriptive sentence?

Descriptive paraphrase:
If you wish to know who will be saved, then look for an individual who believes in his heart and confesses with his mouth.

Prescriptive paraphrase:
Before you can be saved, you must first believe in your heart and confess with your mouth.

Hopefully, you can see the difference. I can hear it both ways. I formerly used to hear it as a prescriptive sentence, but now I hear it as a descriptive statement.

I'm open to discussion on the issue.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Sounds like we ought to all go out and get drunk!

It's cool to sin and we're still saved as we sin all we want... right?

You said this, I didn't. when I said we can sin, I mean we are still capable of falling short. We do sin, but we do not have a license to sin.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

You said this, I didn't. when I said we can sin, I mean we are still capable of falling short. We do sin, but we do not have a license to sin.

But... IF a Christian wanted to go ahead and live in sin, they are still saved and will still go to Heaven right?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

But... IF a Christian wanted to go ahead and live in sin, they are still saved and will still go to Heaven right? View attachment 38075

John said they cannot live in sin

what part of can not do you find so hard to understand

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

It depends on if YOU believe the promises of God!

OK, so when Jesus said in John 3:3 unless one gets born again they cannot enter the Kingdom of God... Jesus was not telling the truth then right?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

John said they cannot live in sin

So what if they do live in sin... they are still saved and will still go to Heaven right?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So what if they do live in sin... they are still saved and will still go to Heaven right? View attachment 38077

If they do live in sin, John said they have never seen or Known God.

So he owuld have never been a child of God. Who can not live in sin,

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

If they do live in sin, John said they have never seen or Known God.

So he owuld have never been a child of God. Who can not live in sin,

Well then that means most of those following OSAS have never been saved to begin with!

You've sinned at some point after getting saved... so I guess this means you too have never really been saved.

 

[mailmandan]

Well then that means most of those following OSAS have never been saved to begin with!

You've sinned at some point after getting saved... so I guess this means you too have never really been saved.

Oh how you love straw man arguments. As long as they culminate in slandering folks in the OSAS camp.

The Amplified version may help you to understand better. 1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, because God’s seed [His principle of life, the essence of His righteous character] remains [permanently] in him [who is born again—who is reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose]; and he [who is born again] cannot habitually [live a life characterized by] sin, because he is born of God and longs to please Him.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well then that means most of those following OSAS have never been saved to begin with!

You've sinned at some point after getting saved... so I guess this means you too have never really been saved.

lol. Just because I claim to be saved means nothing.

Anyway, Living in sin is not the same as committing a sin.. don't get off context there.

 

[Webers_Home]

~
● 1John 3:9 . . No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed
abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

That verse only applies to someone who for real is God's paternal descendant.

The thing is: born-again Christians are not related to God like that. They are
His descendants via the process of adoption. (Gal 4:5, Eph 1:5)

In point of fact, born-again Christians are described as God's handiwork
rather than His offspring.

2Cor 5:17
Eph 2:10
Eph 4:24
Col 3:9-10

God has only one child qualified to claim himself God's paternal descendant.

John 1:14
John 1:18
John 3:16
John 3:18
1John 4:9

Were born-again Christians to be God's paternal descendants, they would be
divine beings because like gives birth to like, i.e. were God to reproduce, He
would produce Gods, viz: duplicates of Himself like as when humans
reproduce duplicates of themselves.

NOTE: I read in a Watchtower Society publication back in the late 1960s that
Jesus could've failed; he could've sinned. Well according to 1John 3:9, the
Jehovah's Witnesses are very mistaken; and that's likely because their concept
of Jesus' origin is extremely faulty.
_

 

[Taken]

Oh how you love straw man arguments. As long as you get to slander folks in the OSAS camp.

The Amplified version may help you to understand better. 1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, because God’s seed [His principle of life, the essence of His righteous character] remains [permanently] in him [who is born again—who is reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose]; and he [who is born again] cannot habitually [live a life characterized by] sin, because he is born of God and longs to please Him.

First of all @Big Boy Johnson (like many others) do NOT understand what SIN IS.

OT, ISRAEL men were UNDER a LAW.
The LAW had many inclusions of mens negative behaviors (precepts) toward other men and personal behaviors that were CALLED sins.
(From not paying debts, to mixing fabrics, to sexual relations outside of marriage, taking an others property without permission, improper sin offerings and on and on)

The LAW was NOT “abolished”. The Law was “fulfilled”, IN Christ Jesus.
ANY man of Israel, has FREEWILL to continue UNDER the Law, or not.

Gentiles were never UNDER the Law, thus LAWS that were a SIN unto them, DID NOT, DOES NOT APPLY to Gentiles.

So what is an ISRAELITES SIN who is under the Law?
Any infraction under the Law, the Law called a Sin….and the SAME as a Gentiles SIN…

So WHAT is a Gentiles “SIN”? Unbelief in God and the One He Sent.

When any man Israel or Gentile…elects to Believe IN God and the One He Sent….
They are called IN Belief of the Lord God.
They are called DOING the WORKS of God…
Which is simply BELIEVING in the Lord God.

When any man Israel or Gentile…elects to CONFESS his Belief, and his Confession is from the True thoughts in his (HEART /natural spirit ie natural truth)….
They are called DOING a SERVICE unto God.
IT IS THEY, who receive the GIFTS of Gods Salvation, right then.

The works God does within that man are clearly reveals IN Scripture.
Bottom Line, Gods Spirit enters that mans new spirit and becomes that mans ULTIMATE…protector that NOTHING can draw that man back INTO the SIN of Unbelief AGAINST God…thus (1 John 3: 9 that man can NEVER SIN Again), as well Gods Spirit becomes the mans direct 24-7 “food” source, of feeding that man Gods TRUTHS, ways, understandings.

“Big Boy J” as well as many others are convinced men sin against men, and men (not UNDER Mosaic Law), have the authority to Forgive Sin.

Nothing what so ever in Scripture reveals a Gentile man Forgiving Sin.

The Jews Understood their own LAW of what men could and could not forgive.

Many Jews wanted to KILL Jesus, for TWO main reasons…
* He forgave men of their SIN of having HAD unbelief.
* He claimed He was the Son of God, which meant He was making Himself God, Because God does NOT birth men, and Jesus was sent, and seen in the likeness as a man.

Names and Titles men call themselves (and others), IS NOT the deciding factor IF a man IS or IS not sanctified.
And Once a man IS sanctified, to remotely imply God was fooled and has to REVERSE all His works in making a sanctified man a new creature, is utterly unBiblical and ridiculous on its face.

Glory to God,
Taken