The Great Apostasy in the Church.

[Earburner]

That's not biblical.

God has always had the ability to be anything including "flesh"--it's nothing new. He created all things that are made of matter out of nothing simply by speaking them into existence, manifested angels as men, and rose the dead even before Jesus' resurrection.

What you have stated is not what occurred. Jesus gave His "flesh" to the Church, saying "take, eat, this is my body", then did not commit His flesh to the Father, but only His "spirit." And to be clear, He stated that "that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit"--not newly created flesh, but as Paul said, "not that body" at all. And the rest of scripture--the "body returns to the dust (and the spirit to God who gave it)", and all the elements including the dust to which the flesh returns are to be "destroyed with fervent heat and with fire."

Your stated beliefs do not and cannot reconcile with all scripture.

Jesus literally showed us the New Life of His being. Not as a spirit, but that of His Immortal self.
1 Cor. 15
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[ewq1938]

The only reference of "antichrist shall come", is "THAT spirit of antichrist", of which is safe to conclude: "that spirit" is in many.

The verse does not say that. You are adding to it to change it which is a clear sign of false theology. The spirit of Ac is already here and has been. The final antichrist is not here yet but "shall come" as John said. Your beliefs simply do not match what scripture says which is why the eisegesis additions are needed.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

He says "now" there were many antichrists but does specifically speak of one certain antichrist (singular) that was yet to come (future arrival) which means John believed there was a future Antichrist. This is known as "the Antichrist" which is a specific Antichrist (also the last one) among all those who are antichrists.

 

[Timtofly]

Amil doesn't believe in a literal 1000 years at all.
Amil sees the words of "a thousand years", as being an undisclosed amount of time of God's Grace to all people, that began in the day of Jesus' death and resurrection, and is still ongoing.

Is there a difference between "indefinite" and "undisclosed"?

Your wording is horrible. Of course it is disclosed. Revelation 20 clearly states a thousand years. That is a disclosure in every use of the word.

 

[Earburner]

The verse does not say that. You are adding to it to change it which is a clear sign of false theology. The spirit of Ac is already here and has been. The final antichrist is not here yet but "shall come" as John said. Your beliefs simply do not match what scripture says which is why the eisegesis additions are needed.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

He says "now" there were many antichrists but does specifically speak of one certain antichrist (singular) that was yet to come (future arrival) which means John believed there was a future Antichrist. This is known as "the Antichrist" which is a specific Antichrist (also the last one) among all those who are antichrists.

Where is the temple of God, in which God desires to dwell? John 2:21; 2 Cor. 5:7; 1 Cor. 3:16; 2 Cor. 6:16.

Before one accepts Christ as their Savior, every person who remains to be unsaved:
1. Is the natural man.
2. Is that man of sin.
3. Is the son of perdition.
4. Is of that spirit of antichrist.
5. Is sitting in the temple of God, being they themselves (and maybe some unwanted guests). 1-4.

1 Cor. 2
[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

2 Thes. 2
[3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

1 John 2[18] Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

2 Thes.
[4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Q. What is the temple of God?
A. The "earthen vessels" of our bodies.
2 Cor. 4:7; John 14:23; Rev. 3:20.
See also Rom. 8:8-9, and especially John 2:21.

However, each unsaved person, is not the only one "sitting" in the temple of God. Satan by his own will, has easy access, as revealed through Peter talking to Jesus, BEFORE the Holy Spirit was given.

Q. If God the Father, through the Spirit of Christ (God's veil by His Holy Spirit) is not allowed to sit in "the temple of God" (created by God), then WHO WILL,...having easy access??
A. "The strong man".

Mat. 12
[29] Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, (dwelling place, our bodies) and spoil his goods, except he first BIND the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Mark 3
[27] No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first BIND the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

Luke 11
[21] When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
[22] But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and OVERCOME him, he taketh from him all his armourp wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.

 

[ScottA]

Jesus literally showed us the New Life of His being. Not as a spirit, but that of His Immortal self.
1 Cor. 15
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

You can't quote one scripture against another. To do so, is to call God who inspired them both, a liar--it is unforgivable. It just shows that you have not reconciled all scripture and that your interpretation is false.

 

[ewq1938]

Where is the temple of God, in which God desires to dwell?

And here we have the predictable red herring fallacy, otherwise known as changing the topic to avoid the actual topic of discussion and evidence posted. Makes it easy to know which side is the correct one.

 

[Earburner]

Is there a difference between "indefinite" and "undisclosed"?

Your wording is horrible. Of course it is disclosed. Revelation 20 clearly states a thousand years. That is a disclosure in every use of the word.

