How Evil Are Humans?

[Jack]

Why aren't you there? Wouldn't you enjoy being among antichrists?

I'm not Israel. Neither are you Israel wannabee. You sound like one of these:

Zechariah 14
12 And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.

 

[covenantee]

I'm not Israel. Neither are you Israel wannabee. You sound like one of these:

Zechariah 14
12 And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.

They would welcome a defender of antichrists with open arms.

 

[rwb]

Did you just say that you are "true Israel"?

We've all said the same thing! You are either blind or you refuse to see, which is it? We have all said and renumerated faithful saints without any consideration whatsoever of their ethnic makeup is "the Israel of God" where there is neither Jew nor Gentile but Christians. PERIOD!

 

[Timtofly]

You may think Adam and Eve made an informed choice. However, God tells us he made insured they would eat of that tree.


“The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps” (Proverbs 16:9)

This verse states the opposite of your interpretation.

Adam did plan his way by deliberately disobeying God. It was a deliberate act. Adam did not eat by having faith that he would receive more knowledge. Adam had faith he would die the instant he ate.

Satan made sure death looked tempting and full of promise.

The step was established by God as God planted this tree, and then told Adam not to eat from it. That was God's part. God established a law.

Man plans to obey the law or disobey the law.

If you want to argue there was no law, and we are wrongly inserting our knowledge into the passage, then so are you inserting your understanding wrongly, as lack of knowledge and guilt, because it was God's "fault" and not Adam's responsibility.

 

[Jack]

They would welcome a defender of antichrists with open arms.

I doubt they would welcome Israel wannabees.

 

[Jack]

We've all said the same thing! You are either blind or you refuse to see, which is it? We have all said and renumerated faithful saints without any consideration whatsoever of their ethnic makeup is "the Israel of God" where there is neither Jew nor Gentile but Christians. PERIOD!

Get a map. It's called Israel, the Land of the Bible. You should read the Bible. Israel wannabees are thieves.

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

Okay, but in what way did they know it? There is more than one way to know something.

Let's say a mother warns her son not to touch the stove because it's hot. By doing so, she makes her son aware of the danger associated with the stove. The stove can be dangerous when it's turned on. However, if the son accidentally touches the stove and gets burnt, he will understand the danger in a new way. He will have experienced firsthand what his mother had warned him about.

Adam and Eve had some knowledge of good and evil before they ate the forbidden fruit, but it was only after defying God's command and eating from the tree that they gained a deeper understanding of it. Initially, Adam knew that eating from the tree was wrong because God had forbidden it, and disobeying God is always wrong. However, after eating from the Tree, Adam knew it was wrong through his interaction with God. He learned about good and evil through experience, gaining knowledge through observation and communication with God.

The story of Adam and Eve teaches us that Adam learned about good and evil through observation. However, after eating from the Tree, he and Eve set their own standards of right and wrong instead of following God's standards. This was a significant change from before, when Adam was willing to let God decide what was right and wrong. Hence, the distinction between Adam before and after eating from the Tree is that he chose to establish his own principles to guide his actions and decisions.

Before eating from the tree, Adam already knew the difference between right and wrong. Therefore, his guilt was a natural consequence of his actions. He tried to hide from God in the garden and covered his body with fig leaves as a sign of both guilt and understanding. In this context, covering one's nakedness signifies an awareness of wrongdoing.

They knew right and wrong after eating precisely as God intended. But not before.

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

This verse states the opposite of your interpretation.

Adam did plan his way by deliberately disobeying God. It was a deliberate act. Adam did not eat by having faith that he would receive more knowledge. Adam had faith he would die the instant he ate.

Satan made sure death looked tempting and full of promise.

The step was established by God as God planted this tree, and then told Adam not to eat from it. That was God's part. God established a law.

Man plans to obey the law or disobey the law.

If you want to argue there was no law, and we are wrongly inserting our knowledge into the passage, then so are you inserting your understanding wrongly, as lack of knowledge and guilt, because it was God's "fault" and not Adam's responsibility.

No, I believe God knew exactly what he was saying. And it isn't hard to understand.
We plan but God determines the journey in our life. We can think we made the choice,but that's God,as he says.

God is Sovereign.

 

[covenantee]

We've all said the same thing! You are either blind or you refuse to see, which is it? We have all said and renumerated faithful saints without any consideration whatsoever of their ethnic makeup is "the Israel of God" where there is neither Jew nor Gentile but Christians. PERIOD!

The guy is clearly incapable of any rational discourse.

But high in entertainment value.

 

[rwb]

The guy is clearly incapable of any rational discourse.

But high in entertainment value.

You got that right!

 

[Jack]

The guy is clearly incapable of any rational discourse.

But high in entertainment value.

God bless Israel! You ain't Israel!

 

[Jack]

You got that right!

I know Israel that God FOUGHT in 1967 against those like you. You lost.

 

[Timtofly]

You posted your commentary....what you believe of Adam and Eve....I don’t agree with it...they never knew what die meant....” My Opinion “....

There is no scripture that says Adam and Eve knew what “ DIE” meant....None!!


10
In Genesis 2, God warns Adam not to eat of a certain tree and threatens punishment or consequences if he disobeys:

However there is no hint of death in the creation accounts: it seems to enter the picture only after the act of disobedience. In which case how could Adam have understood the threat, having never seen an example of death..

You do realize that Satan did not know what death is either? Satan was more curious than Adam or Eve. Satan wanted them to die, not because he understood death, but because to him it was testing a theory, and he wanted the result to gain knowledge.

The only one who knew and understood death at that point was the Word, Jesus, who had from God's perspective already physically died on the Cross. God had already provided the means of redemption before creation. God is the beginning and the end.

I disagree that they were innocent, as that would not be understood by them any more than death was. Humans tend to place more definitions and justifications where such things are not even necessary. I am not saying you are. I am just pointing out that doing so only satisfies one's current failed understanding. It is not really an exercise in stating the honest truth.

Claiming they did not know is one thing. Assuming their state of mind is something entirely different. Both of you seem to have a personal opinion based on logic and reason.

What we do see is Satan playing on the terms of the name of the tree itself. I think they did know the name of the tree. It is also interesting that Eve had a form of wisdom at work as well, even if misdirected:

"and a tree to be desired to make one wise,"

That was her state of mind as given in Scripture. And certainly more so after conversation(s) with the serpent. To me though, using the "knowing and learning" point as a bases for any result is still missing the whole point that Adam disobeyed God.

We should at least know that when God tells any one what to do or what not to do when that individual does the opposite that is disobedience even if not explicit in Genesis 2 or 3. Did Adam understand disobedience?

There is a small clue that Adam had talked with Eve about it. It seems plausible that Adam added to God's point about eating, and probably told Eve to just not touch anything about the tree. Did Adam think out of sight, out of mind, no worries? Who knows?

 

[Timtofly]

No, I believe God knew exactly what he was saying. And it isn't hard to understand.
We plan but God determines the journey in our life. We can think we made the choice,but that's God,as he says.

God is Sovereign.

God is sovereign. Yet that is not what you claim. If we cannot make a choice then we cannot disobey God.

You seem to think that disobedience is God's will and plan. That is not what the verse states.

 

[Ritajanice]

You do realize that Satan did not know what death is either? Satan was more curious than Adam or Eve. Satan wanted them to die, not because he understood death, but because to him it was testing a theory, and he wanted the result to gain knowledge.

The only one who knew and understood death at that point was the Word, Jesus, who had from God's perspective already physically died on the Cross. God had already provided the means of redemption before creation. God is the beginning and the end.

I disagree that they were innocent, as that would not be understood by them any more than death was. Humans tend to place more definitions and justifications where such things are not even necessary. I am not saying you are. I am just pointing out that doing so only satisfies one's current failed understanding. It is not really an exercise in stating the honest truth.

Claiming they did not know is one thing. Assuming their state of mind is something entirely different. Both of you seem to have a personal opinion based on logic and reason.

What we do see is Satan playing on the terms of the name of the tree itself. I think they did know the name of the tree. It is also interesting that Eve had a form of wisdom at work as well, even if misdirected:

"and a tree to be desired to make one wise,"

That was her state of mind as given in Scripture. And certainly more so after conversation(s) with the serpent. To me though, using the "knowing and learning" point as a bases for any result is still missing the whole point that Adam disobeyed God.

We should at least know that when God tells any one what to do or what not to do when that individual does the opposite that is disobedience even if not explicit in Genesis 2 or 3. Did Adam understand disobedience?

There is a small clue that Adam had talked with Eve about it. It seems plausible that Adam added to God's point about eating, and probably told Eve to just not touch anything about the tree. Did Adam think out of sight, out of mind, no worries? Who knows?

Thanks for your commentary.....and personal opinion of what “ you” believe their time of events to mean...nothing in scripture....

 

[Ritajanice]

They knew right and wrong after eating precisely as God intended. But not before.

My question is....as soon as they ate that fruit...they knew that they were naked and tried to hide from God...what do you make of that?

Was it because they knew then right from wrong?

I know there is nothing in scripture to support their nakedness, nevertheless it’s an interesting subject to think and talk about....

 

[Ritajanice]

Because consequences are not the result of knowledge. Consequences were the result of disobedience, or obedience. Knowledge is the result of consequences.

How can one have faith and knowledge at the same time? Faith is the result of obedience, not the result of knowing something.

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good report. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

Faith comes from God and YES that is knowledge...Faith that is God given....that is spiritual knowledge that only God can give, Spirit gives birth to spirit.....those without the Spirit of God are none of his...biblical........this topic is about “ How Evil Are Humans?

If you want to discuss Faith...then I suggest you start another thread..

 

[L.A.M.B.]

God is not the author of confusion (1 Cor.14:33 ), rather it is the devil who seeks to distort, corrupt & confuse "what God has said" !

It matters NOT what any individual believes, for IF God has said a thing, then it is truth.( John 17:17 )

Two; the father of lies & his children, seek to cover themselves in the cloak of darkness bc coming to the light shines on their evil deeds & thoughts. To debunk the very words that define God's truth, his character and his will is satan's only ploy in his battle to be supreme.

He did it once, and it worked Gen.3, so he has stuck with this formula when convincing men of the lie " surely ye shall not........" when God has spoken
Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall NOT pass away.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Jeremiah 17:9-11
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

My question is....as soon as they ate that fruit...they knew that they were naked and tried to hide from God...what do you make of that?

Was it because they knew then right from wrong?

I know there is nothing in scripture to support their nakedness, nevertheless it’s an interesting subject to think and talk about....

I think before they were of corporeal substance. Not flesh and bone. After they became conscious of the duality of material reality, they knew shame,etc...because they had a body. And now we're emotional.