There is nothing wrong with my vocabulary, and my choice of words. The undisclosed period of time for the Age of God's Grace is in the Father's own hands ONLY, whereby NO ONE, including Jesus, knows when HE shall end it. But, we all will know, when we see Jesus coming from heaven in all His Glory.

Since Jesus also does not know the time, he did say in his parables that he would be gone away a long time. You know, maybe a thousand years or 2024 years, just like the 12,000 out of each of the 12 tribes, which is all a figure of speech in symbolism.

God the Father has set no time limit on His Age of Grace, but Satan WILL, by his own deed of issuing the MoB.

 

[Earburner]

You can't quote one scripture against another. To do so, is to call God who inspired them both, a liar--it is unforgivable. It just shows that you have not reconciled all scripture and that your interpretation is false.

Are you saying that when Jesus was resurrected, He was only a Spirit, and not having an Immortal physical body, by which he ate some fish with the disciples?

 

[Earburner]

And here we have the predictable red herring fallacy, otherwise known as changing the topic to avoid the actual topic of discussion and evidence posted. Makes it easy to know which side is the correct one.

Sorry that you are unable to follow along.

Maybe this will help:
Judas Iscarriot was not the ONLY "son of perdition". If then two, or even more, that makes it PLURAL!

 

[ScottA]

Are you saying that when Jesus was resurrected, He was only a Spirit, and not having an Immortal physical body, by which he ate some fish with the disciples?

No...and to even begin to understand you will need to stop using your worldly logic (your own understanding) to rationalize what is written. A renewing of your mind is called for...as it is written.

When Jesus was resurrected--in the twinkling of an eye the dead and the living in Christ included in the grand salvation plan of God, a physical manifestation of an otherwise spiritual event (God is spirit) occurred revealing what was before the world began, of the transition of all that is of God from death to life everlasting...and while it seemed to take three days for Him to rise, and forty more for Him to ascend for the sake of revelation--it was "finished"--not just when Jesus said it, but before the foundation of the world...for everyone involved.

So, no, to answer your question, "He was [not] only a Spirit", nor did He rise with "an immortal physical body", as it would appear and you seem to believe. But rather from the moment that God said, "Let there be light", the light of Christ projected--by the spirit of God, by manifest revelation, everything that was "covered" began to be revealed, and every hidden thing began to be known. Which is to say, that everything written was and is now revealed--not by mortal or immortal bodies or things of matter--but by the light of Christ and the power of God, into the creation of a world that is not the kingdom of God...thus it and all these would be elements and the dust of the body, are destroyed.

And no, don't think of Jesus eating fish with your stomach...both are only revealed images of what was and is written, only now revealed to men.

--If you can receive it (where have you heard that before?).

 

[ewq1938]

Sorry that you are unable to follow along.

Maybe this will help:
Judas Iscarriot was not the ONLY "son of perdition". If then two, or even more, that makes it PLURAL!

That doesn't change the fact that there is a singular, certain antichrist coming. Judas wasn't two men and neither is the AC. You deny the antichrist, and argue that it should be considered the spirit of antichrist and therefore in multiple people and not a person himself. It's pure deception and oddly enough fairly antichrist in nature as the antichrist would love people not to believe in him.

 

[Earburner]

No...and to even begin to understand you will need to stop using your worldly logic (your own understanding) to rationalize what is written. A renewing of your mind is called for...as it is written.

What you hear through me, are the teachings (power) of God's Holy Spirit, with scriptures, and not that of the wisdom of men, aka the many doctrines of denominational Churh-ianity (worldly logic).
1 Cor. 2[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

So then, what you command me to do, according to scripture, has been done!
My mind HAS BEEN renewed  through the teachings by the Holy Spirit of God, and not that of the wisdom of men.

 

[Earburner]

That doesn't change the fact that there is a singular, certain antichrist coming. Judas wasn't two men and neither is the AC.

Look what you have done to oppose yourself, all for the sake of hanging on and defending the false doctrine of Premil.
You said: "Judas wasn't two men and neither is the AC".
That is absolutely correct!! Judas himself wasn't and cannot be two men, but as you legitimately do imply, there is another.
To me 1+1= 2, which is plural. And if plural, then most certainly there are more than two individuals, who are "the son of perdition [destruction]", which brings us to the situation of what is it, that makes one to be a "son of perdition"? Here is the answer:
Rom. 8
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his [aka the son of perdition].
From there, I think that we all can do the math.

 

[ScottA]

What you hear through me, are the teachings (power) of God's Holy Spirit, with scriptures, and not that of the wisdom of men, aka the many doctrines of denominational Churh-ianity (worldly logic).
1 Cor. 2[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

So then, what you command me to do, according to scripture, has been done!
My mind HAS BEEN renewed  through the teachings by the Holy Spirit of God, and not that of the wisdom of men.

And yet what you have stated is not biblical, and does not, nor cannot be reconciled with all scripture.

Matthew 6:23​

But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!​

 

[Earburner]

So, no, to answer your question, "He was [not] only a Spirit", nor did He rise with "an immortal physical body", as it would appear and you seem to believe

So then, Christ does not need an immortal body, but we do??? That doesn't make sense.

Did 1 Cor. 15:50-55 get deleted from the Bible?
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

And what about
Vs.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Edit: Jesus, who was conceived and physically born by his Holy Spirit, became mortal flesh and blood as we are, who then received God the Father's Holy Spirit, upon his baptism.
Since 1 Cor. 15:50 directly applied to Jesus, what was/is his state of being, immediately after his resurrection, upto his ascension?
1. Mortal
2. Spirit
3. Spirit and mortal
4. Immortal
5. Immortal and Spirit.
6. Other

 

[ScottA]

So then, Christ does not need an immortal body, but we do??? That doesn't make sense.

Did 1 Cor. 15:50-55 get deleted from the Bible?
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

And what about
Vs.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

No, nothing has been deleted. But why do you believe or assume the immortal body is physical, when it is written that we must be "born again of the spirit of God?" (Rhetorical) I've given you the answer already, that "that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit", and as Paul also said referring to the physical flesh body, "not that body."

Is it because Christ rose from the dead in a physical body, that you believe what you do? Because there is a reason, but it is not that He rose up in the flesh with a new immortal but physical flesh body--but rather that everything He did when He came into the world was to show/reveal what is otherwise unseen. Even so, that does not make void the fact that the spirit is unseen unless made manifest to men who are otherwise blind to the things of the spirit. In which case, it is I who should be asking you why you have deleted so many passages regarding the spirit?

The point is, what Jesus said of the spirit being unseen is true, and yet the revealing and making manifest of every hidden thing before the judgement is also true--but does not make void what is true of the spirit. This is why John wrote, "Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is." Which is to say or clarify, that in spite of what is made manifest for revelation to the blind--Jesus and the Father (whom is spirit) are One, and so shall we be also.

 

[ewq1938]

Look what you have done to oppose yourself, all for the sake of hanging on and defending the false doctrine of Premil.

Denying the antichrist is the first step towards Apostasy.

 

[ScottA]

Look what you have done to oppose yourself, all for the sake of hanging on and defending the false doctrine of Premil.
You said: "Judas wasn't two men and neither is the AC".
That is absolutely correct!! Judas himself wasn't and cannot be two men, but as you legitimately do imply, there is another.
To me 1+1= 2, which is plural. And if plural, then most certainly there are more than two individuals, who are "the son of perdition [destruction]", which brings us to the situation of what is it, that makes one to be a "son of perdition"? Here is the answer:
Rom. 8
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his [aka the son of perdition].
From there, I think that we all can do the math.

Good!

Here is the multiple (all in one) factor:

1 Corinthians 15:22​

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.​

 

[Earburner]

Good!

Here is the multiple (all in one) factor:

1 Corinthians 15:22​

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.​

YES, for those who are "IN Christ".
NO, for those who are NOT "in Christ".
Rom. 8:8-9.
BTW, your "single factor" lands in "other" of my multiple choice.

 

[Earburner]

Denying the antichrist is the first step towards Apostasy.

Really?? What scares me, is that you are seriously getting off track about what "that spirit of antichrist" is all about.
I am fully engaged in understanding every facet of how it operates in human society, and what it's subtle manifestations are.

Unfortunately, you are only looking for a singular man, and as a result, you are being blindsided to look in only one direction, when in fact it is all around you, through their words of world "peace and safety".

The Premil belief system is half way there in deception, by looking for "a kingdom" to rule the earth for "peace and safety". One slip on the banana peel, to believe that out Savior could appear in a different way, other than "in flaming fire" from heaven, could be the bait they will bite on, taking it all, "hook, line and sinker".

The Global Economic Empire will have come, and the Premil crowd will be wondering what ever happened to "THE Antichrist", of why he didn't show.
Ans. They made too many mistakes and assumptions with Daniel, not knowing that the book of Daniel was for Israel, just as the book of Revelation is for God's born again saints, His invisible church.